Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mar 4, 10:09*pm, Bob Eager wrote:
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

Well IBM's future, one reason why Warren Buffett is buying, is the
replacement of IT head count by increasingly automated smart systems.
First was the relocation of anything on an RJ45 to the lowest cost
labour area, next will be relocation to self managing systems - the
whole point of their Service Provider strategy.

On that basis, PIC development, process engineering etc is perhaps a
better target. Plenty of people can do Mech Eng. Plenty of people can
do Elec Eng. The real money as a contractor is when you can do even
basic process-eng, CAD, network of lasercutting & fab, delivering a
single point solution re hardware & software combined. Bypasses the
recruitment agency turds.

That apart, the future is applets, which changes the environment. It
dis-intermediates out software companies paying themselves £60,000/yr
driving a 911 and employing people at £4-8/hr, instead a simple Blade
Runner world website provides the applet and Notification Of Payment
Received arrives in the programmers inbox with zero reproduction cost.
It is therefore about creating sustainable revenue streams for the
telecoms industry... someone has to pay the BT Human Resources
Psychometric Obsessed Imbeciles after all.

Then again.. it could be a ruse to create more Government IT Project
bods... frightening... turn them all off!

Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...


a micro low power NAS


-

On 04/03/2012 22:10, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX


All of that I can do with a nicely cased repurposed thin client PC. And
there are thousands of those scrapped at prices next to nothing.

I think (but hope not) a number of them are destined to a place in a
lonely drawer shared with long lost dusty socks and broken iPods...

--
Adrian C

On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.
The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:36:20 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

On 04/03/2012 22:10, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX


All of that I can do with a nicely cased repurposed thin client PC. And
there are thousands of those scrapped at prices next to nothing.

of which I have several but they are watt graspers unlike the pi - already
have 3 lower power media players, a low power NAS - home monitoring server
with internet access .........

--
(º€¢.¸(¨*€¢.¸ ¸.€¢*¨)¸.€¢Âº)
.€¢Â°€¢. Nik .€¢Â°€¢.
(¸.€¢Âº(¸.€¢Â¨* *¨€¢.¸)º€¢.¸)

In message , Bob Eager
writes
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...


You know that table that was never quite stable ...


--
geoff

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:38:29 +0000, Rick wrote:

On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks
I am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.
The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

Well, the RP has a quarter of a gigabyte of memory and a reasonably
powerful CPU. And a place to attach keyboard, mouse and display. So it's
a bit more than a development board.




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 4 Mar 2012 22:09:32 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

Angle grinder speed controler, duct tape/WD40 dispenser, combi boiler
quantity calculator.

--

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

It's still boggling my brain how many people seem to have bought one and
have absolutely no clue what they're actually going to do with it. Was
the marketing hype really *that* good?

On 05/03/2012 00:23, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

It's still boggling my brain how many people seem to have bought one and
have absolutely no clue what they're actually going to do with it. Was
the marketing hype really *that* good?


Well, start here.... first we need a case.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290677470826

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300673071877

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180833083409

--
Adrian C

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 00:30:15 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

On 05/03/2012 00:23, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks
I am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

It's still boggling my brain how many people seem to have bought one
and have absolutely no clue what they're actually going to do with it.
Was the marketing hype really *that* good?


Well, start here.... first we need a case.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290677470826

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300673071877

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180833083409

Oh, I know of plenty of good ideas. Just thought it would be a good
discussion here.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:38:29 +0000, Rick wrote:

On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks
I am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.
The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

Well, the RP has a quarter of a gigabyte of memory and a reasonably
powerful CPU. And a place to attach keyboard, mouse and display. So it's
a bit more than a development board.

It maybe needs something like this to make it a decent toy -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Serial...item483c978fbc

On 05/03/2012 00:23, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

It's still boggling my brain how many people seem to have bought one and
have absolutely no clue what they're actually going to do with it. Was
the marketing hype really *that* good?

Or is the price simply that low? It's almost disposable - so why not get
one then worry about what to do with it?

