We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:40:22 +0000
HarpingOn wrote:

We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and
the hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of
the dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer
skin off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes
from underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The
central heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install
a shower pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11
year old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But
I'd like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for
quotes.

I have a similar project, and we have already had the local plumber
come and take a look. He says to put a pump, with dedicated supplies of
hot and cold, under the tub. There is room behind the false facing of
the tub to hide it. We need a power supply pulled to it, as there is
none anywhere near. And since the weedy shower head/mixer is old and
useless, we would replace that lot anyway.
We don't have a time planned for this yet, so I will be watching your
postings with interest.
--
Davey.

In article ,
HarpingOn writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.

You will get a better shower using a pump, which will almost
certainly work fine with your existing mixer. The hot water
take-off will be from the top of the cylinder. Ideally you
want a Shower Pump Flange fitted in the top so the shower
(see bottom of http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/104.asp),
but this may not be necessary (I don't have one and it works
fine). The cold water feed to the pump should be a separate
pipe from the loft tank, taken lower down the tank than the
feed into the bottom of the hot water cylinder. This is so
if the tank in the loft empties for any reason, it's the hot
water which stops (and the shower goes cold), rather than
the cold water stopping first and the shower burning you.

If you look to price up an electric shower, don't forget to
price up the cable. Often that costs more than the shower.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 19/01/2012 11:37, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In ,
writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.

You will get a better shower using a pump, which will almost
certainly work fine with your existing mixer. The hot water
take-off will be from the top of the cylinder. Ideally you
want a Shower Pump Flange fitted in the top so the shower
(see bottom of http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/104.asp),
but this may not be necessary (I don't have one and it works
fine). The cold water feed to the pump should be a separate
pipe from the loft tank, taken lower down the tank than the
feed into the bottom of the hot water cylinder. This is so
if the tank in the loft empties for any reason, it's the hot
water which stops (and the shower goes cold), rather than
the cold water stopping first and the shower burning you.

If you look to price up an electric shower, don't forget to
price up the cable. Often that costs more than the shower.


+1. Be aware that the budget shower pumps as sold in sheds and Screwfix
for ~£150 may only last a couple of years, but a Stuart Turner (over
£300) will last forever.

On Jan 19, 12:06*pm, Newshound wrote:
On 19/01/2012 11:37, Andrew Gabriel wrote:









In ,
* *writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.


Pump every time.

+1. Be aware that the budget shower pumps as sold in sheds and Screwfix
for ~£150 may only last a couple of years,

Ours has done 8 years so far. £100 "ShowerForce" I think.

We don't have a special flange, just tee'd off the usual hot water
cylinder outlet.

MBQ

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
HarpingOn writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?



you have left out the infinitely better third option

Install a mains pressure hot water tank *anywhere it will fit* and
preferably a water softener as well (replacing scaled up pressurised
tanks is expensive).

Now all your water hot and cold - is at mains pressure, you no longer
need to worry about it, and you no longer have to worry about freezing
header tanks, sticking all valves and floods of water cascading down
through the ceilings.

Most existing installations can be pretty quickly modified to work this
way.

"HarpingOn" wrote in message
...
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite (top
floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin off,
but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver point.
A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central heating
pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?


I fitted a pump some distance from an old Mira mixer and it works fine. The
pump instruction said it should have its own dedicated supply from hot and
cold tanks but I just hooked it in to the existing pipework and it has
worked perfectly for 7 years now.

Some 4 years ago I hooked a second shower in a separate shower room into the
pumped supply. It now runs two showers simultaneously at times with no
bother.

Mike

In article ,
Newshound writes:

+1. Be aware that the budget shower pumps as sold in sheds and Screwfix
for ~£150 may only last a couple of years, but a Stuart Turner (over
£300) will last forever.

Mine's a NewTeam. I think it's original with the house (21 years).
I looked at replacement cost a few years ago and it was £450,
but they seem to have come down to around £300 now. (Fortunately,
the problem turned out not to be the pump, which still works fine.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Jan 19, 2:53*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
* *HarpingOn writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

you have left out the infinitely better third option

Install a mains pressure hot water tank *anywhere it will fit* and
preferably a water softener as well (replacing scaled up pressurised
tanks is expensive).

