Hi,
I'm having a major house renovation going on (for large 1930s 4-bed house). I wonder whether retrofitting a wet UFH system is worth the expenditure.
Architect is putting it in in the new extension section of the house but not anywhere else. Floors will be engineered hardwood throughout and I worry they will feel cold (had carpets before). He says depron insulation on floor might be enough and builders not keen on installing UFH anywhere else. House will be brought to current standards in terms of insulation however.
Anyone has experience with having UFH? Does it significantly improve comfort levels and is it worth the cost installing it throughout the house? I have to replace whole plumbing/radiators anyway (Apparently too much sludge build up inside), but was told UFH throughout the house is just unnecessary unless newbuild.
I was also keen to put in a heat airpump but was told this was also a waste of money. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as I can't make up my mind. thanks

On 09/07/2012 07:32, stilldreaming wrote:

Anyone has experience with having UFH? Does it significantly improve
comfort levels and is it worth the cost installing it throughout the
house? I have to replace whole plumbing/radiators anyway (Apparently too
much sludge build up inside), but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.

Yes.
and Yes,
No.

The reason I did it was because our front room only had 2 walls that
were suitable for the large radiators required, but we took one of the
walls away to open up the lounge/diner so UFH was the only real option.
Plus having radiator-free walls means more usable wall space without
sacrificing heating efficiency. (desks in front of radiators etc)

Another reason was to get some sound insulation between upstairs living
area and downstairs bedrooms. UFH was the answer. I added a layer of
rockwool on top of the ceiling before putting in the UFH.

Zoning off the individual rooms is also great for comfort levels.
Engineered wood here which also means you can whizz around the floors
with a "duster mop" type thing and use the vacuum to suck up the single
pile of dust once done.

Bedrooms... no. It would have meant digging up the entire concrete
floor. So I recently (about 5 years after ripping out the old
pipes/radiators) re-instated bedroom rads. I think this is by far the
best solution as they heat up the bedrooms very quickly just right for
the 30 minutes or so you spend out of bed at each end of the day. UFH
would be a complete waste of time and money for bedrooms (in this house
at least)

HTH
Pete

"stilldreaming" wrote in message
...

Hi,
I'm having a major house renovation going on (for large 1930s 4-bed
house). I wonder whether retrofitting a wet UFH system is worth the
expenditure.
Architect is putting it in in the new extension section of the house but
not anywhere else. Floors will be engineered hardwood throughout and I
worry they will feel cold (had carpets before). He says depron
insulation on floor might be enough and builders not keen on installing
UFH anywhere else. House will be brought to current standards in terms
of insulation however.
Anyone has experience with having UFH? Does it significantly improve
comfort levels and is it worth the cost installing it throughout the
house? I have to replace whole plumbing/radiators anyway (Apparently too
much sludge build up inside), but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.
I was also keen to put in a heat airpump but was told this was also a
waste of money. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as I can't
make up my mind. thanks


Did UFH on ground floor in a recently refurb'd 1850's cottage. Floors had to
be dug anyhow as just quarry tiles on earth.

During the digging of approx 30t of soil and barrowing it by hand out we
were ready to reconsider and just install radiators. Persevered and did the
UFH.

Absolutely would not hesitate to do it again now. Both under tiles and
wooden floor its lovely. Running costs looking like less than radiators
which would loose a certain amount out through the walls in localised spots.

Installation cost was slightly more than rads circa £200ish.

Do it.

tim.

Thanks for the reply. What did it cost may I ask?
In our house, just to have UFH downstairs will add extra 8k (total cost 12k ish), mostly due to digging up concrete in kitchen.

On 09/07/2012 18:05, stilldreaming wrote:
Thanks for the reply. What did it cost may I ask?
In our house, just to have UFH downstairs will add extra 8k (total cost
12k ish), mostly due to digging up concrete in kitchen.

Can't remember exactly, it was all done by myself and muddled in with
many other things. I think the "kit" for 4 rooms including full
technical drawing and design etc etc was less than £2k from Nu-Heat
Add to that enough 65mm (ish) celotex to do 45m sq. and ply & battens etc.
Original chipboard floor had broken down in places so that had to come
up anyway.