(yes, I know the answer - it adds to the house full of crap, which is
why I won't be getting one till I think of something useful :-) )

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this machine is. Low cost? Once
you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?), it won't be
far from the cost of a netbook. (Edit: just seen that it plugs into a TV.
Still, you need a spare TV...)

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used to
build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

--
Bartc

"BartC" wrote in message ...


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this machine is. Low cost? Once
you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?), it won't be
far from the cost of a netbook. (Edit: just seen that it plugs into a TV.
Still, you need a spare TV...)

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used to
build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

Yebut, you have to make allowances, t'was "designed" by bods at a Uni, says
it all, really.

On 05/03/2012 00:55, BartC wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this machine is. Low cost? Once
you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?), it won't
be far from the cost of a netbook. (Edit: just seen that it plugs into a
TV. Still, you need a spare TV...)

How about for applications where you don't need a monitor, keyboard,
mouse, extra memory? Think automation, control, robots, etc.

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used
to build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

The cost is probably what's special about it. There's a lot of work in
there, probably a significant amount being negotiation rather than
simply technical.

On Mar 4, 10:38*pm, Rick wrote:
On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = *PBX

I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.

Sounds ike one of Acorns earlier efforts, took em on to the BBC Micro
and Risc which brings full circle to the RP...

The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

Which involved half a day of typing to shoot a full stop from an
inverted V at traveling X`s...

If you were lucky had a C2N or , now highly collectable small keyboard
PET with the built in cassette drive, the seriously rich had the 8"
shugart floppy.


I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

Been a while since you looked at current dev kits, Arduino has taken
off in a big way, with even GUI based programming methods aimed at the
under 10`s, getting a stepper motor moving is a plug in` shield` and
bolt together `sketch` of code...

Rasperry PI has onboarrd keyboard mouse and probably crucially HDMI
out, it costs the same as cheap video card but has the rest of the
P.C. attached, can see it gaining big traction in markets where
networked screens are used...

Extra I/O in similar format is an obvious aftermarket.

Cheers
Adam

On 04/03/2012 22:38, Rick wrote:
On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.
The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

Given that the Pi is not a dev board, does have a full GUI and
everything else one might expect from a functional computer, that does
not seem to be the case here...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/03/2012 00:48, brass monkey wrote:
"Bob wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:38:29 +0000, Rick wrote:

On 04/03/2012 10:10 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks
I am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX



I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around 1981 ..
it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days worth of
coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's chase a
traffic light sequence.
The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more than
once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

Well, the RP has a quarter of a gigabyte of memory and a reasonably
powerful CPU. And a place to attach keyboard, mouse and display. So it's
a bit more than a development board.

It maybe needs something like this to make it a decent toy -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Serial...item483c978fbc

It already has some of that onboard IIRC...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/03/2012 22:09, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

That reminds me, must phone CPC and tell em that I really did want one,
that is why I ordered it!

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

Media streamer would be one obvious one.

Home automation / monitoring and instrumenting would be a nice option.

Souped up lego mindstorm controller

One could no a nice retro system emulation and build the whole thing
into a joystick etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim Streater wrote
Rick wrote
Bob Eager wrote:
Bob Eager wrote

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six
weeks I am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas
about what they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

I remember a similar looking dev board that came out back around
1981 .. it had a built in Hexadecimal keypad... you do a whole days
worth of coding and get a stepper motor to revolve or a set of LED's
chase a traffic light sequence.

The issue was none of the students could be arsed to do this more
than once .... then would rather play with the Commodore pet.

I think that is the problem with Dev board approach, it provides so
little for your effort when you can instead just go use a PC and gui.

I hope the pi doesn't go the way of the Newton. Lots sold in the lead
up to release date and soon after, then next to nothing. I think what
you're describing above will be a problem. The notion that all these
schoolchildren were just waiting for a cheap board to program at the
bit level is a bit silly, in the same league as when years ago they
expected that all women would learn to become car mechanics.

No. I expect some teenagers will get the pi and do some stuff with it. When I was 15 I had a few relays I scrounged
off my brother, who was in the navy, and doing some primitive binary logic with them. I could have done with something
like the pi being available then. Or relays for a penny instead of five bob each.

