Hi all, just about to start a small extension off the kitchen to be used as
a utility room/dog sleeping area. i would like to fit water based
underfloor heating to it and then progressively to the rest of the
(downstairs) house. so this is my first time with UFH.

What is the collective opinion/recommendation of products to use and not to
use? how easy is it to fit etc.

i have experience with plumbing, have moved boilers, added rads etc etc so
am confident in my abilities!

Any help gratefully received!

Steve

"r.p.mcmurphy" wrote in message
...
Hi all, just about to start a small extension off the kitchen to be used
as
a utility room/dog sleeping area. i would like to fit water based
underfloor heating to it and then progressively to the rest of the
(downstairs) house. so this is my first time with UFH.

What is the collective opinion/recommendation of products to use and not
to
use? how easy is it to fit etc.

In an existing house don't bother. It requires a tray of insulation, pipes
then a screed on top. Have a Myson Kickspce in the kitchen. If you don't
like rads get the designer rads that look neat.

"r.p.mcmurphy" wrote in message
...
Hi all, just about to start a small extension off the kitchen to be used
as
a utility room/dog sleeping area. i would like to fit water based
underfloor heating to it and then progressively to the rest of the
(downstairs) house. so this is my first time with UFH.

What is the collective opinion/recommendation of products to use and not
to
use? how easy is it to fit etc.

i have experience with plumbing, have moved boilers, added rads etc etc so
am confident in my abilities!

Any help gratefully received!

Steve


What's the floor like? If you have a void under it, then UFH is easy. If
you don't, then it can be a bugger.

It really depends on how your system is configured to the rest of the house
as well, as the UFH can demand to much flow and reduce the rest of the
system to almost luke warm. This is where the balancing act comes in to
play with the use of regulator valves and things.

Our own UFH system here has a Thermostatic valve fitted on the skirting of
each room, and a manually controlled regulator (gate valve, but regulator
sounds more technical) fitted on the heating return. Between the two they
keep the system balanced for even flow around the whole house and with
reasonably even temperature throughout.

I would advise you to use copper pipe for the heating loops, and to steer
clear of the these new plastic things. The plastic pipe doesn't, or can't
so I've heard, be run continually at the temperatures needed to provide a
good heating system of this type. So please use copper pipe if you want a
decent UFH system. We used 12 mm minibore for the heating loops on ours and
it's almost twelve years old (god, is it really that old), and we've never,
ever, had a problem with it at all.

The plastic pipe doesn't, or can't so I've heard, be run continually at
the temperatures needed to provide a good heating system of this type.

Eh? Plastic pipe can run many tens of degrees above that required to run an
underfloor heating system. The underfloor heating system will need a pump
and blending valve in order to reduce the flow temperature, as you have to
run it cool, to avoid overheating boards, carpets and tootsies.

Christian.

In article , BigWallop
writes


I would advise you to use copper pipe for the heating loops, and to steer
clear of the these new plastic things. The plastic pipe doesn't, or can't
so I've heard, be run continually at the temperatures needed to provide a
good heating system of this type. So please use copper pipe if you want a
decent UFH system. We used 12 mm minibore for the heating loops on ours and
it's almost twelve years old (god, is it really that old), and we've never,
ever, had a problem with it at all.

I think your information is about 12 yrs out of date then concerning the
plastic UFH pipes
--
David

"David" wrote in message
...
In article , BigWallop
writes


I would advise you to use copper pipe for the heating loops, and to steer
clear of the these new plastic things. The plastic pipe doesn't, or
can't
so I've heard, be run continually at the temperatures needed to provide a
good heating system of this type. So please use copper pipe if you want
a
decent UFH system. We used 12 mm minibore for the heating loops on ours
and
it's almost twelve years old (god, is it really that old), and we've
never,
ever, had a problem with it at all.

