In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and neutral -
no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the fitting
and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic terminal
block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the earth
terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring regulations
especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any problems if
we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and neutral -
no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.

Yup, common for the time.

I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the fitting
and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic terminal
block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the earth
terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.

The fact that the earth terminal exists on the light fitting suggests
that it might be a class I device (i.e. must be earthed), If this is the
case then it is not suitable for your circuit.

It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring regulations
especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any problems if
we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Part P has no bearing, since changing any fitting "like for like" in any
location is non notifiable.

However fitting a metal clad accessory (e.g. a switch) or lamp fitting
is considered poor practice. Really the circuit ought to be rewired.
However chapter and verse can be found he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...thout_an_Earth


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and neutral -
no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the fitting
and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic terminal
block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the earth
terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring regulations
especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any problems if
we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

There's nothing wrong with it, but you should not use any metal fitting
that needs earthing!

If you really want metal fittings, then you need double insulated ones
(I don't know if they are available or not); or to replace the wiring;
or to add a separate earth wire.

SteveW

On 11/10/2012 23:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and
neutral -
no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic
sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.

Yup, common for the time.

I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the
fitting
and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic terminal
block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the
earth
terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.

The fact that the earth terminal exists on the light fitting suggests
that it might be a class I device (i.e. must be earthed), If this is the
case then it is not suitable for your circuit.

It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations
especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any
problems if
we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Part P has no bearing, since changing any fitting "like for like" in any
location is non notifiable.

It doesn't meet modern regs, obviously, though there's no compulsion to
upgrade every time the regs change. If you rent out, you're legally
responsible for the electrical safety of your tenants; the only way to
cover yourself against liability is to get the property tested, and any
report would flag this and recommend rewiring; either way, without or
without a test you'd be totally screwed if a tenant electrocuted
themselves as a result.

In terms of selling - if a buyer had any electrical report done, this
would get flagged, and expect them to try and use it as a negotiating chip.

However fitting a metal clad accessory (e.g. a switch) or lamp fitting
is considered poor practice. Really the circuit ought to be rewired.

Also, I'd have thought, very poor practice to have solved it as the OP
has done: from the sound of it the new fitting will have new
twin-and-earth cable entering it (with the CPC going nowhere) - which
means that anybody replacing it in future will likely assume that the
circuit is earthed. (And if that was your tenant, electrocuted as a
result, expect a judge to nail you to the wall!)

David

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:17:29 PM UTC+1, Wesley wrote:
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I

discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and neutral -

no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.







The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve

but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.







I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the fitting

and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic terminal

block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the earth

terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.







It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring regulations

especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any problems if

we decided to sell the house or rent it out?


Use either a double insulated metal light fitting (marked [[]] ) or a plastic one, then its as safe as on a modern circuit, though still not regs compliant, and presumably with no RCD. For selling its likely it wouldn't be picked up. For letting it should be sorted out.


NT

In article ,
Wesley wrote:
It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations especially since part P has come into force. Would there
be any problems if we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

It will still be perfectly safe provided you stick to wiring accessories
and fittings that are suitable. Ie, don't require an earth. In practice,
no metal plate switches or light fittings which need an earth - look for
ones with the double insulated symbol if changing from an ordinary pendant
type. If you are really paranoid, use nylon screws to fix the switches to
the backing boxes.

--
*I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/10/2012 08:03, Lobster wrote:
On 11/10/2012 23:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and
neutral -
no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic
sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.

Yup, common for the time.

I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the
fitting
and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic
terminal
block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the
earth
terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.

The fact that the earth terminal exists on the light fitting suggests
that it might be a class I device (i.e. must be earthed), If this is the
case then it is not suitable for your circuit.

It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations
especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any
problems if
we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Part P has no bearing, since changing any fitting "like for like" in any
location is non notifiable.

It doesn't meet modern regs, obviously, though there's no compulsion to
upgrade every time the regs change.

While there is no compulsion to upgrade existing stuff to current regs,
any new work you do should be to current standards. Hence these circuits
are a pain since even something as trivial as moving a light fitting or
adding an extra switch ought to trigger a complete rewire of the circuit.

If you rent out, you're legally
responsible for the electrical safety of your tenants; the only way to
cover yourself against liability is to get the property tested, and any
report would flag this and recommend rewiring; either way, without or
without a test you'd be totally screwed if a tenant electrocuted
themselves as a result.

In terms of selling - if a buyer had any electrical report done, this
would get flagged, and expect them to try and use it as a negotiating chip.

