Martin Brown wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote

I usually do ring the power co

I don't normally bother unless I need some idea about how long it will be
off for.

That is usually a factor since like yesterday we were dropped off grid at
18.15 just in time to prevent fully cooking dinner.

Surely that doesn't happen very often, that you get
a power failure in the middle of cooking dinner ?

NEDL have replaced customer service with a voice recognition Dalek that
you have to shout your postcode at several times to get anywhere.

The recorded message was pretty bland in this case. Major electrical storm
serious disruption due to flooding lots of areas down over a wide area and
no idea when they will be back on again.

Sure, but you do at least get the idea that you might as well eat
whats viable to eat or drag out the camping gas powered stove etc.

I've only ever had it happen once, when the power failed about
half way thru the roast.

We took a direct hit possibly to the village hall as the highest point.
There was literally a flash and a bang simultaneously and then no
electricity.

Power was still off last night when we gave up about 11pm and as you can
see is back on this morning. Full marks to their engineers!

Yeah, we've had one of those. On one occasion the 11KV line
was down with the concrete pole hanging on the 11Kv lines.
Useful to know its going to take a while to fix that. I just went
to bed and it was back in the morning.

charles wrote:

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 27/06/2012 19:11, David WE Roberts wrote:

Unless of course the cellular masts and the local telephone exchange
are down, in which case a phone number isn't much use either.


Phone would be OK ... exchanges have their own power .. so analogue POTS
not affected.
3G masts are a different issue.

A lot of them do have battery standby power back up I know of several
round here that do and can't remember a time when Vodafone failed in the
area..

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.


Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?
--
Tim Watts

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

--

The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

faceslap ;-


GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Hmm. What I was wondering, if for example, it only added 25p per month to
everyone's contract, surely it would be worth having - the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only other
reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is for
emergencies.

Given how high BT land line charges are, it could be a win for a lot of
people.

--
Tim Watts

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would
add to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

faceslap ;-


GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Hmm. What I was wondering, if for example, it only added 25p per month to
everyone's contract, surely it would be worth having - the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only
other reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is
for emergencies.

might be true in the towns, but in the countyside, I can't imaginne
universal 3G. I can just get 3G in a corner of an upstairs bedroom. Was
useful when the chavs cut our landline.

Given how high BT land line charges are, it could be a win for a lot of
people.

at the moment SWMBO share a lineline connection. If the family is larger
then I can't see mobiles winning on cost grounds.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would
add to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?
You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

faceslap ;-

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Hmm. What I was wondering, if for example, it only added 25p per month to
everyone's contract, surely it would be worth having - the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only
other reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is
for emergencies.

might be true in the towns, but in the countyside, I can't imaginne
universal 3G. I can just get 3G in a corner of an upstairs bedroom. Was
useful when the chavs cut our landline.

Given how high BT land line charges are, it could be a win for a lot of
people.

at the moment SWMBO share a lineline connection. If the family is larger
then I can't see mobiles winning on cost grounds.

At the moment I pay what rental for a landline I have to (£12 a month
IIRC) and PAYG phonecalls on that and on a VOIP phone. I could have up
to 4 voip phones on separate number and separately charged.If it made sense.

Since line rental is needful for broadband anyway, I just regard it as
part of the bill.



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:33:39 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only
other reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is
for emergencies.

might be true in the towns, but in the countyside, I can't imaginne
universal 3G. I can just get 3G in a corner of an upstairs bedroom. Was
useful when the chavs cut our landline.

Despite being on a B road in a flat open valley our 'country retreat'
has no 2G coverage outdoors at ground level, it is just about usable
for texting if you sit right next to one window in the attic, this is
Orange only, the others have zero coverage.

We have to go 6 miles to the nearest towns to get 'normal' 2G
coverage on Vodafone or O2 and some odd bits of 3G with handheld
phones. Locally, ancient phones like the Nokia 6210 / 6310 with
decent RF stages fare much better on 2G than any smartphones, iPhones
are unusable. Old Nokias with a car kit and glass mount aerial fare a
lot better. Analogue ETACS coverage, particularly with a car kit was
ok until Vodafone pulled the plug about 2000 or so.

