Hi all.

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

We have an inglenook fireplace in the lounge.

I have a question. As the thermal store would be in the room above the
room containing the wood burning stove, Is it allowed to run the flow
and return pipes through the register plate? The register plate is
about 2ft by 5ft.

There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). There looks to be enough room to fit a proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.

The chimney stack is half into the house and half outside if that makes
sense.

The flow/return pipes would come up vertically behind the WBS, through
the register plate, traverse diagonally between the ceiling - upper
floor void, and then vertically into the thermal store.

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.

Stephen

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:08:36 +0000, Stephen H wrote:

Is it allowed to run the flow and return pipes through the register
plate? The register plate is about 2ft by 5ft.

AIUI teh register plate is only there to stop crap falling out of the
chimney and to stop the room heat disappering up it. The flue gases
are all enclosed within the liner. I can't see why the pipes can't
pass through it.

Have a dig about on the HETAS webiste?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Stephen H wrote:
Hi all.

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

We have an inglenook fireplace in the lounge.

I have a question. As the thermal store would be in the room above the
room containing the wood burning stove, Is it allowed to run the flow
and return pipes through the register plate? The register plate is
about 2ft by 5ft.


I dont see off hand why not.

There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). There looks to be enough room to fit a proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.


OK
The chimney stack is half into the house and half outside if that makes
sense.


yes.

The flow/return pipes would come up vertically behind the WBS, through
the register plate, traverse diagonally between the ceiling - upper
floor void, and then vertically into the thermal store.

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.


I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

I am not sure this is often dine, but I cant see a good reason why not.
Register plates are cosmetic things only.


Stephen

On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.

I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?

Jim K

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.

I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?

Jim K

He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.

On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.

I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?

Jim K

He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.

eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??

time will tell

Jim K

On 02/01/2012 23:08, Stephen H wrote:
Hi all.

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

We have an inglenook fireplace in the lounge.

I have a question. As the thermal store would be in the room above the
room containing the wood burning stove, Is it allowed to run the flow
and return pipes through the register plate? The register plate is about
2ft by 5ft.

There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). There looks to be enough room to fit a proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.

The chimney stack is half into the house and half outside if that makes
sense.

The flow/return pipes would come up vertically behind the WBS, through
the register plate, traverse diagonally between the ceiling - upper
floor void, and then vertically into the thermal store.

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

That's what our heating engineers said when they fitted ours anyway.
Ours is on the other side of the wall behind the main fireplace.

They also pointed out that the way it had been incorrectly fitted
previously to a Baxi boiler completely defeated its intended purpose as
a safety shunt for excess heat during a powercut!

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 02:04:33 -0800 (PST), Jim K wrote:

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??

That's how I read it. A 12" flue is rather large for a stove. Ours
has a 7" and is rated at 10kW or there abouts. Most stoves have a 6"
flue in their spec, small ones 5".

The flue bit is were involving a good HETAS company/person is a good
idea.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot
less messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire.
Only downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs
sweeping more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty
wild outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.

Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot less
messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire. Only
downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs sweeping
more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty wild
outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.


Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and supplies wood
for the stove at the same time!

Mike

On Jan 3, 3:16 pm, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...



On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot less
messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire. Only
downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs sweeping
more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty wild
outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.

Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and supplies wood
for the stove at the same time!

Mike

apart from the chopping, recovery, splitting & years seasoning in
between ;)

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:16 pm, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...



On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a
convection based radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the
back boiler so that if the main CH pump is unpowered due to a
powercut with a blazing fire you don't immediately risk boiling
in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating
before it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with
excess heat though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is
to still have some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a
lot less messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an
open fire. Only downside of wood burning that I can see is that the
flue needs sweeping more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is
pretty wild outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in
the wind.

Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and
supplies wood for the stove at the same time!

Mike

apart from the chopping, recovery, splitting & years seasoning in
between ;)

Spoilsport.

--
Adam

On Jan 3, 3:29 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:16 pm, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...

