As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Daniele

The point about fire doors is that if you do shut them, they do resist
the passage of fire. If you don't shut them you're more likely to become
aware of the fire in good time to get out.

The situation you want to avoid is where there is a (non-fire-rated)
door which is preventing you from becoming aware of the fire but not
protecting you from the effects of the fire.

In article ,
Dave Osborne writes:
D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Many of my internal doors are alarm zones, so I'm well used to
making sure they're shut in order to set the alarm at night.
It just becomes something you automatically do, certainly if
you're forced to.

The point about fire doors is that if you do shut them, they do resist
the passage of fire. If you don't shut them you're more likely to become
aware of the fire in good time to get out.

The situation you want to avoid is where there is a (non-fire-rated)
door which is preventing you from becoming aware of the fire but not
protecting you from the effects of the fire.

Interlinked smoke detectors.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:

As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Many of my internal doors are alarm zones, so I'm well used to
making sure they're shut in order to set the alarm at night.
It just becomes something you automatically do, certainly if
you're forced to.

Note that Daniele isn't "forced to" close her doors. The building
regulations apply only to the building, not how people use it. I've seen
at least one document from the BR people stating that explicitly.

Pete

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:33:28 +0100, Pete Verdon wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:

As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Many of my internal doors are alarm zones, so I'm well used to
making sure they're shut in order to set the alarm at night.
It just becomes something you automatically do, certainly if
you're forced to.

Note that Daniele isn't "forced to" close her doors. The building
regulations apply only to the building, not how people use it. I've seen
at least one document from the BR people stating that explicitly.

Pete

Daniele? Danielle? There is a difference. It's been pointed out *many*
times!

Well, someone had to say it.....
:-)

--
The Wanderer

Usenet is like a troupe of performing elephants with diarrhoea:
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining perhaps,
but a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect
it.

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:39:08 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The situation you want to avoid is where there is a (non-fire-rated)
door which is preventing you from becoming aware of the fire but not
protecting you from the effects of the fire.

Interlinked smoke detectors.

Internal doors made from lard.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jules
saying something like:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:39:08 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The situation you want to avoid is where there is a (non-fire-rated)
door which is preventing you from becoming aware of the fire but not
protecting you from the effects of the fire.

Interlinked smoke detectors.

Internal doors made from lard.

Genius!

Dave Osborne posted
The point about fire doors is that if you do shut them, they do resist
the passage of fire. If you don't shut them you're more likely to
become aware of the fire in good time to get out.

How? What can they do if they're not shut?


--
Les
Criticising the government is not illegal, but often on investigation turns out
to be linked to serious offences.

Big Les Wade posted
Dave Osborne posted
The point about fire doors is that if you do shut them, they do resist
the passage of fire. If you don't shut them you're more likely to
become aware of the fire in good time to get out.

How? What can they do if they're not shut?

OK don't reply ... I've now sussed what you meant

--
Les
Criticising the government is not illegal, but often on investigation turns out
to be linked to serious offences.

"Dave Osborne" wrote in message
...
D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Daniele

The point about fire doors is that if you do shut them, they do resist the
passage of fire. If you don't shut them you're more likely to become aware
of the fire in good time to get out.

The situation you want to avoid is where there is a (non-fire-rated) door
which is preventing you from becoming aware of the fire but not protecting
you from the effects of the fire.

D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

A good, but expensive idea.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or
even any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much
difference what they're made of.

Not a good idea!

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Go one step further and fit automatic closures to *ALL* the fire doors, or
even properly fitted rising butt hinges will do just as well - but don't
wedge the doors open after when you think such devices are nuisance! ;-)

As a matter of interest, did you 'upgrade' any 'planted' doorstops on the
frames to 1" thickness, and screwed on rather than nailed - and change any
glass panels to Georgian wired?

Cash

"Cash" wrote:

D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

A good, but expensive idea.

To be honest, it was Building Regulation's idea. But given what has been
explained here, it does sound like a good idea.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or
even any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much
difference what they're made of.

Not a good idea!

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Go one step further and fit automatic closures to *ALL* the fire doors, or
even properly fitted rising butt hinges will do just as well - but don't
wedge the doors open after when you think such devices are nuisance! ;-)

I think that will be such a nuisance in practice. Better to get into the
habit of closing doors if necessary, but certainly bedroom doors won;t
be closed at night.

