Lets have green public transport
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total
recharge no more than lining up at petrol pumps.

Let us assume

Do not assume. Find out.

Right - I did - The Mitsubishi has a 66BHP engine = 49KW. Battery is only
16KWh - so at full power you get about 20 minutes motoring. And if you
go
for the 10 minute charge option (being developed) you will need a 150A
supply.

Actually worse than my assumed figures.

That 150A supply will be at a station. You can charge it slower at home.

Lets have green public transport
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/12/2011 17:13, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total
recharge no more than lining up at petrol pumps.

How many is a few minutes? What's that in watts? And how much power
needs to be delivered to the charging station to do half a dozen cars
at once?

Overnight storage using supercaps.

How do you charge the supercaps?

The mains

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"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2011 18:22, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2011 17:13, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total
recharge no more than lining up at petrol pumps.

So, in the time it takes me to put enough liquid fuel into my fuel
tank to drive a few hundred miles, I can put enough electricity into
the battery to drive a few dozen.

Dope, you can drive a few hundred miles. Some people are so thick!

Using liquid fuel, yes I can do up to 500 miles on a single fill, using
batteries, nowhere near that.

Some are getting 200-300 mile range. Charging infrastructure will be in
place. If you want to dive 500 mile without stopping then get a range
extender. NO need to drive 500 miles without stopping.

As a side point, people falling asleep at the wheel and driver fatigue are
being attributed to large petrol tanks as the drivers do not stop to rest as
in a fill up.

Oh, and the Toshiba batteries (80% charge in a minute) you mention are
only used in handheld devices at the moment, the technology may well
not be scalable for traction use,

Dope, I gave the link to Toshiba who are making the plants for auto use.

Not in this thread, you didn't.

I did. Stop typing tripe!

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"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
How do you charge the supercaps?

Windmill fairies.

Or a container sized nuclear generator round the back such as the ones
made by Toshiba.

You are learning.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Do you go 125mph for hours on end? Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of
the Tesla.

After the two they tested broke down? I think not.

Again for fools: "Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of the Tesla."

I would be too of a company so crass as to offer a sports car for test on
a track when they both broke down. They plainly expected some form of
fawning review like you'd do - not the truth.

Apparently they never broke down. Top Gear are on back-hinders (not made by
the BBC) from auto and oil companies. Its bias makes it so obvious.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
You 'witnessed' it from inside the union? If so, why didn't you do
something about it?

Don't jump to conclusions

It's a fair enough comment. If I had witnessed any intimidation from
either union 'side' I hope I'd have done something about it. But I never
have done. Only heated debate.

If from outside, your views will just be that of any other so called
observer like the meja.

Not necessarily.

How can you have an opinion on something like this you haven't personally
witnessed - except from others?

He opinion came from the Daily Mail, Daily Express, etc.

And I'm saying it is in the main nonsense. The industries were already
dead on their feet due to massive under investment and or lack of
direction. None of which are the business of a union.

Yep.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Possibly until he drove it.

When driving it. He was screeching about the acceleration.

You *have* watched the whole review, haven't you? Including the bits
where Clarkson notes that *both* test vehicles failed during the test?

The point was not the quality of manufacture, it was the performance.

FFS. Both batteries failed.

The better batteries are now available which they did not use.

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On Dec 29, 4:48*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 01:33:17 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The weight of the on board capacitors would in itself be an energy
store (kinetic energy).

And how do they get up to speed - magic pixie beans?


Stupid boy. You don't get anything for nothing.
But storing kinetic energy is far more efficient than charging/
discharging batteries.

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"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

[Snip]

And I'm saying it is in the main nonsense. The industries were already
dead on their feet due to massive under investment

[Snip]

when a company invests in a facility it expects to see a return on the
capital invested.

But they were not investing.

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On Dec 29, 5:13*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"charles" wrote in message

...

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total recharge no
more than lining up at petrol pumps.

And what sort of power source would you need for this?
Every "filling station" would need to be in the Mw range.

Lets have green public transport
 

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2011 18:14, dennis@home wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

I would ask what you do if that industrial action results in improved
pay
or conditions, etc. Do you turn them down?

The unions demand sole rights to negotiate pay and conditions so you
can't turn them down.

*For their members*

As a non-member, I have the choice of accepting the union rates,
negotiating my own rates or leaving.

Not in any unionised work place I have worked in.
You can not negotiate,

Nothing is stopping you approaching the management for higher pay.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 29, 5:26*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message

...





Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *hugh ] wrote:
A bit like having ~15% of the workforce voting for a strike and
calling everyone out.

"Voting" was by show of hands with heavies in the
* crowd to make sure everyone's hand went up.

Total ********. The very idea a few heavies could force the majority of
hairy arsed blokes to do something they didn't want to is laughable.

