I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. To cut a long story short, she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence

On Nov 3, 8:44*pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. *It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. *It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. *To cut a long story short, *she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. *It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence


Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

On Nov 3, 8:44*pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. *It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. *It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. *To cut a long story short, *she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. *It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence

....yawn....

harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:44 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. To cut a long story short, she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence


Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

Depends on what you do for a living. I'd need to replace a couple of
hundred quids worth of street maps every year or so, as against about
ninety quid for a two year subscription to a Satnav service. The paper
maps are less accurate and up-to-date, too. If I want a paper map, then
for a small area, there's Google, but they're not so good for off-road
applications.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article , harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:44*pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. *It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. *It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. *To cut a long story short, *she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. *It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

You can buy relatively detailed road maps of the whole of Europe for a
GPS for a hell of a lot less than it would cost to have the same thing
on paper. Not to mention the trailer you would have to tow around to
hold all the paper maps.

Paper maps do have advantages for some applications though, obviously.
(Never needing a tech support person to talk you though a reinstall,
for one. :-) )

In article
,
harry wrote:
Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

You read a map while driving around a strange town? Or do you actually
drive at all?

--
*I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

You read a map while driving around a strange town?

We we used to have to!

I still keep a South Yorkshire map book in the car. It's easier to plan 4
different jobs in a reasonable travel order than a sat-nav (which now does
all my final directions).

--
Adam

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

You read a map while driving around a strange town?

We we used to have to!

Well, yes. We used to have to use call boxes to phone people when away
from home too. Things move on.

I still keep a South Yorkshire map book in the car. It's easier to plan
4 different jobs in a reasonable travel order than a sat-nav (which now
does all my final directions).

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

ARWadsworth wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

You read a map while driving around a strange town?

We we used to have to!

I still keep a South Yorkshire map book in the car. It's easier to
plan 4 different jobs in a reasonable travel order than a sat-nav
(which now does all my final directions).

On my TomTom (On a PDA) I use Itinerary planning, you select where you
want to go and the order you want to go to them, the TT just says which
roads to use to get to each place ..

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011.

On Nov 4, 9:34*am, John Williamson
wrote:
harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:44 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. *It wouldn't do anything and told me it had
no maps. *It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. *To cut a long story short, *she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. *It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence

Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

Depends on what you do for a living. I'd need to replace a couple of
hundred quids worth of street maps every year or so, as against about
ninety quid for a two year subscription to a Satnav service. The paper
maps are less accurate and up-to-date, too. If I want a paper map, then
for a small area, there's Google, but they're not so good for off-road
applications.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

later this year MemoryMap promise to have their OS maps configured for
Android so the rambling brigade can find their way cross country using
only a smartphone. Presently they only work on extortionally
expensive proprietary kit or obsolescent PDA's running Windows Pocket
PC.


rusty

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one. If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible. I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one.

Perhaps you never go anywhere new. And/or stick to motorways.

If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible.

Far cheaper than buying maps for the entire area they cover. And rather
more convenient.

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav instructions.
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving for other reasons
too. Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

--
*What hair colour do they put on the driver's license of a bald man? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one.

Perhaps you never go anywhere new. And/or stick to motorways.

If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible.

Far cheaper than buying maps for the entire area they cover. And
rather more convenient.

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav
instructions. But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

--
Adam

But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving for other reasons
too. Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.


I agree, and I think driving licences should only last 7 years before
re-appraisal.

David

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

No. Unless driving Chelsea tractors their husbands have bought for them
'for the kid's safety'. The very worst drivers are always blokes.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.

That's one hell of a memory if you can use it to take to a street that you
have never been to before!

I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one. If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible. I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

That was my view until a few years ago when I bought a SatNav. I still use
my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I let the SatNav do
the final few miles directions.

It has over the years come up with some surprising routes that I had not
thought about.


Of course we also have very good signposts in this coutry so why anyone
would need a SatNav for directions on a motorway is beyond me.

--
Adam

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:50:41 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one.

Perhaps you never go anywhere new. And/or stick to motorways.

If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible.

Far cheaper than buying maps for the entire area they cover. And
rather more convenient.

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav
instructions. But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

We went somewhere new yesterday and I got her to program the GPS. ;-)

My Mrs is probably a better biker than she is car driver.

Daughter has recently passed her car test (passed her bike test a
couple of years ago) and her first real trip was driving up to her
boyfriends parents place in Scotland (mit GPS of course).

Try asking a map where the nearest petrol station is, at night, in the
rain whilst wearing thick leather gloves and on a motorbike making
good progress.

