Old house and a few things are quite bent! In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. So
how could it be done? 20mm is too much to plane etc. I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

On Jan 11, 6:34 pm, GMM wrote:
Old house and a few things are quite bent! In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. So
how could it be done? 20mm is too much to plane etc. I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

I'd go with a power plane unless there are loads of old nails in it
that can't be got out.

20mm will be in the middle only? down to 0 at some points? 20mm is 10
passes with a cheapo 2mm cut power plane..

Jim K

On Jan 11, 6:34*pm, GMM wrote:
Old house and a few things are quite bent! *In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. *Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. *I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. *So
how could it be done? *20mm is too much to plane etc. *I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?


Electric plane? How about the ceiling underneath (if any)?

On 11/01/2012 18:34, GMM wrote:
Old house and a few things are quite bent! In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. So
how could it be done? 20mm is too much to plane etc. I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

I'd have thought an electric plane would probably do the trick with the
least amount of pain (hopefully it's not the full 15ft?!)

Otherwise - I don't know how load-bearing this is and how exposed it is,
but could you remove it altogether and replace it with a straight one?

Is there any mileage in trying to bend it back to where it should be
(using leverage against the adjacent joists somehow)?

David

GMM wrote:
Old house and a few things are quite bent! In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. So
how could it be done? 20mm is too much to plane etc. I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

GMM,

How long, wide a deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment you gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

Taking 20mm off the top of the joist is not advisable, even if you are going
to reinforce it - BTW, how are you going to fix the joists and support the
ends of the reinforcing timbers?

How long, deep and wide are the reinforcing timbers going to be - and how do
you intend to fix them to the existing joist and where are you going to
drill the holes for the fixings (most imporantly, which part of the existing
joist)?

And as harry has said, what about the ceiling (if any) fixed on the
underside of the joist - type etc?

If you are going to the trouble of removing the floorboard the full length
of the joist (and you will need to) to plane and reinforce it, why not
simply replace it with a nice straight new one? After all, you've done all
the hard work.

Cash

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

Old house and a few things are quite bent! In articular, a joist
along a corridor (about 15 feet long* has bowed up ward, making a hump
in the floor. Building up the other joists running along here would
throw the floor level out in terms of skirtings etc, so it would be
good to be able to take say (I haven't measured accurately) 20mm-ish
off this one to flatten the floor. I know that will weaken it and I
would sister it with another timber to bring the strength back. So
how could it be done? 20mm is too much to plane etc. I thought of
putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

could clamp/nail a couple of bits of straight planed wood on either side
proud of the joist and run a router along the humped joist supported by the
planed wood - obviously the amount proud would depend on the depth of cut
set on the router .... assuming you are going to reinforce it .....
--
(º€¢.¸(¨*€¢.¸ ¸.€¢*¨)¸.€¢Âº)
.€¢Â°€¢. Nik .€¢Â°€¢.
(¸.€¢Âº(¸.€¢Â¨* *¨€¢.¸)º€¢.¸)

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it along but
that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and screw +
glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished height.
Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and saw the top off.
Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and saw the
top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with all due
respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the joist and
should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the original (and *NOT*
"several strips of ply") doh!

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber without
being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and dead load
carrying well...

Cash

"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and saw the
top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with all
due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the joist and
should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the original (and *NOT*
"several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!
You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how long
the ply is and what load is on the ply.
I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would replace
20 mm of a joist.


And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber without
being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and dead load
carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm off and
it will resist further warping.
I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they can be.

dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the subject -
or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post here in response
to the OP, and you will see what my initial question was (repeated here) -
rather vital information for structural repairs wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment you
gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response to the
OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself have yet to
develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be, what glue
(and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] - and what type,
length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to take the
load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also prevent further
movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails type
or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress graded
plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and design
calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and
dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual mechanics
of timber usage in construction work.

I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some forty
five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured apprenticeship
[2] - and used some of the stuff in later years during works on public
buildings.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.