To get any near 'universal' 3G coverage from the likes of Vodafone /
O2 / Orange or Three needs a trip of 15 miles, I can't see that
changing anytime soon, fortunately wired broadband is available with
good sync speeds albeit only via BT.



--

On Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:38:02 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:43:27 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:


I have a couple of LED torches with the switch bridged by a 10M resistor
so that they glow continuously. That way after dark adaption you can
find them in total darkness. Where I live is seriously dark if the mains
fails. I have two emergency lights - kitchen and dining room.

That's a dead good idea and I might steal it from you.

Much better to have rechargeable torches that come on auto
when the mains fails. That way they are very easy to find and
you can just unplug it from the charger and use it wherever
you like.

I have one here, never had to use it though as it's at work and if the power fails it's during daylight. But it's a very good idea, if teh power fails the torch flashes, whether that makes it easier to located in the dark I'm not sure but the battery would last longer.


I have candles and cigarette lighters in strategic places where they
can always be found without tripping over any furniture on the way.

Makes more sense to keep a torch in the same places.

The last thing I'd want to do in a dark room is try to light a candle :-


For a non-smoker I seem to have a lot of cigarette lighters around:
but apart from candle-lighting on power-off days, I use them for
odd jobs in the workshop.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:38:02 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:43:27 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:


I have a couple of LED torches with the switch bridged by a 10M
resistor so that they glow continuously. That way after dark
adaption you can find them in total darkness. Where I live is
seriously dark if the mains fails. I have two emergency lights
- kitchen and dining room.

That's a dead good idea and I might steal it from you.

Much better to have rechargeable torches that come on auto
when the mains fails. That way they are very easy to find and
you can just unplug it from the charger and use it wherever
you like.

I have one here, never had to use it though as it's at work and if
the power fails it's during daylight. But it's a very good idea, if
teh power fails the torch flashes, whether that makes it easier to
located in the dark I'm not sure but the battery would last longer.


I have candles and cigarette lighters in strategic places where
they can always be found without tripping over any furniture on
the way.

Makes more sense to keep a torch in the same places.

The last thing I'd want to do in a dark room is try to light a candle
:-

Yoy can always use the LED torch on your mobile phone:-)

--
Adam

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:44:52 GMT, Windmill wrote:

Copper wire theft...

As it was only off for short while, attempted copper wire theft.

You're suggesting maybe that the line fault cleared, allowing a reset,
after the vaporisation of the propspective thief?

Possibly but if the attempted theft had been succesful the cut would have
been quite long.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:39:11 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Maybe 100W @ 48v call it 2A = 48AHr per day per network. Mr Sayer sent a
photo of a cabinet with batteries they don't look big enough to be 48AHr but
battery technology does vary. They would keep it up for a few hours though.

The cells around here don't have backup and that includes the ones colocated
with the local TV relay (that doesn't have backup either).

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
snip
First genset I saw was summer 1973, at an ICL installation in Brighton. A
1902S (I worked as an operator over the summer) at Advance Linen in
Richmond Place. Had only been there a few days and had to start it all up
myself due to the other two staff being stuck on the way to work. That's
when I learned you pull the red knob OUT first...

Ahhhhh- 1900s :-)))
Came late to the game, running DME on 2960s then 2966s.
I wa well impressed by some of the water cooled 1906s - and the rooms with
drums in them.
And the tales of drums which did their bearings then waltzed through the
machine room on their momentum.

64K memory and you ruled the world!

Don't suppose there are many openings for PLAN programmers these days,
though.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would
add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

faceslap ;-


GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Hmm. What I was wondering, if for example, it only added 25p per month to
everyone's contract, surely it would be worth having - the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband

That wont happen, because it's a shared bandwidth system.

and the only other reason to have a POTS line in
places of good cellular coverage is for emergencies.

You're unlikely to have an emergency with no mains power.

Given how high BT land line charges are, it could be a win for a lot of
people.

Yes, but with real downsides because its shared bandwidth.

We have lots offering what they call a naked DSL service,
you don't need a landline POTS service to have DSL.

In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|
scribeth thus
On 28/06/2012 12:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...


I usually do ring the power co

I don't normally bother unless I need some idea about how long it will
be off for.

That is usually a factor since like yesterday we were dropped off grid
at 18.15 just in time to prevent fully cooking dinner.