Now all your water hot and cold - is at mains pressure, you no longer
need to worry about it, and you no longer have to worry about freezing
header tanks, sticking all valves and floods of water cascading down
through the ceilings.

Most existing installations can be pretty quickly modified to work this
way.

What if two showers are in use at the same time? Do you only get half
the flow to each?

We have one mixer plus pump and one integrated pump/mixer. Both can be
used at the same time with no loss of performance (until the little
darlings use up all the hot water).

MBQ


MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jan 19, 2:53 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
HarpingOn writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).
The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).
The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.
As far as I can see, I have two options.
Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.
or...
Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?
you have left out the infinitely better third option

Install a mains pressure hot water tank *anywhere it will fit* and
preferably a water softener as well (replacing scaled up pressurised
tanks is expensive).

Now all your water hot and cold - is at mains pressure, you no longer
need to worry about it, and you no longer have to worry about freezing
header tanks, sticking all valves and floods of water cascading down
through the ceilings.

Most existing installations can be pretty quickly modified to work this
way.

What if two showers are in use at the same time? Do you only get half
the flow to each?

no.

in practice - here at least - it is not possible to operate any of the
showers flat out without flooding the house. So great is the flow rate,
especially on 22mm pipework :-)

It certainly exceeds any pumped showers I have ever used.

The key things are to take a SUBSTANITAL - 22mm or so - feed from the
mains stopcock to the tank and then feed all the other hot and cold from
there.

If feeding two showers via one pipe, make that 22mm.

In practice you wont want to replumb everywhere, but its well worth
making any new bits large bore.

IIRC I have 22mm everywhere except feeds to a single bathroom - those
are 15mm except the master bathroom which has a tropical downpour rather
than a shower.

As long as the sealed tank can be replenished via at least 22mm and the
two showers are not on one long 15mm run, and the mains pressure is not
pathetic, you will be fine.

Even if the above are all not met, you will still be better off than a
header tank and a pump.





We have one mixer plus pump and one integrated pump/mixer. Both can be
used at the same time with no loss of performance (until the little
darlings use up all the hot water).


well yes. The rate at which they will use it up when its got the mains
behind it is even worse. At least a 750 litre tank for a family..


MBQ


MBQ

Would you not need 2 pumps? The gravity feed of hot comes from the top of my
tank, which I whought was normal. The other snag I have is that the cold is
not from the mains, but from the tank that fills the hot tank.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"HarpingOn" wrote in message
...
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite (top
floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin off,
but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver point.
A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central heating
pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.

Hang on a moment though. if we are just using hot water from a cylinder, its
surely going to be smaller than the loft tank and will go cold long before
it can exhaust the loft tank on the cold side.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
HarpingOn writes:
We have a 10 year old weedy gravity fed mixer shower, in the en suite
(top floor).

The top floor contains also the cold water header (in the loft) and the
hot storage tank (airing cupboard, same level as the shower).

The gravity fed mixer is weedy, and after 10 years we're fed up of the
dribble, and want more of a gush. Doesn't have to be ripping yer skin
off, but something with more oomph.

As far as I can see, I have two options.

Take out the existing shower and install an electric one. There is no
electricity supply in the en suite beyond the light, fan and shaver
point. A new supply cable would be needed.

or...

Put in a shower pump for the existing mixer. I think the feed comes from
underneath the hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The central
heating pump is under there. Might be a good place to install a shower
pump too?

Will a pump be compatible with our antideluvian unknown brand 10-11 year
old mixer, or will it blow it to bits?

I agree that neither of these are DIY jobs, not for me anyway. But I'd
like to be as clued up as possible before engaging tradesmen for quotes.

