Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

Adam Funk wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

3 storeys with no conversion (there was a loft hatch, which I didn't
look through, in one of the ceilings upstairs).

On 03/09/2012 16:27, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

3 storeys with no conversion (there was a loft hatch, which I didn't
look through, in one of the ceilings upstairs).

That will be why then... ten years ago self closers on all the doors
from habitable rooms onto the main escape route was the norm. The doors
however on the lower two storeys did not need to be fire doors.

These days IIUC, self closers are not required, but all the doors from
habitable rooms that open onto the primary escape route need to be 30
min fire doors.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2012-09-03, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/09/2012 16:27, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

(Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the owners --- just
curious.)

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

3 storeys with no conversion (there was a loft hatch, which I didn't
look through, in one of the ceilings upstairs).

That will be why then... ten years ago self closers on all the doors
from habitable rooms onto the main escape route was the norm. The doors
however on the lower two storeys did not need to be fire doors.

These days IIUC, self closers are not required, but all the doors from
habitable rooms that open onto the primary escape route need to be 30
min fire doors.

OK, so they could *now* replace the doors with 30 min fire doors
*without* self-closers if they wanted to?

Do these requirements apply to houses intended for single-family
owner-occupation, or just rental?

On 04/09/2012 12:08, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-09-03, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/09/2012 16:27, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-09-03, Andy Burns wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

(Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the owners --- just
curious.)

loft conversion, or 3 stories?

3 storeys with no conversion (there was a loft hatch, which I didn't
look through, in one of the ceilings upstairs).

That will be why then... ten years ago self closers on all the doors
from habitable rooms onto the main escape route was the norm. The doors
however on the lower two storeys did not need to be fire doors.

These days IIUC, self closers are not required, but all the doors from
habitable rooms that open onto the primary escape route need to be 30
min fire doors.

OK, so they could *now* replace the doors with 30 min fire doors
*without* self-closers if they wanted to?


I believe so. Unless the door was to an integral or attached garage...

For use in a single family dwelling house I think you only need 20 min
doors. Not sure about multi.

Do these requirements apply to houses intended for single-family
owner-occupation, or just rental?

They do apply to single family occupation, what I don't know is if they
get more stringent for rental or houses of multiple occupation.

More he

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...AD_B_v1_wm.pdf





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sep 3, 3:30*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. *I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). *The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

True. We have a self-catering let on three floors that was recently
converted (5 years ago) and that was the building reg requirement.
Same for our own house. In the let the ground floor door has an
electro-magnetic catch to hold it open that is released by the smoke
detectors if they go off. Imagine what would happen if there was a
fire with fatalities and the owners had been discovered to have
provided door stops. The fire doors were the biggest topic of
discussion when we were inspected to get our final certificate.

Jonathan

Adam Funk wrote:
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

That is correct - and the whole point of a firedoor is to hold-back the
spread of a fire for upto an hour.

The legislation on that has been in for quite some time, and I can recall
having a contract around the late 90s to fit around 150 internal fire doors
and perko springs (excluding the bathrooms and separate toilets) to several
blocks of three storey flats (complete with enhanced doorstops and Georgian
wired glass).

Cash.

"Cash" wrote in
:






Surely a proper well adjusted door closer (not spring and chain) would
reduce the complaints.

On 2012-09-03, DerbyBorn wrote:

Surely a proper well adjusted door closer (not spring and chain) would
reduce the complaints.

How? You'd still have to turn the handle, open the kitchen door, grab
the oven dish with both hands, rush through the door before it closes
on you, knock on the dining room door with your head, wait until
someone gets up & opens it, then serve the food.

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2012-09-03, DerbyBorn wrote:

Surely a proper well adjusted door closer (not spring and chain) would
reduce the complaints.

How? You'd still have to turn the handle, open the kitchen door, grab
the oven dish with both hands, rush through the door before it closes
on you, knock on the dining room door with your head, wait until
someone gets up & opens it, then serve the food.

what's wrong with having two people take the food from the kitchen to the
dining room?

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:56:59 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:


what's wrong with having two people take the food from the kitchen to the
dining room?

Depends on the house; because of the position of the chimney breast my kitchen door opens into what is effectively a narrow passage - there isn't room for somebody to hold the door open without obstructing the passage.

On 2012-09-04, tim..... wrote:


"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2012-09-03, DerbyBorn wrote:

Surely a proper well adjusted door closer (not spring and chain) would
reduce the complaints.

