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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:


But the Volt can do 60 mile.

Even the ads don't claim that. Try 25 miles.

Plantpot.

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Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Jules Richardson" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:51:58 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:
To be fair, he never understood the meaning of "when in a hole, stop
digging". His village has lots of tunnels.

... but only one idiot :-)

You are on the short list. Be prepared to move house.

Says the bloke that goes to work on the short bus.

--
Adam

Lets have green public transport
 

Jules Richardson wrote:
What's the maximum height allowable on a UK railway? Around here they
stick the entire* loaded lorry trailer onto the train and all that's
needed at the destination is the tractor unit to haul it; the loading and
unloading operation is quick and easy. I suspect there's just not the
clearance under bridges etc. to do that in the UK though :-(

Between 3600 and 4150 mm depending on where you are and how long the
rolling stock is, with a maximum load height of about a metre less.
maximum width is 2600 mm. Freight trains can carry containers or loose
loads only. Railways on mainland Eurpoe are not much bigger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading...#Great_Britain

* and mile-long trains with shipping containers stacked one atop the
other aren't unusual, either. I'm glad that lot doesn't end up on the
roads.

The only really long trains we can run are limited to the Channel
Tunnel, and those are about half a mile long. Container trains are about
a third of a mile, and they can only carry two forty foot containers on
each of their thirty trucks. A train a mile long would totally foul up
most of the signalling systems, as the shortest signalling block is
about half a mile.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
polygonum wrote:

Lost of oil, but not sweet.


Is that Shakespeare?

Not yet, the monkeys are still typing though.

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"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...


I think Dave was talking about the sort of fast and enthusiastically that
adults can get from driving real cars, not the sort of experience you had
on the bumper cars at Great Yarmouth when you were six.


Some in this group are still trying to get that experience when they drive.

Lets have green public transport
 

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
.. .

Plus the NMU under Scargill insisted that all pits were kept open
whether economic or not.

They were "all" economic as they crated economic growth which is
not qualified by the selling price of the coal, as London Tube's
prices are not qualified by the ticket price. Take away the Tube
and London collapses. Run on ticket sales only and most stations
will close down charging £12 per trip.

I see economics is your weak spot.

And I see it's a fantasy world for you.

You do not a clue about economics. What appears on the surface as
"uneconomic" is not. DO NOT read the Daily Mail

No it's the underground coal that is uneconomic. Opencast is profitable.

Deep coals is economic, open cast more economic.


Think about it - you just don't get it do you.
--
hugh

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In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
How do you explain to each and every member of staff in a large company
how any pay rise etc is arrived at? By letter?

Well these were quite young small companies...

Usually far less need for a union in those as everyone should know
everyone else.

Also, a member of staff with a grievance or whatever is likely being
happier talking it over with a colleague who is a member of that union
rather than a manager. The rep can then put across the point - likely
without the heat of the previous scenario.


Never knew anyone who had one. The pay was good conditions good, staff
treated like human beings. Management were as often as not likely to be
buying rounds in the pub after work. People wanted to work there and
enjoyed it..

Somehow, I don't think that happened in the companies we were talking
about. Management thought their job was only to manage - ie to get the
most out of the workforce for the least possible money/effort. Ie maximum
profit at all costs. If they have that attitude, you can't really blame a
workforce from taking the exact opposite one.


Of course none of that would be needed with a perfectly run company. But
being run by humans, most unlikely.


Course I never worked for the likes of BT or a large nationalised firm
that I could imagine wouldn't be anywhere near the same;(.

I did have a uncle who worked in a large factory up North, he hated the
management there with a large vengeance....

Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.
--
hugh

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

A bit like having ~15% of the workforce voting for a strike and calling
everyone out.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble
makers can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

A bit like having ~15% of the workforce voting for a strike and calling
everyone out.

Well, you might ask what percentage of those eligible to vote in any
election vote for a particular party.

It always seems strange to me that politicians find it wrong when there's
not an absolute majority for industrial action - yet happily take their
seat when very very few - if any - have had the majority voting for them.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lets have green public transport
 

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

I was in Coventry in the 60s. I witnessed it at first hand. You are
extremely naive in your views on what agitators can achieve.
--
hugh

Lets have green public transport
 

In message om,
"dennis@home" writes


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

A bit like having ~15% of the workforce voting for a strike and calling
everyone out.


