A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?

Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:49:22 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

How carefully?

In message , Jules Richardson
writes
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:49:22 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

How carefully?

Well it was too late for real Rock and Roll so they tend to be roughly
circular groups from couples in close clinches.

I had considered *steaming* and then sanding but it has been carpeted
and not seen for 45 years.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:49:22 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

How carefully?

....and why we're you wearing stilettos?

Tim

In message
-septemb
er.org, Tim writes
Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:49:22 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:
Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

How carefully?

...and why we're you wearing stilettos?

:-)

Chisel points and winkle pickers were fashionable around then:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

I used 4" grid IIRC


Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?

Yes. I used 60mm of polystyremne and it wasn't really enough with
hindsight and the price of oil..



Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?


Nope.

regards


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.
Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but
uncertainties remain:-)
Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does
it require BR consent?
Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub
base, insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might
endanger existing wall foundations are concessions available? There
are unlikely to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed
around 1900 so could the hardcore be reduced?
ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing
mesh. What size?

I used 4" grid IIRC


Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm
of Celotex?

Yes. I used 60mm of polystyremne and it wasn't really enough with
hindsight and the price of oil..

OK.

Somebody mentioned issues with aluminium foil in contact with cement.
Presumably plastic sheet gets round this.

Is 65mm screed sufficient?

regards
--
Tim Lamb

On Mar 7, 9:00*am, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes





Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.
*Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but
uncertainties *remain:-)
*Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does
it *require BR consent?
*Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub
base, *insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might
endanger *existing wall foundations are concessions available? There
are unlikely *to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed
around 1900 so *could the hardcore be reduced?
*ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing
mesh. *What size?

I used 4" grid IIRC

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm
of *Celotex?

Yes. I used 60mm of polystyremne and it wasn't really enough with
hindsight and the price of oil..

OK.

Somebody mentioned issues with aluminium foil in contact with cement.
Presumably plastic sheet gets round this.

There is special cheap plastic film for this purpose but you can use
DPM if you have excess of it.

Is 65mm screed sufficient?
Screed is not slab. Screed is the finishing surface layer on top of
the slab, various sorts.

Depends on the size of the slab. 100mm is more usual in domestic
buildings.

On Mar 6, 10:49*pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?

Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

regards
--
Tim Lamb


You can buy special under floor insulation with slots for the heating
pipes,saves a lot of work.
You need to be sure the insulation is suitable for under concrete use,
some of it is not crush proof.

I have 100mm of insulation under my floor. The cost difference is
minimal compared with the total. Also important, it will be the
warmest place in the room so warrenting most insulation.
DPM goes under the insulation. If the insulation is foil faced,it
needs plastic film (on top) to preserve foil from concrete corroding
it.

MOST IMPORTANT.
You need an insulation "upstand" (25mm thick) all the way round the
slab up the walls. It shouldbe high enough to meet the skirting.
(Skirting covers it from sight.) This goes in first, floor insulation
keeps it in place until concreted in.
They make stuff specially for this.

This allows the slab to expand when heated up


Also prevents thermal bridge into the ground round the rooms
perimeter.

If you are worried about the wall footings, dig a test hole before
making any expensive decisions.

In message
,
harry writes


You can buy special under floor insulation with slots for the heating
pipes,saves a lot of work.

How do you organise spiral pipe layouts or is it a grid? I have used the
plastic *egg shell* sheets supplied by Polypipe and think they are worth
avoiding.

You need to be sure the insulation is suitable for under concrete use,
some of it is not crush proof.

Yes.

I have 100mm of insulation under my floor. The cost difference is
minimal compared with the total. Also important, it will be the
warmest place in the room so warrenting most insulation.
DPM goes under the insulation. If the insulation is foil faced,it
needs plastic film (on top) to preserve foil from concrete corroding
it.
OK but is corroded aluminium a hugely bad thing?

MOST IMPORTANT.
You need an insulation "upstand" (25mm thick) all the way round the
slab up the walls. It shouldbe high enough to meet the skirting.
(Skirting covers it from sight.) This goes in first, floor insulation
keeps it in place until concreted in.
They make stuff specially for this.

Yes.