NEDL have replaced customer service with a voice recognition Dalek that
you have to shout your postcode at several times to get anywhere.

Stupid and stupider;!...


The recorded message was pretty bland in this case. Major electrical
storm serious disruption due to flooding lots of areas down over a wide
area and no idea when they will be back on again. We took a direct hit
possibly to the village hall as the highest point. There was literally a
flash and a bang simultaneously and then no electricity.

Power was still off last night when we gave up about 11pm and as you can
see is back on this morning. Full marks to their engineers!


--
Tony Sayer

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 27/06/2012 19:11, David WE Roberts wrote:

Unless of course the cellular masts and the local telephone exchange
are down, in which case a phone number isn't much use either.


Phone would be OK ... exchanges have their own power .. so analogue POTS
not affected.
3G masts are a different issue.

A lot of them do have battery standby power back up I know of several
round here that do and can't remember a time when Vodafone failed in the
area..

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.


What total failure in the area?..


Never known that to happen here!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Tim Watts
scribeth thus
charles wrote:

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 27/06/2012 19:11, David WE Roberts wrote:

Unless of course the cellular masts and the local telephone exchange
are down, in which case a phone number isn't much use either.


Phone would be OK ... exchanges have their own power .. so analogue POTS
not affected.
3G masts are a different issue.

A lot of them do have battery standby power back up I know of several
round here that do and can't remember a time when Vodafone failed in the
area..

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.


Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

Depends on what type of base station it is a lot of them if sharing with
other users will sometimes have a self start diesel or a battery bank..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would add
to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?

You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.


There are significant aerial gains...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:08:36 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

Wonder what the consumption of a cell tower is - and how much it would
add to my bill to have 2-4 hours worth of battery backup on every one?
You want to personally fund battery backup at all base stations? I
congratulate you on your generosity.

faceslap ;-

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Hmm. What I was wondering, if for example, it only added 25p per month to
everyone's contract, surely it would be worth having - the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only
other reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is
for emergencies.

might be true in the towns, but in the countyside, I can't imaginne
universal 3G. I can just get 3G in a corner of an upstairs bedroom. Was
useful when the chavs cut our landline.

Given how high BT land line charges are, it could be a win for a lot of
people.

at the moment SWMBO share a lineline connection. If the family is larger
then I can't see mobiles winning on cost grounds.

At the moment I pay what rental for a landline I have to (£12 a month
IIRC) and PAYG phonecalls on that and on a VOIP phone. I could have up
to 4 voip phones on separate number and separately charged.If it made sense.

Since line rental is needful for broadband anyway, I just regard it as
part of the bill.



Co-ax cable incomer here;!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:33:39 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

the rate we are
going, 3G/4G is going to outpace landline based broadband and the only
other reason to have a POTS line in places of good cellular coverage is
for emergencies.

might be true in the towns, but in the countyside, I can't imaginne
universal 3G. I can just get 3G in a corner of an upstairs bedroom. Was
useful when the chavs cut our landline.

Despite being on a B road in a flat open valley our 'country retreat'
has no 2G coverage outdoors at ground level, it is just about usable
for texting if you sit right next to one window in the attic, this is
Orange only, the others have zero coverage.

We have to go 6 miles to the nearest towns to get 'normal' 2G
coverage on Vodafone or O2 and some odd bits of 3G with handheld
phones. Locally, ancient phones like the Nokia 6210 / 6310 with
decent RF stages fare much better on 2G than any smartphones, iPhones
are unusable. Old Nokias with a car kit and glass mount aerial fare a
lot better. Analogue ETACS coverage, particularly with a car kit was
ok until Vodafone pulled the plug about 2000 or so.

To get any near 'universal' 3G coverage from the likes of Vodafone /
O2 / Orange or Three needs a trip of 15 miles, I can't see that
changing anytime soon, fortunately wired broadband is available with
good sync speeds albeit only via BT.



Well thats why you have a country retreat to get away from it all isn't
it;?..

As to BT they IIRC don't quite have the universal service remit they
once used to . We have a customer that needs to operate out in the
sticks and they have 3G systems with external aerials that manage to do
the necessary from a 3G site. BT wanted an awful lot of money to run
cables to them.!..
--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:39:11 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

GSM base stations have a variable output with a max of around 20W RF,
not sure what actual power rail consumption is.