You will get a better shower using a pump, which will almost
certainly work fine with your existing mixer. The hot water
take-off will be from the top of the cylinder. Ideally you
want a Shower Pump Flange fitted in the top so the shower
(see bottom of http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/104.asp),
but this may not be necessary (I don't have one and it works
fine). The cold water feed to the pump should be a separate
pipe from the loft tank, taken lower down the tank than the
feed into the bottom of the hot water cylinder. This is so
if the tank in the loft empties for any reason, it's the hot
water which stops (and the shower goes cold), rather than
the cold water stopping first and the shower burning you.

If you look to price up an electric shower, don't forget to
price up the cable. Often that costs more than the shower.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Brian Gaff wrote:

Hang on a moment though. if we are just using hot water from a cylinder, its
surely going to be smaller than the loft tank and will go cold long before
it can exhaust the loft tank on the cold side.

Depends on how hot the tank stat is set for, and how hot a shower the
O/P likes, I can certainly run out of cold before I run out of hot.

In message , Andy
Burns writes
Brian Gaff wrote:

Hang on a moment though. if we are just using hot water from a cylinder, its
surely going to be smaller than the loft tank and will go cold long before
it can exhaust the loft tank on the cold side.

Depends on how hot the tank stat is set for, and how hot a shower the
O/P likes, I can certainly run out of cold before I run out of hot.

We have a Stuart Turner pump feeding an Aqualisa mixer shower from
conventional tanks.

Initially we had air lock problems and the plumber fitted an Essex?
flange.

Fine for most users but daughters...... its a power shower dad! Got to
feel the water! So they empty the header tank and screw the temperature
setting round full because the water runs cold. We have a huge header
tank as well!

Shaving their legs is my current pet theory.

One day, when I have gathered the tuits, I will fit a second ball valve
to the header.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On 19/01/2012 10:40, HarpingOn wrote:
As far as I can see, I have two options.

Option 3: Tank fed shower with integral pump. Needs a low-power
electric supply, and a feed of low-pressure hot and cold water.

These sort of things:

http://www.mirashowersales.co.uk/pow...ntxsthermo.htm

Andy

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
Hang on a moment though. if we are just using hot water from a cylinder, its
surely going to be smaller than the loft tank and will go cold long before
it can exhaust the loft tank on the cold side.

Due to some unforseen issue (e.g. ball valve stuck closed), the
tank could be almost empty when you start your shower.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:53:16 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
you have left out the infinitely better third option

Surely it's only better if the incoming water pressure is high enough?
Ours rarely reaches as high as 3 bar, so our 'mains pressure' showers are
by no means powerful.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
Would you not need 2 pumps? The gravity feed of hot comes from the top of my
tank, which I whought was normal. The other snag I have is that the cold is
not from the mains, but from the tank that fills the hot tank.

A shower pump is normally a pair of pumps attached to the same motor,
although there are some single pump versions.


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 19/01/2012 18:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hang on a moment though. if we are just using hot water from a cylinder, its
surely going to be smaller than the loft tank and will go cold long before
it can exhaust the loft tank on the cold side.

With a mixer shower you are usually using cold from the cistern for on
side of the shower, and more cold from the cistern to replenish the hot
cylinder. Combine this with a poor refill rate from a traditional ball
valve, and you can quite easily run out of cold before hot.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/01/2012 18:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
Would you not need 2 pumps? The gravity feed of hot comes from the top of my
tank, which I whought was normal. The other snag I have is that the cold is
not from the mains, but from the tank that fills the hot tank.

Shower pumps normally have two impellers - often one one each end of the
motor shaft - so they can pump hot and cold to keep the pressure
balanced at the shower, but without mixing them in advance.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Richard Russell wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:53:16 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
you have left out the infinitely better third option

Surely it's only better if the incoming water pressure is high enough?
Ours rarely reaches as high as 3 bar, so our 'mains pressure' showers
are by no means powerful.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

that's probably because you have a combi.


Deliberately flow restricted so the water comes out slightly more than warm.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:02:53 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
that's probably because you have a combi.

No we haven't, we've got a 32 kW system boiler and (large) hot water
cylinder.

And in any case the less-than-3-bar I mentioned is *static* pressure
measured at the incoming main. Obviously it drops even further once there
is any flow.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

Richard Russell wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:02:53 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
that's probably because you have a combi.