This allows the slab to expand when heated up


Also prevents thermal bridge into the ground round the rooms
perimeter.

If you are worried about the wall footings, dig a test hole before
making any expensive decisions.

The middle room has a suspended floor so I can look under there. The
original construction is mixed; mostly 4" pine studwork on dwarf walls,
gable wall 9" red brick but there are later bits of 9" brick infill.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On 07/03/2012 09:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
OK but is corroded aluminium a hugely bad thing?

I believe the foil is there to reduce the difusion of gas from the
bubbles in the foam preventing the outer faces losing some of their
insulative property with time. So best to try and keep foil face in good
condition for as long as possible I guess.

Pete
--
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/boxing-equipment/ Boxing stuff and more

In message , www.GymRatZ.co.uk
writes
On 07/03/2012 09:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
OK but is corroded aluminium a hugely bad thing?

I believe the foil is there to reduce the difusion of gas from the
bubbles in the foam preventing the outer faces losing some of their
insulative property with time. So best to try and keep foil face in good
condition for as long as possible I guess.

Ah! That makes sense. Condensation on the slab is something else to
avoid.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , www.GymRatZ.co.uk
writes
On 07/03/2012 09:56, Tim Lamb wrote:
OK but is corroded aluminium a hugely bad thing?

I believe the foil is there to reduce the difusion of gas from the
bubbles in the foam preventing the outer faces losing some of their
insulative property with time. So best to try and keep foil face in good
condition for as long as possible I guess.

Ah! That makes sense. Condensation on the slab is something else to avoid.


I believe what he said is total nonsense. The foil is a vapour barrier
and to add a bit of strength that's all - cheapens the cost of
insulating walls and ceilings

With floors you lay a poly barrier anyway, so its totally redundant.
Poly insulation doesn't use foil and that's explicitly for flooring use.

if you have UFH condensation in the floor is the last place it will
happen - except maybe in summer where it may JUST be the coldest place.

But IME the insulation means its no colder than the walls and it stays
warmer better than windows at night, due to the screed mass.


regards



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Mar 6, 10:49*pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?

Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

regards
--
Tim Lamb


R value is indeed reciporcal of U value. U values are easiest to get
your head around.
Wood flooring blocks are fine for my stove, send them round. :-)
http://www.combustionresearch.com/In...ec/uvalue.html

On 06/03/2012 22:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Don't see why you can't do it on a Building Notice - you can do most
things. It's best to go and have a word with your local friendly BCO
before you get very far. That way, you'll find out what issues they're
likely to be interested in.

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

Discuss with your BCO.

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

The plumber who in stalled our UFH used some strips with slots to hook
the pipes into - like this: http://www.mills37.plus.com/UFH.JPG

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?


It's very desirable to use 100mm - especially if you use engineered wood
flooring above the screed. Anything which conducts heat less well than
screed and ceramic tiles will mean that the water will have to be warmer
than otherwise in order to get sufficient heat into the room - thus
increasing the heat loss *downwards* into the ground.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 06/03/2012 22:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Don't see why you can't do it on a Building Notice - you can do most
things. It's best to go and have a word with your local friendly BCO
before you get very far. That way, you'll find out what issues they're
likely to be interested in.

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

Discuss with your BCO.

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

The plumber who in stalled our UFH used some strips with slots to hook
the pipes into - like this: http://www.mills37.plus.com/UFH.JPG

I see. Ta. Polypipe push for laying the pipe in a double helix to reduce
the temperature differential across the room. (return pipe next to inlet
pipe).

Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?


It's very desirable to use 100mm - especially if you use engineered
wood flooring above the screed. Anything which conducts heat less well
than screed and ceramic tiles will mean that the water will have to be
warmer than otherwise in order to get sufficient heat into the room -
thus increasing the heat loss *downwards* into the ground.

OK.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 06/03/2012 22:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?

Don't see why you can't do it on a Building Notice - you can do most
things. It's best to go and have a word with your local friendly BCO
before you get very far. That way, you'll find out what issues they're
likely to be interested in.

Where necessary excavation depth to install hardcore, concrete sub base,
insulation, flooring screed and engineered timber floor might endanger
existing wall foundations are concessions available? There are unlikely
to be putrescible materials under a floor constructed around 1900 so
could the hardcore be reduced?