Being a suspended (between joists) job was pretty straight forward and
made the house re-wire and re-plumb an easy DIY job too..

£12k would have made me think twice though...
:¬)

If you are renovating to the extent that the majority of the flooring is being lifted then certainly UFH is very viable. Consideration needs to be taken with different floor structures so the design is important to get right.
Email me your plans & I will advise:

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:32:55 +0000, stilldreaming
wrote:

but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.

It's lovely to have, but if the house is well insulated it's an
unnecessary expense if you're tight on budget.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:32:55 +0000, stilldreaming
wrote:

but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.

It's lovely to have, but if the house is well insulated it's an
unnecessary expense if you're tight on budget.

UFH is good because it gives you warm feet and it means you tend to
actually run the house at lower temps. Its also good because it can use
low grade heat from heatpumps. Its also good because the radiatior IS
the floor and that means walls look better.

But none of these things is an overriding concern in a retrofit, where
the expense of doing it PROPERLY will outweigh the advantages.

Neither is it advantageous in a house with low thermal inertia that is
often unoccupied: screed floors have massive time constants, and that
means you end up having to heat the place most of the time whether in or
out. With good insulation that's no big deal, but not on an older house.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 09/07/2012 07:32, stilldreaming wrote:

Anyone has experience with having UFH? Does it significantly improve
comfort levels and is it worth the cost installing it throughout the
house? I have to replace whole plumbing/radiators anyway (Apparently too
much sludge build up inside), but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.
I was also keen to put in a heat airpump but was told this was also a
waste of money. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated as I can't
make up my mind. thanks



I have UFH throughout the house ... 1/ the ground floor is covered with
engineered wood flooring ... works a treat.
You do need to use correct underlay ...
I wrote a section in Uk_Selfbuild faq that covers UFH ... might be worth
reading (or email me for extract)

UFH works best when 'in-screed' as whole floor becomes a rad, giving
even low level heat with no hotspots.

It can be used under suspended floor , all my first floor is done this
way ..fitted form below to wheyrock deck.
Flooring is a mixture or ceramic tiles or laminate flooring.

Personally not sold og air to air heat pumps. Great if you have a
large lake or similar for water to air

What you do need is efficient condensing boiler coupled to a large
pressured Thermal store.
This will give you UFH and mains pressure HW.
I also have a pumped HW loop ... so HW is instant on turning on tap ...
no delay for it to run hot.
HW loop also provides for Heated Towel rails in bathrooms - useful when
UFH is off.


Feel free to contact for nay questions.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 16:59:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

But none of these things is an overriding concern in a retrofit, where
the expense of doing it PROPERLY will outweigh the advantages.

Just so. I had intended to UFH mine, all over, but after discovering
that a mere 400W of lighting warms a room up with 100mm of aerobord
(EPS) plus foil lining on the walls and 150mm of sheepwool and foil in
the attic, I decided not to for that room. I expect the winter need
will be higher, but it's not a dealbreaker. Before the walls were
done, but the ceiling was finished, a 1kW fan heater was sufficient to
rapidly bring the room up to temp and it became too warm to work in
after that. That was during the winter.

Downstairs concrete flooring won't be getting ripped up to do UFH and
there's insufficient free space above the floor (height dictated by
swing in of substantial glazed door); the floor will be 25mm of foiled
Kingspan and 1" of ply above. There will be a stove, cookers and a
small rad or two in the kitchen. The bathroom - I might UFH, but might
not.

Many thanks for the replies.
I think it's all the concrete in the kitchen floor that is bumping up the cost.
I read a lot of stuff on the internet re wood not being a good heat store material and swollen legs. Others are very positive. My feeling is that I will probably miss it but the cost is just too high. I hope that with good insulation (depron for floor) the wood won't feel too cold.
Many people don't seem to like UFH in bedrooms either, I wonder why that is. It must be nice to wake up and put feet onto a warm floor. (There will be electric matts in bathrooms).

Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:

Many people don't seem to like UFH in bedrooms either, I wonder why that
is. It must be nice to wake up and put feet onto a warm floor. (There
will be electric matts in bathrooms).

Even with a relatively quick responding floor medium such as UFH between
joists, and heat spreader plates so no thermal mass from screed to soak
up the heat, it still takes time to warm up the room. For the amount of
time you spend in the bedroom actually standing on the floor each day
I'd suggest it just isn't worth it. Radiators can kick the room up to
temp in a very shot time, our bedroom rads are run off the same boiler
temp as UFH i.e. 55 degrees MAX with flow temperature reduced by weather
compensating boiler.

Even with our dodgy 60/70's built house with zero insulation other than
a plastic membrane between concrete base and 4" cement screed floor, a
simple carpet and underlay on top gives a warmth under foot, unlike one
of our bedrooms which is laminate (and a thin layer of under laminate
insulation board) which is extremely cold under foot. So carpets in
bedrooms and UFH in bathrooms and living spaces. Oh, not forgetting
proper hot water towel rails in bathrooms etc. (I know a man that built
a house with ONLY UFH and had nowhere to put damp towels or clothes etc)

Although, if I were to be building a new house obviously i'd spec UFH
all round just for the cleaner lines it affords.

In article , stilldreaming wrote:
Anyone has experience with having UFH? Does it significantly improve
comfort levels and is it worth the cost installing it throughout the
house? I have to replace whole plumbing/radiators anyway (Apparently too
much sludge build up inside), but was told UFH throughout the house is
just unnecessary unless newbuild.

When my upstairs underfloor heating failed (Nu-Heat), I put in radiators
because retrofitting UFH was more hassle than I was prepared to put up
with (or more accurately that the rest of my family were prepared to
put up with).
If/when it fails downstairs, it'll be a harder decision though - finding
suitable places to put radiators will be a nuisance in places.

Anyone got experience of skirting heating systems?
http://www.efficient-heating-solutio...d-heating.html
http://www.thermaskirt.com/Products.aspx

The danger with these technologies is that the industry is very ignorant on how to put them together - very few companies have the know-how or abiliity to do so.
Frequently I see bad advice which costs the customer a substantial amount of money without any particular gain other than being 'greener'. The running cost of one fuel is replaced by the running cost of another fuel without any financial saving & often an increased cost!!
A correct design is vital to any project.
My susggestion is to send plans to a reputable company who offer the full scope of what you require - a one stop shop rather than several different trades.
I suggest trying Churchill Flooring.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:46:50 +0000, Stephen Featherstone
wrote:

I suggest trying Churchill Flooring.

That would be the Churchill Flooring you're the Tile Manager of, would
it?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Stephen/Featherstone

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:46:50 +0000, Stephen Featherstone
wrote:

I suggest trying Churchill Flooring.

That would be the Churchill Flooring you're the Tile Manager of, would
it?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Stephen/Featherstone

Are you suggesting that he is a ****?

--
Adam

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 04:48:07 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:46:50 +0000, Stephen Featherstone
wrote:

I suggest trying Churchill Flooring.

That would be the Churchill Flooring you're the Tile Manager of, would
it?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Stephen/Featherstone

Are you suggesting that he is a ****?

I think there's a very real possibility of ****ness on the horizon,
yes.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 04:48:07 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:46:50 +0000, Stephen Featherstone
wrote:

I suggest trying Churchill Flooring.

That would be the Churchill Flooring you're the Tile Manager of,
would it?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Stephen/Featherstone

Are you suggesting that he is a ****?

I think there's a very real possibility of ****ness on the horizon,
yes.

And I was just going to call him a **** and not a ****

Too late to stop me now.


Stephen Featherstone is a ****.

--
Adam

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:

Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't
find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks

Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

sect 4.1.2 is what you need

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:

Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't
find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks

Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

sect 4.1.2 is what you need

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:

Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't
find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks

Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

sect 4.1.2 is what you need

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:

Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't
find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks

Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

sect 4.1.2 is what you need

On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:
Many thanks for the replies.