On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a
convection based radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the
back boiler so that if the main CH pump is unpowered due to a
powercut with a blazing fire you don't immediately risk boiling
in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating
before it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with
excess heat though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is
to still have some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a
lot less messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an
open fire. Only downside of wood burning that I can see is that the
flue needs sweeping more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is
pretty wild outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in
the wind.

Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and
supplies wood for the stove at the same time!

Mike

apart from the chopping, recovery, splitting & years seasoning in
between ;)

Spoilsport.

moi?

Jim K

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 3:16 pm, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...



On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection
based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that
if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire
you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot
less
messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire. Only
downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs sweeping
more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty
wild
outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.

Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and supplies
wood
for the stove at the same time!

Mike

apart from the chopping, recovery, splitting & years seasoning in
between ;)

Jim K

well here's splitting made easy ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4GmFX3Puo

On Jan 3, 8:58 pm, "Jim Edgerton" wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message

...



On Jan 3, 3:16 pm, "MuddyMike" wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message

...

On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection
based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that
if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire
you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot
less
messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire. Only
downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs sweeping
more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty
wild
outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.

Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and supplies
wood
for the stove at the same time!

Mike

apart from the chopping, recovery, splitting & years seasoning in
between ;)

Jim K

well here's splitting made easy ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4GmFX3Puo

mmm seen that/those before 1) looks like dry logs 2) of a size that I
would just put in the stove? 3) seems to destroy the log rather than a
neat split or 4) just takes a splinter off leaving rest intact 5)
fires the bits all over the place 6) uses fuel 7) risks

(also despite being called "wheel of death" there was no death
featured in the clip? ;)

Jim K

On Jan 3, 11:24*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Yes - absolutely, having just suffered that some 10 miles from
Edinburgh, and I think the weather station is is less than 5 miles
directly from us, so we and the local electricity suffered the 100mph
gust. No damage to mine but the electrics went off at 9am and didn't
come back till 4pm. I don't have a dump radiator, relying on the HW
tank - we didn't quite get to the point of issue orders for all to
have a bath !

Coming back to topic, I'm assuming that the OP is using copper pipe
(28mm at least) for his feed and cannot see why is can't run quite
close to the flue - mine's does; after all it is full of 'cooling'
water so the pipe walls aren't going to get any hotter than the
water.

Rob

On 03/01/2012 21:45, robgraham wrote:
On Jan 3, 11:24 am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:
We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)

One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.

The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...

Yes - absolutely, having just suffered that some 10 miles from
Edinburgh, and I think the weather station is is less than 5 miles
directly from us, so we and the local electricity suffered the 100mph
gust. No damage to mine but the electrics went off at 9am and didn't
come back till 4pm. I don't have a dump radiator, relying on the HW
tank - we didn't quite get to the point of issue orders for all to
have a bath !

Our hot water ends up pretty scalding if the fire is on without the pump
running (and the dump radiator works overtime). The pump will come on by
thermostat provided that there is electricity available.

Coming back to topic, I'm assuming that the OP is using copper pipe
(28mm at least) for his feed and cannot see why is can't run quite
close to the flue - mine's does; after all it is full of 'cooling'
water so the pipe walls aren't going to get any hotter than the
water.

The risk might be that the flue in contact with a hot water pipe will
lose heat and tend to distil tar onto the cooler side wall. They seem to
faff about insulating the chimney void space with vermiculite - I
presume to make the insert metal pipe nice and cosy when in use.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

have you ever seen double walled flue ?

Yes.

how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?

By dint of having about 3" of rockwool between the walls perhaps?

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:



On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.

eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....


Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID


"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "

"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??


WTF else?

time will tell

In your case, I dont wanna hear it.