Cash

"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post here
in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial question was
(repeated here) - rather vital information for structural repairs wouldn't
you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment you
gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response to
the OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself have yet
to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be, what
glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] - and what
type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to take
the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also prevent further
movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails
type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress
graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and design
calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and
dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

You really don't have a clue.


I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

There is bugger all difference.
You just don't understand what I said.
Like being the depth of the joist and along it length, all of it!

Most engineered joists are an I beam, the top and bottom are there to stop
the central supporting beam from twisting.
If you do as I said then you have the equivalent of two beams, one either
side with the existing beam stopping them twisting.
Now show why you think its wrong.



As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some forty
five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured apprenticeship
[2] - and used some of the stuff in later years during works on public
buildings.


Shame you can't apply it then.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.


Cash

wrote:

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some forty
five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured apprenticeship
[2] - and used some of the stuff in later years during works on public
buildings.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.


Cash

You should see my joists... 2x4" notches everywhere thanks to a ham fisted
plumber, a few of the 8" joists are actually 4x2" on top of the original
4x2" ceiling joists in a roof conversion (and some of those have 2x4"
notches). Everything warped to buggery...

I just plated both sides with 7" x 8' lengths on 1/2" odd thick ply of no
particular grade, covered in PU glue and a bugger of a load of screws to
stiffen the whole lot up and bridge the notches (which are infilled with
scrap wood). The ply's job is mostly to prevent joist-joist sliding, so it's
absolute strenght is not particular important, which is not quite the case
here.

The fact it wasn't actually deflecting in a bad way before (no ceiling
cracking below, been like it for 3 decades), I just did it to add a bit of
stiffness and make notch repair easier. It was at that point I learnt to
stop worrying too much...


--
Tim Watts

On 11/01/2012 21:12, Cash wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and saw the
top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with all due
respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

Makes a change. Denboi usually talks through his arse.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 11/01/2012 23:07, dennis@home wrote:


"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post
here in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial question
was (repeated here) - rather vital information for structural repairs
wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment
you gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response
to the OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself
have yet to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be, what
glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] - and
what type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise to fix
that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to
take the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also prevent
further movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails
type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress
graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and
design calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and
dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

You really don't have a clue.

Nobody ever has a clue about what you are talking about you retard.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post
here in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial
question was (repeated here) - rather vital information for
structural repairs wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the
measurment you gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response
to the OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself
have yet to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.



Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be,
what glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] -
and what type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise
to fix that ply And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws
and glue" to
take the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also
prevent further movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern
No-Nails type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress
graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and
design calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live
and dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

You really don't have a clue.

Rather more than you I believe Dennis,

I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

There is bugger all difference.

Isn't there, from my experience there is a huge difference between a
properly engineered pywood joist and sticking a few bits of ply on the sided
of a dimension (or even rough saw) timber joist.

You just don't understand what I said.

What's so difficult in understanding gluing and screwing bits of ply onto
the side of a joist?

Like being the depth of the joist and along it length, all of it!

I will accept that you said the depth, but out of curiosity where did you
say "along the length of it" in your post (reproduced here)?
----------------------------------------------
"Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and screw +
glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished height.
Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and saw the top off.
Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement."
_____________________________

Most engineered joists are an I beam, the top and bottom are there to
stop the central supporting beam from twisting.
If you do as I said then you have the equivalent of two beams, one
either side with the existing beam stopping them twisting.
Now show why you think its wrong.

Where is the "top and bottom" of the repair that you suggested? You simply
advocated fixing plywood to the sides - so can you show *ME* how your
suggested repair corresponds to an engineered plywood "I-beam"?


As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some
forty five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured
apprenticeship [2] - and used some of the stuff in later years
during works on public buildings.


Shame you can't apply it then.

Shame you can't apply the basic principles of asking for more relevant
information about a job before shooting from the mouth.

As for applying them in 'the real world' I have - have you done so, or is it
all theoretical with you via Google?

Now Dennis, it's interesting that you have not answered one of the technical
questions that I have posed to you.

Cash

Cash wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!


