Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of
black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd
"cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the
engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or
is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't
added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.

Whatever, an oil change and refilling to the right level would be a good
idea.

Tim

Tim wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of
black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd
"cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the
engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or
is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't
added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.

Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?


Whatever, an oil change and refilling to the right level would be a good
idea.

Tim


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of
black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd
"cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the
engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or
is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't
added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.

Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?

Go back and read the thread from the start. The problems started when the
mower was misfueled.

Tim

"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:


Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.

Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?

hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,

Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we all
know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.

Gazz wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:


Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's
remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb
and
has diluted the oil.

Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?

hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,

Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.

But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.

Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.

But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now.

Tim

Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.
Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.
But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now.

Exactly.

Tim


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.
Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.
But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now.

Exactly.

Um, meaning I suppose that you still haven't read the thread and haven't a
clue?

Tim

Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.
Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.
But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now.

Exactly.

Um, meaning I suppose that you still haven't read the thread and haven't a
clue?

Tim
No Tim meaning I have read it and the diesel issue was over about 130
posts ago, so I concluded you had simply missed the last 130 posts and
actually thought it was a diesel engine.

--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.
Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.
But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now. Exactly.
Um, meaning I suppose that you still haven't read the thread and haven't a
clue?
Tim
No Tim meaning I have read it and the diesel issue was over about 130
posts ago, so I concluded you had simply missed the last 130 posts and
actually thought it was a diesel engine.

Nice try but it's clear that *you* had missed or forgotten the post about
diesel misfuelling.

Tim

On Jul 22, 6:48*pm, Tim+
wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:









Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Gazz wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" stood up and shat forth the following:
Overfilling is bad, deal with it. If you didn't overfill it it's remotely
possible that diesel has leaked through a split diaphragm in the carb and
has diluted the oil.
Since when has any lawnmower been diesel or any stock diesel used a carb?
hey, save those kinds of replies for the resident plonker,
Remember this particular lawnmower had treid to run on diesel, and we
all know what diesel does to rubber parts not designed for it.
But any diesel in the fuel would cause smoking throughout the run

Oh for feck's sake, do keep up! This was ages ago. There's no diesel in the
fuel now. Exactly.
Um, meaning I suppose that you still haven't read the thread and haven't a
clue?
Tim
No Tim meaning I have read it and the diesel issue was over about 130
posts ago, so I concluded you had simply missed the last 130 posts and
actually thought it was a diesel engine.

Nice try but it's clear that *you* had missed or forgotten the post about
diesel misfuelling.

Tim

Sorry NP, but having followed the original thread and this one with
interest as my mower engine is misbehaving, I have to come down on
Tim's side and say that his 'nice try' comment would seem to be the
correct one.

Don't splutter and protest - we all know you just had a brain-fart !
Don't we all on occasions ?

Rob

On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as NP mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore able to get past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke throughout as it would continually burn the thinned oil during operation?

Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's yesterday and he has the same engine with the same set of problems....

Lee Nowell wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a
blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for
around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the
engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings
or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I
haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the
issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as NP
mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore able to get
past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke throughout as it would
continually burn the thinned oil during operation?

Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's yesterday and he has the
same engine with the same set of problems....

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel produces black
smoke. They also smell very different.

Tim

Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.


So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or
is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't
added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at
least a year.

Not added oil for 5 years!!! You mean you haven't changed it for 5 years!!!
Give the poor machine a chance, change the oil.

Mike

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel produces black
smoke. They also smell very different.

Tim

Ah... that is interesting... So the black smoke on initial start is unburnt fuel which would explain why it is black on initial start post priming. It still produces a plume of black smoke when started without priming (when hot) though. After the initial plume, engine runs with no smoke.

thanks

Lee.

Tim+ wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now
stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a
blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for
around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the
engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings
or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I
haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the
issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.
To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as NP
mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore able to get
past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke throughout as it would
continually burn the thinned oil during operation?

Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's yesterday and he has the
same engine with the same set of problems....

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel produces black
smoke. They also smell very different.

More or less exactly wrong. oil is black: over rich is whitish
grey.diesel oil also blackish.


Tim


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 23/07/2012 08:15, Lee Nowell wrote:
Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel produces black
smoke. They also smell very different.

Tim
Ah... that is interesting... So the black smoke on initial start is unburnt fuel which would explain why it is black on initial start post priming. It still produces a plume of black smoke when started without priming (when hot) though. After the initial plume, engine runs with no smoke.

thanks

Lee.
It sounds to me like the engine is not really doing badly now. Black
smoke on starting is normal and on a cheap engine, oil smoke is normal
until it is warm, expecially with knacked old oil and that could be up
to 10 mins. The emissions and regulations and luxury of car engines give
a false expectation. Listen to a B reg micra when it is cold and hear it
piston slap. The Sunny of the same age will not slap, it is built not to.

In my experience around where I live all small motors take a while to
settle down. and you can normally smell them from a couple of gardens away.

The vital question is, can you now use it to mow the grass?