If people are expecting that lots of pis will be used in this way, why weren't these people already doing it - using
the Arduino?

Mind you, if "computer classes" at schools consists of them being
forced to learn about ****ing Windows and being bored learning to use
Word and Excel, then that is a waste that could usefully be stopped.
[1]

I'd be interested to see what folks think it could be used for, though.

[1] They need a lesson to understand what an OS is, and that there are
others besides Windows. They need two more lessons to understand what
Word and Excel are, and a quick overview of what they do and what they
might be used for. And that there are other programs which perform the
same sort of function. That's it.

Dunno, that gets into the whole area of what schools should be teaching.

You can make a case that if you want people to be able to use
particularly Excel to do useful stuff for themselves, even just at
home etc, they need to do a lot more with it than you propose.

And if you want them to be able to do more than just trivial documents at
work, they certainly need more than you propose with Word too.

After all, what sense does it make that kids leave school after doing the
full time at school, without being able to use something as common as
Word for the sort of thing Word gets used for at work by so many ?

Corse you can certainly make a case that say those who plan to
become plumbers, hair dressers, mechanics etc dont need that,
so you can certainly make a case for being selective about who
needs that in school, but its going to far to claim that no one does.

With what the Pi can do its more complicated. You can certainly
make a case for at least some school kids being able to do stuff
like that, if only to provide something that might lite the fire of
some potential engineers etc.

Certainly it makes no sense to try and ram it down the throats of most kids tho.

But then you can also make a case for teaching quite a bit of DIY in schools
too when so many chose to do stuff like that after they have finished school too.

Kind of reminds me of Uncle clive and his use the zx 81 to control a nuclear
power station ideas.
The point I think is to get people to learn the language of python or
however its spelled. Its very powerful, but not that intuitive like a good
basic could provide to get the kids sucked in.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
On 04/03/2012 22:10, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 22:09:32 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they might do with it/them?

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

PBC = PBX


All of that I can do with a nicely cased repurposed thin client PC. And
there are thousands of those scrapped at prices next to nothing.

I think (but hope not) a number of them are destined to a place in a
lonely drawer shared with long lost dusty socks and broken iPods...

--
Adrian C

Brian Gaff wrote:

Kind of reminds me of Uncle clive and his use the zx 81 to control a
nuclear power station ideas.
The point I think is to get people to learn the language of python or
however its spelled. Its very powerful, but not that intuitive like a good
basic could provide to get the kids sucked in.
Brian


Yep - perl is better for this. Start like BASIC, end up like C.

OK - it's not as clean as python, but it is noth a grat hacking/fiddling
langauge and it *can* easily be made to do more in a clean way (but that
requires discipline).
--
Tim Watts

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 02:01:03 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Media streamer would be one obvious one.

That's the one that fairly quickly entered my head with it having
ethernet and HDMI.

Home automation / monitoring and instrumenting would be a nice option.

I could use something to monitor/control the heat store/DHW/CH/Oil
boiler/Wood stove etc. But I don't think a Pi has enough suitable IO.
An Aurdino probably has enough IO but not at mains so I suspect a
commercial PLC is the less hassle way to go.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 04/03/12 23:43, Tim Streater wrote:


I hope the pi doesn't go the way of the Newton. Lots sold in the lead up
to release date and soon after, then next to nothing. I think what
you're describing above will be a problem. The notion that all these
schoolchildren were just waiting for a cheap board to program at the bit
level is a bit silly, in the same league as when years ago they expected
that all women would learn to become car mechanics.

I'm expecting a system like Puppy Linux to appear, if it doesn't already
exist.


No. I expect some teenagers will get the pi and do some stuff with it.
When I was 15 I had a few relays I scrounged off my brother, who was in
the navy, and doing some primitive binary logic with them. I could have
done with something like the pi being available then. Or relays for a
penny instead of five bob each.

If people are expecting that lots of pis will be used in this way, why
weren't these people already doing it - using the Arduino?