Maps are still fun though but more as art or a hobby, or when planning
an intercontinental tour (or when you 'have to').


Driving at night and now lost.

See name of place on road sign.

Find somewhere safe to pull over and stop.

Search road map using interior light, struggling with tiny font index
for place. Not there.

Look for name of bigger place. Check index. Memorise page and grid.

Find page and grid location, not there. Re-check with Index. Get right
code, right page and grid.

Drop map, start again.

Repeat for destination.

Memorise line between dots and hope there are no diversions, wrong way
streets or major road changes.

Drive 5 miles. Stop and repeat ... or risk reading and driving ...
(and of course I 'managed' doing all that along with everyone else in
those days).

Versus, 'Find Postcode' Go Quickest ... 'Oh, ETA 17:15, oh, I
should make it in time then ...' ;-)

OOI, Is there a TomTom PC app (Garmin has a Windows one called
'Mapsource' that's a bit clunky but works and an equivalent for OSX)
that lets you see / plan routes / waypoints on your PC and then
transfer them to the GPS? Or upload tracklogs to the same app carrying
such information as speed and altitude for tiny increments of the
entire journey? And I mean to the PC app rather than Google maps or
some other Internetty solution?

And if so is there an equivalent for Linux (one of my biggest hurdles
to being able to use Linux as a daily desktop)?

Cheers, T i m

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

No. Unless driving Chelsea tractors their husbands have bought for
them 'for the kid's safety'. The very worst drivers are always blokes.

Once the school run mums are out the way then 10% of drivers are still
driving with vision that is so poor it would get them a ticket. We know
school run mums cannot see the no parking signs or the zigzags outside the
school but that is selective vision.

--
Adam

In article , ARWadsworth wrote:
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.

That's one hell of a memory if you can use it to take to a street that you
have never been to before!

You stop, look up the street in the A-Z, remember how to get there,
and follow the route you've remembered. It worked (mostly) before
we had satnavs and online mapping.

But it's bugger all use if you don't have an A-Z or similar for the
area you are heading for in the car, possibly because there isn't one....
(Though if you didn't know the street name when you set out,
presumably someone's phoned you to tell you where to go. They'd
better look up the directions for you too.)

T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:50:41 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one.

Perhaps you never go anywhere new. And/or stick to motorways.

If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price
was sensible.

Far cheaper than buying maps for the entire area they cover. And
rather more convenient.

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups
to want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav
instructions. But then there are lots around who shouldn't be
driving for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

We went somewhere new yesterday and I got her to program the GPS. ;-)

My Mrs is probably a better biker than she is car driver.

Daughter has recently passed her car test (passed her bike test a
couple of years ago) and her first real trip was driving up to her
boyfriends parents place in Scotland (mit GPS of course).

Try asking a map where the nearest petrol station is, at night, in the
rain whilst wearing thick leather gloves and on a motorbike making
good progress.


Let's hope the petrol station showing on the SatNav is now not a hand car
wash!

--
Adam

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:50:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

No. Unless driving Chelsea tractors their husbands have bought for them
'for the kid's safety'.

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/l...n d_1_3934874

:-)

--
Frank Erskine

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:12:42 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.

That's one hell of a memory if you can use it to take to a street that you
have never been to before!

I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one. If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible. I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

That was my view until a few years ago when I bought a SatNav. I still use
my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I let the SatNav do
the final few miles directions.

Yup, we would do the first few hundred miles on the way to our next
campsite (motorcycle touring) without a single wrong turn then sped
'ages' finding the actual campsite in some remote village.

The GPS then took us straight to the door. Quicker, safer and more
economical.

And that's only for the A to B stuff. When you are on your way to B
and you get the call to go there via F then there is nothing easier.

Find, Location. 'Would you like to make that a 'via'?' Yes, Go ..
;-)

Nope, our GPS's have saved so much time and so many arguments if I
lost them all I'd spend my last money on another.

It's nothing to do with dumbing down or not being able to manage ...
it's all to do with ease speed and efficiency (and all the other info
they give you access to like nearest hospital or other POI).

Of course, like any 'tool' they are dangerous in the wrong hands [1].
;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] And like tools there are good ones and bad ones. ie, My Garmins
have never tried to direct me off a motorway onto a non-junction road
that it happens to cross, unlike my mates TomTom Rider. Luckily he was
on a Motorcrosser ... ;-)

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
I still use my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I let
the SatNav do the final few miles directions.