Gary

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I
have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head
bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave
out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but
with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine
run
for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the
cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant
flow of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap
in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.
To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as
NP mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore
able to get past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke
throughout as it would continually burn the thinned oil during
operation? Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's yesterday and
he has
the same engine with the same set of problems....

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel
produces black smoke. They also smell very different.

More or less exactly wrong. oil is black: over rich is whitish
grey.diesel oil also blackish.

??? Never in my experience. Are you still sore about forgetting the diesel
misfuelling? ;-)

Seriously though, I'd be interested to read other comments on this. I'll
grant you that oil smoke leans towards a bluey grey rather than white but I
think you've got it wrong (again).

Tim

Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I
have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped
head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave
out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine
but with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let
the engine run
for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on
the cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be
using oil as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and
have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant
flow of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be
crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.
To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as
NP mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore
able to get past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke
throughout as it would continually burn the thinned oil during
operation? Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's
yesterday and he has
the same engine with the same set of problems....

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel
produces black smoke. They also smell very different.

More or less exactly wrong. oil is black: over rich is whitish
grey.diesel oil also blackish.

??? Never in my experience. Are you still sore about forgetting the
diesel misfuelling? ;-)

Seriously though, I'd be interested to read other comments on this.
I'll grant you that oil smoke leans towards a bluey grey rather than
white but I think you've got it wrong (again).

Tim

Unless you're still thinking that this is a diesel mower. ;-)

Tim

On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... *I have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. *I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a little
oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is fairly
harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not ideal, but mower
engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Oil getting past worn parts can always be much reduced by switching
oil grade, eg from 10/30 to 20/50, and it sounds like that would be a
good plan to reduce temporary valve fouling.


NT

Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I
have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head
bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave
out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but
with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the
engine run
for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the
cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant
flow of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be
crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.
To be honest, it could do with an oil change anyway... I guess as
NP mentions though, even if the oil is thinner and is therefore
able to get past the piston ring, wouldn't I see black smoke
throughout as it would continually burn the thinned oil during
operation? Funnily enough, I was over my brother in-law's yesterday
and he has
the same engine with the same set of problems....

Burning oil usually produces white smoke whilst unburnt fuel
produces black smoke. They also smell very different.

More or less exactly wrong. oil is black: over rich is whitish
grey.diesel oil also blackish.

??? Never in my experience. Are you still sore about forgetting the
diesel misfuelling? ;-)

Seriously though, I'd be interested to read other comments on this.
I'll grant you that oil smoke leans towards a bluey grey rather than
white but I think you've got it wrong (again).

Oh dear. com[pare a diesl exhaust (oil burning) with - say an over rich
petrol engine to see the difference.

Tim



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

NT wrote:
On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head bolt.

When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around 1 min maybe 2.

Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but difficult to tell)
4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on the cylinder.
6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and all are clean.

So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having the issues for at least a year.
2. If the piston ring has gone wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow of black smoke?
3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a little
oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is fairly
harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not ideal, but mower
engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Fully burnt anything gives NO smoke.

The black is carbon, the white is more or less water vapour. Longert
chain hydrocarbons (kerosenes and oils) have less hydrogen per unit
carbon and therefore burn blacker.



Oil getting past worn parts can always be much reduced by switching
oil grade, eg from 10/30 to 20/50, and it sounds like that would be a
good plan to reduce temporary valve fouling.


NT


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have
now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head
bolt. When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a blast
of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around
1 min maybe 2. Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on
the cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year. 2. If the piston ring has gone
wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow
of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in the
exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a little
oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is fairly
harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not ideal, but
mower engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Fully burnt anything gives NO smoke.

The black is carbon, the white is more or less water vapour. Longert
chain hydrocarbons (kerosenes and oils) have less hydrogen per unit
carbon and therefore burn blacker.

That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat world), a
petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a petrol engine burning
engine oil produces whiter smoke (blue/grey/white).

Tim

Tim

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 15:50:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Oh dear. com[pare a diesl exhaust (oil burning) with - say an over rich
petrol engine to see the difference.

Both black.

Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have
now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head
bolt. When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a
blast
of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around
1 min maybe 2. Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on
the cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year. 2. If the piston ring has gone
wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow
of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap in
the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a little
oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is fairly
harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not ideal, but
mower engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Fully burnt anything gives NO smoke.

The black is carbon, the white is more or less water vapour. Longert
chain hydrocarbons (kerosenes and oils) have less hydrogen per unit
carbon and therefore burn blacker.

That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat world), a
petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a petrol engine
burning engine oil produces whiter smoke (blue/grey/white).

Never has in the real world tim.


Tim

Tim


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:


That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat world),
a petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a petrol engine
burning engine oil produces whiter smoke (blue/grey/white).

Never has in the real world tim.


Smoking disel : black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdkVkL3tDXM

smokin petrol is white

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0q9l8xejrE

mostly because ofte over rich mixture misfiring and shoving steam and
unbirnt fuel oput.