Mind you, if "computer classes" at schools consists of them being forced
to learn about ****ing Windows and being bored learning to use Word and
Excel, then that is a waste that could usefully be stopped. [1]

That's already changing and the teachers who will be teaching computer
science know about the Pi. The BCS has started their Computing At School
project to move things along.


I'd be interested to see what folks think it could be used for, though.

[1] They need a lesson to understand what an OS is, and that there are
others besides Windows. They need two more lessons to understand what
Word and Excel are, and a quick overview of what they do and what they
might be used for. And that there are other programs which perform the
same sort of function. That's it.

It depends on what age they start at. My beef is that the reason why
sixteen year olds need lessons in word-processing is that they didn't
get those lessons at age eight when they would have been more appropriate.


--
Bernard Peek

On 05/03/12 01:56, John Rumm wrote:

There does actually seem to be movement on that listening to recent gov
pronouncements - the suggestion that the ICT curriculum should be vastly
tamed down and proper computing lessons introduced instead. The
stumbling block there however would seem to be how to get the teachers
up to speed.

The Computing At School project is looking for IT professionals who can
give teachers a leg up. Someone who can teach them basic (ahem!) Python,
Java or yer actual BASIC (as in VB.NET.)



--
Bernard Peek

Bernard Peek wrote:
On 04/03/12 23:43, Tim Streater wrote:


I hope the pi doesn't go the way of the Newton. Lots sold in the lead up
to release date and soon after, then next to nothing. I think what
you're describing above will be a problem. The notion that all these
schoolchildren were just waiting for a cheap board to program at the bit
level is a bit silly, in the same league as when years ago they expected
that all women would learn to become car mechanics.

I'm expecting a system like Puppy Linux to appear, if it doesn't already
exist.

Arch Linux is already avaliable, according to the maker's website.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

BartC wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this machine is. Low cost? Once
you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?), it won't
be far from the cost of a netbook. (Edit: just seen that it plugs into a
TV. Still, you need a spare TV...)

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used
to build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

It isn't a computer board. Its custom chips. On a board.

How many chips have you ever designed?


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

John Williamson wrote:

Arch Linux is already avaliable, according to the maker's website.

And Debian, and Fedora ...

I know someone who is building a reprap, and has ordered a Pi, I wonder
if he'll start printing Pi cases?

John Rumm wrote:
On 04/03/2012 22:09, Bob Eager wrote:

Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what they
might do with it/them?

That reminds me, must phone CPC and tell em that I really did want one,
that is why I ordered it!

I've heard of car computers, TV boxes, PBCes as ideas...

Media streamer would be one obvious one.

Home automation / monitoring and instrumenting would be a nice option.

Souped up lego mindstorm controller

One could no a nice retro system emulation and build the whole thing
into a joystick etc.



Could replace all the dials on yer dashboard with one LCD screen, for a
start.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

BartC wrote:
Once you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?),
it won't be far from the cost of a netbook.

But the whole point is that most people *already* *have* a spare
keyboard, mouse, monitor 'cos we never got around to throwing them
away. I needed a spare keybaord the other day and discovered five
in my basement, along with half a dozen plug-in PSUs. Things like
keyboards and monitors are disposable consumables nowadays.

JGH

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:43:39 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

The notion that all these schoolchildren were just waiting for a cheap
board to program at the bit level is a bit silly, in the same league as
when years ago they expected that all women would learn to become car
mechanics.

Down to bit level or even machine code I agree but a *very* broad
understanding understanding of how a PC works

If people are expecting that lots of pis will be used in this way, why
weren't these people already doing it - using the Arduino?

That is an interesting one. The lad has a Lego NXT set, he's built a
couple of things from the book and done the programs for them but
that's about it.

He's recently found a couple of mods for the Minecraft game, he's
attempted to build a 10 bit computer in it, got as far as a handful
of registers and an adder all built with basic logic gates. OK he
found how to construct a latch and 2 bit adder with carry in/out from
the web rather than work it out from first principles but bunging
those modules together to make a 10 bit functional unit he did.
Another mod for Minecraft provides a simple programming language that
can control objects in the Minecraft world. He's designed,
constructed and programmed a 3D printer with that! OK it's only a 4 x
4 x 4 matrix but it does what it is supposed to do.

