On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:05:32 +0100, "Tired" wrote:


Regulation increases costs, competition decreases them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...d7hezM#t=22 s



--

The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:22:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:

Anyway, in a few months the Island of Ireland will be getting even cheaper power
'from Wales'


Wylfa?

Possibly for a few months, maybe even a year but it can't continue to operate
beyond January 2014.

Connah's Quay 1.4GW of 'cheap' gas generation is sited not too far away
electrically from the new Irish Interconnector. I'm surprised its still going
though as it's been up and running for a decade and a half, by that age many gas
plants are completely f*cked.

really?? I thought they were the sort of 25 year lifespan


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Aug 28, 6:24*pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Man at B&Q" *wrote in ...

On Aug 27, 4:40 pm, "Woodworm" wrote:









newshound wrote:
On 27/08/2012 14:57, Graham Murray wrote:
The Natural Philosopher writes:

Well tats what happens when you buy electricity from a company that
depends on gas and wind and probably ****, to make electricity.

25% less buying from EDF.

EON and RWE are depsreatly gouging te UK market to pay for te
disater rthat is te Geman electriciy market. Scottish and centrica
are gas/wind..

EDF is stable and cheap. The nukes are all bought and the costs are
totally predictable.

Yet surely all the (end-user) supplies come from the same generation
and distribution network? So whether you purchase your electricity
from SSE, EDF, EON or whomsoever it is the same electricity
generated by the same mix of coal, gas, nuclear, wind turbine and
hydro-electric and distributed via the National Grid.

Not from the same mix at all. EDF own their nuclear power stations,
also have one coal and a few CCGT, IIRC. They are vertically
integrated. They need to cover the costs of their generation from
their sales.

Do they have separate cable runs from their power stations to their end
users then? *And that's one of the reasons there is no REAL competition
between tha various energy companies - and why they use a vast array of
pricing schemes to confuse the public into thinking there is competition.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 04:00:17 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Aug 28, 6:24*pm, "tim....." wrote:

--snip--

And what about size of house? *(or number of people in the house). *It costs
more to heat a 5 bedroom house than a 1 bed one, and whilst you could
reasonably argue that if a single person chooses to live in a 5 bed (s)he
doesn't deserve a higher allowance, this isn't true of a 7 person family
living in the same.

Obviously such things would be taken into account.

How? What would stop everyone saying there are 10 people living in
their house?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 04:00:17 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Aug 28, 6:24 pm, "tim....." wrote:

--snip--

And what about size of house? (or number of people in the house). It costs
more to heat a 5 bedroom house than a 1 bed one, and whilst you could
reasonably argue that if a single person chooses to live in a 5 bed (s)he
doesn't deserve a higher allowance, this isn't true of a 7 person family
living in the same.
Obviously such things would be taken into account.

How? What would stop everyone saying there are 10 people living in
their house?

the electoral roll.

For a start.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 04:00:17 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Aug 28, 6:24 pm, "tim....." wrote:

--snip--

And what about size of house? (or number of people in the house).
It costs more to heat a 5 bedroom house than a 1 bed one, and whilst
you could reasonably argue that if a single person chooses to live in
a 5 bed (s)he doesn't deserve a higher allowance, this isn't true of
a 7 person family living in the same.
Obviously such things would be taken into account.

How? What would stop everyone saying there are 10 people living in
their house?

the electoral roll.

For a start.

that only lists those over 18.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:22:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:

Anyway, in a few months the Island of Ireland will be getting even cheaper power
'from Wales'


Wylfa?

Possibly for a few months, maybe even a year but it can't continue to operate
beyond January 2014.

Connah's Quay 1.4GW of 'cheap' gas generation is sited not too far away
electrically from the new Irish Interconnector. I'm surprised its still going
though as it's been up and running for a decade and a half, by that age many gas
plants are completely f*cked.

really?? I thought they were the sort of 25 year lifespan

Depends how much you paid for them, how cheap your gas was, how desperate you
were for 'profits' and consequentally how hard they were run. The Enron
'financed' plant on Teesside was on its last legs after less than 15 years.
Bought by GdF for a knock down price after Enron went to the wall they quickly
realised they had bought a bag-o-****e, so much so that they decided to spend
0.5 billion on what would have been a ground up rebuild. They then had seccnd
thoughts and 1.8GW of CCGT capacity was permanently taken offline leaving about
50MW of declared OCGT capacity at the site. Realistically none of it will run
again.

Meanwhile Ferrybridge C is still generating and has done for over 46 years.


--

The Other Mike wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 22:22:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The Other Mike wrote:

Anyway, in a few months the Island of Ireland will be getting even cheaper power
'from Wales'


Wylfa?
Possibly for a few months, maybe even a year but it can't continue to operate
beyond January 2014.

Connah's Quay 1.4GW of 'cheap' gas generation is sited not too far away
electrically from the new Irish Interconnector. I'm surprised its still going
though as it's been up and running for a decade and a half, by that age many gas
plants are completely f*cked.

really?? I thought they were the sort of 25 year lifespan

Depends how much you paid for them, how cheap your gas was, how desperate you
were for 'profits' and consequentally how hard they were run. The Enron
'financed' plant on Teesside was on its last legs after less than 15 years.
Bought by GdF for a knock down price after Enron went to the wall they quickly
realised they had bought a bag-o-****e, so much so that they decided to spend
0.5 billion on what would have been a ground up rebuild. They then had seccnd
thoughts and 1.8GW of CCGT capacity was permanently taken offline leaving about
50MW of declared OCGT capacity at the site. Realistically none of it will run
again.

Meanwhile Ferrybridge C is still generating and has done for over 46 years.


yeah, that I believe.
Drax is no chicken either, but then these are large capital plants and
worth repairing - gas has gotten expensive and centrica has closed a
CCGT unit as well somewhere.


In short the way for fly-by-nights to make dosh is with windmills and a
guaranteed price for every unit they can dish out
Not having top sell expensive gas against cheap coal in an un
competitive market.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Aug 30, 12:48*pm, Mark
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 04:00:17 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"

wrote:
On Aug 28, 6:24*pm, "tim....." wrote:

--snip--

And what about size of house? *(or number of people in the house). *It costs
more to heat a 5 bedroom house than a 1 bed one, and whilst you could
reasonably argue that if a single person chooses to live in a 5 bed (s)he
doesn't deserve a higher allowance, this isn't true of a 7 person family
living in the same.

Obviously such things would be taken into account.

How? *What would stop everyone saying there are 10 people living in
their house?

Use your imagination.

MBQ

Meanwhile Ferrybridge C is still generating and has done for over 46 years.


yeah, that I believe.
Drax is no chicken either, but then these are large capital plants and
worth repairing - gas has gotten expensive and centrica has closed a
CCGT unit as well somewhere.


In short the way for fly-by-nights to make dosh is with windmills and a
guaranteed price for every unit they can dish out
Not having top sell expensive gas against cheap coal in an un
competitive market.



Someone mention Wind;?...


http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/featur...ore-efficient/


--
Tony Sayer