I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

mark

mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark







--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark


As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:06:51 +0100, mark wrote:

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water ...

oinkflapoinkflap it might for a a week or three mid summer if the
sun is out and you don't have more than 1 bath/day.

... and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

MHI? Presumably you mean RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive). That has just
gone into consultation (again) closes in Dec, announcement early 2013
should be in place summer 2013. The consultation document mentions
17.3p/kWhr for Solar Thermal for 7 years.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

It's not a licence to steal money from everyone else like your FIT
payments are.

--
Cheers
Dave.

mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark


As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!


come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will
be taken out and short.

So take a longer term view on that 'benefit'



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Oct 3, 7:06*pm, "mark" wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. *A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my *hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT..

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

mark

You can just turn your immersion heater on when sufficient power is
being generated by your PV system as you get paid for the electricity
whether you use it or not.

However, you can make a profit from the Renewable Heat Incentive which
is to come in next year. The installation is to be subsidised and you
get regular payments there after.
Solar thermal panels are to be in the scheme. Dunno any numbers (£)
yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive

So it may well be worth it from that point of view alone

On 03/10/2012 19:06, mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

mark





I think we should ban thermodynamics. All three of them.

--
Rod

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 11:48:34 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

However, you can make a profit from the Renewable Heat Incentive which
is to come in next year. The installation is to be subsidised ...

Not so sure about that. The RHI is a payment for heat produced only. You
have to tick all the "Green Deal" insulation requirements, the Green Deal
will provide the upfront costs but you pay it back with with a levy on
your electricity bill. There might be money from ECO(*) to help with the
capital costs. Not sure if the RHPP is still available.

... and you get regular payments there after. Solar thermal panels are
to be in the scheme. Dunno any numbers (£) yet.

Suggest you go and get the 116 page consultation document from the DECC
website. The numbers aren't fixed yet but solar thermal looks to be
getting 17.3p/kWhr over 7 years. How they are going to determine how much
heat a solar thermal system produces isn't clear, at least not obviously
clear but I got bored with 116 pages... They aren't keen on metering even
for pellet boilers and heat pumps.

My MCS certificate has a "Estimated Annual Generation (kWh)" field so I
guess they'll just take that and multiply by the p/kWhr. If so my 30 tube
solar thermal array will bring in a whopping £194.28/year. I reckon it's
saved about £100 of oil at 60p/l. So over the 7 years that RHI is
expected to run about £2000, about the installation cost so no great
money making scheme like the FIT.

(*) The 116 pages got the better of me again and as I already have a
qualifying system wasn't that interested in getting help with the capital
costs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to
FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark


As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!
come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will be
taken out and short.


Why?

mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to
FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark

As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!
come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will be
taken out and short.


Why?


for extortion


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:06:51 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics,

Thermodynamics is good, generally.
There's a law or three about it, of course.

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:47:09 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will be
taken out and short.


Why?

It's Dwarfism, that's what that is!

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon writes:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:06:51 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics,

Thermodynamics is good, generally.
There's a law or three about it, of course.

Que Flanders and Swan...

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Pun..
No doubt soon to be taken over by Entrope...
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"mark" wrote in message
o.uk...

I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

mark

On 03/10/2012 19:06, mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

As an investment it only works if there is some ongoing payment to make
it viable. Hot water production alone is not worth much per year at
current prices.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2012 20:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:

My MCS certificate has a "Estimated Annual Generation (kWh)" field so I
guess they'll just take that and multiply by the p/kWhr. If so my 30 tube
solar thermal array will bring in a whopping £194.28/year. I reckon it's
saved about £100 of oil at 60p/l. So over the 7 years that RHI is
expected to run about £2000, about the installation cost so no great
money making scheme like the FIT.

Which if they get it right, is how it should be. I.e. provide schemes
that allow for easy finance on projects that will ultimately be self
supporting.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Oct 3, 8:43*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 11:48:34 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
However, you can make a profit from the Renewable Heat Incentive which
is to come in next year. The installation is to be subsidised ...

Not so sure about that. The RHI is a payment for heat produced only. You
have to tick all the "Green Deal" insulation requirements, the Green Deal
will provide the upfront costs but you pay it back with with a levy on
your electricity bill. There might be money from ECO(*) to help with the
capital costs. Not sure if the RHPP is still available.

... and you get regular payments there after. Solar thermal panels are
to be in the scheme. *Dunno any numbers (£) yet.

