Hi all,

I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.

The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan, connected to a thermostat.

At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. The air coming back in is drawn from the garage, through the filter.

Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. I mean, its just being wasted at the moment.

I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could direct the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.

But what I am missing in this master plan? Would the air be damp or smelly or full of insects? Would it make so little difference as to not be worth the effort?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers, Will

Will Cooke used his keyboard to write :
But what I am missing in this master plan? Would the air be damp or smelly
or full of insects? Would it make so little difference as to not be worth
the effort?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

A flame barrier between house and garage is an essential, so I don't
think your pumping air directly from the garage to the house would be
viable. What you could do though, is maybe use something like the
innards of a fridge or freezer to transfer the heat through the wall.
Inside parts mounted in server cabinet, heat radiator which is normally
on back of freezer inside the house.

Another way would be to circulate the servers air through a room sealed
duct with a heat exchanger, then circulate the house air through a
co-mounted duct, so just the heat rather than air would be exchanged
between the two.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Will Cooke wrote:

Hi all,

I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.

The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted
in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan, connected
to a thermostat.

At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is
sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. The air coming back in is
drawn from the garage, through the filter.

Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use
some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. I mean, its just
being wasted at the moment.

I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could direct
the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.

But what I am missing in this master plan? Would the air be damp or
smelly or full of insects? Would it make so little difference as to not
be worth the effort?


I can see two problems - sucking in fumes from the car (and it does not
matter if *you* do not have a car in there now, you might down the line) -
and the second is firebreaks - ie fire could now spread quickly from the
garage to the house.

The firebreak is soluable - I think. The fumes ingress is not, without using
a heat exchanger - but that would be DIY-able and if designed right could
deal with the firebreak problem too.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Another way would be to circulate the servers air through a room sealed
duct with a heat exchanger, then circulate the house air through a
co-mounted duct, so just the heat rather than air would be exchanged
between the two.

I wonder if you could route the incoming cold water main through a spiral in
the sevrer area to raise its temperature? But I suspect the temperature
change would be tiny, and the risk of getting servers wet if there was a
water leak, not useful.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

I'd plump for just pumping the air back in the garage in winter then at
least it will have the chill removed if you should need to spend time in
there for any reason.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Will Cooke wrote:

Hi all,

I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.

The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted
in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan,
connected
to a thermostat.

At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is
sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. The air coming back in is
drawn from the garage, through the filter.

Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use
some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. I mean, its just
being wasted at the moment.

I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could
direct
the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.

But what I am missing in this master plan? Would the air be damp or
smelly or full of insects? Would it make so little difference as to not
be worth the effort?


I can see two problems - sucking in fumes from the car (and it does not
matter if *you* do not have a car in there now, you might down the line) -
and the second is firebreaks - ie fire could now spread quickly from the
garage to the house.

The firebreak is soluable - I think. The fumes ingress is not, without
using
a heat exchanger - but that would be DIY-able and if designed right could
deal with the firebreak problem too.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

On Monday, 15 October 2012 13:21:11 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
I can see two problems - sucking in fumes from the car (and it does not
matter if *you* do not have a car in there now, you might down the line) -
and the second is firebreaks - ie fire could now spread quickly from the
garage to the house.


I should have explained a little more about the "garage". The house was designed such that the garage could be converted in to another usable room if required, and that has already been half done.

What we actually have is half a garage which is used as a store room for old tins of paint, ladders, tools and of course, servers. The other half, the half nearest the centre of the house, has already been converted in to a utility room for the washing machine and associated bits and bobs.

So, fumes won't be a problem from a car parked *in* the garage - a car simply won' fit, and in order to make it fit you'd have to disassemble the server cupboard and utility room anyway.


That does leave the problem of fire though. Tins of paint, white spirit and other flammables are indeed stored in the other bit of the garage.

I expect a ducting firewall would be prohibitively expensive. I also think a heat-exchanger would be too pricey to warrant the expenditure.

Sounds like my idea isn't a go-er.

Cheers, Will

Will Cooke wrote:

I expect a ducting firewall would be prohibitively expensive. I also think a heat-exchanger would be too pricey to warrant the expenditure.

Heat exchanger systems aren't cheap to install.

Sounds like my idea isn't a go-er.

Just another thought. How much power does your server actually consume?
A few hundred watts of low grade heat from it may be enough to prevent
condensation in the garage, but I don't think it will make a significant
difference to the amount of heat your house heating needs to supply.