So why has the NXT essentially sat in its box? When I was his age I
would have killed for an NXT set. Is it the physical building of a
machine? It's very quick to "build" and change stuff in the virtual
Minecraft world both the "machine" and program that controls it.

Mind you, if "computer classes" at schools consists of them being forced
to learn about ****ing Windows and being bored learning to use Word and
Excel, then that is a waste that could usefully be stopped.

Word and Excel do need to be taught, a school leaver these days needs
to be reasonably proficent or they are a rung or three down the
employabilty ladder. Being able to change font/size, understand
header/footer, insert something from excel or an image etc. Just the
basic elements that enables them to produce decent output, this also
extends into pretty much all the other subjects as well, use of
computers to produce work, reports or present experimental results is
everywhere.

Some one said a plumber doesn't need computing skills, not directly
for plumbing maybe but these days running a business completely with
pen and paper is almost impossible(*).

What is missing from the curriculem is anything about PC hardware,
the internal OS workings or application programming. A lesson or
three with some old hardware to examine, doesn't have to be
functional just so the pupils know what a motherboard is what it
does, what a hard drive is and what it looks like inside etc. That
would reduce the fear that most people have when it comes to almost
all technology. The basics of how a PC boots and runs in "black box"
form, the layers within the OS and how they fit togther to produce
what people see and use and some simple programming.
The last is probably the hardest, what do you get pupils to program?

(*) If only because VAT and Tax returns or moving to be online filing
only.

--
Cheers
Dave.

John Rumm wrote:
The stumbling block there however would seem to be how to get the
teachers up to speed.

Employ some computing science teachers instead of typing instructors.

JGH

Rod Speed wrote:
Corse you can certainly make a case that say those who plan to
become plumbers, hair dressers, mechanics etc dont need that,

"You're going to be a plumber, so we're not going to teach you
to read and write".

JGH

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BartC wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they
might do with it/them?

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used to
build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

It isn't a computer board. Its custom chips. On a board.

How many chips have you ever designed?

One. (A simple graphics controller in the 80s, which I then prototyped with
some 120 TTLs and some RAM. But I wasn't happy about it as a product and it
wasn't committed to a gate array chip.)

In this case, they don't seem to be creating anything new, just combining
existing technologies (ARM processor, Broadcom video, Linux OS and so on).
Six years just seems a long time (admittedly some of that will be organising
large-scale production).

--
Bartc

Dave Liquorice wrote
Tim Streater wrote

The notion that all these schoolchildren were just waiting for a
cheap board to program at the bit level is a bit silly, in the same
league as when years ago they expected that all women would
learn to become car mechanics.

Down to bit level or even machine code I agree but a *very*
broad understanding understanding of how a PC works

If people are expecting that lots of pis will be used in this way,
why weren't these people already doing it - using the Arduino?

That is an interesting one. The lad has a Lego NXT set, he's built a
couple of things from the book and done the programs for them but
that's about it.

He's recently found a couple of mods for the Minecraft game, he's
attempted to build a 10 bit computer in it, got as far as a handful
of registers and an adder all built with basic logic gates. OK he
found how to construct a latch and 2 bit adder with carry in/out from
the web rather than work it out from first principles but bunging
those modules together to make a 10 bit functional unit he did.
Another mod for Minecraft provides a simple programming language that
can control objects in the Minecraft world. He's designed,
constructed and programmed a 3D printer with that! OK it's only a 4 x
4 x 4 matrix but it does what it is supposed to do.

So why has the NXT essentially sat in its box? When I was his age
I would have killed for an NXT set. Is it the physical building of a
machine? It's very quick to "build" and change stuff in the virtual
Minecraft world both the "machine" and program that controls it.

Mind you, if "computer classes" at schools consists of them being
forced to learn about ****ing Windows and being bored learning to
use Word and Excel, then that is a waste that could usefully be stopped.