Jim K

MuddyMike wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/2012 11:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:21:03 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

We are looking into the logistics of a wood burning stove with a
back
boiler (to be used with a thermal store)
One thing to consider is that there is supposed to be a convection based
radiator somewhere that is close coupled to the back boiler so that if
the main CH pump is unpowered due to a powercut with a blazing fire you
don't immediately risk boiling in the back boiler.
The OP is having the wood burner connected to the store. Assuming
that is a reasonable size that will take a far bit of heating before
it boils. One still needs to think about how to deal with excess heat
though. Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have
some space heating when the power goes off...
Indeed. And light from the flames too. You can even boil water a lot less
messily with a pan on the top than you ever could on an open fire. Only
downside of wood burning that I can see is that the flue needs sweeping
more often.

Where I live powercuts from trees falling on the power lines are not
uncommon. At the moment (FX: touches wood) we are OK but it is pretty wild
outside with various chunks of stuff flying about in the wind.


Sounds like a good system, tree falls down, cuts the power and supplies wood
for the stove at the same time!


I must polish up the chainsaw after todays gales


Mike

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 21:57:30 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Surely one of the bonuses of a wood burner is to still have some
space
heating when the power goes off...

the electrics went off at 9am and didn't come back till 4pm.

Only 7 hours? We were off for 36hrs in one cut just before Christmas.
It had only been back about 6 hours after a previous cut of about
6hrs.

I'm assuming that the OP is using copper pipe (28mm at least) ...

What else? You aren't suposed to use plastic within 1m of a gas
boiler let alone an uncontrolled solid fuel one. 28mm is the smallest
recomended for a gravity loop.

Our hot water ends up pretty scalding if the fire is on without the pump
running (and the dump radiator works overtime).

Is that with the wood burner feeding heat store or just a coil within
a cylinder of stored, potable, hot water? You could still fit a TMV
on the cylinder output to limit the DHW temperature to something
sensible.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jan 4, 12:24 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.

have you ever seen double walled flue ?

Yes.

how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?

By dint of having about 3" of rockwool between the walls perhaps?

so just to be clear you think you can get double wall flue with 3"
insulation around it up an existing 12" ali single wall gas flue liner
in situ up a chimney?

that's worse than what I thought you meant - you clearly have no idea.

You must have nodded off when they did yours ;)

Jim K

On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.

eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....

Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID

"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "

"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??

WTF else?

mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!

time will tell

In your case, I dont wanna hear it.

you wouldn't be listening anyway - except to the sound of your own
voice in your own little world as usual ;)

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID

"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "

"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?

mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!

6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.

time will tell
In your case, I dont wanna hear it.

you wouldn't be listening anyway - except to the sound of your own
voice in your own little world as usual ;)

Jim K

On Jan 4, 10:31 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID

"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "

"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"

spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?

mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!

6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.

no **** sherlock
any installation tips? ;)))

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:31 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID
"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "
"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"
spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?
mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!
6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.

no **** sherlock
any installation tips? ;)))


yep. Place it firmly into soft soil , sit on it and ram it up your arse.


Jim K

On Jan 4, 11:07 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:31 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID
"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "
"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"
spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?
mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!
6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.

no **** sherlock
any installation tips? ;)))

yep. Place it firmly into soft soil , sit on it and ram it up your arse.

more chance of that than *even you* feeding 3" insulated double wall
rigid flue up an extant 12" gas flue liner - but we eventually
extracted that out in the end didn;t we ;))

Jim K

Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 11:07 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:31 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID
"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "
"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"
spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?
mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!
6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.
no **** sherlock
any installation tips? ;)))
yep. Place it firmly into soft soil , sit on it and ram it up your arse.

more chance of that than *even you* feeding 3" insulated double wall
rigid flue up an extant 12" gas flue liner - but we eventually
extracted that out in the end didn;t we ;))

I assumed he had found something even larger than ths which is to be
fair on a shade over an inch of insulation

http://www.fluesystems.com/shop/Dinak_DW_8.html

But well under 12" diameter

Or intended to backfill with more insulation in the old flue.