As a matter of interest, did you 'upgrade' any 'planted' doorstops on the
frames to 1" thickness, and screwed on rather than nailed - and change any
glass panels to Georgian wired?

The door frames are to be done when the new doors are installed.

Daniele
--
Wanted: TEAC A-2300SX, Akai GX-4000D

D.M. Procida wrote:
"Cash" wrote:

D.M. Procida wrote:
As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

A good, but expensive idea.

To be honest, it was Building Regulation's idea. But given what has
been explained here, it does sound like a good idea.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or
even any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much
difference what they're made of.

Not a good idea!

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Go one step further and fit automatic closures to *ALL* the fire
doors, or even properly fitted rising butt hinges will do just as
well - but don't wedge the doors open after when you think such
devices are nuisance! ;-)

I think that will be such a nuisance in practice. Better to get into
the habit of closing doors if necessary, but certainly bedroom doors
won;t be closed at night.

Daniele, all joking aside, I have been inolved where there have been fires
in houses where casualties have occured, and if fire-check doors had been
fitted and used properly the occupants would have escaped serious injury -
and I honestly believe that all new-build domestic properties should be
fitted as a matter of course with:

A) Half hour (minimum) rated fire doors (properly fitted and
operational).

B) Properly fitted smoke and heat dectors in *every* room in the property
(that cannot be deliberately disabled).

C) A properly fitted domestic water sprinkler system in *every* room.

D) Properly constructed fire escape routes from each bedroom via the
windows (not the piddly things they use in the UPVc systems of today).

If you are seriously concerned about the affects of a fire - my advice would
be: when (or if) you have fire check doors fitted - then use them as they
should be used.

If you will not do this, then simply don't bother with the expense, as you
would be far better off fitting heat and smoke detectors in every room, and
working out a viable and safe escape route with all the family in the event
of a fire (and just as important, what to do as well) - and if you already
have a monitored burglar alarm fitted, get the company that installed it to
fit the aforesaid detectors and add those to the monitoring system.

As a matter of interest, did you 'upgrade' any 'planted' doorstops
on the frames to 1" thickness, and screwed on rather than nailed -
and change any glass panels to Georgian wired?

The door frames are to be done when the new doors are installed.

Forgive me here, I misread the post and though that you already had them
fitted.


Cash

Climbing down off his soapbox. :-)

Cash
?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?@?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? .?.?.?.?.//.com.invalid
posted

Daniele, all joking aside, I have been inolved where there have been
fires in houses where casualties have occured, and if fire-check doors
had been fitted and used properly the occupants would have escaped
serious injury

How many serious house fires occur every year, how many of these have
fire doors and how many not, and what are the serious casualty figures?

- and I honestly believe that all new-build domestic properties should
be fitted as a matter of course with:

How much extra would this cost?

People involved in safety and rescue services always think that every
possible measure should be taken to avoid risk. In reality there is
always a cost-benefit calculation.

--
Les
Criticising the government is not illegal, but often on investigation turns out
to be linked to serious offences.

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:19:33 +0100, "Cash"
wrote:

I honestly believe that all new-build domestic properties should be
fitted as a matter of course with:

A) Half hour (minimum) rated fire doors (properly fitted and
operational).

B) Properly fitted smoke and heat dectors in *every* room in the property
(that cannot be deliberately disabled).

The problem with the ultimate levels of either security or fire safety
is that they both work against normal living. An alarm system which
goes off every time the toast gets burned or bacon is cooked _is_
going to be disabled. If it doesn't incorporate a method of doing
that temporarily the owners will find a way of doing it permanently.

Similarly self closing doors in a domestic environment will be wedged
open or taken out completely. The alterations to the building
regulations to remove the need for self closing doors was nothing more
than an acceptance of reality.

Its easy to put in fire safety or security "features". It is very
difficult to put in ones which don't annoy the user to the point of
exasperation.

C) A properly fitted domestic water sprinkler system in *every* room.

The fitting of low volume high pressure fog systems (not the more
usual drench ones) is becoming popular in the USA where they have far
more serious domestic fire problems than we have here and is proving
to be quite effective. I'm not sure about every room but kitchen and
sitting room (which together are where about 90% of domestic fires
start) would be useful.

D) Properly constructed fire escape routes from each bedroom via the
windows (not the piddly things they use in the UPVc systems of today).