Of all the posters to choose from you had to choose dennis:-)


--
Adam

Tim Watts wrote:
wrote:

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some
forty five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured
apprenticeship [2] - and used some of the stuff in later years
during works on public buildings.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.


Cash

You should see my joists... 2x4" notches everywhere thanks to a ham
fisted plumber, a few of the 8" joists are actually 4x2" on top of
the original 4x2" ceiling joists in a roof conversion (and some of
those have 2x4" notches). Everything warped to buggery...

I just plated both sides with 7" x 8' lengths on 1/2" odd thick ply
of no particular grade, covered in PU glue and a bugger of a load of
screws to stiffen the whole lot up and bridge the notches (which are
infilled with scrap wood). The ply's job is mostly to prevent
joist-joist sliding, so it's absolute strenght is not particular
important, which is not quite the case here.

The fact it wasn't actually deflecting in a bad way before (no ceiling
cracking below, been like it for 3 decades), I just did it to add a
bit of stiffness and make notch repair easier. It was at that point I
learnt to stop worrying too much...

Tim,

If it was my property with those problems, I would probably do the same as
you, as I would have all the information in front of me to make an informed
decision - but I cannot do that in response to question here about repairs
to load bearing members - and minimal information to boot.

I must agree with you though about the odd "ham fisted plumber" - they can
be a bit exuberant in how deep they cut their notches and a bit remiss in
where they cut them.

I once saw a plumber take down brand new kitchen wall unit because it was
'in the way of his pipe drop' from the ceiling, run his pipes down the wall,
and then proceed to cut the back of the wall unit down its full width to fit
over his pipes, and then put the unit back on the wall in its original
place.

It was funny opening the doors of the unit and seeing these pipes sticking
about an inch or so into the unit - the client was not a happy bunny- and
the plumber was fired the following day!

Cash

ARWadsworth wrote:
Cash wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!


Of all the posters to choose from you had to choose dennis:-)

I like to live dangerously sometimes Adam - and that's about as dangerous as
I can get these days. ROTFL

Cash

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
Cash wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!


Of all the posters to choose from you had to choose dennis:-)

Ignore them all, Dennis (as you do). Why change the habit of a lifetime, I
for one, enjoy reading your tripe.
*choke*
Ahhhh yessssssssss, Dennis, what an appropriate name.

On Jan 11, 10:33*pm, "Cash"
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

*I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little *you know about the subject -
or of correctly responding to a post. *Read my first post here in response
to the OP, and you will see what my initial question was (repeated here) -
rather vital information for structural repairs wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment you
gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] * *Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response to the
OP's question. *Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself have yet to
develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be, what glue
(and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] - and what type,
length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to take the
load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also prevent further
movement?

[1] * *Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails type
or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress graded
plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and design
calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and
dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual mechanics
of timber usage in construction work.

I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some forty
five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured apprenticeship
[2] - and used some of the stuff in later years during works on public
buildings.

[2] * *You do remember those don't you? *And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you ever looked at the wing structure of a wooden aircraft, you
would be astonished at how strong plywood is along it's plane.

On Jan 11, 11:07*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message

...





dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

*I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little *you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. *Read my first post here
in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial question was
(repeated here) - rather vital information for structural repairs wouldn't
you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the measurment you
gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] * *Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response to
the OP's question. *Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself have yet
to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be, what
glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] - and what
type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to take
the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also prevent further
movement?

[1] * *Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails
type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used stress
graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings and design
calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live and
dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

You really don't have a clue.



I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

There is bugger all difference.
You just don't understand what I said.
Like being the depth of the joist and along it length, all of it!

Most engineered joists are an I beam, the top and bottom are there to stop
the central supporting beam from twisting.
If you do as I said then you have the equivalent of two beams, one either
side with the existing beam stopping them twisting.
Now show why you think its wrong.



As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some forty
five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured apprenticeship
[2] - and used some of the stuff in later years during works on public
buildings.

Shame you can't apply it then.



[2] * *You do remember those don't you? *And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

"Cash" wrote in message
...

Shame you can't apply the basic principles of asking for more relevant
information about a job before shooting from the mouth.