However fitting a metal clad accessory (e.g. a switch) or lamp fitting
is considered poor practice. Really the circuit ought to be rewired.

Also, I'd have thought, very poor practice to have solved it as the OP
has done: from the sound of it the new fitting will have new
twin-and-earth cable entering it (with the CPC going nowhere) - which
means that anybody replacing it in future will likely assume that the
circuit is earthed. (And if that was your tenant, electrocuted as a
result, expect a judge to nail you to the wall!)

Now sure what else he could do in the circumstances... sleeving the CPC
and terminating it in a insulated crimp for example, but not connecting
to the fitting might be an indication that it is decorative. However you
really need one of these:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ice-lights.png


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, October 12, 2012 12:04:39 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/10/2012 08:03, Lobster wrote:

On 11/10/2012 23:18, John Rumm wrote:

On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:

In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I

discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and

neutral -

no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.







The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic

sleeve

but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



Yup, common for the time.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the

fitting

and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic

terminal

block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but the

earth

terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



The fact that the earth terminal exists on the light fitting suggests

that it might be a class I device (i.e. must be earthed), If this is the

case then it is not suitable for your circuit.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring

regulations

especially since part P has come into force. Would there be any

problems if

we decided to sell the house or rent it out?



Part P has no bearing, since changing any fitting "like for like" in any

location is non notifiable.



It doesn't meet modern regs, obviously, though there's no compulsion to

upgrade every time the regs change.



While there is no compulsion to upgrade existing stuff to current regs,

any new work you do should be to current standards. Hence these circuits

are a pain since even something as trivial as moving a light fitting or

adding an extra switch ought to trigger a complete rewire of the circuit.



If you rent out, you're legally

responsible for the electrical safety of your tenants; the only way to

cover yourself against liability is to get the property tested, and any

report would flag this and recommend rewiring; either way, without or

without a test you'd be totally screwed if a tenant electrocuted

themselves as a result.



In terms of selling - if a buyer had any electrical report done, this

would get flagged, and expect them to try and use it as a negotiating chip.



However fitting a metal clad accessory (e.g. a switch) or lamp fitting

is considered poor practice. Really the circuit ought to be rewired.



Also, I'd have thought, very poor practice to have solved it as the OP

has done: from the sound of it the new fitting will have new

twin-and-earth cable entering it (with the CPC going nowhere) - which

means that anybody replacing it in future will likely assume that the

circuit is earthed. (And if that was your tenant, electrocuted as a

result, expect a judge to nail you to the wall!)



Now sure what else he could do in the circumstances... sleeving the CPC

and terminating it in a insulated crimp for example, but not connecting

to the fitting might be an indication that it is decorative. However you

really need one of these:



http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ice-lights.png

Pulling the cpc out might be better if its only a short run, but its not really compliant.


NT

Wesley formulated on Thursday :
The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.

3 strands will be 3/.029. 7 strands (unlikely) will be 7/.029

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Wesley formulated on Thursday :
The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic
sleeve but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of
today.

3 strands will be 3/.029. 7 strands (unlikely) will be 7/.029

Would be some lighting circuit that used 7/029. ;-)

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) explained :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Wesley formulated on Thursday :
The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic
sleeve but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of
today.

3 strands will be 3/.029. 7 strands (unlikely) will be 7/.029

Would be some lighting circuit that used 7/029. ;-)

I agree, which was why I said 'unlikely'.

There was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

--
*I don't have a solution, but I admire your problem. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:17:57 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:

In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I

discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and neutral -

no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid 1960's.







The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve

but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



Yup, common for the time.


My house was like that, but in addition some kind of braided earth wires were run around the place and fixed to the joists with drawing pins occasionally. The stuff ran through the original plaster in places, so it must have been original.

Simon.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

That rings a bell!

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

That rings a bell!

No - that's usually 0.75mm²...

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

After serious thinking Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

That rings a bell!

No - that's usually 0.75mm²...

lol

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
After serious thinking Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

That rings a bell!

No - that's usually 0.75mm²...

lol

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Thanks for all the replies - very informative.

In light of the above, I'm now considering getting some quotes to have the
old 1960's fusebox replaced with a modern consumer unit and having all the
circuits tested in the process. What would be a 'ballpark figure' for this
and are there any likely problems?

Don't knock me down in the rush :-)

On 12/10/2012 16:19, sm_jamieson wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:17:57 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/10/2012 22:17, Wesley wrote:

In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today,
I

discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live
and neutral -

no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid
1960's.







The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey
plastic sleeve

but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of
today.



Yup, common for the time.