Yup. My (old) TomTom takes the shortest route. This may not be the best
way when having to cross London at the start or end of a journey. But the
way it updates the route as you take your own preference is very useful.
I often visit my brother when he's on tour with his caravan. Caravan sites
may be easy to find when you're in the Caravan Club or whatever - but can
be a nightmare without instructions.
As can trying to follow an A to Z when it's dark. ;-)

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
I still use my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I
let the SatNav do the final few miles directions.

Yup. My (old) TomTom takes the shortest route. This may not be the
best way when having to cross London at the start or end of a
journey. But the way it updates the route as you take your own
preference is very useful. I often visit my brother when he's on tour
with his caravan. Caravan sites may be easy to find when you're in
the Caravan Club or whatever - but can be a nightmare without
instructions.


As can trying to follow an A to Z when it's dark. ;-)

But you could do that if needed. That's where the next generation will fail.

Say you were travelling from Kent to South Yorkshire and were on the M25 at
Dartford. You were going to take the M11 A14 (because the SatSav told you
to) but the radio reports said that the M11 was closed due to an accident. I
suspect that you would not have to look in a map book to make a good
alternative route.

Personally I would consider missing a caravan site by miles to be a bonus:-)


--
Adam

On Nov 4, 3:41*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
* *ARWadsworth wrote:

I still use my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I let
the SatNav do the final few miles directions.

Yup. My (old) TomTom takes the shortest route. This may not be the best
way when having to cross London at the start or end of a journey. But the
way it updates the route as you take your own preference is very useful.
I often visit my brother when he's on tour with his caravan. Caravan sites
may be easy to find when you're in the Caravan Club or whatever - but can
be a nightmare without instructions.
*As can trying to follow an A to Z *when it's dark. ;-)

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I agree, I tell SWMBO that the best thing about satnavs is that it
always knows where you want to be, so it doesn't matter one iota if
you take a wrong turning or need to divert because of roadworks etc.
TomToms in particular update so quickly and unfussily that if you
think you are going the right way and it disagrees it will simply go
along with you and sort the end game out.

Having said all of that, I also like to supplement with a quick view
of Google Streeview, for example for finding hotels on holiday.
Knowing that you've actually seen the building that you are heading
for, and perhaps the shops either side of it, really aids those final
few 100m or so when the satnav thinks you are there.

All things that maps don't do!

Matt

In article , therustyone wrote:

later this year MemoryMap promise to have their OS maps configured for
Android so the rambling brigade can find their way cross country using
only a smartphone. Presently they only work on extortionally
expensive proprietary kit or obsolescent PDA's running Windows Pocket
PC.

In the meantime, http://sites.google.com/site/mmtrackerinfo/
reads MemoryMap maps, runs on Android. I've only had a quick play with
the free version, but it certainly beats buying all the maps again.

(There are various apps that read OS maps from the free OS OpenData
service, but AIUI, if you want legal use of significant amounts of
OS map data without a data connection, the OS want a licence fee.)

On Nov 4, 3:32*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:50:41 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one.

Perhaps you never go anywhere new. And/or stick to motorways.

If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price
was sensible.

Far cheaper than buying maps for the entire area they cover. And
rather more convenient.

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups
to want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav
instructions. But then there are lots around who shouldn't be
driving for other reasons too.

Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

We went somewhere new yesterday and I got her to program the GPS. ;-)

My Mrs is probably a better biker than she is car driver.

Daughter has recently passed her car test (passed her bike test a
couple of years ago) and her first real trip was driving up to her
boyfriends parents place in Scotland (mit GPS of course).

Try asking a map where the nearest petrol station is, at night, in the
rain whilst wearing thick leather gloves and on a motorbike making
good progress.

Let's hope the petrol station showing on the SatNav is now not a hand car
wash!

That would depend on the age of the map (or how often the satnav info
is updated).
My A-Z or rather one of them left behind by my ex flatmate is quite
wrong.
The pub she used to strip in is now a muslim cultural centre.
If I check another map it seems my parents live near stratford goods
yard,
now it's the olympic site.




--
Adam

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:32:29 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


Try asking a map where the nearest petrol station is, at night, in the
rain whilst wearing thick leather gloves and on a motorbike making
good progress.


Let's hope the petrol station showing on the SatNav is now not a hand car
wash!


Ah well, on my Gamins at least the POI data often included a telephone
number so if you are that short of fuel you can often phone ahead and
find out.