"Voting" was by show of hands with heavies in the
crowd to make sure everyone's hand went up.
--
hugh

Lets have green public transport
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

It is not.

Lets have green public transport
 

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
. ..

Plus the NMU under Scargill insisted that all pits were kept open
whether economic or not.

They were "all" economic as they crated economic growth which is not
qualified by the selling price of the coal, as London Tube's prices
are not qualified by the ticket price. Take away the Tube and London
collapses. Run on ticket sales only and most stations will close down
charging £12 per trip.

I see economics is your weak spot.

And I see it's a fantasy world for you.

You do not a clue about economics. What appears on the surface as
"uneconomic" is not. DO NOT read the Daily Mail

No it's the underground coal that is uneconomic. Opencast is profitable.

Deep coals is economic, open cast more economic.

Think about it - you just don't get it do you.

You have no idea whatsoever being a Daily Mail reader.

Lets have green public transport
 

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the company.

This half-wit sucked in and still does, the Reds under the bed nonsense
spouted by the Daily Mail, et al. Since the fall of the USSR there has been
no evidence that anything ever existed.

Lets have green public transport
 

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...

"Voting" was by show of hands with heavies in the
crowd to make sure everyone's hand went up.

You made that up.

Lets have green public transport
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble
makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

It is not.

Says a snotty uni man.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:37:13 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
So it's not designed to be driven fast or even enthusiastically?

Yes, if you want to.

I think Dave was talking about the sort of fast and enthusiastically that
adults can get from driving real cars, not the sort of experience you had
on the bumper cars at Great Yarmouth when you were six.

I have never been to Great Yarmouth.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:21:50 -0000 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Prius is also brilliant to drive. - seamless, no step up or down
gear changes. Passengers love it.

That is certainly true - drives like a mini limousine.

Wonder what you mean by limousine? One of those stretched Hummer things?

Which is why it would not appeal to BMW M3 drivers.

Or anyone who enjoys driving.

If you enjoy FAST driving get a Tesla. A Vauxhall Ampera will rock your
socks off and do it silently and seamlessly. Zooooooooooooooom

Reviews:
What Car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9VjvOP9kqM

What Car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8ESf...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=962TolRH3xM

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On Dec 27, 5:46*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote in message

...





In article , funkyoldcortina
scribeth thus
On 20/12/11 10:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
* * *wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16244634

"It was later established that the bus had run out of diesel."

Just like a Pious, then. Half decent fuel consumption in start stop town
traffic, but far worse than a conventional vehicle at near steady speed
motorway, etc, work.

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional
petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed you can ease off
the
pedal and the electric motor does most of the work to keep you at-speed,
requiring much lower power output from the engine.

So err, the electrical power is free of charge then;?....

What he means is that it will be on part load and energy normally wasted
would be used to charge the battery, which will mean the electric motor will
come in on accelerating on the Mway or just cuts in to assist when battery
is charged - management system decides.

The engine is running at optimum to what the conditions are. It is well
known that engines specifically designed for gennies and designed to run at
constant speeds are far more efficient than variable speed engines. *Lotus
have designed a small aluminium 3 cylinder engine for general sale to any
maker for gennies in hybrid cars, running at two speeds, depending on load.
The engine is multi-fuel.

Where they improved a lot is in the lith-ion batteries and smaller more
efficient electric motors. *Toshiba have set up sales offices to sell their
latest battery:,,,
Read on..... Temperatures as low as -30C Wow! *I need one now!!! :) .......

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

* Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
* Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in 10 Minutes, 90% in 5
Minutes
* Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-Discharge Cycles
* Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
* High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
* Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
* Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market segments.

Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety. Additional
packs are under development.
--------

This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around for most cars and a small range extender for some
longer range vehicles in remote parts of the world. *Use a specifically
designed engine on a generator set and the combustion engine will rarely cut
in.

Toshiba claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather
have supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out, they are more efficient as there is no
state change inefficiencies when charging or discharging.

Other applications for these batteries? Planes of course. CHP (cogen) in
homes? Roof mounted PV cells can charge them up and use the energy later.
The same with boats with cells on the roofs. Battery power tools comes to
mind. In a minutes and the drill is charged again.