As for applying them in 'the real world' I have - have you done so, or is
it all theoretical with you via Google?
So you don't think the OP has even read what you posted then?
If he has he already has all the knowledge you have posted so he will
already know all about making sure its strong enough, etc.


Now Dennis, it's interesting that you have not answered one of the
technical questions that I have posed to you.

Well I haven't even noticed you post any questions during your mouthing off.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:36:47 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

I agree; however, the removal of 150-odd lines of post would have made
a helluva difference there, don't you agree?

On Jan 12, 7:36*am, harry wrote:


I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. *They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

And it's an old property, probably even more over engineered as they
didn't have the skills to cut everything to the bone like we do today.

MBQ

On Jan 12, 2:54 pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:36 am, harry wrote:



I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

And it's an old property, probably even more over engineered as they
didn't have the skills to cut everything to the bone like we do today.

MBQ

I agree, plus if the OP felt the need, could "the planed one" be
braced by extra "noggins" to neighbouriing joists perhaps using joist
hangers etc ??

Jim K

On Jan 12, 2:54*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:36*am, harry wrote:



I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. *They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

And it's an old property, probably even more over engineered as they
didn't have the skills to cut everything to the bone like we do today.

MBQ

In days of yore they used a rule of thumb for sizing joists. Only
works in imperial.

Assuming 2" joists @16" centres.
Take the width of the room in feet, half it and add two, equals the
joist depth in inches.

So a sixteen feet wide room needs 10" deep joists. ( Domestic
situation only)

Of course the depth of joists is sized to the widest room in the
house. All the rest have to be the same and are therefore oversized
anyway.

So using the above formula, the OP can determine if his joists are
oversized anyway.

dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...

Shame you can't apply the basic principles of asking for more
relevant information about a job before shooting from the mouth.

As for applying them in 'the real world' I have - have you done so,
or is it all theoretical with you via Google?
So you don't think the OP has even read what you posted then?
If he has he already has all the knowledge you have posted so he will
already know all about making sure its strong enough, etc.

If the OP has, then I'm sure that he can make up his own mind - if he hasn't
then that doesn't cause me any problem.

Now Dennis, it's interesting that you have not answered one of the
technical questions that I have posed to you.

Well I haven't even noticed you post any questions during your
mouthing off.

Try re-reading the last but one post I made - you know, the one that you
selectively edited.


Never mind Dennis, life still goes on. LOL



Cash

harry wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:33 pm, "Cash"
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post
here in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial
question was (repeated here) - rather vital information for
structural repairs wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the
measurment you gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response
to the OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself
have yet to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be,
what glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] -
and what type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise
to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to
take the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also
prevent further movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails
type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used
stress graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings
and design calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live
and dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some
forty five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured
apprenticeship [2] - and used some of the stuff in later years
during works on public buildings.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you ever looked at the wing structure of a wooden aircraft, you
would be astonished at how strong plywood is along it's plane.

Yep, the old Mosquito really was some aircraft wasn't it - but what the hell
that has to do with cutting of a floor joist really escapes me.

Typical youngsters (and Dennis), can never seem to keep to the subject at
hand.

Cash

harry wrote:
On Jan 11, 11:07 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message

...





dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

Snipped)

I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

Depends on size of the timber, length of the timber, live load, dead load
etc, and generally you would be right - but what about the unexpected?

But the one the one question that has yet to be asked - is why has a
(presumably old) joist bowed nearly one inch upwards for no apparent reason
(in a presumably) short time. Surely that reason has to be found before any
remedial works can be suggested?

Just out of curiosity though, how can you base your decision on a job that
you have never seen and with the minimal information given - you and Dennis
must have second-sight Harry

Cash

"Cash" wrote in message
...

Depends on size of the timber, length of the timber, live load, dead load
etc, and generally you would be right - but what about the unexpected?

But the one the one question that has yet to be asked - is why has a
(presumably old) joist bowed nearly one inch upwards for no apparent
reason (in a presumably) short time. Surely that reason has to be found
before any remedial works can be suggested?