Jim K

On Jan 4, 3:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 11:07 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 10:31 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 4, 12:26 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:53 am, Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:39:41 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:
On Jan 3, 2:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip
If pipes through the register plate are not allowed, that would mean
running the flow and return pipes up the interior walls of the lounge
which would not be aesthetically pleasing.
I think you need to allow for a safety valve somewhere, but apart from
that the double walled flue should keep any seriously damaging heat off
the pipework.
have you ever seen double walled flue ? how do you imagine it would
keep heat off?
Jim K
He's probably talking about the rigid insulated flue rather than
flexible "twin walled" flue. The insulated flue is warm on the outer
surface rather than extremely hot.
eh? what "rigid insulated flue"? the op mentions a 12" corrugated ali
gas liner....
Why dont you ****ING READ WHAT HE SAID
"There is currently a 12 inch metal flue liner (theres a pub style gas
fire currently). "
"There looks to be enough room to fit a *proper double
lined WBS flue pipe through this 12 inch corrugated aluminium liner.*"
spose he could be referring to a double wall flue liner stuffed up the
12" ali gas liner??
WTF else?
mmmm which ****WIT intorduced the idea of said 3" insulated double
walled flue. installed *into an already installed* 12" ali gas
liner......I never imagined that scenario hehe!!
6" ID 12" OD is a perfectly decent flue.
no **** sherlock
any installation tips? ;)))
yep. Place it firmly into soft soil , sit on it and ram it up your arse.

more chance of that than *even you* feeding 3" insulated double wall
rigid flue up an extant 12" gas flue liner - but we eventually
extracted that out in the end didn;t we ;))

I assumed he had found something even larger than ths which is to be
fair on a shade over an inch of insulation

http://www.fluesystems.com/shop/Dinak_DW_8.html

But well under 12" diameter

mmm OK then lets play:-

1) 12" = 305mm, flue outer (your link) dia 260mm = 45mm total
difference ~ less than an inch each side if central? cosy! to the
point of unrealistic

2) how do you get rigid insulated flue round bends in the gas liner?
(clue's in the question - once again)

Or intended to backfill with more insulation in the old flue.

?yeah course you did...;)))

Jim K

On 04/01/2012 00:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 21:57:30 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

Our hot water ends up pretty scalding if the fire is on without the pump
running (and the dump radiator works overtime).

Is that with the wood burner feeding heat store or just a coil within
a cylinder of stored, potable, hot water? You could still fit a TMV
on the cylinder output to limit the DHW temperature to something
sensible.

Coil in nominally potable hot water (if you don't mind a bit of
dissolved bat dung). It is only a problem when the mains is out and the
fire is seriously energetic which is a manageably rare situation - once
or twice a year (FX: touches wood as it is very wild again tonight).

It is easy enough to turn the fire down a bit having found this out and
not stoke it up so much after the mains has gone AWOL.

If mains is available the thermostat forces pumped circulation when the
exit temperature of the rising hot water exceeds a set limit ~75-80C.
The contacts close ineffectually when there is no mains and the big
benefit of the wood burner and back boiler is that you still have heat,
hot water and a modest amount of light even with no mains at all.

I keep meaning to sort out an alternative PSU for the CH pump in the
event of mains failure but it remains forever on the roundtuit list.

I know people in cities with less reliable mains so I can't complain!

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:44:12 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

I keep meaning to sort out an alternative PSU for the CH pump in the
event of mains failure but it remains forever on the roundtuit list.

A cheap 500W invertor will probably have enough poke to start and run
a CH pump, assuming the pump is happy with the wave form that some
cheap invertors produce. A big old car battery can be your energy
source but remember car batteries don't like deep discharge so don't
be surprised if it only survives one use.

Maybe a little stinky 650W 2 stroke generator would be better,
probably not a lot in it price wise and you will have power as long
as you have fuel rather than until the battery is flat.

I know people in cities with less reliable mains so I can't complain!

Aye, ours is normally very good but recently has been a bit iffy.
36hrs off post a snow storm that encased the wires in 2" of ice,
bringing them down in several places and snapping a few poles. Plus a
couple of other power cuts of unknown origin.

--
Cheers
Dave.