Discuss with your BCO.

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

The plumber who in stalled our UFH used some strips with slots to hook
the pipes into - like this: http://www.mills37.plus.com/UFH.JPG

I see. Ta. Polypipe push for laying the pipe in a double helix to reduce
the temperature differential across the room. (return pipe next to inlet
pipe).


Look all the pipe retainers do is to hold the pipe steady so you can
pressurise the loops and lay the screed without them shifting. My floors
were large enough to make rebar mesh advisable so I tie wrapped to that.
It was very cheap!

If you dont need rebar almost anything will work.

The proprietary systems make the work go fast for commercial layers of
screed, but in a DIY context yuu could make staples out of bits of coat
hanger and use that just as well.


One thing is worth saying - I went for 4" spacing. It works, but its
very slow to get the room warm. Where I have pipes at 2" or less spacing
in corridors its far greater heating effect.

So don't skimp on pipe.

IIRC its about 100W/sq meter at 4" 150W at 3" and 200W/sq m at 2"
spacing. with sane water temperatures.

Since you probably have a separate circulation pump, feed that from a
separate master stat for the UFH, and if that's not a smart stat, time
the UFH several hours ahead of the main CH.




Is *R* value the reciprocal of *U* value and do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?


It's very desirable to use 100mm - especially if you use engineered
wood flooring above the screed. Anything which conducts heat less well
than screed and ceramic tiles will mean that the water will have to be
warmer than otherwise in order to get sufficient heat into the room -
thus increasing the heat loss *downwards* into the ground.

OK.

regards



--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 06/03/2012 10:49 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?


You could just get on with it ... thousands have.

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

No need for that ..

If you are putting down celotex (or similar), you can simply clip pipes
to insulation.
System I used had little plastic bards .. which pushed into insulation
and pipes clipped into bars.

Vital - repeat Vital ... you need at least 75mm cover of screed, and it
needs to be fibre reinforced screed ... order it as such, or order
fibrin to add if mixing yourself.

Also fit 25-30mm thick insulation vertically at all perimeter .. gives
an expansion point, plus stops heat leakage at edge.

I wrote a large piece on UFH for SelfBuld FAQ .. PM me if you want any
details.


I would never build another house without UFH .... it really is very good.


Make sure you do your homework about coverings ... (again in FAQ) you
need to spec the right materials to make sure you don't end up blocking
heat transfer.

In message , Rick
writes
On 06/03/2012 10:49 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?


You could just get on with it ... thousands have.

I'm waiting a comment from Hugo:-)

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

No need for that ..

Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.

If you are putting down celotex (or similar), you can simply clip pipes
to insulation.
System I used had little plastic bards .. which pushed into insulation
and pipes clipped into bars.

Vital - repeat Vital ... you need at least 75mm cover of screed, and it
needs to be fibre reinforced screed ... order it as such, or order
fibrin to add if mixing yourself.

OK. Polypipe specify a minimum of 65mm.

Also fit 25-30mm thick insulation vertically at all perimeter .. gives
an expansion point, plus stops heat leakage at edge.

I wrote a large piece on UFH for SelfBuld FAQ .. PM me if you want any
details.


I would never build another house without UFH .... it really is very good.


Make sure you do your homework about coverings ... (again in FAQ) you
need to spec the right materials to make sure you don't end up blocking
heat transfer.

The plan so far is engineered wood, possibly 18mm. I suspect that, faced
with a huge expanse of bare wood, bits of rug will get scattered about.

So working down we have 18mm wood + 75mm screed + 100mm PIR foam + 100mm
concrete base + ?? hardcore.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Mar 8, 9:12*pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.

You using a mixer?
Get a quote on pumped delivery... you will age otherwise :-)
Open window, pump it in, then notice it is the wrong room but you had
a Saniflo in there anyway so no harm done.

If adding fibre reinforcement by hand to a mixer, make sure they mix
properly rather than gloop together. The fibre is re thermal cycling,
and the foam around the edge re expansion and thermal dam.

In message
,
js.b1 writes
On Mar 8, 9:12*pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.