Word and Excel do need to be taught, a school leaver these days needs
to be reasonably proficent or they are a rung or three down the
employabilty ladder. Being able to change font/size, understand
header/footer, insert something from excel or an image etc. Just the
basic elements that enables them to produce decent output, this also
extends into pretty much all the other subjects as well, use of computers
to produce work, reports or present experimental results is everywhere.

Some one said a plumber doesn't need computing skills,

I didnt say that.

not directly for plumbing maybe but these days running a business
completely with pen and paper is almost impossible(*).

Sure, but they dont necessarily need to be that flash at Word and Excel.

What is missing from the curriculem is anything about PC hardware,
the internal OS workings or application programming. A lesson or
three with some old hardware to examine, doesn't have to be
functional just so the pupils know what a motherboard is what it
does, what a hard drive is and what it looks like inside etc.

Is that really much use to most tho ?

That would reduce the fear that most people
have when it comes to almost all technology.

I dont believe thats true with most kids in school.

The basics of how a PC boots and runs in "black box" form,
the layers within the OS and how they fit togther to produce
what people see and use and some simple programming.

I think it makes a lot more sense to concentrate on google, word, excel etc.

The last is probably the hardest, what do you get pupils to program?

And whatever it is, they are most unlikely to ever do any themselves later.

It likely only makes sense to include some VBA in Excel etc.

(*) If only because VAT and Tax returns or moving to be online filing only.

You wouldnt normally use Word or Excel for that,
you'd use a dedicated accounting package etc.

And its more likely to be someone else rather than the plumber personally using that too.

Sure, some stuff like quotes might well be usefully done with
Word and Excel, but not so much with a car mechanic etc.

I really just meant that I'm not sure it makes much sense to be
teaching the complexitys of Word and Excel to everyone in school.
If you tried to do that, you'd likely get lots more kids give up on
school if you do that in the time past compulsory education and
many would be better of doing trade trading and including what
is appropriate for that particular trade in the formal part of the
trade training rather than in the normal secondary schools.

jgharston wrote
Rod Speed wrote

[1] They need a lesson to understand what an OS is, and that there are
others besides Windows. They need two more lessons to understand what
Word and Excel are, and a quick overview of what they do and what they
might be used for. And that there are other programs which perform the
same sort of function. That's it.

Dunno, that gets into the whole area of what schools should be teaching.

You can make a case that if you want people to be able to use
particularly Excel to do useful stuff for themselves, even just at
home etc, they need to do a lot more with it than you propose.

And if you want them to be able to do more than just trivial documents
at work, they certainly need more than you propose with Word too.

After all, what sense does it make that kids leave school after doing the
full time at school, without being able to use something as common as
Word for the sort of thing Word gets used for at work by so many ?

Corse you can certainly make a case that say those who plan to
become plumbers, hair dressers, mechanics etc dont need that,

"You're going to be a plumber, so we're not going to teach you to read and write".

Didnt say anything like that.

It certainly doesnt make any sense to be teaching plumbers pure maths unless they want to do that.

"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 05/03/2012 00:55, BartC wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Since the Raspberry Pi will be with us soon-ish (well, about six weeks I
am told, for mine) does anyone have any interesting ideas about what
they
might do with it/them?

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this machine is. Low cost? Once
you've added a monitor, keyboard, mouse, memory (and a PSU?), it won't
be far from the cost of a netbook. (Edit: just seen that it plugs into a
TV. Still, you need a spare TV...)

How about for applications where you don't need a monitor, keyboard,
mouse, extra memory? Think automation, control, robots, etc.

Sure. But then maybe they don't need 1080p mpeg decoding support, and they
could have saved a few quid of licensing to these Broadcom people or whoever
supplies that technology. And I would have thought there are enough control
boards out there for this sort of stuff (where you use a normal PC for
developing the software then just download it).

I understand this is mainly for kids but are there really many children now
without access to a computer?

And what's special about it that it took six years to develop? (I used
to build prototype computer boards in a week or so.)

The cost is probably what's special about it. There's a lot of work in
there, probably a significant amount being negotiation rather than simply
technical.

Maybe.

--
Bar