How? You'd still have to turn the handle, open the kitchen door, grab
the oven dish with both hands, rush through the door before it closes
on you, knock on the dining room door with your head, wait until
someone gets up & opens it, then serve the food.

what's wrong with having two people take the food from the kitchen to the
dining room?

That's the other option, of course.

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

Mr Pounder wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.


not sure if this is relevant but a LOT of companies have spring loaded
fire doors that stay open because a magnet sticks to a bit of material
that loses its magnetism at high temps. So they can be left permanently
open unless they get hit: Then they close.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr Pounder wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.


not sure if this is relevant but a LOT of companies have spring loaded
fire doors that stay open because a magnet sticks to a bit of material
that loses its magnetism at high temps. So they can be left permanently
open unless they get hit: Then they close.

more likely the magnet is an electromagnet which loses its power when then
fire alarm goes off. I suspect the High temp ones would be far too late -
the door itself could well be on fire by then.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr Pounder wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?
The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.


not sure if this is relevant but a LOT of companies have spring loaded
fire doors that stay open because a magnet sticks to a bit of material
that loses its magnetism at high temps. So they can be left permanently
open unless they get hit: Then they close.

more likely the magnet is an electromagnet which loses its power when then
fire alarm goes off. I suspect the High temp ones would be far too late -
the door itself could well be on fire by then.

that actually depends on what you use. Curie temps can be tailored quite
exactly


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 03/09/2012 18:47, charles wrote:
In article ,
....
more likely the magnet is an electromagnet which loses its power when then
fire alarm goes off. I suspect the High temp ones would be far too late -
the door itself could well be on fire by then.


I would be more concerned that it was doing nothing to stop the spread
of smoke so long as it stayed open.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:26:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Mr Pounder wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.


not sure if this is relevant but a LOT of companies have spring loaded
fire doors that stay open because a magnet sticks to a bit of material
that loses its magnetism at high temps. So they can be left permanently
open unless they get hit: Then they close.

We have those at work, also some standalone door 'wedges' that release if
they hear a fire alarm.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , Bob Eager
writes
We have those at work, also some standalone door 'wedges' that release if
they hear a fire alarm.

I was working in a building with those recently, they also respond to
the whine of an overloaded battery drill. I kept closing the doors as I
drilled holes in some wood work!!




--
Bill

In article ,
Mr Pounder wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire alarm
sounds.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

charles wrote:
In article ,
Mr Pounder wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10
years old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door).
The visitors' book had several previous comments requesting
doorstops because the self-closing doors were a nuisance,
followed by a comment from the owners to the effect that they
weren't allowed to provide doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire
alarm sounds.


Use plastic ones and wait for them to melt!
--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
Mr Pounder wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10
years old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door).
The visitors' book had several previous comments requesting
doorstops because the self-closing doors were a nuisance,
followed by a comment from the owners to the effect that they
weren't allowed to provide doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire
alarm sounds.


Use plastic ones and wait for them to melt!

I'd rather they closed before that happens

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:51:24 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

charles wrote:
In article ,
Mr Pounder wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10
years old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door).
The visitors' book had several previous comments requesting
doorstops because the self-closing doors were a nuisance,
followed by a comment from the owners to the effect that they
weren't allowed to provide doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire
alarm sounds.


Use plastic ones and wait for them to melt!

On the basis that hydrogen cyanide poisoning is more humane than being
burnt alive?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:25:29 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:51:24 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

charles wrote:
In article ,
Mr Pounder wrote:

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10
years old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door).
The visitors' book had several previous comments requesting
doorstops because the self-closing doors were a nuisance,
followed by a comment from the owners to the effect that they
weren't allowed to provide doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

but you can get "kickdown" door stops which release when the fire
alarm sounds.


Use plastic ones and wait for them to melt!

On the basis that hydrogen cyanide poisoning is more humane than being
burnt alive?


Cyanide poisoning is more treatable that being burnt alive. :-)

Hydroxocobalamin. Up to 5 grams or so.

--
Rod

On 2012-09-03, Mr Pounder wrote:


"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in
Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years
old.

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The owners are quite correct.
A fire door is useless if it is wedged open - usually by a fire
extinguisher.

When you pick up the extinguisher to put out the fire, the door
closes. No problem. ;-)

On Monday, 3 September 2012 15:30:04 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:
Some relatives & I went on holiday in a self-catering townhouse in

Yorkshire earlier this summer. I think the house was about 10 years

old.