Mass production will get the prices down. They could be retrofitted to
existing hybrid cars when their battery sets require replacing. This will
transform many of them.

The Internal Combustion Engines gennies are big and heavy and pollute far
more than the turbines. The heat is concentrated in the exhaust in a turbine
making it easier extracting heat for other uses.

A lot is is going for the turbines:

- small
- powerful
- uses less fuel
- light
- simple
- far more reliable
- should be cheaper to make one mass production is applied.
- etc

They should be fine for turbine/electric trains. In overground urban trains
using a battery/supercapacitor set as a buffer for acceleration and
claw-back braking energy, they should work well. These trains stop and start
constantly. And a cheaper alternative to expensive electrification.

In boats they shine in that they are very small. *Lith-ion batteies, and the
new Toshiba?, store twice as much energy per size than others. *So a bank of
Lith-ion low down to even out weight dstribution, maximising space.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Turbines are very inefficient, especially small ones.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 27, 11:31*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
* *hugh ] wrote:

Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.


The "no" voters tend just not to vote. That's when the problem arises.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 28, 7:28*am, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"hugh" ] wrote in message

...

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the company.

This half-wit sucked in and still does, the Reds under the bed nonsense
spouted by the Daily Mail, et al. *Since the fall of the USSR there has been
no evidence that anything ever existed.

Harold Wilson was in the pay of Moscow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_...acy_theori es

Explains a lot.

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"harry" wrote in message
...

Turbines are very inefficient, especially small ones.

Stop making things up. No so as they are being implemented right now.
Hybrid buses in USA, NZ and in Newcastle run on them.

Lets have green public transport
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 27, 11:31 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:

Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.

The "no" voters tend just not to vote. That's when the problem arises.


Like in normal political elections then?

Lets have green public transport
 

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 7:28 am, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"hugh" ] wrote in message

...

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions have
been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

This half-wit sucked in and still does, the Reds under the bed nonsense
spouted by the Daily Mail, et al. Since the fall of the USSR there has
been
no evidence that anything ever existed.

Harold Wilson was in the pay of Moscow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_...acy_theori es

Explains a lot.


It explains sweet FA. A right-wing "conspiracy theory". You are naive.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
hugh ] wrote:
Sadly all too common. But when a 'them and us' situation develops, it's
usually the fault of the management.

Unless, as was the case in the motor industry in the 60s the unions
have been infiltrated by communists whose avowed intent is to ruin the
company.

I take it you've never been in a union? The idea that a few trouble makers
can 'lead' the majority like sheep is laughable.


it even happened in the ABS!

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

Lets have green public transport
 

In article , Doctor Drivel
?@?.? scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus

"dennis@home" wrote in message
aweb.com...


"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed
you
can ease off the pedal and the electric motor does most of the work to
keep you at-speed, requiring much lower power output from the engine.

Well that's plain rubbish.
If the electric motor is doing the work then it has to get its energy
from
somewhere.
It can't be the battery or it would go flat.

Engine braking and wheel braking put energy back into the battery
reclaiming
otherwise wasted energy. The Prius is old hat now - 1997. The Volt and
the
new Volt, Lotus/Jaguar designs are the way now.

Kinetic energy is best reclaimed using supercapacitors -

electric trains use
these.

Which ones, any in the UK?...

In Germany and experimental in UK. Some have the capacitor bank on the side
of the track rather that on the train.


And just how many kilowatts hours does one of they hold then?..
--
Tony Sayer

Lets have green public transport
 

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel
?@?.? scribeth thus
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus
"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed
you
can ease off the pedal and the electric motor does most of the work to
keep you at-speed, requiring much lower power output from the engine.
Well that's plain rubbish.
If the electric motor is doing the work then it has to get its energy
from
somewhere.
It can't be the battery or it would go flat.
Engine braking and wheel braking put energy back into the battery
reclaiming
otherwise wasted energy. The Prius is old hat now - 1997. The Volt and
the
new Volt, Lotus/Jaguar designs are the way now.

Kinetic energy is best reclaimed using supercapacitors -
electric trains use
these.
Which ones, any in the UK?...
In Germany and experimental in UK. Some have the capacitor bank on the side
of the track rather that on the train.