My house was like that, but in addition some kind of braided earth
wires were run around the place and fixed to the joists with drawing
pins occasionally. The stuff ran through the original plaster in
places, so it must have been original.

That was common used for socket earthing (where a larger CSA twin cable
would take the L&N in a radial to the sockets) - the earth seemed to
often follow a completely different route.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/10/2012 21:14, Wesley wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
After serious thinking Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?

1/044, IIRC.

That rings a bell!

No - that's usually 0.75mm²...

lol

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Thanks for all the replies - very informative.

In light of the above, I'm now considering getting some quotes to have the
old 1960's fusebox replaced with a modern consumer unit and having all the
circuits tested in the process.

You may find that the sparks is reluctant to replace the fusebox without
also rewiring the lighting circuits, since connecting them to the new CU
would not be compliant with the regs in force now.

What would be a 'ballpark figure' for this

£350 and up - depends on the number of circuits, size of the property
and the general state of the wiring.

and are there any likely problems?

Yup, plenty - in particular item 4 on this list:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ial _pitfalls

You can find there are a bunch of faults in the wiring that don't show
up at the moment, but would come to light when the new CU goes in.

Don't knock me down in the rush :-)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, October 12, 2012 9:14:22 PM UTC+1, Wesley wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message

. uk...

After serious thinking Dave Plowman (News) wrote :

In article ,

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote :

In article ,

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

here was a rarely used smaller size than 3/.029 I think, what was it?



1/044, IIRC.



That rings a bell!



No - that's usually 0.75mm²...



lol



--

Regards,

Harry (M1BYT) (L)

http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk



Thanks for all the replies - very informative.



In light of the above, I'm now considering getting some quotes to have the

old 1960's fusebox replaced with a modern consumer unit and having all the

circuits tested in the process. What would be a 'ballpark figure' for this

and are there any likely problems?



Don't knock me down in the rush :-)

First inspection certs need to be interpreted, trivial matters are sometimes flagged as serious, things that dont need doing are sometimes flagged as needing doing.

2nd reconnecting circuits to the new CU is liable to cause instant RCD tripping, leaving you needing significantly more work, inclduing partial rewiring.

Tread with wariness. Or do your own inspection, its free.


NT

John Rumm wrote:

In light of the above, I'm now considering getting some quotes to have the
old 1960's fusebox replaced with a modern consumer unit and having all the
circuits tested in the process.

You may find that the sparks is reluctant to replace the fusebox without
also rewiring the lighting circuits, since connecting them to the new CU
would not be compliant with the regs in force now.

Yes, not fully compliant, unless the fittings on the circuit are Class 2
(plastic/fully insulated). I'd have no problem replacing the fuse box
with a RCD protected CU, along with no CPC/earth to the lights.

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user...ustry/best_pra
ctice/BPG1v2_web.pdf

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"Wesley" wrote in message
...
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and
neutral - no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid
1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the
fitting and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic
terminal block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but
the earth terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations especially since part P has come into force. Would there be
any problems if we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Re-examine the conductors of your lighting circuit carefully in x-section.
Reason being is the middle / late 60's was just when copper clad aluminium
stranded cable was used for afew years. I know, I had a large house in it
which required rewiring throughout.

The lack of an CPC wasnt so much of an issue with the lighting ciruits, but
we couldnt get a pass on the earth loop impedance test and thus no
certificate for the purposes of renting it out.

Tim..

"Wesley" wrote in message
...
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and
neutral - no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid
1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic sleeve
but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of today.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the
fitting and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic
terminal block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting but
the earth terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations especially since part P has come into force. Would there be
any problems if we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Re-examine the conductors of your lighting circuit carefully in x-section.
Reason being is the middle / late 60's was just when copper clad aluminium
stranded cable was used for afew years. I know, I had a large house in it
which required rewiring throughout.

The lack of an CPC wasnt so much of an issue with the lighting ciruits, but
we couldnt get a pass on the earth loop impedance test and thus no
certificate for the purposes of renting it out.

Tim..

"Tim.." wrote in message
...

"Wesley" wrote in message
...
In the process of renewing a light fitting in our kitchen today, I
discovered that our lighting cables have only two wires - live and
neutral - no earth! This is probably the original wiring from the mid
1960's.



The cables are individually coated in plastic within a grey plastic
sleeve but are multistrand and not the single strand copper wire of
today.



I had a hell of a job trying to fit these multistrand wires into the
fitting and gave up in the end. I solved the problem by using a plastic
terminal block and running modern cable from this to the light fitting
but the earth terminal in the fitting is not connected to anything.