Escape via windows is pretty useless unless you build in full fire
escapes - effectively external walkways and fixed stairs. In any
event with a smoke stop door on the bedroom and a smoke alarm to wake
people up staying put until the fire service arrive is usually the
safest option.

If you are seriously concerned about the affects of a fire - my advice would
be: when (or if) you have fire check doors fitted - then use them as they
should be used.

If you will not do this, then simply don't bother with the expense, as you
would be far better off fitting heat and smoke detectors in every room,

This really isn't necessary. 90% of all fires will be detected first
by a smoke detector on the ceiling above the stair well. A rate of
rise heat detector in the kitchen can be a useful sensor for of the
ubiquitous chip pan fire but even then the landing sensor will usually
trigger before it. Heat detectors in any other room are unlikely ever
to be effective at providing an alarm in that by the time the
temperature has risen enough to trigger them the products of
combustion will already have started to kill people.

and
working out a viable and safe escape route with all the family in the event
of a fire (and just as important, what to do as well)

Indeed. Don't deadlock your escape doors either. It really can be
very difficult to find where you store the key when its dark, the
lights have failed and there is smoke all around. If you feel you
really must deadlock any external door have the key tied to the
doorknob so it can be got at easily. Don't have it loose on a hook -
its really depressing to drop it in the dark before you can open the
door.

- and if you already
have a monitored burglar alarm fitted, get the company that installed it to
fit the aforesaid detectors and add those to the monitoring system.

If you have all the sensor you wanted fitted and don't want to live
off pre-pack meals warmed on boiling water you might find that after
the 5th or 6th false alarm you will not be too popular.

Peter Parry wrote:

The fitting of low volume high pressure fog systems (not the more
usual drench ones) is becoming popular in the USA where they have far
more serious domestic fire problems than we have here

That's interesting. The higher incidence of fires, not the fog system.
Is there any suggestion of why the Americans have more domestic fires
than the Brits?

Pete

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:06:44 +0100, Peter Parry wrote:
The problem with the ultimate levels of either security or fire safety
is that they both work against normal living. An alarm system which
goes off every time the toast gets burned or bacon is cooked _is_
going to be disabled.

I knew someone who wired up a switch next to his cooker so he could
disable the house smoke alarms temporarily whilst cooking - I never did
work out if that was utter genius or complete stupidity :-)

"Cash" wrote:

I think that will be such a nuisance in practice. Better to get into
the habit of closing doors if necessary, but certainly bedroom doors
won;t be closed at night.

Daniele, all joking aside, I have been inolved where there have been fires
in houses where casualties have occured, and if fire-check doors had been
fitted and used properly the occupants would have escaped serious injury -
and I honestly believe that all new-build domestic properties should be
fitted as a matter of course with:

A) Half hour (minimum) rated fire doors (properly fitted and
operational).

B) Properly fitted smoke and heat dectors in *every* room in the property
(that cannot be deliberately disabled).

C) A properly fitted domestic water sprinkler system in *every* room.

D) Properly constructed fire escape routes from each bedroom via the
windows (not the piddly things they use in the UPVc systems of today).

Without building a completely new style of dwelling, then I don't see
how this last in particular would be possible.

If you are seriously concerned about the affects of a fire - my advice would
be: when (or if) you have fire check doors fitted - then use them as they
should be used.

All of this stuff has to fit into what's also necessary for a
comfortable, healthy convenient life.

Bedroom doors that need to be closed at night don't fit into that, for
most people anyway. Fire escapes all over the outsides of our houses
don't either.

It's also not clear that it's the best way to spend the money. If the
total cost of a certain cost of action - say, fitting out new houses
with sprinklers - is greater than the cost of another course with equal
benefits - say, public awareness of fire prevention - then the latter
seems more sensible.

Daniele

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:28:30 +0000,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:

As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Daniele

Are you stupid ?

Why do you think there fire doors

Stuart

In message ,
writes
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:28:30 +0000,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:

As you may be aware from some of my recent questions, it'll be fire
doors all round chez nous.

It was pointed out to me that we don't now close all the doors, or even
any of them, at night - in which case it doesn't make much difference
what they're made of.

I guess we could get into the habit of closing living room doors at
night, but not bedroom doors.

Daniele

Are you stupid ?

He's only just come down from the trees and stopped top posting, give
him a chance


Why do you think there fire doors

Did you mean "they're" ?



Stuart

--
geoff