No we haven't, we've got a 32 kW system boiler and (large) hot water
cylinder.

And in any case the less-than-3-bar I mentioned is *static* pressure
measured at the incoming main. Obviously it drops even further once
there is any flow.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

well I calculated the pressure drop of 750 liters an hour through 10
meters of 15mm pipe is about 0.6bar.

So 3 bar is way good enough for flow if you haven't got a restriction in it.

Plenty of people are happy with a header tank in the loft and a shower
on the ground floor. That's about 0.3 bar.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:55:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
well I calculated the pressure drop of 750 liters an hour through 10
meters of 15mm pipe is about 0.6bar. So 3 bar is way good enough for
flow if you haven't got a restriction in it.

I expect you would be right if the incoming pressure remained at 3 bar
when the shower is running, but of course it doesn't. For a start the
static pressure is generally lower than that, then there's more than 50m
of pipe from the company main to our house, then a lot more than 10m
inside the house.

Plenty of people are happy with a header tank in the loft and a shower
on the ground floor. That's about 0.3 bar.

I didn't say we weren't happy with it, indeed the showers are a lot better
than they were in our last (header-tank fed) house. The point I'm making
is that a mains-pressure shower is not necessarily preferable to a pumped
shower, which was your original claim.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 19/01/2012 20:27, Andy Champ wrote:
On 19/01/2012 10:40, HarpingOn wrote:
As far as I can see, I have two options.

Option 3: Tank fed shower with integral pump. Needs a low-power electric
supply, and a feed of low-pressure hot and cold water.

These sort of things:

http://www.mirashowersales.co.uk/pow...ntxsthermo.htm

Andy

Thanks to all for the fascinating discussions.

I'd not seen these things before, Andy, so that's another thing.

Now to get more detail about exactly /what/ needs to be done for the
(now three) options, so I can get some idea about numbers and avoid any
teeth sucking incidents. Or, at least see through them.

Richard Russell wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:55:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
well I calculated the pressure drop of 750 liters an hour through 10
meters of 15mm pipe is about 0.6bar. So 3 bar is way good enough for
flow if you haven't got a restriction in it.

I expect you would be right if the incoming pressure remained at 3 bar
when the shower is running, but of course it doesn't. For a start the
static pressure is generally lower than that, then there's more than 50m
of pipe from the company main to our house,

yes, but if that is 15mm you eed to get it seen to.


then a lot more than 10m
inside the house.


I am not responsible for your inappropriate pipe runs :-)

Plenty of people are happy with a header tank in the loft and a shower
on the ground floor. That's about 0.3 bar.

I didn't say we weren't happy with it, indeed the showers are a lot
better than they were in our last (header-tank fed) house. The point
I'm making is that a mains-pressure shower is not necessarily preferable
to a pumped shower, which was your original claim.


I think it is in almost every case.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

HarpingOn wrote:
On 19/01/2012 20:27, Andy Champ wrote:
On 19/01/2012 10:40, HarpingOn wrote:
As far as I can see, I have two options.

Option 3: Tank fed shower with integral pump. Needs a low-power electric
supply, and a feed of low-pressure hot and cold water.

These sort of things:

http://www.mirashowersales.co.uk/pow...ntxsthermo.htm

Andy

Thanks to all for the fascinating discussions.

I'd not seen these things before, Andy, so that's another thing.

Now to get more detail about exactly /what/ needs to be done for the
(now three) options, so I can get some idea about numbers and avoid any
teeth sucking incidents. Or, at least see through them.

If you can maintain decent flowrates through your mains connected
kitchen cold tap, the expense of a mains pressure tank is very predictable.

Generally around the £1000 mark installed.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:18:24 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
I am not responsible for your inappropriate pipe runs :-)

You do like to make assumptions! It's getting on for 20m *in a straight
line* from where the mains water enters the house to the most distant
shower, and that's without diverting via the hot water cylinder. I can't
see how the total pipe run can possibly be any less than about 30m,
allowing for going around corners. It's not all 15mm though, I think from
the incomer to the cylinder it's 22mm and from the cylinder to the showers
15mm.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/