Just out of curiosity though, how can you base your decision on a job that
you have never seen and with the minimal information given - you and
Dennis must have second-sight Harry


We don't have second sight unlike you, however all we have done is suggest
ways the OP could fix the problem.
It is up to the OP to decide how as only the OP has all the details and what
his skills are.
All you have done is get the wrong ideas about what was said.

Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such controversy
I would have thought of a different way to ask the question!!

Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down because it has
a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be stronger than
it was to start with. That, of course, wasn't the question: I was
simply after some suggestions for how I might do a decent job of
cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels' best
between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's guided
saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a bugger
all the way along a joist. I would replace it as suggested but that
would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty much every
cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

GMM wrote:
Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such controversy
I would have thought of a different way to ask the question!!

Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down because it has
a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be stronger than
it was to start with. That, of course, wasn't the question: I was
simply after some suggestions for how I might do a decent job of
cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels' best
between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's guided
saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a bugger
all the way along a joist. I would replace it as suggested but that
would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty much every
cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

You're welcome GMM.

If you go ahead and decide to cut the joist, have you thought of using a
very sharp axe, cutting with the grain to 'knock' most of the waste off -
and then finish off to the correct height using the electric planer or even
a sharp hand plane?

Just to perhaps cause a little more controversy with one or two here - if
you could get hold of an old adze, that would be even better, as you could
stand up and do the job, and with a sharp tool and a little bit of practice,
get an almost plane-like finish for a lot-less effort.

Just wear a pair of steel toecapped shoes and shin-pads though while you're
learning. :-)

All the best with a bugger of a job, and let us know how you get on.

Cash

On Jan 12, 2:54*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:36*am, harry wrote:



I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. *They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.


You can saw a joist in 2 and no-ones going anywhere. You just get a
patch where its a bit bouncy.


And it's an old property, probably even more over engineered as they
didn't have the skills to cut everything to the bone like we do today.

MBQ

Actually joists on Victorian properties are way smaller and weaker
than modern houses. Its normally a complete non-issue in practice.


NT

On Jan 12, 6:52*pm, "Cash"
wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jan 11, 11:07 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message

...

dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

Snipped)

I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

Depends on size of the timber, length of the timber, live load, dead load
etc, and generally you would be right - but what about the unexpected?

But the one the one question that has yet to be asked - is why has a
(presumably old) joist bowed nearly one inch upwards for no apparent reason
(in a presumably) short time. *Surely that reason has to be found before any
remedial works can be suggested?

Just out of curiosity though, how can you base your decision on a job that
you have never seen and with the minimal information given - you and Dennis
must have second-sight Harry

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Years of experience. See my post.
We're not talking rocket science.
The joist bowed when the moisture content changed. Could have
happened at any time. Fairly common thing.

On Jan 12, 6:40*pm, "Cash"
wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jan 11, 10:33 pm, "Cash"
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Cash" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:34:52 -0800 (PST), GMM wrote:

I thought of putting a circular saw on its side and running it
along but that
doesn't look very feasible.
Any suggestions chaps?

Well I would cut several strips of ply the depth of the joist and
screw + glue them on either side so the tops are at the finished
height. Then I would get a hand saw and lie it across the ply and
saw the top
off. Stager the joints in the ply and use it as the reinforcement.

Dennis,

It's rare for me to openly contradict another poster here, but with
all due respects, I think you really are talking through your hat!

In this case, they reinforcing material should be bolted to the
joist and should, at the very least be of equal thickness to the
original (and *NOT* "several strips of ply") doh!

Well I didn't say how thick the ply is!

Well that really speaks volumes on how little you know about the
subject - or of correctly responding to a post. Read my first post
here in response to the OP, and you will see what my initial
question was (repeated here) - rather vital information for
structural repairs wouldn't you agree?

-----------------------------

GMM,

How long, wide a[nd] [1] deep is the joist itself - (is the
measurment you gave -
the corridor or joist length)?

[1] Error in my OP corrected here
----------------------------

You really shouldn't argue unless you know how thick the ply is, how
long the ply is and what load is on the ply.

Please show me where you specified those dimensions in your response
to the OP's question. Oh, you didn't and as both the OP and myself
have yet to develop ESP, how are we to read your mind?