Maybe 100W @ 48v call it 2A = 48AHr per day per network. Mr Sayer sent a
photo of a cabinet with batteries they don't look big enough to be 48AHr but
battery technology does vary. They would keep it up for a few hours though.

Indeed but that one is a single network base Dave.

Its nowhere special and the aerial gains are quite high and the powers
are low. I've no reason at all to query what there engineer was telling
me..


The cells around here don't have backup and that includes the ones colocated
with the local TV relay (that doesn't have backup either).

Well its a very remote area your in Dave, just how many people are there
per square mile?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:21:42 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.

What total failure in the area?..

Never known that to happen here!..

Presumably because you have lots of cells available that overlap a lot. A
Vodafone cell was off here for several weeks and as the cells barely overlap,
if at all, quite a number of people were without service(*) all that time.
Quite a fuss locally and only fobbed off with either "no fault" or "it will
be repaired by pick random day/date" from Vodafone customer services.

(*) Well they could drive 4+ miles to towards the next nearest cell and get
service but that's not the point.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 27/06/2012 19:11, David WE Roberts wrote:

Unless of course the cellular masts and the local telephone
exchange are down, in which case a phone number isn't much use
either.


Phone would be OK ... exchanges have their own power .. so analogue
POTS not affected. 3G masts are a different issue.

A lot of them do have battery standby power back up I know of several
round here that do and can't remember a time when Vodafone failed in
the area..

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.


What total failure in the area?..

I was told (by Vodafone's help desk) that if I drove about 5 miles there
was a signal - so I assume an area failure.


Never known that to happen here!..

First time here in 16 years.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:31:25 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Well its a very remote area your in Dave, just how many people are
there per square mile?..

The population of The Moor is about 2100, IIRC The Moor covers an area of
more than 100 sq miles so of the order of 20 on average but most live in the
town and two villages. Outside of those places it'll vary from a household to
none depending on there being a household in a given square mile. At a
guesstimate over 90% of the area will have a population of zero.

But you have probably hit the nail on the head, not enough customers to worry
about from the commercial/cost POV. But out here having reliable
communications is far more important than in an urban area surely? Where
there will be a door you can knock on to make an emergency call.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:31:25 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Well its a very remote area your in Dave, just how many people are
there per square mile?..

The population of The Moor is about 2100, IIRC The Moor covers an area of
more than 100 sq miles so of the order of 20 on average but most live in the
town and two villages. Outside of those places it'll vary from a household to
none depending on there being a household in a given square mile. At a
guesstimate over 90% of the area will have a population of zero.

But you have probably hit the nail on the head, not enough customers to worry
about from the commercial/cost POV. But out here having reliable
communications is far more important than in an urban area surely? Where
there will be a door you can knock on to make an emergency call.

I expect that you manage as you must have done for quite some while now.

OK BT have lines up there but I do know of Two locations in a more
populated area where quotes of around £30K were given for lines to be
installed, they don't have this service obligation anymore to supply
regardless. As do the other utilities IIRC..

So that comes to radio comms. There are Three / Four networks and are
they likely to be all down at once?.

Course the emergency services rely on radio too and they I expect will
be backed up prolly not all the mobile bases will be but I expect some
will.

Have you had any serious problems in the past that you can recall where
life has seriously been put at risk?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:21:42 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.

What total failure in the area?..

Never known that to happen here!..

Presumably because you have lots of cells available that overlap a lot.

Yes some do that..

A
Vodafone cell was off here for several weeks and as the cells barely overlap,
if at all, quite a number of people were without service(*) all that time.
Quite a fuss locally and only fobbed off with either "no fault" or "it will
be repaired by pick random day/date" from Vodafone customer services.

They don't these days seem to be quite the professional business outfit
they once were. What about the other nets?..


(*) Well they could drive 4+ miles to towards the next nearest cell and get
service but that's not the point.


But isn't this a consequence of where you want or choose to live Dave?.
OK I've seen pix over time of there and it is a lovely area, but what
about all the other services, how far to the hospital the doctors the
post etc etc?..