Where I used to live, I had no insulation on the hot water cylinder,
which was in the airing cupboard in the bathroom, as I used the waste
heat from it to keep the bathroom warm. It saved me having to install a
separate heater for the bathroom. It got me a much worse energy use
rating when I sold the place, but it worked for me.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:09:14 -0700, Will Cooke wrote:
That does leave the problem of fire though. Tins of paint, white spirit
and other flammables are indeed stored in the other bit of the garage.

It wouldn't be considered a problem here - most houses have basements
where things such as tins of paint get stored, and most houses have
ducted forced-air systems for heating, and guess where the furnace gets
put...

I'm not saying it's not a potential issue, just that the risk is
considered so low that most people don't consider it at all.

I don't know how large your large extractor fan is, but the cheapest
solution would surely just be a couple of vents which can be tweaked as
the seasons change - one venting to the outside and one into the house.
Be aware that if you send heat through a long duct and it has chance to
cool down due to losses through the duct walls, what you end up coming
out the far end is a cool breeze - which might not be desirable in the
middle of winter :-)

cheers

Jules

Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:09:14 -0700, Will Cooke wrote:
That does leave the problem of fire though. Tins of paint, white spirit
and other flammables are indeed stored in the other bit of the garage.

It wouldn't be considered a problem here - most houses have basements
where things such as tins of paint get stored, and most houses have
ducted forced-air systems for heating, and guess where the furnace gets
put...

I'm not saying it's not a potential issue, just that the risk is
considered so low that most people don't consider it at all.

I don't know how large your large extractor fan is, but the cheapest
solution would surely just be a couple of vents which can be tweaked as
the seasons change - one venting to the outside and one into the house.
Be aware that if you send heat through a long duct and it has chance to
cool down due to losses through the duct walls, what you end up coming
out the far end is a cool breeze - which might not be desirable in the
middle of winter :-)

cheers

Jules

The OP might be able to deal with that with some sort of intumescent vent in
the duct - ie one that closes off as soon as fire hits it. Sure I've seen
those somewhere.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:49:43 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:09:14 -0700, Will Cooke wrote:
That does leave the problem of fire though. Tins of paint, white
spirit and other flammables are indeed stored in the other bit of the
garage.

It wouldn't be considered a problem here - most houses have basements
where things such as tins of paint get stored, and most houses have
ducted forced-air systems for heating, and guess where the furnace gets
put...

I'm not saying it's not a potential issue, just that the risk is
considered so low that most people don't consider it at all.

The OP might be able to deal with that with some sort of intumescent
vent in the duct - ie one that closes off as soon as fire hits it. Sure
I've seen those somewhere.

True. I wondered about some kind of flap which closes due to gravity, but
is held open by a weak link that will fail in the presence of too much
heat.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be readily available as a
commercial product, but I've not seen - perhaps the issue is that
completely blocking the output on a running system (where the heat source
is a wood or propane furnace[1], say) might cause problems of its own. In
the OP's case though an accidental failure would just result in
overheated servers - which I'd hope would just shut themselves down
nicely rather than cooking.

[1] I think ours is designed to shut itself down if it detects too much
back-pressure, but there are perhaps older ones still in service which
lack such safety features.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:55:14 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

True. I wondered about some kind of flap which closes due to gravity, but
is held open by a weak link that will fail in the presence of too much
heat.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be readily available as a
commercial product,

You can get heat-fusible links that hold oil valves open, but they're
normally mounted right on the front of the furnace casing, above the
burner. Connected to a wire rope, through a pulley that holds up a
weight on the gravity valve. Clever design, been around for ages.

Tim Watts wrote:

The OP might be able to deal with that with some sort of intumescent vent in
the duct - ie one that closes off as soon as fire hits it. Sure I've seen
those somewhere.

Is this sort of thing up to the job?

http://www.ductstore.co.uk/acatalog/Fire_Dampers.html

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:55:14 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

True. I wondered about some kind of flap which closes due to gravity, but
is held open by a weak link that will fail in the presence of too much
heat.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be readily available as a
commercial product,

Sorry for the out of step reply.

Physics building at Imperial has some shutters on the lift doors - at least
in the basement level which are held up by fusible links.

So it is an established idea. Intumescent grill is probably more foolproof
though.


Probably the dogs ********:

http://shop.stormflame.com/intumesce...0225-304-p.asp


Cheaper but looks OK:

http://shop.fireguard.co.uk/intumesc...0mm-3306-p.asp


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Andy Burns wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

The OP might be able to deal with that with some sort of intumescent vent
in the duct - ie one that closes off as soon as fire hits it. Sure I've
seen those somewhere.

Is this sort of thing up to the job?

http://www.ductstore.co.uk/acatalog/Fire_Dampers.html

Probably - but the intumescent grills I posted just now are cheaper.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

On 16/10/2012 20:38, Tim Watts wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:55:14 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

True. I wondered about some kind of flap which closes due to gravity, but
is held open by a weak link that will fail in the presence of too much
heat.