I can assure you that three pieces of 18 mm ply on either side would
replace 20 mm of a joist.

Now how long and wide should those three pieces of "18mm ply" be,
what glue (and preparation of the joist and ply) would you use [2] -
and what type, length, diameter and metal of screw would you advise
to fix that ply

And just how do you expect a few " bits of ply, screws and glue" to
take the load of a trimmed joist of unspecified size and also
prevent further movement?

[1] Epoxy, PVA, casein, animal - or perhaps the more modern No-Nails
type or even silicone mastic.

And as an old carpenter, I can assure you that unless you used
stress graded plywood, industrial glues, correct mechanical fixings
and design calculations - I would suggest that you are wrong.

And as for advising the reducing any load bearing piece of timber
without being told the size of it, its unsupported span and live
and dead load carrying well...

Well if you are that worried then its a lot better than taking 20 mm
off and it will resist further warping.

If you believe that, then you have little knowledge on the actual
mechanics of timber usage in construction work.

I suggest you lookup engineered joists to see just how strong they
can be.

That's a far different animal from the "repair" you suggested.

As for "looking up engineered joists", I studied that subject some
forty five years ago as part of a 5 year City & Guilds indentured
apprenticeship [2] - and used some of the stuff in later years
during works on public buildings.

[2] You do remember those don't you? And you may even have a few
building construction qualifications yourself.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you ever looked at the wing structure of a wooden aircraft, you
would be astonished at how strong plywood is along it's plane.

Yep, the old Mosquito really was some aircraft wasn't it - but what the hell
that has to do with cutting of a floor joist really escapes me.


Well if it escapes you you're pretty thick.
The main spar in a wooden aircraft is truely astonishing if you see
one cut through.
The mosquito was only one of hundreds of designs. Many still flying
and lots of people have to repair them.

Oh and as you are thick, a joist and an aircraft spar are both beams.
The aircraft spar is taken to the absolute limit of what is possible.

On Jan 12, 11:47*pm, "Cash"
wrote:
GMM wrote:
Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such controversy
I would have thought of a different way to ask the question!!

Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down because it has
a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be stronger than
it was to start with. *That, of course, wasn't the question: *I was
simply after some suggestions for how I might do a decent job of
cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels' best
between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's guided
saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a bugger
all the way along a joist. *I would replace it as suggested but that
would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty much every
cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

You're welcome GMM.

If you go ahead and decide to cut the joist, have you thought of using a
very sharp axe, cutting with the grain to 'knock' most of the waste off -
and then finish off to the correct height using the electric planer or even
a sharp hand plane?

Just to perhaps cause a little more controversy with one or two here - if
you could get hold of an old adze, that would be even better, as you could
stand up and do the job, and with a sharp tool and a little bit of practice,
get an almost plane-like finish for a lot-less effort.

Just wear a pair of steel toecapped shoes and shin-pads though while you're
learning. * :-)

All the best with a bugger of a job, and let us know how you get on.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Using an adze is highly skilled and not easy to learn, I have tried
one out..
If all nails are pulled, about ten minutes with an electric plane.

On Jan 13, 1:23*am, NT wrote:
On Jan 12, 2:54*pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote:

On Jan 12, 7:36*am, harry wrote:

I have seen plenty of excessively notched out joists (even from one
end of a room to another) but never seen one actually break as a
result.
The floor just becomes springy.
The cure being to bolt doublers on the sides with glue and/or timber
connectors.
Timber floors are massively over engineered. *They are sized to
prevent excessive deflection rather than actual failure as is a lot of
building material.
I wouldn't have thought that 20mm off a single joist would make a lot
of differerence.

You can saw a joist in 2 and no-ones going anywhere. You just get a
patch where its a bit bouncy.

And it's an old property, probably even more over engineered as they
didn't have the skills to cut everything to the bone like we do today.

MBQ

Actually joists on Victorian properties are way smaller and weaker
than modern houses. Its normally a complete non-issue in practice.

NT
They had better wood in them days than we have but otherwise exactly
so.