And just how many kilowatts hours does one of they hold then?..

think watt seconds.

They are power factor correction devices.

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

Lets have green public transport
 

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 07:35:02 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:37:13 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
So it's not designed to be driven fast or even enthusiastically?

Yes, if you want to.

I think Dave was talking about the sort of fast and enthusiastically
that adults can get from driving real cars, not the sort of experience
you had on the bumper cars at Great Yarmouth when you were six.

I have never been to Great Yarmouth.

Well then, that just proves that you have no idea what you're talking
about.

Lets have green public transport
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
?@?.? scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus

"dennis@home" wrote in message
raweb.com...


"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed
you
can ease off the pedal and the electric motor does most of the work
to
keep you at-speed, requiring much lower power output from the engine.

Well that's plain rubbish.
If the electric motor is doing the work then it has to get its energy
from
somewhere.
It can't be the battery or it would go flat.

Engine braking and wheel braking put energy back into the battery
reclaiming
otherwise wasted energy. The Prius is old hat now - 1997. The Volt and
the
new Volt, Lotus/Jaguar designs are the way now.

Kinetic energy is best reclaimed using supercapacitors -

electric trains use
these.

Which ones, any in the UK?...

In Germany and experimental in UK. Some have the capacitor bank on the
side
of the track rather that on the train.

And just how many kilowatts hours does one of they hold then?..

Depends on the capacitors and how many are banked. The knock on effect is
that overhead line cables can be thinner is supercaps are on-board as less
power for acceleration (where most current needed) as supcaps give all their
energy to the motors directly.

The original 1997 Toyota Prius was to have a supercap bank and not
batteries. The idea was to reclaim kinetic braking energy and give it back
off immediately on acceleration. With supercaps there is no state change as
it stores electrical energy, as opposed to chemical energy in batteries, so
more efficient.

A combination of supercaps and batteries, like Tosh batteries, is probably
the best way at the mo' for cars. There has been great advances in
supercaps. The aim is to store the same energy as largish car battery in a
package of the same size. Then the conventional battery will be near
obsolete. They give off energy immediately and take it in immediately as it
is not chemically stored. Apart from the Tosh batteries. all charge &
discharge slowly.

So, a combination of small electric drive motors, supercaps, advanced
batteries and a small range extender will transform the car. All this
technology is here NOW, not a pipe dream. The Volt/Ampera is the way
forward. Expect Proton (Lotus) to come with a decent battery car with an
efficient range extender.

Lets have green public transport
 

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 07:35:02 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:37:13 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
So it's not designed to be driven fast or even enthusiastically?

Yes, if you want to.

I think Dave was talking about the sort of fast and enthusiastically
that adults can get from driving real cars, not the sort of experience
you had on the bumper cars at Great Yarmouth when you were six.

I have never been to Great Yarmouth.

Well then, that just proves that you have no idea what you're talking
about.

I am glad I do not know what I am on about when it comes to Great Yarmouth.

Lets have green public transport
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

--
Tim Watts

Lets have green public transport
 

Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the third
rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts on the
wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Lets have green public transport
 

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the third
rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts on the
wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

Third rail is only used in the South East and around Liverpool. The old
Liverpool Overhead Railway was the first to have Electric Multiple Units
(EMUs) - carriages with electric motors under the boards needing no loco.

Lets have green public transport
 

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the
third rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts
on the wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

Third rail is only used in the South East and around Liverpool. The old
Liverpool Overhead Railway was the first to have Electric Multiple Units
(EMUs) - carriages with electric motors under the boards needing no loco.

"The dockers' umbrella"

And we both forgot about the Glasgow Subway.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
says...

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the
third rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts
on the wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

Third rail is only used in the South East and around Liverpool. The old
Liverpool Overhead Railway was the first to have Electric Multiple Units
(EMUs) - carriages with electric motors under the boards needing no loco.

"The dockers' umbrella"

And we both forgot about the Glasgow Subway.

What about the Dinky Little Railway and its big brother, the London
Underground (with additional 4th return rail)?

--

Terry

Lets have green public transport
 

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the third
rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts on the
wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

Third rail is only used in the South East and around Liverpool. The old
Liverpool Overhead Railway was the first to have Electric Multiple Units
(EMUs) - carriages with electric motors under the boards needing no loco.