And that snow you seemingly cope with;?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 27/06/2012 19:11, David WE Roberts wrote:

Unless of course the cellular masts and the local telephone
exchange are down, in which case a phone number isn't much use
either.


Phone would be OK ... exchanges have their own power .. so analogue
POTS not affected. 3G masts are a different issue.

A lot of them do have battery standby power back up I know of several
round here that do and can't remember a time when Vodafone failed in
the area..

we had a 3 week failure locally - probably not due to mains, but there
seemed no urgency in getting it back up.


What total failure in the area?..

I was told (by Vodafone's help desk) that if I drove about 5 miles there
was a signal - so I assume an area failure.


Never known that to happen here!..

BT or cable co never been off line at all either;?..

First time here in 16 years.


--
Tony Sayer

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:38:02 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:43:27 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:


I have a couple of LED torches with the switch bridged by a 10M
resistor
so that they glow continuously. That way after dark adaption you can
find them in total darkness. Where I live is seriously dark if the
mains
fails. I have two emergency lights - kitchen and dining room.

That's a dead good idea and I might steal it from you.

Much better to have rechargeable torches that come on auto
when the mains fails. That way they are very easy to find and
you can just unplug it from the charger and use it wherever
you like.

I have one here, never had to use it though as it's at work and if the
power fails it's during daylight. But it's a very good idea, if teh power
fails the torch flashes, whether that makes it easier to located in the
dark I'm not sure but the battery would last longer.

Mine don't flash, they come on at normal brightness,
so they are very easy to find when there is no other light.

I have candles and cigarette lighters in strategic places where they
can always be found without tripping over any furniture on the way.

Makes more sense to keep a torch in the same places.

The last thing I'd want to do in a dark room is try to light a candle :-

Dunno, it isnt that hard, you just use the light from the match to see the
wick etc.

Automatic torch is much better tho.

For a non-smoker I seem to have a lot of cigarette lighters around:
but apart from candle-lighting on power-off days, I use them for
odd jobs in the workshop.

In message , AJH
writes
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:27:35 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

They are under grounding some 11kV overheads through my land this summer
so I will find out:-)

How did you manage that?

Fortuitous!

They are overdue for lattice mast replacement; the rest of the line
already done. Leaving us, they cross the river twice and pass over a
public recreation area before crossing an area of land owned by J.
Sainsbury plc which I expect they would like to develop.

Re-routeing takes them through some elderly Maple trees so underground
is favoured by all concerned.

I understand they will use a duct buried at more than 1m and plan a
185mm2 cable.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , AJH
writes
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:27:35 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

They are under grounding some 11kV overheads through my land this summer
so I will find out:-)

How did you manage that?

Fortuitous!

They are overdue for lattice mast replacement; the rest of the line
already done. Leaving us, they cross the river twice and pass over a
public recreation area before crossing an area of land owned by J.
Sainsbury plc which I expect they would like to develop.

Re-routeing takes them through some elderly Maple trees so underground
is favoured by all concerned.

I understand they will use a duct buried at more than 1m and plan a
185mm2 cable.


yep. That's what they do. don't drive over the joints in a tractor..


regards



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:14:54 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

OK BT have lines up there but I do know of Two locations in a more
populated area where quotes of around £30K were given for lines to be
installed, they don't have this service obligation anymore to supply
regardless. As do the other utilities IIRC..

I don't think any of the other utilties gas electricty or water ever hada
universal service obligation. I don't know if BT still do but it was only
ever for voice anyway if you wanted it for a modem or these days ADSL if
the line worked for voice that was then end of it unless you paid lots of
money...

So that comes to radio comms. There are Three / Four networks and are
they likely to be all down at once?.

When the single power feed to the colocated base stations goes yes.

Course the emergency services rely on radio too and they I expect will
be backed up prolly not all the mobile bases will be but I expect some
will.

They use Airwave as I'm sure you are aware. That I would expect to be
fairly resliant regards backup power etc.

Have you had any serious problems in the past that you can recall where
life has seriously been put at risk?..

