Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around 10,000
btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A few years
ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined* to
fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter on
the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus can
get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even doing
the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly of
the unit..... COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST time
around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*, so
as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting in
flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser problem.
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of course,
for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for a
traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come into
contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??

--
EA

On Jul 10, 12:25*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around 10,000
btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. *A few years
ago. *Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined* to
fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter on
the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus can
get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even doing
the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly of
the unit..... *COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST time
around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*, so
as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting in
flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser problem..
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of course,
for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for a
traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come into
contact with any coil of the unit. *!!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates?? *

--
EA


How about this:

Next time you have an appliance you want to use in your workshop
which was not specifically designed to be used there (i.e. it has no
integral provisions for REAL filters) perhaps you should examine it
and see where shop air will be drawn through it and modify the
exterior of said appliance to hold DUST FILTERS on it...

Prevention is worth hours and hours of predictable labor tearing
said appliances down to clean and rebuild them when you could
have installed supplemental filtering and not had to even consider
taking the air conditioner apart at all...

~~ Evan

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:26:12 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On Jul 10, 12:25*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around 10,000
btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. *A few years
ago. *Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined* to
fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter on
the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus can
get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even doing
the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly of
the unit..... *COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST time
around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*, so
as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting in
flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser problem.
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of course,
for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for a
traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come into
contact with any coil of the unit. *!!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates?? *

--
EA


How about this:

Next time you have an appliance you want to use in your workshop
which was not specifically designed to be used there (i.e. it has no
integral provisions for REAL filters) perhaps you should examine it
and see where shop air will be drawn through it and modify the
exterior of said appliance to hold DUST FILTERS on it...

Prevention is worth hours and hours of predictable labor tearing
said appliances down to clean and rebuild them when you could
have installed supplemental filtering and not had to even consider
taking the air conditioner apart at all...

~~ Evan


I wonder..do applience designers ever figure out that people have cats
and dogs inside the house?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around 10,000
btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A few years
ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined* to
fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter on
the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus can
get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even doing
the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly of
the unit..... COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST time
around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*, so
as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting in
flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser problem.
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of course,
for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for a
traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come into
contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??


That's different. Never saw one that uses indoor air to cool the
condenser.

"Tony" wrote in message ...

That's different. Never saw one that uses indoor air to cool the
condenser.

That's because he is full of ****.

One never cools a room, one removes the heat from the room. This is not
possible under "his" scenario.

"Litus Arare" fired this volley in news:i1bf05
:

That's because he is full of ****.

One never cools a room, one removes the heat from the room. This is
not
possible under "his" scenario.


Asshole! He's not cooling "the room", he's cooling the workstation.

Have you never even _seen_ such a "personal" A/C? They abound in the
stage performance industry, where they're placed all-about the backstage
areas of outdoor venues to cool crew _selectively_ as they choose to be
cooled by standing in front of the discharge.

You call the guy a liar, and you don't even know what he's talking about.

So; who's the real liar? (or ****ing idiot?)

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
0...
"Litus Arare" fired this volley in news:i1bf05
:

That's because he is full of ****.

One never cools a room, one removes the heat from the room. This is
not
possible under "his" scenario.


Asshole! He's not cooling "the room", he's cooling the workstation.

Which winds up cooling the room somewhat, albeit at a low EER, as the
exhaust IS vented to the outside.


Have you never even _seen_ such a "personal" A/C? They abound in the
stage performance industry, where they're placed all-about the backstage
areas of outdoor venues to cool crew _selectively_ as they choose to be
cooled by standing in front of the discharge.

Heh, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Proly everyone thinks they're
odd-looking Marshall amps, eh?


You call the guy a liar, and you don't even know what he's talking about.

So; who's the real liar? (or ****ing idiot?)

Apparently being an ignerint asshole is not enough for ole Litus -- he'd
rather be a self-righteous, hostile, and chest-thumping ignerint asshole.
--
EA


LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
0...

Asshole! He's not cooling "the room", he's cooling the workstation.

Maybe so...


Have you never even _seen_ such a "personal" A/C? They abound in the
stage performance industry, where they're placed all-about the backstage
areas of outdoor venues to cool crew _selectively_ as they choose to be
cooled by standing in front of the discharge.

Hmmm, telling...right there.


You call the guy a liar, and you don't even know what he's talking about.

That is your presumption, yet your type is that way (hey, my presumption).

So; who's the real liar? (or ****ing idiot?)

Do you comprehend post by sentence, or by paragraph?

"Litus Arare" fired this volley in news:i1djvd
:

Do you comprehend post by sentence, or by paragraph?