All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had

self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the

hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The

visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops

because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment

from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide

doorstops because of fire regulations.



Comments?

They are not allowed to use door wedges or fire extinguishers to hold the fire door open. However, they are allowed to install proper fire door retainers. A simple one for re-fitting is the Dorgard, which is wireless and does not need to be linked to an alarm system.

On Sep 3, 3:30*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

There seems to be no consistent policy (or implementation) over this
and it's the whim of local fire inspectors. Is wired glass essential,
or forbidden? Must perfectly good firedoors be removed and replaced,
for new ones with magic plastic plugs in their edges? Must new
intumescent strips be fitted to non firedoors (an awkward enough job),
despite not even bothering to check that the old strips have fallen
out of some of the old doors?

However you can wedge firedoors open (at a price) if you use magnetic
holdbacks that are self-closing in the event of a fire. I'd check with
your inspector first though.

On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 11:36:04 UTC+1, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sep 3, 3:30*pm, Adam Funk wrote:

from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide

doorstops because of fire regulations.



There seems to be no consistent policy (or implementation) over this

and it's the whim of local fire inspectors. Is wired glass essential,

or forbidden? Must perfectly good firedoors be removed and replaced,

for new ones with magic plastic plugs in their edges? Must new

intumescent strips be fitted to non firedoors (an awkward enough job),

despite not even bothering to check that the old strips have fallen

out of some of the old doors?



However you can wedge firedoors open (at a price) if you use magnetic

holdbacks that are self-closing in the event of a fire. I'd check with

your inspector first though.

Have just got back from staying in a four storey SC house with relatives. All doors had self closers on them, but there were wedges liberally distributed around.

There's nothing in BR which says that the doors cannot have wedges near them once the BR inspector has left; but their fire risk assessment should deal with it, and incoming tenants should be made aware that doors to the escape route must be kept closed at all times. If the temporary tenants then choose to ignore the clear guidelines, then the owners of the property aren't likely to be liable for any consequences.

A proper fire risk assessment might take account of other risks, such as absence of being able to hear distress around the house through closed doors, which might allow wedges to be used during times of high traffic, but require them not to be used at quieter times, or perhaps when the kitchen is being used.

Matt

"larkim" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 11:36:04 UTC+1, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sep 3, 3:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:

from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide

doorstops because of fire regulations.



There seems to be no consistent policy (or implementation) over this

and it's the whim of local fire inspectors. Is wired glass essential,

or forbidden? Must perfectly good firedoors be removed and replaced,

for new ones with magic plastic plugs in their edges? Must new

intumescent strips be fitted to non firedoors (an awkward enough job),

despite not even bothering to check that the old strips have fallen

out of some of the old doors?



However you can wedge firedoors open (at a price) if you use magnetic

holdbacks that are self-closing in the event of a fire. I'd check with

your inspector first though.

Have just got back from staying in a four storey SC house with relatives.
All doors had self closers on them, but there were wedges liberally
distributed around.

There's nothing in BR which says that the doors cannot have wedges near
them once the BR inspector has left; but their fire risk assessment should
deal with it, and incoming tenants should be made aware that doors to the
escape route must be kept closed at all times. If the temporary tenants
then choose to ignore the clear guidelines, then the owners of the
property aren't likely to be liable for any consequences.

A proper fire risk assessment might take account of other risks, such as
absence of being able to hear distress around the house through closed
doors, which might allow wedges to be used during times of high traffic,
but require them not to be used at quieter times, or perhaps when the
kitchen is being used.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Domestic property, even that rented out does not need to be fire risk
assessed unless it is an HMO (and then you wouldn't describe it as SC).

It used to be a BR that all internal room doors (except a bathroom) had to
have self closers on them. But they dropped this reg recently, presumably
because they discovered that 99.9999999% of occupiers found them to be a
pain in the arse and routinely wedged the doors open thus meaning that
having self closers on a door meant that it was more likely to be left open
24/7 than if it didn't. (In my last three rented flats not a single self
closers has been left allowed to work, for instance)

The law of unintended (in this case un-though-out) consequences in operation

tim

On 2012-09-04, tim..... wrote:

Domestic property, even that rented out does not need to be fire risk
assessed unless it is an HMO (and then you wouldn't describe it as SC).

