The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.

I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.

Do I (a) re-fill the hole with brick that must be shaped to fill the hole, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

A and B are least appealing because of the difficulty of properly filling the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.

TIA

Richard

RJS wrote:
The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.

I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.

Do I (a) re-fill the hole with brick that must be shaped to fill the hole, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

A and B are least appealing because of the difficulty of properly filling the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.


if its internal why not use exapanding foam or scrunched up newspaper,
then bonding plaster and then skim

stick the pattress in the plaster if you want to keep it there.




TIA

Richard


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
RJS writes:
The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.

I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.

Do I (a) re-fill the hole with brick that must be shaped to fill the hole, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.

A and B are least appealing because of the difficulty of properly filling the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.

I would do A or B, depending what I had to hand.
The quality of the pointing doesn't matter in this case, indeed
the rougher, the better key for the plaster.

OTOH, I might have tried to fix the original problem by pushing the
back box into wad of sloppy bonding coat plaster, which will often
stick it to crumbly brickwork much better than a screw will fix one
to solid brickwork, and stick the crumbly wall together. However,
don't use it instead or mortar, not that you've actually pulled the
wall apart.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Monday, August 27, 2012 10:10:06 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


if its internal why not use exapanding foam or scrunched up newspaper,

then bonding plaster and then skim



stick the pattress in the plaster if you want to keep it there.





Yes, it's internal.

What supports the surrounding brickwork and bricks above if I use filler foam?

One of two pattress is being removed. Unfortunately, I have to leave the pattress with the timer-spur which supplies the towel rail in the adjoining bathroom. Fortunately this pattress is set into semi-solid brick and I can live with that as it will not have to suffer removal and insertion of plugs.

R

Hi Andrew

On Monday, August 27, 2012 10:26:26 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


I would do A or B, depending what I had to hand.


Is there any reason why I _mustn't_ do 'c'?


The quality of the pointing doesn't matter in this case, indeed

the rougher, the better key for the plaster.



OTOH, I might have tried to fix the original problem by pushing the

back box into wad of sloppy bonding coat plaster, which will often

stick it to crumbly brickwork much better than a screw will fix one


there's no brickwork to screw to - just a void!


to solid brickwork, and stick the crumbly wall together. However,

don't use it instead or mortar, not that you've actually pulled the

wall apart.



--

Andrew Gabriel

[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


I'm deleting the double socket that was in this pattress because I doubt that I can create a solid structure for the box to fix to - I don't want removal of a plug to pull the socket out of the wall. I can live without the socket in this location. I do, however, have to leave the timer-spur that was fed from the socket

Richard

On Monday, 27 August 2012 20:25:55 UTC+1, RJS wrote:
The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges..



As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.



I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.



Do I (a) re-fill the hole with brick that must be shaped to fill the hole, (b) ditto but with easily shaped lightweight block rather than brick or (c) contrive suitable shuttering and fill the hole with concrete.



A and B are least appealing because of the difficulty of properly filling the crevices with mortar when pointing in the new brick(s) and the difficulty of cutting them to fit. C is most appealing because of its gap filling properties.



TIA



Richard

I have replaced bricks in a cavity wall before. The brickwork forms a 'corbelled' arch if you don't take out too many bricks horizontally at the top. Probably you don't want to take out more than one brick at the top though maybe you could take out the two directly beneath it if they need replacing, but you want to form a fairly tall 'arch' as it were, not a very flat arch.. You need to do your own homework on that.

Knock out damaged bricks if it is safe to do so then lay new ones in the usual way - the only difficult one is the one at the top - using mortar (soft sand + cement, maybe 5:1 or so).

The top brick lay the brick in the void on a base of mortar laid in the normal way, chop in needs a rather stiffer mix (less water) to fill the mortar joint above the brick else as you puch mortar into the joint it'll all fall out the back into the cavity.

This takes a little technique not to push it all out the back and down the cavity. Maybe sharp sand would help instead of soft (I used sharp). You find the mortar will 'lock up' at the back of the mortar joint if you are careful and you just gently pack more in with an appropriate bit of wood until the top mortar joint is filled.

You *could* make up a sort of tool to back the mortar joint if that doesn't work for you, even just a bit of mesh pushed to the back of the joint, lots of different possibilities...