I think your information is about 12 yrs out of date then concerning the
plastic UFH pipes

David

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit better
than the plastics do. Am I so out of date on the differences in the physics
between metals and thermoplastics? It's my own personal feelings really,
but I like to stick to the things I know well. :-)

In article , BigWallop
writes

"David" wrote in message
.. .
In article , BigWallop
writes


I would advise you to use copper pipe for the heating loops, and to steer
clear of the these new plastic things. The plastic pipe doesn't, or
can't
so I've heard, be run continually at the temperatures needed to provide a
good heating system of this type. So please use copper pipe if you want
a
decent UFH system. We used 12 mm minibore for the heating loops on ours
and
it's almost twelve years old (god, is it really that old), and we've
never,
ever, had a problem with it at all.

I think your information is about 12 yrs out of date then concerning the
plastic UFH pipes

David

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit better
than the plastics do. Am I so out of date on the differences in the physics
between metals and thermoplastics?

That's not what you said was the reason though and in this particular
application I'm not sure that its a valid reason anyway

It's my own personal feelings really,
but I like to stick to the things I know well. :-)

That thinking though denies any progress and advancement
--
David

BigWallop wrote:

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit better
than the plastics do.

Surely that's a worse thing then?
If you have a 30m loop then by the time the water has got half way round
it will have shed it's load creating un-even temperatures and excessive
heat.

Plastic micro-bore can be pumped much slower to release the same amount
of heat over a more even distribution.

:¬)

Am I so out of date on the differences in the physics
between metals and thermoplastics? It's my own personal feelings really,
but I like to stick to the things I know well. :-)




--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
BigWallop wrote:

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit better
than the plastics do.

Surely that's a worse thing then?
If you have a 30m loop then by the time the water has got half way round
it will have shed it's load creating un-even temperatures and excessive
heat.

Plastic micro-bore can be pumped much slower to release the same amount
of heat over a more even distribution. :¬)

To tell the honest truth, I haven't noticed that happening on our own
system. We've had it installed for many years and it's always given a good
temperature distribution across all the rooms. My last dealings with a
plastic pipework heating system seemed to make my point of not allowing the
heat to dissipate properly and evenly at all. But that could have been down
to the way it was installed.

We had ours fitted like two, or three in the big living room, 10 mm
mini-bore loops under the floors. The loops are all connected to larger 15
mm flow and return pipes which run along one end of the room. This seems to
keep the whole lot in a good balance for the heat distribution. The living
room being 6 mtrs by 5 mtrs. The flow pipe has been raised above floor
level to fit a standard radiator thermostat valve at the height where a
radiator would sit on the wall. This is just a little loop of 15 mm pipe so
isn't unsightly at all when it's painted.

The system has never given any problems since it was fitted, apart from the
one pump replacement, and has always given a very comfortable level of
heating throughout the house, even on the coldest of days. It's great to be
able to walk on ceramic tiles in the loo on the coldest day of the year.
This is in an 100 year old tenement building, so it isn't in a new well
insulated building, and it always has worked really well. I always thank my
dads old, and now sadly deceased, plumber pal for his advice on it. He
really knew what he was talking about.

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
BigWallop wrote:

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit better
than the plastics do.

Surely that's a worse thing then?
If you have a 30m loop then by the time the water has got half way round
it will have shed it's load creating un-even temperatures and excessive
heat.

Then you shorten the size of the zone.

Plastic micro-bore can be pumped much slower to release the same amount
of heat over a more even distribution.

So can copper. If having UFH under a wooden floor copper is probably better
using soldered joints as the likelihood of leak with a fitting is near nil.
With plastic you have the pushfits under the floor which may give problems
at some time. Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
BigWallop wrote:

Well, it is still my opinion that copper transfers the heat a bit
better
than the plastics do.

Surely that's a worse thing then?
If you have a 30m loop then by the time the water has got half way round
it will have shed it's load creating un-even temperatures and excessive
heat.

Plastic micro-bore can be pumped much slower to release the same amount
of heat over a more even distribution. :¬)

To tell the honest truth, I haven't noticed that happening on our own
system. We've had it installed for many years and it's always given a
good
temperature distribution across all the rooms. My last dealings with a
plastic pipework heating system seemed to make my point of not allowing
the
heat to dissipate properly and evenly at all. But that could have been
down
to the way it was installed.