Not me personally, as I don't rely on mobiles. I havd ISDN (and UPS for
the TA) and also a POTS line. But when the power is off for anything more
than a couple of hours many people are without communication as they do
rely on their, single network, mobile. If I had to rely on a mobile I'd
have an unlocked handset and SIMs from different netwroks available.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:18:59 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

But isn't this a consequence of where you want or choose to live Dave?.
OK I've seen pix over time of there and it is a lovely area, but what
about all the other services, how far to the hospital the doctors the
post etc etc?..

All those are in the town 2.5 miles away. The hospital has a 24/7/365
"Minor Injuries Unit", They have basic life suppport equipment so if you
could be got there they can at least try and keep you alive. Otherwise
the "1st hour" would be spent waiting for an emrgancy ambulance to drive
in, though during daylight they wouldn't bother and send the Air
Ambulance that is just a few minutes flying time away.

There is a retained fire engine, local "retained" ambulance (though the
health authority want to get rid of it but they have a fight on their
hands).

And that snow you seemingly cope with;?..

Again prepared for it with two snow ploughs, grit supply and snow blower
stationed in the town, it has to be pretty bad for all the local roads to
be blocked for more than an hour or two after a fall, though keeping them
open if the wind is up can be a battle. We can be cut off with only one
route open for a day or two.

BT manage to provide a maintained service during bad weather and power
failures. The mobile networks do not and if a cell fails take weeks to
fix it. If BT can get up here and find the hole in the ground they will
be up fixing faults.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 7/1/2012 8:04 AM, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Not me personally, as I don't rely on mobiles. I havd ISDN (and UPS for
the TA) and also a POTS line. But when the power is off for anything more
than a couple of hours many people are without communication as they do
rely on their, single network, mobile. If I had to rely on a mobile I'd
have an unlocked handset and SIMs from different netwroks available.

And fully-charged extra batteries.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:22:57 -0400, S Viemeister wrote:

And fully-charged extra batteries.

Good point but if power was off for long enough for (even my now
kanckered) mobile battery to be flat the generator would probably have
been dragged out and fired up. Should push come to shove (run out of red
for genny) I could dig out the invertor and charge from the car...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 29/06/2012 10:55, Rod Speed wrote:
Martin Brown wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote

I usually do ring the power co

I don't normally bother unless I need some idea about how long it
will be off for.

That is usually a factor since like yesterday we were dropped off grid
at 18.15 just in time to prevent fully cooking dinner.

Surely that doesn't happen very often, that you get
a power failure in the middle of cooking dinner ?

Actually yes we do see rather more of them than you might like.

Before they replaced the cables, transformer and the main pump the
lights would flicker and dim at about 6.30pm most nights and on a bad
day the whole lot would trip out when a sewage pumping station on the
far end of the same local circuit switched on and momentarily stalled.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 29/06/2012 21:20, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|
scribeth thus
On 28/06/2012 12:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...


I usually do ring the power co

I don't normally bother unless I need some idea about how long it will
be off for.

That is usually a factor since like yesterday we were dropped off grid
at 18.15 just in time to prevent fully cooking dinner.

NEDL have replaced customer service with a voice recognition Dalek that
you have to shout your postcode at several times to get anywhere.

Stupid and stupider;!...

But a lot cheaper to employ than a human.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Martin Brown wrote

I usually do ring the power co

I don't normally bother unless I need some
idea about how long it will be off for.

That is usually a factor since like yesterday we were dropped
off grid at 18.15 just in time to prevent fully cooking dinner.

Surely that doesn't happen very often, that you get
a power failure in the middle of cooking dinner ?

Actually yes we do see rather more of them than you might like.

Before they replaced the cables, transformer and the main pump the
lights would flicker and dim at about 6.30pm most nights and on a bad
day the whole lot would trip out when a sewage pumping station on the
far end of the same local circuit switched on and momentarily stalled.

Most don't actually see that tho. And presumably that didn't see you
without any power to cook dinner with until someone came out and
manually reset it.

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:14:54 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

OK BT have lines up there but I do know of Two locations in a more
populated area where quotes of around £30K were given for lines to be
installed, they don't have this service obligation anymore to supply
regardless. As do the other utilities IIRC..

I don't think any of the other utilties gas electricty or water ever hada
universal service obligation. I don't know if BT still do but it was only
ever for voice anyway if you wanted it for a modem or these days ADSL if
the line worked for voice that was then end of it unless you paid lots of
money...