In message , Cash
?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?@?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? .?.?.?.?.//.com.invalid
writes
GMM wrote:
Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such controversy
I would have thought of a different way to ask the question!!

Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down because it has
a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be stronger than
it was to start with. That, of course, wasn't the question: I was
simply after some suggestions for how I might do a decent job of
cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels' best
between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's guided
saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a bugger
all the way along a joist. I would replace it as suggested but that
would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty much every
cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

You're welcome GMM.

If you go ahead and decide to cut the joist, have you thought of using a
very sharp axe, cutting with the grain to 'knock' most of the waste off -
and then finish off to the correct height using the electric planer or even
a sharp hand plane?

Just to perhaps cause a little more controversy with one or two here - if
you could get hold of an old adze, that would be even better, as you could
stand up and do the job, and with a sharp tool and a little bit of practice,
get an almost plane-like finish for a lot-less effort.

Just wear a pair of steel toecapped shoes and shin-pads though while you're
learning. :-)

All the best with a bugger of a job, and let us know how you get on.

You can sharpen a garden Mattock to do the job of an adze.

Don't bevel both faces: grind upper only.

Angle grinder:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb

harry wrote:
On Jan 12, 11:47 pm, "Cash"
wrote:
GMM wrote:
Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such
controversy I would have thought of a different way to ask the
question!!

Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down because it
has a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be
stronger than it was to start with. That, of course, wasn't the
question: I was simply after some suggestions for how I might do a
decent job of cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels'
best between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's
guided saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a
bugger all the way along a joist. I would replace it as suggested
but that would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty
much every cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

You're welcome GMM.

If you go ahead and decide to cut the joist, have you thought of
using a very sharp axe, cutting with the grain to 'knock' most of
the waste off - and then finish off to the correct height using the
electric planer or even a sharp hand plane?

Just to perhaps cause a little more controversy with one or two here
- if you could get hold of an old adze, that would be even better,
as you could stand up and do the job, and with a sharp tool and a
little bit of practice, get an almost plane-like finish for a
lot-less effort.

Just wear a pair of steel toecapped shoes and shin-pads though while
you're learning. :-)

All the best with a bugger of a job, and let us know how you get on.

Cash- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Using an adze is highly skilled and not easy to learn, I have tried
one out..
If all nails are pulled, about ten minutes with an electric plane.

Harry,

Then you had a poor instructor!

Cash

Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Cash
?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?@?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? .?.?.?.?.//.com.invalid
writes
GMM wrote:
Well well well....If I'd known it was going to cause such
controversy I would have thought of a different way to ask the
question!! Let everyone be assured that the house won't fall down
because it
has a straight floor and by the time I'm finished it will be
stronger than it was to start with. That, of course, wasn't the
question: I was simply after some suggestions for how I might do a
decent job of cutting the top straight!

I might have to do some off site experiments and see what 'feels'
best between Jim K's power plane, Ghostrecon's router and dennis's
guided saw, though I suspect that whatever I use will be a bit of a
bugger all the way along a joist. I would replace it as suggested
but that would mean I'd have to rewire half the house as pretty
much every cable in the house goes through this joist.

Cheers people

You're welcome GMM.

If you go ahead and decide to cut the joist, have you thought of
using a very sharp axe, cutting with the grain to 'knock' most of
the waste off - and then finish off to the correct height using the
electric planer or even a sharp hand plane?

Just to perhaps cause a little more controversy with one or two here
- if you could get hold of an old adze, that would be even better,
as you could stand up and do the job, and with a sharp tool and a
little bit of practice, get an almost plane-like finish for a
lot-less effort. Just wear a pair of steel toecapped shoes and shin-pads
though while
you're learning. :-)

All the best with a bugger of a job, and let us know how you get on.

You can sharpen a garden Mattock to do the job of an adze.

Don't bevel both faces: grind upper only.

Angle grinder:-)

regards

Never thought of that Tim, bloody good idea for a one off use - but ensure
that there is a slight bow in the blade, round off the corners to prevent
digging in and use an oil stone (or fine flat file) after grinding the edge
to give it a sharp edge.

Cash