It works but I am wondering how this fits in with modern wiring
regulations especially since part P has come into force. Would there be
any problems if we decided to sell the house or rent it out?

Re-examine the conductors of your lighting circuit carefully in x-section.
Reason being is the middle / late 60's was just when copper clad aluminium
stranded cable was used for afew years. I know, I had a large house in it
which required rewiring throughout.

The lack of an CPC wasnt so much of an issue with the lighting ciruits,
but we couldnt get a pass on the earth loop impedance test and thus no
certificate for the purposes of renting it out.

Tim..


How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the
wires copper coloured on the outside? The wires in my cables are
silver/grey in colour.

On 13/10/2012 19:04, Wesley wrote:

How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the
wires copper coloured on the outside?

Copper clad aluminium would have a copper coloured surface with a silver
coloured core visible at the cut end.

The wires in my cables are silver/grey in colour.

It was normal for cables in that era to be tinned copper, almost
certainly what you have.

--
Mike Clarke

In article ,
Wesley wrote:
How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the
wires copper coloured on the outside? The wires in my cables are
silver/grey in colour.

Measure a strand. The copper will be 0.029" diameter. Dunno about the ally
stuff - I've never seen it.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Wesley wrote:
How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the
wires copper coloured on the outside? The wires in my cables are
silver/grey in colour.

Measure a strand. The copper will be 0.029" diameter. Dunno about the ally
stuff - I've never seen it.

I cant recall ever seeing copper plated on to Al. either.

Most flex is copper cored tin or lead/tin plated.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Wesley wrote:
How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the
wires copper coloured on the outside? The wires in my cables are
silver/grey in colour.

Measure a strand. The copper will be 0.029" diameter. Dunno about the
ally
stuff - I've never seen it.

I cant recall ever seeing copper plated on to Al. either.

Our 1972 house had the rings in AlCu cable, with the lighting in a mixture
of 3/029 and 1mm copper - all copper coloured - no tinning on any of it.

The power cable looked like 7.029, but was about half as big again as usual
imperial cable. For
it's size, the cable felt unusually flexible - the unwelcome first clue as
to what I had.

If you cut the end of the cores and use a glass you can see the Al core,
with a thin skin of copper.

In it's 40 year installation there appeared to be no real problems - no
loosening of screw joints and overheating, which is what I feared. The
copper coat appears to solve most of the pure Al cable problems. The PVC was
in perfect condition - encouraging for the future.

The size is a problem though - two cores will go into a 13A socket
receptacle OK,
but three (for spurs) is a problem, and I did find some quite nasty
examples, with uninsulated bits hanging out, and poor connections. The cable
CPC was a single wire, around the size of 1.5mm metric, and this was a
problem too, with lots of connections tending to break off from
metal fatigue when disturbed.

The one good thing about it was that it had been installed in decent sized
oval conduit, and I was able to replace it with physically smaller 2.5mm T&E
with ease.

Charles F

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:12:58 PM UTC+1, Charles Fearnley wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message

...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

Wesley wrote:

How can I tell if I have copper clad aluminium stranded cable? Are the

wires copper coloured on the outside? The wires in my cables are

silver/grey in colour.



Measure a strand. The copper will be 0.029" diameter. Dunno about the

ally

stuff - I've never seen it.



I cant recall ever seeing copper plated on to Al. either.



Our 1972 house had the rings in AlCu cable, with the lighting in a mixture

of 3/029 and 1mm copper - all copper coloured - no tinning on any of it.



The power cable looked like 7.029, but was about half as big again as usual

imperial cable. For

it's size, the cable felt unusually flexible - the unwelcome first clue as

to what I had.



If you cut the end of the cores and use a glass you can see the Al core,

with a thin skin of copper.



In it's 40 year installation there appeared to be no real problems - no

loosening of screw joints and overheating, which is what I feared. The

copper coat appears to solve most of the pure Al cable problems. The PVC was

in perfect condition - encouraging for the future.



The size is a problem though - two cores will go into a 13A socket

receptacle OK,

but three (for spurs) is a problem, and I did find some quite nasty

examples, with uninsulated bits hanging out, and poor connections. The cable

CPC was a single wire, around the size of 1.5mm metric, and this was a

problem too, with lots of connections tending to break off from

metal fatigue when disturbed.



The one good thing about it was that it had been installed in decent sized

oval conduit, and I was able to replace it with physically smaller 2.5mm T&E

with ease.



Charles F

The copper coat fixes the surface oxidation, but not the tendency to creep. Cracking still happens, but with less dire results. So not a great idea really.


NT