It was not I, but you, who failed completely to comprehend his original
post.

So... do YOU comprehend post (sic) by reading it, or do you simply post a
non-sequitor, then wait for vituperous reactions?

Lloyd

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around
10,000 btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A
few years ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined*
to fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter
on the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus
can get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even
doing the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly
of the unit..... COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST
time around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*,
so as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting
in flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser
problem.
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of
course, for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for
a traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air
that cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so
miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come
into contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??


That's different. Never saw one that uses indoor air to cool the
condenser.

It was my impression that this was the norm for portable A/Cs, until the
two-hose jobbies started being produced.

Picture a window A/C, that has vents along the sides (on the portion outside
the window), and the exhaust in the back.

Now imagine moving that A/C further into the room, so that those vents are
on the room side, and only the exhaust is outside. You would then have
effectively duplicated a portable A/C, losing inside air (cooled) going to
the outside through those vents, for the purpose of cooling the condenser
coil.

So you are essentially throwing out already-cooled air.

But, in the context of very high outside ambient temps, mebbe this has some
advantages.

Note, tho, that a portable unit like this Amana proly has an EER of 6, while
high-end mini-splits have EERs in the upper 20s, with others typically in
the high teens.
Min spec for EERs now is, iirc, 13.
--
EA

Existential Angst wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around
10,000 btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A
few years ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined*
to fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter
on the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus
can get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.

It is VERY difficult to clean either of these coils properly, and even
doing the 60-75% job I did was no joke.
To properly clean the condenser coil would require *complete* disassembly
of the unit..... COMPLETE.
Which proly would not be so bad the second time around, but the FIRST
time around appears to be one helluva learning curve.

I seemed to be able to do a so-so job by blowing the fins *tangentially*,
so as not to jam the dirt/dust further into the fin structure.
And blew out the clog in the top drip pan.

All in all, a well-made unit, but with numerous fundamental design flaws,
such as this cleaning business, and clogging condensate holes, resulting
in flooding -- which is what in fact initiated this effort.
They really need to be used in clean, dust-free environments.

Two-hose units would present less of the dirty hot coil/condenser
problem.
But, ultimately, all hot condensers coils seem to be difficult to clean,
it's just that it seems they take longer to get dirty -- except, of
course, for these single-hose units.

But here's the neat thermodynamic part:

A/C efficiency is ultimately limited by the outside air temperature, for
a traditional condenser coil that uses outside air to remove its heat.

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air
that cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so
miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come
into contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??

That's different. Never saw one that uses indoor air to cool the
condenser.

It was my impression that this was the norm for portable A/Cs, until the
two-hose jobbies started being produced.

Picture a window A/C, that has vents along the sides (on the portion outside
the window), and the exhaust in the back.

Now imagine moving that A/C further into the room, so that those vents are
on the room side, and only the exhaust is outside. You would then have
effectively duplicated a portable A/C, losing inside air (cooled) going to
the outside through those vents, for the purpose of cooling the condenser
coil.

So you are essentially throwing out already-cooled air.

But, in the context of very high outside ambient temps, mebbe this has some
advantages.

Note, tho, that a portable unit like this Amana proly has an EER of 6, while
high-end mini-splits have EERs in the upper 20s, with others typically in
the high teens.
Min spec for EERs now is, iirc, 13.

OK, I didn't notice the "portable" in the subject line. That also
explains what you meant about the one or two hoses. I was picturing a
window unit with one or two hoses and ready to ask you WTF? Now I
understand the whole post.

"Tony" wrote in message ...

OK, I didn't notice the "portable" in the subject line. That also
explains what you meant about the one or two hoses. I was picturing a
window unit with one or two hoses and ready to ask you WTF? Now I
understand the whole post.

That's okay, I was worse and focused on his closing thoughts, and concluded that
the post was complete bull****.

"Litus Arare" wrote in message
...

"Tony" wrote in message
...

OK, I didn't notice the "portable" in the subject line. That also
explains what you meant about the one or two hoses. I was picturing a
window unit with one or two hoses and ready to ask you WTF? Now I
understand the whole post.

That's okay, I was worse and focused on his closing thoughts, and
concluded that
the post was complete bull****.

In other words, being an asshole, you decided to throw the baby out with the
bathwater, eh?
And being an apparently scientifically ignerint asshole, you don't realize
that you shouldna thrown out the bathwater, either.
--
EA

However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so
miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come
into contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

OK.

Obviously the exhausted air is replaced by outside air. Ultimately this
air will be cooled to "room temperature" by mixing with the cooled air from
the cooling coil.