Suggest you go and get the 116 page consultation document from the DECC
website. The numbers aren't fixed yet but solar thermal looks to be
getting 17.3p/kWhr over 7 years. How they are going to determine how much
heat a solar thermal system produces isn't clear, at least not obviously
clear but I got bored with 116 pages... They aren't keen on metering even
for pellet boilers and heat pumps.

My MCS certificate has a "Estimated Annual Generation (kWh)" field so I
guess they'll just take that and multiply by the p/kWhr. If so my 30 tube
solar thermal array will bring in a whopping £194.28/year. I reckon it's
saved about £100 of oil at 60p/l. So over the 7 years that RHI is
expected to run about £2000, about the installation cost so no great
money making scheme like the FIT.

(*) The 116 pages got the better of me again and as I already have a
qualifying system wasn't that interested in getting help with the capital
costs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

If you sign up for Green Deal you don't have to pay up front, it is
deducted from your future electricity bills. (Like an HP
arrangement.)

But you don't get the income as with the RHI, you can't have both.
It's one or the other.

On Oct 3, 8:46*pm, "mark" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in ...









mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. *A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it will
produce all my *hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to
FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark

As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!
come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will be
taken out and short.

Why?

Because he's a miserable, envious old fart with his head up his arse.
With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Oct 3, 8:46 pm, "mark" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in
...









mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it
will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to
FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark

As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!
come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will
be
taken out and short.

Why?

Because he's a miserable, envious old fart with his head up his arse.
With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

I got the envy bit. What my leaflet describes is something different to
solar thermal, it has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

mark

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:16:56 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

No. The £300 for solar panel instalation is the RHPP (Renewable Heat
Premium Payment) Phase 1 or Phase 2, I think Phase 2 is still active.
Phase 1 closed at the end of March 2012. As I understand it RHPP will
stop when RHI starts (or before if the pot of money runs out...).

RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive) might (it is still only at
ideas/consultation stage) pay qualifying systems a tarrif per kWhr
produced (probably deemed to be produced for solar thermal) for seven
years, maybe.

Green Deal provides for the installation of insulation and other thermal
improvements to homes. Paid for by a levy on the electricty bill.

To qualify for RHI payments the home must have all the Green Deal (aka
insulation) boxes ticked and have a valid MCS certificate. Currently
there doesn't seem much, if anything, to help with the initial capital
required to install a system that will qualify for RHI/RHPP. The Energy
Company Obligation (ECO) (replaces CERT and CESP programmes) might be
able to assist for the poorest or "difficult" buildings (ie solid walls
etc).

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Oct 4, 7:06*pm, "mark" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On Oct 3, 8:46 pm, "mark" wrote:









"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in
...

mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it
will
produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is comparable to
FIT.

Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark

As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!
come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will
be
taken out and short.

Why?

Because he's a miserable, envious old fart with his head up his arse.
With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

I got the envy bit. What my leaflet describes is something different to
solar thermal, it has panels *and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg..

mark

Ah. It must be heat pumps. Air or ground source. But they too are on
the RHI thing.
The details haven't been sorted out but the ground source heat pumps
are definitely in the scheme and the air source ones might be last
time I looked.

"Bio-mass boilers" are also in the scheme.

On Oct 4, 11:58*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:16:56 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

No. The £300 for solar panel instalation is the RHPP (Renewable Heat
Premium Payment) Phase 1 or Phase 2, I think Phase 2 is still active.
Phase 1 closed at the end of March 2012. As I understand it RHPP will
stop when RHI starts (or before if the pot of money runs out...).

RHI (Renewable Heat Incentive) might (it is still only at
ideas/consultation stage) pay qualifying systems a tarrif per kWhr
produced (probably deemed to be produced for solar thermal) for seven
years, maybe.

Green Deal provides for the installation of insulation and other thermal
improvements to homes. Paid for by a levy on the electricty bill.

To qualify for RHI payments the home must have all the Green Deal (aka
insulation) boxes ticked and have a valid MCS certificate. Currently
there doesn't seem much, if anything, to help with the initial capital
required to install a system that will qualify for RHI/RHPP. The Energy
Company Obligation (ECO) (replaces CERT and CESP programmes) might be
able to assist for the poorest or "difficult" buildings (ie solid walls
etc).

--
Cheers
Dave.

As you say for the RHI you have to fund it yourself.
The Green Deal was for the poor people with no money. There is no
"income" attached to that scheme.
As long as the house is up to insulation standard you can go for other
RHI schemes regardless if it was Green Deal or not.
I have a sales rep coming round next week so I'll post anything I find
out.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".