It wasn't the heavies in the crowd that forced people to vote

Oh **** off!!! *You are naive.

So why *were* so many union votes strangely unanimous?

These loonies think the whole of the problems of the UK was unions - they
were fed an obvious right-wing corporate lie and sucked it in. *Such
fools. Easy manipulation is what they are. *Unions never did anything.
They have had no power.

The problems of UK industry were not *all* to do with the unions.

None of it was to do with unions. *Never was. I notice no one blamed them
for the Credit Crunch. I'm sure they were trying to find an angle so the
gullible like yourself would suck it in.

In the nationalised industries there was bad management, poor strategic
planning and union leaders

The brainwashing keeps surfacing.

All this changed almost overnight when Thatcher and the Tories passed laws
limiting the unions' powers.

People like you are so dumb, uninformed and naive. *Thatcher and Reagan
off-shored manufacturing to rig the free-market. They rigged LABOUR! *Three
factors of production:

1. LAND (and resources)
2. LABOUR
3. CAPITAL

Wealth comes from all three when applied at once.

The free-market works well when these are NOT rigged. Idiot Thatcher rigged
LABOUR in the above. *We are still suffering the effects of the idiot now.
Thatcher & Reagan were indirectly responsible for the CC. *The devastation
of the USA Rust Belt and the industrial hearts of the UK was a result of
those two fools - yet the naive followed them

Look at an overview of how the current situation occurred .Thatcher and
Reagan are clearly responsible. *They were so successful in reducing LABOUR
costs by off-shoring manufacturing to China, that the demand fell, so they
went for easy credit to create demand. *Any Tom, Dick & Harry could get a
pile of Credit Cards.

Look:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0- Hide quoted text -



I have never borrowed money for any reason so keep my name out of it!

The unions thought they could topple the government and geta labour
gov.in.
They were wrong.
Labour govs. have always f****d up the economy.
It is a failed concept.

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"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Possibly until he drove it.

When driving it. He was screeching about the acceleration.

You *have* watched the whole review, haven't you? Including the
bits where Clarkson notes that *both* test vehicles failed during
the test?

The point was not the quality of manufacture, it was the
performance.

FFS. Both batteries failed. Nothing to do with quality, but a
fundamental flaw. Perhaps not in a pedestrian vehicle like all other
electric cars - but in one sold purely as a sports car?

Did the batteries fail - or just run out of charge?

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/electric-shocker

The programme (not made by the BBC) has a clear agenda. Every eco, clean
advancement is ignored or slagged. Every gas guzzling monster is lauded. IT
is so overt that it raises alarm bells.

It says under the video:

"LEGAL NOTICE: This programme is now the subject of legal proceedings for
defamation and malicious falsehood brought by Tesla Motors Ltd and Tesla
Motors Inc against the BBC."

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On Dec 29, 5:28*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in ...

In article ,
* Doctor Drivel wrote:
Do you go 125mph for hours on end? *Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of
the Tesla.

After the two they tested broke down? I think not.

Again for fools: "Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of the Tesla."

I remember that programme. The Tesla was so heavy due to the
batteries, it wouldn't go round corners.

Lets have green public transport
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 5:13 pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"charles" wrote in message

...

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total recharge
no
more than lining up at petrol pumps.

And what sort of power source would you need for this?
Every "filling station" would need to be in the Mw range.


Large supercap banks.

Lets have green public transport
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 4:48 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 01:33:17 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The weight of the on board capacitors would in itself be an energy
store (kinetic energy).

And how do they get up to speed - magic pixie beans?


Stupid boy. You don't get anything for nothing.
But storing kinetic energy is far more efficient than charging/
discharging batteries.


Mr Harry, you do have a point.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Do you go 125mph for hours on end? Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of
the Tesla.

After the two they tested broke down? I think not.

Again for fools: "Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of the Tesla."

http://www.dionic.net/_images/drivelprius.png

He screeching, "this biblically quick"

Lets have green public transport
 

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
You 'witnessed' it from inside the union? If so, why didn't you do
something about it?

Don't jump to conclusions

It's a fair enough comment. If I had witnessed any intimidation from
either union 'side' I hope I'd have done something about it. But I never
have done. Only heated debate.

Did you ever vote against the union in one of these show of hands?

A strike is the last resort for a union. They would have exhausted all
avenues.

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"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...


I can see whay Maxie thinks you are a plantpot.

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On Dec 29, 6:12*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"hugh" ] wrote in message

...

A responsible trade union leadership

A responsible electorate would want full political PR then the Tories would
be blown into oblivion.


It has been demonstrated that they don't want PR.
We'd end up like Italy.
Only minority parties want PR.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 29, 6:19*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"hugh" ] wrote in message

...