"The dockers' umbrella"

And we both forgot about the Glasgow Subway.

Yes, third rail. You need to be a midget to use the Subway - same with some
of London's lines. The Liverpool company that built the steelwork for the
Overhead Railway also did the prefabbed steelwork for the main station at
Buenos Aries - the largest building in the world at the time.

The Overhead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NArWKpSp0MU

Lets have green public transport
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..

DC down here...

You'll be darn sarf, then, or in Merseyside. 700 ±50 volts on the third
rail depending where you are exactly, as against 25 killer volts on the
wires, which is also used on the High Speed Channel tunnel link.

Third rail is only used in the South East and around Liverpool. The old
Liverpool Overhead Railway was the first to have Electric Multiple Units
(EMUs) - carriages with electric motors under the boards needing no loco.

I suspect that by using 3rd rail (which could have been ac - but wasn't) it
avoided the need to rebuild most of the bridges crossing the line. This
would have put up the cost of the project enormously and might have meant
it never happened.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 28, 1:22*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel
?@?.? scribeth thus
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus
"dennis@home" wrote in message
raweb.com...

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed
you
can ease off the pedal and the electric motor does most of the work to
keep you at-speed, requiring much lower power output from the engine.
Well that's plain rubbish.
If the electric motor is doing the work then it has to get its energy
from
somewhere.
It can't be the battery or it would go flat.
Engine braking and wheel braking put energy back into the battery
reclaiming
otherwise wasted energy. *The Prius is old hat now - 1997. *The Volt and
the
new Volt, Lotus/Jaguar designs are the way now.

Kinetic energy is best reclaimed using supercapacitors -
electric trains use
these.
Which ones, any in the UK?...
In Germany and experimental in UK. *Some have the capacitor bank on the side
of the track rather that on the train.

And just how many kilowatts hours does one of they hold then?..

think watt seconds.

They are power factor correction devices.

The trains run off AC. capacitors store DC only..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They would hardly be power factor correction devices mounted on the
trackside.

Lets have green public transport
 

On Dec 28, 2:15*pm, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote in message

...





In article , Doctor Drivel
?@?.? scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
scribeth thus

"dennis@home" wrote in message
raweb.com...

"funkyoldcortina" wrote in message
...

That's not true for the Prius. You still get better mpg than a
conventional petrol car on motorway trips, as once you're up to speed
you
can ease off the pedal and the electric motor does most of the work
to
keep you at-speed, requiring much lower power output from the engine.

Well that's plain rubbish.
If the electric motor is doing the work then it has to get its energy
from
somewhere.
It can't be the battery or it would go flat.

Engine braking and wheel braking put energy back into the battery
reclaiming
otherwise wasted energy. *The Prius is old hat now - 1997. *The Volt and
the
new Volt, Lotus/Jaguar designs are the way now.

Kinetic energy is best reclaimed using supercapacitors -

electric trains use
these.

Which ones, any in the UK?...

In Germany and experimental in UK. *Some have the capacitor bank on the
side
of the track rather that on the train.

And just how many kilowatts hours does one of they hold then?..

Depends on the capacitors and how many are banked. The knock on effect is
that overhead line cables can be thinner is supercaps are on-board as less
power for acceleration (where most current needed) as supcaps give all their
energy to the motors directly.

The original 1997 Toyota Prius was to have a supercap bank and not
batteries. The idea was to reclaim kinetic braking energy and give it back
off immediately on acceleration. With supercaps there is no state change as
it stores electrical energy, as opposed to chemical energy in batteries, so
more efficient.

A combination of supercaps and batteries, like Tosh batteries, is probably
the best way at the mo' for cars. *There has been great advances in
supercaps. The aim is to store the same energy as largish car battery in a
package of the same size. *Then the conventional battery will be near
obsolete. They give off energy immediately and take it in immediately as it
is not chemically stored. *Apart from the Tosh batteries. all charge &
discharge slowly.

So, a combination of small electric drive motors, supercaps, advanced
batteries and a small range extender will transform the car. All this
technology is here NOW, not a pipe dream. *The Volt/Ampera is the way
forward. Expect Proton (Lotus) to come with a decent battery car with an
efficient range extender.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A lot depends on how "leaky" these super capacitors are.