Here it is:
http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

On 05/10/2012 11:58, mark wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".


Here it is:
http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Looks and smells like snake oil. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Something along the lines of an air source heat pump combined with a
solar panel by the looks of it. Be interesting to see the graph of power
output as a function of insolation and air temperature.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Oct 5, 11:58*am, "mark" wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

ll.co.uk...

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels *and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".

Here it is:http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Air/solar source heat pump with electric backup/top-up.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
mark wrote:
I have solar panels and get the FIT. A good little earner so far.

Solar panel company has sent me info promoting thermodynamics, it
will produce all my hot water and comes with MHI which is
comparable to FIT. Is this a good thing to invest in, any views?

depends on how much of a cnut you are.

mark


As big as needs be if it's to my benefit!


come the revolution, all people with solar panels on their rooves will
be taken out and short

- circuited ?

In message , mark
writes
Why?

Because he's a miserable, envious old fart with his head up his arse.
With the RHI you get £300 subsidy for the installation of solar
thermal panels plus further payments for seven years.

I got the envy bit. What my leaflet describes is something different to
solar thermal, it has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

You'd get more energy burning the faeries at the bottom of your garden

Prolly won't get you a grant, but it might get you put on the sex
offenders register


--
geoff

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 05/10/2012 11:58, mark wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".


Here it is:
http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Looks and smells like snake oil. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Something along the lines of an air source heat pump combined with a
solar panel by the looks of it. Be interesting to see the graph of
power output as a function of insolation and air temperature.

How many kW does the "control " electronics take?

--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On Oct 5, 11:58*am, "mark" wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

ll.co.uk...

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels *and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".

Here it is:http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Air/solar source heat pump with electric backup/top-up.
Now take several steps back Harry and thing how much "electric
backup/top-up" the system might just need at -26C

--
geoff

On 14/10/2012 15:25, geoff wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 05/10/2012 11:58, mark wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My
curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have
"boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".


Here it is:
http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Looks and smells like snake oil. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Something along the lines of an air source heat pump combined with a
solar panel by the looks of it. Be interesting to see the graph of
power output as a function of insolation and air temperature.

How many kW does the "control " electronics take?

Compared to the power that the compressor takes any control electronics
will consume negligible power 100W at most done badly and perhaps only a
few watts or less in standby. The unit is almost certainly useless but
not for this reason. Pinching the name "Thermodynamics" like this should
ring alarm bells as it is clearly done to confuse the public.

Some fairly clever combined solar PV and water heating panels are on the
market which use waste heat to warm up water. This has the bonus that it
helps keep the PV array cooler and more efficient. The kit is obviously
heavier as a result and I would worry about the additional complexity
but at least it has genuine benefits.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Oct 14, 3:28*pm, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes







On Oct 5, 11:58*am, "mark" wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

hill.co.uk...

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels *and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have "boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".

Here it is:http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Air/solar source heat pump with electric backup/top-up.

Now take several steps back Harry and thing how much "electric
backup/top-up" the system might just need at -26C

--
geoff

So when/how often do we have/had -26C air temps in the UK?

On Oct 15, 8:34*am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 14/10/2012 15:25, geoff wrote:









In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 05/10/2012 11:58, mark wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
whill.co.uk...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:06:28 +0100, mark wrote:

What my leaflet describes is something different to solar thermal, it
has panels *and works 24/7 in all temps above -26 deg.

Scan (photograph) and post somewhere or is there a website? My
curiosity
has been tweaked. It could be air source heat pump but they have
"boxes"
with absorbers and fans rather a "panel".

Here it is:
http://www.prosolarpower.co.uk/free-hot-water

mark

Looks and smells like snake oil. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Something along the lines of an air source heat pump combined with a
solar panel by the looks of it. Be interesting to see the graph of
power output as a function of insolation and air temperature.

How many kW does the "control " electronics take?

Compared to the power that the compressor takes any control electronics
will consume negligible power 100W at most done badly and perhaps only a
few watts or less in standby. The unit is almost certainly useless but
not for this reason. Pinching the name "Thermodynamics" like this should
ring alarm bells as it is clearly done to confuse the public.

Some fairly clever combined solar PV and water heating panels are on the
market which use waste heat to warm up water. This has the bonus that it
helps keep the PV array cooler and more efficient. The kit is obviously
heavier as a result and I would worry about the additional complexity
but at least it has genuine benefits.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

I think it's a air source heat pump but they boost the evaporator
temperature with solar heat.
Dunno how much benefit the solar bit would give.