Tim

Tim




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I have
now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped head
bolt. When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave out a
blast
of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for around
1 min maybe 2. Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on
the cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year. 2. If the piston ring has gone
wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow
of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap
in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a little
oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is fairly
harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not ideal, but
mower engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Fully burnt anything gives NO smoke.

The black is carbon, the white is more or less water vapour. Longert
chain hydrocarbons (kerosenes and oils) have less hydrogen per unit
carbon and therefore burn blacker.

That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat world),
a petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a petrol engine
burning engine oil produces whiter smoke (blue/grey/white).

Never has in the real world tim.



And this is the best example of white petrol smoke


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX_NZ...eature=related

Tim

Tim




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On 22 July, 10:21, Lee Nowell wrote:
Hi all,

Further to my earlier posts on my mower engine troubles.... I
have now stripped the engine back down and removed the snapped
head bolt. When I fired her up after the previous "fix", it gave
out a blast
of black smoke at initial start up otherwise run fine but with the
odd "cough" and now visible smoke. I let the engine run for
around 1 min maybe 2. Looking at the internals now... I have...
1. a little soot on the plug (was cleaned before fitting before)
2. Black soot on the inlet valve (exhaust valve is clean)
3. A bit of black soot on the piston top (maybe a little oil but
difficult to tell) 4. A little oil on the cylinder sides
5. having cleaned the cylinder with a cloth then manually turned
the engine over a could of times, there is a little oil again on
the cylinder. 6. Checking the oil level, it has been over filled
7. I have removed all sections from fuel tank to inlet valve and
all are clean. So.... a couple of questions.
1. Could the over fill be causing the oil to get past the piston
rings or is a little oil normal. I don't think it can be using oil
as I haven't added any oil for around 5 years and have been having
the issues for at least a year. 2. If the piston ring has gone
wouldn't I be seeing a constant flow
of black smoke? 3. Could the initial blast of black smoke be crap
in the exhaust?

thanks all for your help on this.

Lee.

I wouldnt lose sleep over black smoke at start up. Similarly a
little oil leakage into the cylinder, as long as it starts ok, is
fairly harmless, deposits soon get burnt off during use. Not
ideal, but mower engines are crude things.

AIUI black smoke is carbon, meaning unburnt anything, and plenty of
CO. Fully burnt oil gives grey smoke.

Fully burnt anything gives NO smoke.

The black is carbon, the white is more or less water vapour. Longert
chain hydrocarbons (kerosenes and oils) have less hydrogen per unit
carbon and therefore burn blacker.

That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat
world), a petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a
petrol engine burning engine oil produces whiter smoke
(blue/grey/white).

Never has in the real world tim.

In that case, I think you must live on a different planet from me.

Tim

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:


That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat
world), a petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a
petrol engine burning engine oil produces whiter smoke
(blue/grey/white).
Never has in the real world tim.


Smoking disel : black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdkVkL3tDXM

For fecks sake, will you give up on diesel engines! We're talking about a
petrol lawnmower (possibly burning its own engine oil).


smokin petrol is white

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0q9l8xejrE

mostly because ofte over rich mixture misfiring and shoving steam and
unbirnt fuel oput.


Um, didn't sleeve valve engines go out of fashion due to lubrication
problems with the valves? They need a lot more lube that a poppet valve and
hence more oil gets burnt. You can clearly see puffs of black smoke coming
from the exhaust during start up until the engine warms up and the mixture
is leaned out.

Hardly a good example to support your case.

Try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Y-0...tailpage#t=15s

Proves no more than your clip but is at least based on a conventional poppet
valve petrol engine and is typical of an engine running rich.

Tim

On 23/07/2012 17:12, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim+ wrote:


That's as may be, but in the real world (at least the pre-cat
world), a petrol engine running rich produces black smoke but a
petrol engine burning engine oil produces whiter smoke
(blue/grey/white).
Never has in the real world tim.


Smoking disel : black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdkVkL3tDXM

For fecks sake, will you give up on diesel engines! We're talking
about a petrol lawnmower (possibly burning its own engine oil).


smokin petrol is white

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0q9l8xejrE

mostly because ofte over rich mixture misfiring and shoving steam and
unbirnt fuel oput.


Um, didn't sleeve valve engines go out of fashion due to lubrication
problems with the valves? They need a lot more lube that a poppet
valve and hence more oil gets burnt. You can clearly see puffs of
black smoke coming from the exhaust during start up until the engine
warms up and the mixture is leaned out.

Hardly a good example to support your case.

Try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Y-0...tailpage#t=15s

Proves no more than your clip but is at least based on a conventional
poppet valve petrol engine and is typical of an engine running rich.

Tim


The text for the Bristol engine by the owner says 'The rich mixture
produces the thick black smoke but clears as she gets above 1300rpm. I
hope to get to the bottom of the fuel mixture problem soon as she makes
for an expensive hobby guzzling about six litres per minute at present -
at idle.'

and the tank engine from a comment 1 0f many similar 'Maybe if he?
didn't rev the life outta it the piston rings etc would not pass buckets
of oil!'

I personally can only look on in awe