It used to be a BR that all internal room doors (except a bathroom) had to
have self closers on them. But they dropped this reg recently, presumably
because they discovered that 99.9999999% of occupiers found them to be a
pain in the arse and routinely wedged the doors open thus meaning that
having self closers on a door meant that it was more likely to be left open
24/7 than if it didn't. (In my last three rented flats not a single self
closers has been left allowed to work, for instance)

The law of unintended (in this case un-though-out) consequences in operation

In this case, both the kitchen and the living-dining room had
self-closing doors --- you can imagine what a hassle that was for
trying to serve meals. (None of us had previously come across
self-closing doors in a house, as opposed to a hotel, B&B, office,
&c.)

At the risk of getting on Grimly's hit-list, I'll admit that we bought
some cheap doorstops to use during the day (especially around
mealtimes).

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:09:23 +0100, Adam Funk
wrote:

At the risk of getting on Grimly's hit-list, I'll admit that we bought
some cheap doorstops to use during the day (especially around
mealtimes).

Nowt wrong with that - so long as you make sure they're removed at
bedtime or when going out.
The major danger from careless/thoughtless feckers is when they leave
the doors jammed open around the clock.

On Sep 4, 2:24*pm, "tim....." wrote:
Domestic property, even that rented out does not need to be fire risk
assessed unless it is an HMO (and then you wouldn't describe it as SC).

I ran into this though, on a three storey house with a separate
basement flat. It had been (slightly) converted into office space
beforehand, with very ugly firedoors and wired glass partitions added
around the stairwell, because of its depth. BCO was "resistant" to
them being removed.

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Sep 3, 3:30*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.
There seems to be no consistent policy (or implementation) over this
and it's the whim of local fire inspectors. Is wired glass essential,
or forbidden?

Glass in firedoors is wired to try and hold it in place for longer
when it's softening (and possibly cracking) in heat.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:34:10 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Glass in firedoors is wired to try and hold it in place for longer
when it's softening (and possibly cracking) in heat.

However it's also a dreadful trip and fall hazard. It's by far the worst sort of glass to go through. It will break under that load, and the ends of the wires cause really bad injuries, particularly to wrist tendons (and most people go through glass doors wrists first).

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:34:10 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Glass in firedoors is wired to try and hold it in place for longer
when it's softening (and possibly cracking) in heat.
However it's also a dreadful trip and fall hazard. It's by far the worst sort of glass to go through. It will break under that load, and the ends of the wires cause really bad injuries, particularly to wrist tendons (and most people go through glass doors wrists first).

Yep - happened to someone in my year at university.
I don't think the wire did any direct harm, but it held the glass
in place to do horrendous damage when he instictively pulled his
hands back through the holes in the glass, and cut the tendons
in both wrists. He had to drop out for a year, for all the
medical work and healing. I don't know what the end result was,
not even sure if he ever returned to complete his degree.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:27:35 +0100, Adam Funk
wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The moaning whinging *******s would have been glad of the self-closer
if they had been in their rooms when the hotel caught fire.

Honestly, if the human race gets any more stupid it will die out.
Problem is, the stupid survive and go on to breed more stupid people.

On 2012-09-04, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:27:35 +0100, Adam Funk
wrote:

All the internal doors except the ones for the bathrooms had
self-closing gadgets built in (installed in the frame between the
hinges, pulling a chain attached to the hinge side of the door). The
visitors' book had several previous comments requesting doorstops
because the self-closing doors were a nuisance, followed by a comment
from the owners to the effect that they weren't allowed to provide
doorstops because of fire regulations.

Comments?

The moaning whinging *******s would have been glad of the self-closer
if they had been in their rooms when the hotel caught fire.

Honestly, if the human race gets any more stupid it will die out.
Problem is, the stupid survive and go on to breed more stupid people.

I think you're being unduly harsh in this case. It was a
self-catering house, not a hotel, and I expect many people have never
come across self-closing doors in normal houses.

On Sep 4, 8:15*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
I think you're being unduly harsh in this case. *It was a
self-catering house, not a hotel, and I expect many people have never
come across self-closing doors in normal houses.

Most of my doors self-close (one self-opens), because they were hung
on the skew!

On 2012-09-04, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sep 4, 8:15Â*pm, Adam Funk wrote:
I think you're being unduly harsh in this case. Â*It was a
self-catering house, not a hotel, and I expect many people have never
come across self-closing doors in normal houses.

Most of my doors self-close (one self-opens), because they were hung
on the skew!

I'm familiar with that kind too ;-) but they don't usually latch fully
so that you have to turn the handle to get through.