Incidentally, I would be interested to read the FAQ on UFH, but couldn't
find it. Could you post or email the link? thanks


Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

sect 4.1.2 is what you need

On 11/07/2012 10:33, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:



Even with a relatively quick responding floor medium such as UFH between
joists, and heat spreader plates so no thermal mass from screed to soak
up the heat, it still takes time to warm up the room. For the amount of
time you spend in the bedroom actually standing on the floor each day
I'd suggest it just isn't worth it. Radiators can kick the room up to
temp in a very shot time, our bedroom rads are run off the same boiler
temp as UFH i.e. 55 degrees MAX with flow temperature reduced by weather
compensating boiler.




Disagree with this .... having had homes with both systems ... I much
prefer a room where the whole floor is the warm temp, rather than a
searing hot rad on one wall.
The cut down in convection currents is a good thing and increases
comfort feeling.

The zones don't respond quickly I agree .. but I have 14 zones each with
digital set back stats ... and they NEVER feel cold, and don't overshoot.

It feels good to walk on pleasingly warm floors .. even tiled floors are
warm to the feet.

People who say this is new and won't catch on want to realise that
underfloor heating was used by the Romans.

Rick Hughes wrote:
On 11/07/2012 10:33, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 11/07/2012 00:37, stilldreaming wrote:



Even with a relatively quick responding floor medium such as UFH between
joists, and heat spreader plates so no thermal mass from screed to soak
up the heat, it still takes time to warm up the room. For the amount of
time you spend in the bedroom actually standing on the floor each day
I'd suggest it just isn't worth it. Radiators can kick the room up to
temp in a very shot time, our bedroom rads are run off the same boiler
temp as UFH i.e. 55 degrees MAX with flow temperature reduced by weather
compensating boiler.




Disagree with this .... having had homes with both systems ... I much
prefer a room where the whole floor is the warm temp, rather than a
searing hot rad on one wall.
The cut down in convection currents is a good thing and increases
comfort feeling.

yes, but it doesn't actually contradict what he was saying.


The zones don't respond quickly I agree .. but I have 14 zones each with
digital set back stats ... and they NEVER feel cold, and don't overshoot.


well yes, But YOU try from a boiler failure in winter..in a creed floor.
Her ist about 2-3 DAYS.



It feels good to walk on pleasingly warm floors .. even tiled floors are
warm to the feet.

People who say this is new and won't catch on want to realise that
underfloor heating was used by the Romans.

UFH is definitely the absolutely most luxurious and comfortable way to
heat a house BUT we were NOT discussing that, we were talking about cost.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Rick Hughes wrote:

Here is the last copy I edited ... it was to be uploaded to a WIKI after
that, but don't know status.

http://tinyurl.com/6t9axgr

It seems to live here now (UFH section)

http://www.borpin.co.uk/sbfaq/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=sbfaq:heating:central_heating#underflo or_heating

You're still in the credits.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:04:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


UFH is definitely the absolutely most luxurious and comfortable way to
heat a house BUT we were NOT discussing that, we were talking about
cost.


Not everyone would agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythromelalgia

--
Rod

polygonum wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:04:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


UFH is definitely the absolutely most luxurious and comfortable way to
heat a house BUT we were NOT discussing that, we were talking about
cost.


Not everyone would agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythromelalgia

WTF is that to do with heating?


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:59:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

polygonum wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:04:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

UFH is definitely the absolutely most luxurious and comfortable way to
heat a house BUT we were NOT discussing that, we were talking about
cost.


Not everyone would agree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythromelalgia

WTF is that to do with heating?



Hot floors are absolutely unbearable for sufferers. Cooled floors would be
great (except for the condensation issues that might be caused.)

--
Rod

Many thanks for replies. I have achieved some sort of compromise: wet UFH will cover about 60-70% of ground floor space. 1st floor (where bedrooms are) and attic space (where the guest room is) will have normal radiators. Will see how it pans out and how UFH performs. Not sure I can justify the cost/effort of doing it everywhere.

Hi every one every house have floors and also faced underfloor water or heating problem but there is no need to worry we provide excellent services to our customers in this purpose.

Carpet Restoration Gold Coast