In message ,
lid writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops,
it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions
have *been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin
the *company. *I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that
a few *trouble makers can 'lead' the majority like sheep is
laughable.

It is not.

I can recommend a good book -The Parallel Lives of Hitler and Stalin.
Fascinating how two men rose to dictatorial power by completely
different *approaches.

The British establishement are cleverr. They do it by very different
means. Tony Benn.

By the end of the 1970s, Benn had migrated to the left-wing of the Labour
Party. He attributed this political shift to his experience as a Cabinet
Minister in the 1964-1970 Labour Government. Benn wrote:

"As a minister, I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to
get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even
blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure
brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule. This power was
revealed even more clearly in 1976 when the IMF secured cuts in our public
expenditure. These lessons led me to the conclusion that the UK is only
superficially governed by MPs and the voters who elect them.Parliamentary
democracy is, in truth, little more than a means of securing a periodical
change in the management team, which is then allowed to preside over a
system that remains in essence intact. If the British people were ever to
ask themselves what power they truly enjoyed under our political system
they would be amazed to discover how little it is, and some new Chartist
agitation might be born and might quickly gather momentum."

Note:
"These lessons led me to the conclusion that the UK is only superficially
governed by MPs and the voters who elect them.Parliamentary democracy is,
in truth, little more than a means of securing a periodical change in the
management team, which is then allowed to preside over a system that
remains in essence intact."

So the word of Benn is irrefutable?

I would say so, yes.

Benn was sore because he lost his argument with Healey over North Sea

You are silly.

Ben says that only of the poor got out and voted for those who present their
interest would matters change,. *They demoralised. Michael Moore took this
on board and had a get and vote campaign in the USA.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Poor = idle.

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"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/12/2011 18:25, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...

And the Ampera won't be as much fun.

Try the Tesla then. Or the new Jag with microturbine range extender.

We've covered the Tesla's limited range

200 miles. More with then latest batteries.

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"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-29, Andy Champ wrote:
On 29/12/2011 18:25, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...

And the Ampera won't be as much fun.

Try the Tesla then. Or the new Jag with microturbine range extender.

We've covered the Tesla's limited range - and you seem to agree that
it's only a weekend toy, as you haven't answered any of the charging
current messages - and I can't afford a Jag.

Don't worry, no-one can. You see, it doesn't exist, other than as
a non-functioning prototype.

The Jag will be in production - official announcement.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 29, 6:23*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message

...





On 29/12/2011 17:37, hugh wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
Oh **** off!!! You are naive.

So why *were* so many union votes strangely unanimous?

Apart from committee meetings, I've never ever seen a unanimous vote
anywhere. As not everyone entitled to vote ever does.

We are talking about the mass meetings of the 60s and early seventies
and voting was by show of hands.

Just watch the newsreels of the day. You don't see many hands down, and
none against.

So 5000 thugs with guns in the backs of another 5000 made the vote. YOU are
THICK!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Only the "in favour" ones are likely to turn up at a meeting.

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"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article

If so, why didn't you take some action?

I did, I wrote a letter of complaint. The letter was, of course, ignored.

I am not surprised. The different coloured crayon would have put them off.

I'd seen it myself first hand. "join the union". "no thanks". "join the
union you ****ing **** or Harry here will break your ****ing arm".

You have just told lies.

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On Dec 29, 6:26*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andy Champ" wrote in message

. uk...

On 29/12/2011 17:13, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
.. .

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total
recharge no more than lining up at petrol pumps.

How many is a few minutes? What's that in watts? *And how much power needs
to be delivered to the charging station to do half a dozen cars at once?

Overnight storage using supercaps.

Dope. How do you charge the "supercaps"? Even if it were feasible.
(Which it isn't)

Lets have green public transport
 

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2011 09:53, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 23/12/2011 14:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Doctor wrote:
You are missing the whole point. It is not a plug in hybrid in the
previous sense.
The engine is not mechanically connected to the drive train. It's
like an electric car but you carry round a petrol generator to charge
the battery when required. Engine runs at constant speed.

Using a highly taxed fuel to generate electricity? Very logical.

I've wondered about this. If you have an electric vehicle and charge
it at home using a generator, then you can use untaxed fuel.

Charging from the mains is cheaper.

But not much use if you want to travel longer distances.

Dork, you have range extender if you constant.go long distances. Once the
charging infrastructure is in then no probs.

Lets have green public transport
 

wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Do you go 125mph for hours on end? Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of
the Tesla.

After the two they tested broke down? I think not.

Again for fools: "Even idiot Clarkson was in awe of the Tesla."

http://www.dionic.net/_images/drivelprius.png

He screeching, "this biblically quick"

That's you, that is. In your Prius. With your "date".