It sounds like the sort of thing that should be readily available as a
commercial product,

Sorry for the out of step reply.

Physics building at Imperial has some shutters on the lift doors - at least
in the basement level which are held up by fusible links.

So it is an established idea. Intumescent grill is probably more foolproof
though.


Probably the dogs ********:

http://shop.stormflame.com/intumesce...0225-304-p.asp


Cheaper but looks OK:

http://shop.fireguard.co.uk/intumesc...0mm-3306-p.asp


An intumescent grill sounds a really bad way of cooking bacon or
toasting bread...

--
Rod

On 16/10/2012 09:49, Tim Watts wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:09:14 -0700, Will Cooke wrote:
That does leave the problem of fire though. Tins of paint, white spirit
and other flammables are indeed stored in the other bit of the garage.

It wouldn't be considered a problem here - most houses have basements
where things such as tins of paint get stored, and most houses have
ducted forced-air systems for heating, and guess where the furnace gets
put...

I'm not saying it's not a potential issue, just that the risk is
considered so low that most people don't consider it at all.

I don't know how large your large extractor fan is, but the cheapest
solution would surely just be a couple of vents which can be tweaked as
the seasons change - one venting to the outside and one into the house.
Be aware that if you send heat through a long duct and it has chance to
cool down due to losses through the duct walls, what you end up coming
out the far end is a cool breeze - which might not be desirable in the
middle of winter :-)

cheers

Jules

The OP might be able to deal with that with some sort of intumescent vent in
the duct - ie one that closes off as soon as fire hits it. Sure I've seen
those somewhere.

In an industrial situation, where a vent is required for safety reasons,
but would be a risk in a fire, we use an actuated damper (only takes a
few watts to keep it open), with spring return and a sensor. Smoke or
heat detection cuts power and the damper closes.

SteveW

John Williamson wrote:
Just another thought. How much power does your server actually consume?
A few hundred watts of low grade heat from it may be enough to prevent
condensation in the garage, but I don't think it will make a significant
difference to the amount of heat your house heating needs to supply.

Depends on the volume. It might turn a room or two from 'chilly' to
'bearable', but it's not going to cook the house. It could bring things
from, say, 13 to 18degC, assuming a well-insulated room.

I've had 100W computers on in badly-heated rooms in the winter, and it
does take the chill off.

Theo

On Oct 15, 11:32*am, Will Cooke wrote:
Hi all,

I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.

The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan, connected to a thermostat.

At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. *The air coming back in is drawn from the garage, through the filter.

Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. *I mean, its just being wasted at the moment.

I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could direct the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.

But what I am missing in this master plan? *Would the air be damp or smelly or full of insects? *Would it make so little difference as to not be worth the effort?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers, Will

Just look at the total wattage of your servers.
Every bit will be turned to hat.

On Oct 18, 7:35*pm, harry wrote:
On Oct 15, 11:32*am, Will Cooke wrote:





Hi all,

I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.

The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan, connected to a thermostat.

At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. *The air coming back in is drawn from the garage, through the filter.

Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. *I mean, its just being wasted at the moment.

I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could direct the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.

But what I am missing in this master plan? *Would the air be damp or smelly or full of insects? *Would it make so little difference as to not be worth the effort?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers, Will

Just look at the total wattage of your servers.
Every bit will be turned to hat.

what of the bytes?

Jim K

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:35:48 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Just look at the total wattage of your servers.
Every bit will be turned to hat.

Fascinator!

On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:32:30 AM UTC+1, Will Cooke wrote:
Hi all,



I built a cupboard in my integral garage to house a few servers.



The door has a large drop in panel filter to remove some dust and mounted in the ceiling of the cupboard is a large in-line extractor fan, connected to a thermostat.



At the moment, when the thermostat switches at 30 deg. C, the hot air is sucked out of the cupboard and blown outside. The air coming back in is drawn from the garage, through the filter.



Now the weather is on the turn I started thinking about if I could use some of that warm air to take the chill of the house. I mean, its just being wasted at the moment.



I expect I would need to fit some kind of diverter valve so I could direct the warm air back outside in the summer, and probably fit a noise baffle.



But what I am missing in this master plan? Would the air be damp or smelly or full of insects? Would it make so little difference as to not be worth the effort?



I'd love to hear your thoughts.



Cheers, Will

Why not build a small airing cupboard beside it and use the heat to air clothes. Save on tumble dryer costs. I have the same thoughts about our boiler room which is integral to the house. All that lost heat.