RJS wrote:
The cause of a loose socket has been traced to loose bricks (or their remains). The socket pattress was held loosely in by plaster around its edges.

As the fragments of brick were doing nothing more than sitting on the cavity wall foam I have removed them.

I now have a rather intimindating void to fill.

I often get this problem in my house because the inner leaf is very poor
brickwork. I've found that it is perfectly satisfactory to clean out all
the loose debris and then use a filler/adhesive such as Gunnanail or
Nomorenails, setting the backbox in it. If the side knockouts are
knocked in a bit they provide a key. If the backbox won't sit in
position put a length of ply or something about an inch wide over the
hole, with the backbox fixed to it using the normal screw holes. The ply
can be tacked to the adjacent wall if needs be. I've found that sockets
fixed that way are absolutely firm. The filler should of course be below
the wall face to allow for a bit of polyfilla.

Bill

On Aug 27, 10:50*pm, RJS wrote:
Hi Andrew

On Monday, August 27, 2012 10:26:26 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I would do A or B, depending what I had to hand.

Is there any reason why I _mustn't_ do 'c'?



The quality of the pointing doesn't matter in this case, indeed

the rougher, the better key for the plaster.

OTOH, I might have tried to fix the original problem by pushing the

back box into wad of sloppy bonding coat plaster, which will often

stick it to crumbly brickwork much better than a screw will fix one

there's no brickwork to screw to - just a void!



to solid brickwork, and stick the crumbly wall together. However,

don't use it instead or mortar, not that you've actually pulled the

wall apart.

--

Andrew Gabriel

[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I'm deleting the double socket that was in this pattress because I doubt that I can create a solid structure for the box to fix to - I don't want removal of a plug to pull the socket out of the wall. * I can live without the socket in this location. * I do, however, have to leave the timer-spur that was fed from the socket

Richard

Sounds like you're making work for yourself here. just block the hole
with any old bits of rubble plus 1:1:6 mortar, and stick the socket
backbox in with plaster. No need to get rid of a socket.

Brickwork is interlocking, if one's missing it won't go anywhere


NT

Thanks to all for the variety of calm reactions and sensible solutions. I tend to assume the worst :-)

I think that I will, still, delete the socket from that location and use the timer-spur to collect the cable ends. The socket was behind a bookcase and won't be missed. I will relocate it elsewhere.

Wish me luck

Rgds

Richard


PS are there any contra-indications concerning contact between filler foam and PVC cable?

R

On 28/08/2012 09:52, RJS wrote:
Thanks to all for the variety of calm reactions and sensible solutions. I tend to assume the worst :-)

I think that I will, still, delete the socket from that location and use the timer-spur to collect the cable ends. The socket was behind a bookcase and won't be missed. I will relocate it elsewhere.

Wish me luck

Rgds

Richard


PS are there any contra-indications concerning contact between filler foam and PVC cable?

R

You may be thinking about the problem where *polystyrene* foam draws the
plasticiser out of PVC, making the cable insulation brittle so that it
fractures and "shorts" if it is deformed. This typically used to happen
in insulated ceiling voids and lofts where the cables are not usually
well fixed down, so that later modifications move cable some way away.
I'm not aware that polyurethane (expanding) foam does the same, but in
any case it is likely to be immobilising the wires here so that even if
the insulation all fell off it would not matter.

--
For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat,
and wrong.
H L Menken

On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:02:46 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:



You may be thinking about the problem where *polystyrene* foam draws the

plasticiser out of PVC, making the cable insulation brittle so that it

fractures and "shorts" if it is deformed. This typically used to happen

in insulated ceiling voids and lofts where the cables are not usually

well fixed down, so that later modifications move cable some way away.

I'm not aware that polyurethane (expanding) foam does the same, but in

any case it is likely to be immobilising the wires here so that even if

the insulation all fell off it would not matter.



--

For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat,

and wrong.

H L Menken


Thank you.

Having started filling the hole today I decided to investigate relocating both 13A socket and timer spur and found that I was able to pull the ring cables supplying the 13A socket back under the floor. This means that I can relocate socket and spur timer with ease. Thus my concern about filler foam affecting PVC cable is irrelevant. However, yes, I was thinking about plasticiser migration so thank you for the info.

Rgds

Richard