Pre GPS and when going SE from Thurso to Dornoch 'she' indicated she
was just going onto reserve on her XV750. 60 miles later after not
seeing an open petrol station along the way she finally ran out. I
siphoned 1/2 of what I had left in the BMW (and I had daughter pillion
and was towing a trailer but it had a bigger tank) and we eventually
found an open station and were able to fill both bikes up phew.

Who knows how many just_off_the_main_drag petrol stations we passed
along the route? ;-(

Next time we had the GPS and it's never been an issue since. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:53:42 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
I still use my memory or a map book to get to the town I want but I
let the SatNav do the final few miles directions.

Yup. My (old) TomTom takes the shortest route. This may not be the
best way when having to cross London at the start or end of a
journey. But the way it updates the route as you take your own
preference is very useful. I often visit my brother when he's on tour
with his caravan. Caravan sites may be easy to find when you're in
the Caravan Club or whatever - but can be a nightmare without
instructions.


As can trying to follow an A to Z when it's dark. ;-)

But you could do that if needed. That's where the next generation will fail.

Not if they are suitably trained.

Pre GPS our daughter (8 years old at the time) was my navigator when
she was pillion and would give me direction confirmations over the
intercom. Taking the map out of the plastic bag, turning the page and
putting it back (at 70mph) also tuned her hand / eye coordination.We
did have to go back and pick up a torch once though (it was a Mini
Maglite and you never leave a downed man). ;-)

Say you were travelling from Kent to South Yorkshire and were on the M25 at
Dartford. You were going to take the M11 A14 (because the SatSav told you
to) but the radio reports said that the M11 was closed due to an accident. I
suspect that you would not have to look in a map book to make a good
alternative route.

Assuming the live traffic map had it in the system you can either make
those decisions yourself as they pop up or with 'Traffic avoidance'
enabled it would already be routing you around the problem. ;-)

Personally I would consider missing a caravan site by miles to be a bonus:-)

Depends how long you had been on the road for I guess. ;-)

We did turn up at one site (late, dark, raining (yes, we were in
England)) and were greeted with a 'No Motorcycles' sign? So we went
round the corner and found another and I asked the reception if they
were ok with Motorcycles. "No problems, *anyone* causes trouble they
get thrown out no matter what they came in on". ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Nov 4, 3:53*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
But you could do that if needed. That's where the next generation will fail.

That sound uncannily like what my maths teacher used to say when we
used to moan about having use slide rules and not being allowed to use
calculators.

Personally I would consider missing a caravan site by miles to be a bonus:-)

You might have a point there.

Matt

T i m wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:32:29 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


Try asking a map where the nearest petrol station is, at night, in
the rain whilst wearing thick leather gloves and on a motorbike
making good progress.


Let's hope the petrol station showing on the SatNav is now not a
hand car wash!


Ah well, on my Gamins at least the POI data often included a telephone
number so if you are that short of fuel you can often phone ahead and
find out.

Pre GPS and when going SE from Thurso to Dornoch 'she' indicated she
was just going onto reserve on her XV750. 60 miles later after not
seeing an open petrol station along the way she finally ran out. I
siphoned 1/2 of what I had left in the BMW (and I had daughter pillion
and was towing a trailer but it had a bigger tank) and we eventually
found an open station and were able to fill both bikes up phew.

Who knows how many just_off_the_main_drag petrol stations we passed
along the route? ;-(

Next time we had the GPS and it's never been an issue since. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

To be fair, you did a 70 mile journey and did 60 miles of it after the fuel
reserve warning light came on.

Nice planning.

--
Adam

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Personally I would consider missing a caravan site by miles to be a
bonus:-)

Not when my SIL is cooking. ;-)

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/11/2011 15:39, T i m wrote:

[1] And like tools there are good ones and bad ones. ie, My Garmins
have never tried to direct me off a motorway onto a non-junction road
that it happens to cross, unlike my mates TomTom Rider. Luckily he was
on a Motorcrosser ...;-)

Have you never been led down a single track road by your Garmin and
watched the ETA receding into the distance when the alternative single
carriageway road is only marginally longer and much quicker?

--
Roger Chapman

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 16:48:35 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


To be fair, you did a 70 mile journey and did 60 miles of it after the fuel
reserve warning light came on.

Quite, but isn't hindsight a lovely thing. ;-).

Many motorcycles didn't / don't come with fuel gauges so until the
light comes on you don't have an accurate idea of how much fuel you
have left before it does. Mine didn't even have a light, just reserve
taps.

We live in an area where petrol stations are regular and open nearly
24/7.