Well BT have quoted a firm we know of several 10's of £K for putting in
a couple of lines. There're not going to spend a fortune on running
cable several miles for a very small return on the capital cost outlay
anymore..

So that comes to radio comms. There are Three / Four networks and are
they likely to be all down at once?.

When the single power feed to the colocated base stations goes yes.

Is there just the one around there?...

Course the emergency services rely on radio too and they I expect will
be backed up prolly not all the mobile bases will be but I expect some
will.

They use Airwave as I'm sure you are aware. That I would expect to be
fairly resliant regards backup power etc.

Yes I believe thats all in the spec..


Have you had any serious problems in the past that you can recall where
life has seriously been put at risk?..

Not me personally, as I don't rely on mobiles. I havd ISDN (and UPS for
the TA) and also a POTS line. But when the power is off for anything more
than a couple of hours many people are without communication as they do
rely on their, single network, mobile. If I had to rely on a mobile I'd
have an unlocked handset and SIMs from different netwroks available.


IIRC you can make emergency calls from a handset with no SIM in it..

Never tested it tho;!...
--
Cheers
Dave.




--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:18:59 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

But isn't this a consequence of where you want or choose to live Dave?.
OK I've seen pix over time of there and it is a lovely area, but what
about all the other services, how far to the hospital the doctors the
post etc etc?..

All those are in the town 2.5 miles away. The hospital has a 24/7/365
"Minor Injuries Unit",

I thought you said on another post somewhile ago it was some 10 odd
miles into the nearest village or town?..

They have basic life suppport equipment so if you
could be got there they can at least try and keep you alive. Otherwise
the "1st hour" would be spent waiting for an emrgancy ambulance to drive
in, though during daylight they wouldn't bother and send the Air
Ambulance that is just a few minutes flying time away.

;!..

There is a retained fire engine, local "retained" ambulance (though the
health authority want to get rid of it but they have a fight on their
hands).

Health authority?..


And that snow you seemingly cope with;?..

Again prepared for it with two snow ploughs, grit supply and snow blower
stationed in the town, it has to be pretty bad for all the local roads to
be blocked for more than an hour or two after a fall, though keeping them
open if the wind is up can be a battle. We can be cut off with only one
route open for a day or two.

BT manage to provide a maintained service during bad weather and power
failures. The mobile networks do not and if a cell fails take weeks to
fix it. If BT can get up here and find the hole in the ground they will
be up fixing faults.


--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:10:29 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

All those are in the town 2.5 miles away. The hospital has a 24/7/365
"Minor Injuries Unit",

I thought you said on another post somewhile ago it was some 10 odd
miles into the nearest village or town?..

10 miles gets you half way to anywhere else that has more than a village
shop.

There is a retained fire engine, local "retained" ambulance (though
the health authority want to get rid of it but they have a fight on
their hands).

Health authority?..

Well what ever they call themselves this month but of course ambulances
don't come under the local NHS trust foundation or WHY do they... It'll
be NWAS trying to get rid of it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:07:48 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

I don't think any of the other utilties gas electricty or water ever
hada universal service obligation. I don't know if BT still do but it
was only ever for voice anyway if you wanted it for a modem or these
days ADSL if the line worked for voice that was then end of it unless
you paid lots of money...

Well BT have quoted a firm we know of several 10's of £K for putting in
a couple of lines. There're not going to spend a fortune on running
cable several miles for a very small return on the capital cost outlay
anymore..

A firm, so business lines? and note the plural. Assuming the universal
service applies to business lines (and it might not) then they could
probably get a single residental voice line for the fixed fee but the
other lines would be "at cost".

So that comes to radio comms. There are Three / Four networks and are
they likely to be all down at once?.

When the single power feed to the colocated base stations goes yes.

Is there just the one around there?...

Single cell site, hosts the four networks, single mains feed to said
site. There are a couple of other single network cells, one of which is
in a neighbouring valley so can't "see" it, this is the one that was down
for several weeks.

IIRC you can make emergency calls from a handset with no SIM in it..

I believe so as well but not tried it either for obvious reasons. But I
can't call the DNO to find out when the power mightebe back without a
valid SIM, assuming that the local cell has power...

--
Cheers
Dave.