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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: But the better handling FWD cars also have decent rear suspension. Right, but doing whatever you are doing right is far more important than which general setup you pick. Even longitudinal leaf springs with a live axle done right can work well on reasonably smooth surfaces. High unsprung weight only matters on bad surfaces, which unfortunately seems to prevail these days. No suspension at all can work quite well on a smooth surface. Yes. However, that kind of perfection is not required for a longitudinal leaf springs with a live axle done right rear suspension to be effective. They do loose traction on rough roads, badly. For example people like to **** on FWD cars with simple trailing arms and a beam axle at the rear. However the beam axle is unsurpassed for keeping the wheels near vertical to the pavement which is very important for developing maximum cornering force. A beam axle keeps the wheels parallel to each other, but that's about all. That's why you need to be careful with how you do the trailing arms. Its all about things like roll center. Pick that right and the not only will the wheels be parallel to each other, they will be perpendicular to the pavement. Hitting those two goals goes a long way towards good cornering. Most of the rest of the discussion then becomes about fore/aft balance of which a great deal relies on the front suspension. With body roll - and in practice all cars do this - the important thing is to get the relationship between the wheel taking the load and the pavement correct. Agreed. Which a beam axle is poor at. Disagreed. If the wheels are not powered, unsprung weight can be kept low. Get the trailing arm geometry right which is often done, and you have a nice vehicle - stable but still adequately nimble. The gold standard is upper and lower control arms, but that soup gets ****ed in at least as often as it is done right. ;-) Many compromises come when encroachments on the passengers and luggauge are to be avoided. That is true. But it can be done. So can the two variants of the beam axle we've discussed. I've owned vehicles that handled well on even rough roads with unpowered beam axle/trailing arm rear suspensions. Just because someone screws up a car, doesn't mean that every technology it embodies is inherently flawed. yeah. You should try an XJS with a bent kingpin.. makes nonsense of a double wishbone -- To people who know nothing, anything is possible. To people who know too much, it is a sad fact that they know how little is really possible - and how hard it is to achieve it. |
#42
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:32:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Yes. However, that kind of perfection is not required for a longitudinal leaf springs with a live axle done right rear suspension to be effective. They do loose traction on rough roads, badly. In the late 60s and early 70s, Ford Escorts with precisely that setup were unbeatable in rallying. All they added for the rally cars was a second parallel longitudinal link, and a Watts linkage for transverse location. Gas dampers by Bilstein completed the setup. d |
#43
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
In message , Arny Krueger
writes: [] Its all about things like roll center. Pick that right and the not only will [] That reminds me of one of the royal state coaches - one of the big ones, that only comes out on very special occasions, that has a roughly spherical body, on long curly suspension to big wheels fore and aft; apparently though magnificent to look at, it's not popular with the royals because it rolls and wallows like - well, something nautical. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf a little bit of me still feels that some southerners think we northerners are issued at birth with doomed kestrels. - Alison Graham, Radio Times, 3-9/11/2007. |
#44
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: Yes. However, that kind of perfection is not required for a longitudinal leaf springs with a live axle done right rear suspension to be effective. They do loose traction on rough roads, badly. In the late 60s and early 70s, Ford Escorts with precisely that setup were unbeatable in rallying. All they added for the rally cars was a second parallel longitudinal link, and a Watts linkage for transverse location. But that was a long time ago, when no comparable RWD car had decent IRS anyway. But what works well for sport isn't necessarily best for road work. -- *Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#45
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
On 09/04/12 14:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Jaguar showed in the '60s that decent independant rear suspension could be made for a medium priced car. It took BMW (and others) 30 years to work out how to do the same. This has gone very off topic, but it's available in cheaper cars too. Ford have been fitting independent rear suspension to the Focus since it came out in 1998. VW have since followed suit with the Golf. Honda appear to have gone backwards, as the current Civic does not have independent rear suspension but the previous generation did. |
#46
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Passing of an Iconic amp maker;(...
In article ,
funkyoldcortina wrote: Jaguar showed in the '60s that decent independant rear suspension could be made for a medium priced car. It took BMW (and others) 30 years to work out how to do the same. This has gone very off topic, but it's available in cheaper cars too. Ford have been fitting independent rear suspension to the Focus since it came out in 1998. VW have since followed suit with the Golf. Honda appear to have gone backwards, as the current Civic does not have independent rear suspension but the previous generation did. What works reasonably well on a FWD car is no real guide as regards a RWD. -- *It was all so different before everything changed. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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