You using a mixer?
Get a quote on pumped delivery... you will age otherwise :-)
Open window, pump it in, then notice it is the wrong room but you had
a Saniflo in there anyway so no harm done.

Concrete will be run in directly. The window locations lend themselves
to simply backing the lorry up tight.

If adding fibre reinforcement by hand to a mixer, make sure they mix
properly rather than gloop together. The fibre is re thermal cycling,
and the foam around the edge re expansion and thermal dam.

For sand/cement/fibre screed, mixed elsewhere and tipped for barrowing
to job (patio door opening).

Just had a budget quote for 5K; materials plus labour. Supply and
compact sand blinded hardcore, supply and lay 100mm concrete on DPC
membrane, supply and fit 100mm insulation board, supply and lay 75mm
screed. Digging out, plumbing, skirting and making good by others. 3
linked rooms totalling 52m2.

They estimate 6 weeks for screed to dry naturally.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

skirting and making good by others. 3
linked rooms totalling 52m2.

They estimate 6 weeks for screed to dry naturally.


Make sure pipes are pressurized during laying .. and don't be tempted to
use UFH to dry the screed.
The drying rate is about week per inch of thickness ...

2 good piece of advise .. 48 Hrs after it is laid, soak the surface from
a watering can, then again 48 Hrs after that ... it's a chemical
reaction to set that needs water.

After it was fully cured, I then surface treated mine with a hardener &
ant-dusting solution

On 08/03/2012 9:40 PM, js.b1 wrote:
On Mar 8, 9:12 pm, Tim wrote:
Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.

You using a mixer?
Get a quote on pumped delivery... you will age otherwise :-)
Open window, pump it in, then notice it is the wrong room but you had
a Saniflo in there anyway so no harm done.

If adding fibre reinforcement by hand to a mixer, make sure they mix
properly rather than gloop together. The fibre is re thermal cycling,
and the foam around the edge re expansion and thermal dam.

Not in my case .... screeder didn't want a pump ... screed was
delivered by the skip load, (4 skip loads in fact) barrowed in and laid
....
Did it on 2 Saturdays.

It came with retarder & fibre already mixed in, I was amazed how fast he
laid the stuff.

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Rick
writes
On 06/03/2012 10:49 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
A time slot has opened (August/September) to rip out the existing
Victorian flooring and move to the 21st. century.

Various aspects have been covered in earlier threads but uncertainties
remain:-)

Can this sort of work be covered by a simple building notice or does it
require BR consent?


You could just get on with it ... thousands have.

I'm waiting a comment from Hugo:-)

ISTR TNP mentioning securing plastic piping to steel reinforcing mesh.
What size?

No need for that ..

Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.

If you are putting down celotex (or similar), you can simply clip
pipes to insulation.
System I used had little plastic bards .. which pushed into insulation
and pipes clipped into bars.

Vital - repeat Vital ... you need at least 75mm cover of screed, and
it needs to be fibre reinforced screed ... order it as such, or order
fibrin to add if mixing yourself.

OK. Polypipe specify a minimum of 65mm.

Also fit 25-30mm thick insulation vertically at all perimeter .. gives
an expansion point, plus stops heat leakage at edge.

I wrote a large piece on UFH for SelfBuld FAQ .. PM me if you want any
details.


I would never build another house without UFH .... it really is very
good.


Make sure you do your homework about coverings ... (again in FAQ) you
need to spec the right materials to make sure you don't end up
blocking heat transfer.

The plan so far is engineered wood, possibly 18mm. I suspect that, faced
with a huge expanse of bare wood, bits of rug will get scattered about.

So working down we have 18mm wood + 75mm screed + 100mm PIR foam + 100mm
concrete base + ?? hardcore.

regards

Pretty much what I have. gets jolly hot under the rugs and even hotter
under the sofas..

I emphasise: I needed mesh to make the screed stringer over quite large
areas, there is no need on smaller areas especially if the screed is
fibre reinforced.

However it represents a useful and strong way to hold pipes in place.
tie wraps are very quick and very cheap and so is rebar mesh.

So its up to you what you use.

I still also say that foiling two sides of an open foam but not the
edges will do zilch for outgassing.