That grimmaced look on your face: that's you willing it to move after the
batteries died.


--
Tim Watts

Lets have green public transport
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 6:26 pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andy Champ" wrote in message

. uk...

On 29/12/2011 17:13, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
.. .

and how long do I have to spend at a recharging point?

With the Toshiba batteries, 80% recharge in a few minutes. Total
recharge no more than lining up at petrol pumps.

How many is a few minutes? What's that in watts? And how much power
needs
to be delivered to the charging station to do half a dozen cars at once?

Overnight storage using supercaps.

Dope. How do you charge the "supercaps"? Even if it were feasible.
(Which it isn't)


Fool, you stop making things up.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some are getting 200-300 mile range

By using their other car?

--
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I would be too of a company so crass as to offer a sports car for test
on a track when they both broke down. They plainly expected some form
of fawning review like you'd do - not the truth.

Apparently they never broke down.

Oh, but they did. I have a pal who worked on that episode.

Top Gear are on back-hinders (not made by
the BBC) from auto and oil companies. Its bias makes it so obvious.

Who are you on a back-hinder (sic) from? Or does all the rubbish you spout
come from your own head?

--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The point was not the quality of manufacture, it was the performance.

FFS. Both batteries failed.

The better batteries are now available which they did not use.

Why would Tesla loan cars to be tested by Top Gear with faulty batteries?

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It says under the video:

"LEGAL NOTICE: This programme is now the subject of legal proceedings
for defamation and malicious falsehood brought by Tesla Motors Ltd and
Tesla Motors Inc against the BBC."

That'll give the BBC lawyers a few sleepless seconds...

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article
,
harry wrote:
I have never borrowed money for any reason so keep my name out of it!

Perhaps you should to get out of that rented property?

The unions thought they could topple the government and geta labour
gov.in.

Did they now. So you are against any form of action by anyone which might
effect an election?

They were wrong.
Labour govs. have always f****d up the economy.
It is a failed concept.

Strange. My memory gives a constantly rising standard of living and
financial stability for much of the 15 years or so of the last labour
government. Not the dire position the country is now in. Wonder just how
long Cameron will carry on blaming everyone else for this?

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It says under the video:

"LEGAL NOTICE: This programme is now the subject of legal proceedings
for defamation and malicious falsehood brought by Tesla Motors Ltd and
Tesla Motors Inc against the BBC."

That'll give the BBC lawyers a few sleepless seconds...

The libel element of the case has been rejected, and a ruling on the
falsehood element is due shortly

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ot-libel-tesla

Lets have green public transport
 

In article
,
Steve Firth wrote:
Of course the heavies still rule at conference. I know an elderly female
shop steward who was bullied mercilessly by the heavies because she
dared to vote as instructed by her members and not according to the
diktat of committee members.

Were you there to see it happening?

No.

If so, why didn't you take some action?

I did, I wrote a letter of complaint. The letter was, of course,
ignored. So were several follow-up letters. A fax got a response - a
statement that the matter would be investigated. Later I got a letter
saying there was no case to answer.

I've known lots of shop stewards over the ages - but never one incapable
of standing up for themselves. It is not a job for the faint of heart, as
you get criticism from both sides.

The statement was a lie.

The snag is you've apparently only got her word for it.

The character of the person intimidated by the bullies was impeccable
and,as a life-long unionist and Labour Party supporter she had no axe to
grind. Well not until experiencing the reality of union bully boy tactics
first hand.

If she were carrying out the instructions of her shop and some didn't like
it she had plenty of options to discipline them. Although I've never known
them needed. A decent shop steward will also have good relations with
management on a personal level.

I'd seen it myself first hand. "join the union". "no thanks". "join the
union you ****ing **** or Harry here will break your ****ing arm".

You seem to have that effect on many. ;-)

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some are getting 200-300 mile range

By using their other car?

You are a plantpot.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I would be too of a company so crass as to offer a sports car for test
on a track when they both broke down. They plainly expected some form
of fawning review like you'd do - not the truth.

Apparently they never broke down.

Oh, but they did.

You are a plantpot.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The point was not the quality of manufacture, it was the performance.

FFS. Both batteries failed.

The better batteries are now available which they did not use.

Why would Tesla loan cars to be tested by Top Gear with faulty batteries?

You are a plantpot.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
It says under the video:

"LEGAL NOTICE: This programme is now the subject of legal proceedings
for defamation and malicious falsehood brought by Tesla Motors Ltd and
Tesla Motors Inc against the BBC."

That'll give the BBC lawyers a few sleepless seconds...

The libel element of the case has been rejected, and a ruling on the
falsehood element is due shortly

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ot-libel-tesla

I just read that and Tesla have valid points. If Top Gear get off it is a
total stich up.