One MAJOR loss of efficiency is that the outside air coming is quite humid.
The "condenser" coil doesn't care whether is it cooled by humid or dry air
(at least it doesn't care very much.)
The system makes lemonaide out of lemmons by using the water taken from the
room air to cool (by evaporation) the room air used to cool the "hot side"
of the basic A/C system. Most window units are set up to do this.

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.


I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.


--
EA

On Jul 11, 3:57*am, "John Gilmer" wrote:
However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air that
cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so
miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come
into contact with any coil of the unit. *!!!

OK.

Obviously the exhausted air is replaced by outside air. * Ultimately this
air will be cooled to "room temperature" by mixing with the cooled air from
the cooling coil.

One MAJOR loss of efficiency is that the outside air coming is quite humid.
The "condenser" coil doesn't care whether is it cooled by humid or dry air
(at least it doesn't care very much.)
The system makes lemonaide out of lemmons by using the water taken from the
room air to cool (by evaporation) the room air used to cool the "hot side"
of the basic A/C system. * Most window units are set up to do this.

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.



I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates?? *

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.





--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Any refrigeration system is a "heat pump". If you want to cool a
whole room it's pointless discharging the heat you have pumped back
into the same room. (There's actually more heat because the
compressor motor is cooled by the refrigerant.)
However there are some stupid devices that do just this. They create a
local cold spot in the room. However the room as a whole will be
heated due to the addition to the room of he compressor heat losses.
Only in America could they be so wasteful of energy.

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...



However, with these portable units (single hose), it's the INSIDE air
that cools the condenser coils, which is in part why their EERs are so
miserable.
BUT, it would appear that this miserable EER cannot be made any MORE
miserable by very high outside temps, since those temps no longer come
into contact with any coil of the unit. !!!

OK.

Obviously the exhausted air is replaced by outside air.

Actually, I hadn't thought of this. Indeed, it does create a minor negative
pressure in the room!
AND it's blowing out the room's cold air!
Heh, it just gets worse and worse!
Indeed, it has a third motor to "wick" up the condensate to blow over the
evaporator coils.
--
EA



Ultimately this
air will be cooled to "room temperature" by mixing with the cooled air
from the cooling coil.

One MAJOR loss of efficiency is that the outside air coming is quite
humid. The "condenser" coil doesn't care whether is it cooled by humid or
dry air (at least it doesn't care very much.)
The system makes lemonaide out of lemmons by using the water taken from
the room air to cool (by evaporation) the room air used to cool the "hot
side" of the basic A/C system. Most window units are set up to do this.

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.


I wonder if there are some circumstances where this arrangement could
actually be an *advantage*??
Mebbe in 195 F climates??

One place where this might be useful would be in an apartment situation.
The replacement air would be drawn in from the hallway which is cooled by
another system.


--
EA

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:25:48 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around
10,000 btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A
few years ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are
*destined* to fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter
on the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus
can get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.


I've owned an Amana portable window unit since 1995. Biggest BTU rating
without being 230 volt. I think it's around 14 or 15K. I would say
without any doubt that is one of the very best units on the market at the
time. Have never done anything to it except clean the inside filter which
just pulls out and washes in the sink. It has an energy saver feature
which shuts the entire unit down when thermostat has been satisfied then
turns the fan on low at 5 minute intervals to "sniff" the air to see if
cooling is required, if so compressor starts and the fan returns to
whatever setting you chose.

Your problem isn't the unit its your stupidity in placing it in such a
hostile environment where no window unit would survive long.

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:25:48 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

A'ight, so I got one of those portable ditties, for le shop, around
10,000 btu, single hose, as opposed to the more efficient dual hose. A
few years ago. Now the unit is flooding condensate.

Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are
*destined* to fail in a shop, from dust.
Altho there is a ****ty filter on the cold air coil, there is no filter
on the condenser coil, which uses shop air to exhaust the heat, and thus
can get VERY dirty.
And indeed it was was.


I've owned an Amana portable window unit since 1995. Biggest BTU rating
without being 230 volt. I think it's around 14 or 15K. I would say
without any doubt that is one of the very best units on the market at the
time. Have never done anything to it except clean the inside filter which
just pulls out and washes in the sink. It has an energy saver feature
which shuts the entire unit down when thermostat has been satisfied then
turns the fan on low at 5 minute intervals to "sniff" the air to see if
cooling is required, if so compressor starts and the fan returns to
whatever setting you chose.

Your problem isn't the unit its your stupidity in placing it in such a
hostile environment where no window unit would survive long.

Mebbe you need another drink??
--
EA

On Jul 10, 12:25*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Upon tearing this unit apart, it is clear that these units are *destined* to
fail in a shop, from dust.

Ya think mebbe, just mebbe, that the unit was not designed for use in
a harsh environment such as a shop.