Its for mechanical strength and a vapour barrier and is a positive
detriment in concrete, which is why they used to use extruded high
density polystryene sheet instead.




--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Rick
writes

snip
don't end up blocking heat transfer.

The plan so far is engineered wood, possibly 18mm. I suspect that,
faced with a huge expanse of bare wood, bits of rug will get
scattered about.
So working down we have 18mm wood + 75mm screed + 100mm PIR foam +
100mm concrete base + ?? hardcore.
regards

Pretty much what I have. gets jolly hot under the rugs and even hotter
under the sofas..

I emphasise: I needed mesh to make the screed stringer over quite large
areas, there is no need on smaller areas especially if the screed is
fibre reinforced.


However it represents a useful and strong way to hold pipes in place.
tie wraps are very quick and very cheap and so is rebar mesh.

So its up to you what you use.

A decision for later.

I still also say that foiling two sides of an open foam but not the
edges will do zilch for outgassing.

Its for mechanical strength and a vapour barrier and is a positive
detriment in concrete, which is why they used to use extruded high
density polystryene sheet instead.

I have used a bandsaw (cough splutter) to reduce the thickness and find
it bends unpredictably.

A bit of polythene over the top seems a very cheap precaution.

Moving on.... we come to sourcing the low temperature water when the
rest of the house remains on radiators.

A Rolls Royce job would incorporate heat from the existing log burner.
At the risk of exciting DD a thermal store seems more attractive than
the Dunsley neutraliser set up. Excess heat on the gravity circuit might
be problematic though.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

In message , AJH
writes
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:25:04 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

Moving on.... we come to sourcing the low temperature water when the
rest of the house remains on radiators.

You don't the injector does it for you from the standard heating
system, it just combines a bit of the hot water with some of the
underfloor water loop, passing the remainder to the boiler return.

er.. brain cells running slowly.

Roomstat or three bringing on zone valve for underfloor and starting
boiler. Pump plus temp. control valve magically blend water from the
heating hot side with... ?

I note Polypipe offer a design service.

A Rolls Royce job would incorporate heat from the existing log burner.
At the risk of exciting DD a thermal store seems more attractive than
the Dunsley neutraliser set up.

A neutraliser works like a miniature vented thermal store so no reason
why the inverse wouldn't work and little more expensive.

Yes. A concern is temperature overshoot during a a power failure with an
unattended hot log burner. The convenient place for the thermal store is
on the second floor. A gravity fed heat sink would probably be in the
loft!

regards

--
Tim Lamb

However it represents a useful and strong way to hold pipes in place.
tie wraps are very quick and very cheap and so is rebar mesh.



In my case the system specifically stated that using a mesh would
invalidate the guarantee, I asked why, and they said they have known of
pipe failures where it has been in contact with rebar

If it's not a full system purchase, then you have no worries over
warranty, and can do what you like.

On 08/03/2012 9:12 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Rick
writes
..

Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.


What we did was work into room a 'runway' or screed covering the pipes
and barrowed over that, didn't have any pipes dislodged of clips come away.

In message , Rick
writes
On 08/03/2012 9:12 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Rick
writes
.

Umm.. It seems to add a lot more wheelbarrow proofing than plastic
barbed clips.


What we did was work into room a 'runway' or screed covering the pipes
and barrowed over that, didn't have any pipes dislodged of clips come
away.

Access is via the end of three rooms in line. I don't know if they could
do it in one hit. Scaffold boards and a bit of softening otherwise.

regards



--
Tim Lamb

In message , AJH
writes
On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 22:49:22 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

do I really need 100mm of
Celotex?

BCO approved 50mm and a 50mm screed ( with added fibres) for our
office refurb. I just pushed plastic clips into the celotex for the
polypipe, depth wasn't a problem as the pre existing concrete floor
was still well below the original 1860 suspended floor level.

Hmm.. I'm restricted in needing to match finished levels to other later
construction. There is a 4" step between two of the three rooms and I
wonder if they have also stepped the foundations.

Does anyone want some pitch pine flooring blocks carefully indented with
stiletto heel marks from my 21st. birthday party?

They'll keep you warm for a while.

Huh! I'm not clogging up my chimney with bitumen.

regards
--
Tim Lamb