We had ours fitted like two, or three in the big living room, 10 mm
mini-bore loops under the floors. The loops are all connected to larger
15
mm flow and return pipes which run along one end of the room. This seems
to
keep the whole lot in a good balance for the heat distribution. The
living
room being 6 mtrs by 5 mtrs. The flow pipe has been raised above floor
level to fit a standard radiator thermostat valve at the height where a
radiator would sit on the wall. This is just a little loop of 15 mm pipe
so
isn't unsightly at all when it's painted.

The system has never given any problems since it was fitted, apart from
the
one pump replacement, and has always given a very comfortable level of
heating throughout the house, even on the coldest of days. It's great to
be
able to walk on ceramic tiles in the loo on the coldest day of the year.
This is in an 100 year old tenement building, so it isn't in a new well
insulated building, and it always has worked really well. I always thank
my
dads old, and now sadly deceased, plumber pal for his advice on it. He
really knew what he was talking about.

You may be heating the room below as well, if no insulation is below the
pipes. The zone pipes are best all going to a manifold system and electric
stats in the ideal room location operating cheap zone valves at the
manifolds, all in the one easily maintainable place.

Of course the pipes temps must be no more than 50C so a blending valve is
needed.

Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just notch the top of the joists, un-roll
onto the cellotex and press down into the clip track fitted every metre.
It's as easy as walking along clipping the pipe in with your foot as you go.

Our biggest zone 6m x 5m has 6 x 30m coils all terminating in a
distribution manifold in a box with removeable lid in one corner of the
room. This is fed with 18mm aluplex pipe that is hand formable which
runs back to the main manifold so there are no joints at all under the
floor area apart from the connections within each room distribution
manifold (housed in the box)

I got the entire 65 M sq. laid in a weekend.

That was by far the easiest part of the operation.

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam! (sometimes)

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
. uk...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the pipes
rise or drop.

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the
pipes
rise or drop.

If the bend upwards occurs along the plane of the wall and embedded into it,
it is possible avoid underfloor joins even in this instance.

Christian.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 11:46:16 +0100, "r.p.mcmurphy"
wrote:

Hi all, just about to start a small extension off the kitchen to be used as
a utility room/dog sleeping area. i would like to fit water based
underfloor heating to it and then progressively to the rest of the
(downstairs) house. so this is my first time with UFH.

What is the collective opinion/recommendation of products to use and not to
use? how easy is it to fit etc.

i have experience with plumbing, have moved boilers, added rads etc etc so
am confident in my abilities!

Any help gratefully received!

Steve


My expereinces with KEE Tripple Tube are bad, very bad :-(

For the short time before the tube started to leak, it was great.

Rick

In article .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
.uk...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the pipes
rise or drop.


Bit out of touch aren't you John? the new systems consist of a continuos
coil that comes from and goes right back to the manifold, do try and
keep up
--
David

"David" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
.uk...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the
pipes
rise or drop.


Bit out of touch aren't you John?

Bertie, read what I write. S L O W L E Y

In article s.net,
Doctor Evil writes

"David" wrote in message
.. .
In article .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
.uk...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the
pipes
rise or drop.


Bit out of touch aren't you John?

Bertie, read what I write. S L O W L E Y

John, read what I write, even more slowly, I have just watched two
systems being installed, both went right back to the manifold without
joints, yes even at the wall.
--
David

"David" wrote in message
...
In article s.net,
Doctor Evil writes

"David" wrote in message
.. .
In article .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk" wrote in message
.uk...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Getting a full plastic coil under a floor without joints may
be difficult.

No it's not.

With 10mm PeX barrier pipe you just

I don't need to told how to do it thanks. The zone may be big or if a
suspended floor, impossible not to have a joint near the walls as the
pipes
rise or drop.

Bit out of touch aren't you John?

Bertie, read what I write. S L O W L E Y

John, read what I write, even more slowly, I have just watched two
systems being installed, both went right back to the manifold without
joints, yes even at the wall.

Bertie, in an existing house, that may not be teh case. Easy on a new
build. So, Bertie, read what I write. S L O W L E Y