We had ridden up to Dornoch (over 800 miles) with no issues (with
loads of camps / stops / day trips and detours) and this was just a
'trip out' that day up to J.O.G. We started the trip with fairly full
(if not full) tanks. (We returned with about 2000 miles on the clock
and hadn't had any issues the 1500 miles on our Southern trip (L.E.)
the year before).

We didn't remember seeing anything in Thurso nor going back towards
J.O.G. so 'pushed on back to Dornoch as there weren't any
'certainties' behind us (there were a couple of petrol stations but
this was a Sunday evening and they weren't open).

We did pass a couple of petrol stations on the road back but again,
closed.

We had AA recovery and mobile phones.

The BMW had enough fuel to get back to civilisation.

The road wasn't completely deserted (but close).

So I feel we had done enough under the circumstances and the only
things we could have done differently would have been:

Filled up on the way until we could guarantee we had enough fuel to
get back. However, we hadn't planned the trip to Dunnet when we got to
J.O.G.

Not gone on from J.O.G. to Thurso (well, we actually went to Dunnet
Head but carried on as it was a quicker way back, ~70 v ~90 miles) and
we both would probably have made it back ok.

Not gone out for a trip returning on a Sunday evening in the NE most
part of Scotland.

Filled the trailer up with petrol. ;-)

Left the Mrs where she ran out as a lesson to her to get a bike that
holds more than 3 gallons and does more than 50 mpg.

Had a GPS with us. 'Find Nearest Fuel / Services'.

We may have actually made it back with the surplus fuel from the BMW
as I think we were only ~20 miles away and I could have had a couple
of gallons left if we had filled up and done the same miles together
(we had been doing). 1 gallon each would have got us back easily, had
we been exactly sure where we were (we had a map but with us but
because we knew the route we hadn't been taking much notice of it).

But you live and learn eh. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:19:55 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:

On 04/11/2011 15:39, T i m wrote:

[1] And like tools there are good ones and bad ones. ie, My Garmins
have never tried to direct me off a motorway onto a non-junction road
that it happens to cross, unlike my mates TomTom Rider. Luckily he was
on a Motorcrosser ...;-)

Have you never been led down a single track road by your Garmin and
watched the ETA receding into the distance when the alternative single
carriageway road is only marginally longer and much quicker?

No. ;-)

Most of my garmins have 'Vehicle type' as one of the setup fields and
we would normally have that set to 'Car' (even when on the
motorbikes). This ensures it wouldn't take you down one way streets or
ant road unsuitable for 'cars or bigger'. Secondly there is a slider
re how often you don't mind changing road types and another that goes
from tracks to Motorways. You can also tell it to avoid toll roads,
ferries, U turns etc.

If you put it on 'Pedestrian' then it will give you one way streets
(the wrong way if need be) and allies and tracks etc.

You also have 'Shortest / Fastest / Helicopter etc. ;-)

Many of the Garmins also allow you to display a maximum number of a
huge array of variables including a basic compass pointer to distance
to next turn / final to Dawn / Dusk and Altitude etc.

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:29:24 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving
for other reasons too.


Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.

Women?

No. Unless driving Chelsea tractors their husbands have bought for them
'for the kid's safety'. The very worst drivers are always blokes.

Once the school run mums are out the way then 10% of drivers are still
driving with vision that is so poor it would get them a ticket. We know
school run mums cannot see the no parking signs or the zigzags outside
the school but that is selective vision.

I used to walk up and down in front of the school, pretending to make
notes in a notebook. Wearing a navy blue all weather coat.

They soon moved on. Occasionally told me 'I have a smaller child with me
so I have to do this'; I often had too, but I still parked properly.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 04/11/2011 19:58, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:19:55 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:

On 04/11/2011 15:39, T i m wrote:

[1] And like tools there are good ones and bad ones. ie, My Garmins
have never tried to direct me off a motorway onto a non-junction road
that it happens to cross, unlike my mates TomTom Rider. Luckily he was
on a Motorcrosser ...;-)

Have you never been led down a single track road by your Garmin and
watched the ETA receding into the distance when the alternative single
carriageway road is only marginally longer and much quicker?

No. ;-)

Most of my garmins have 'Vehicle type' as one of the setup fields and
we would normally have that set to 'Car' (even when on the
motorbikes). This ensures it wouldn't take you down one way streets or
ant road unsuitable for 'cars or bigger'. Secondly there is a slider
re how often you don't mind changing road types and another that goes
from tracks to Motorways. You can also tell it to avoid toll roads,
ferries, U turns etc.

I used to have a Garmin sat-nav (Nuvi something or other) as I was
already familiar with a Garmin handheld and wanted one that would take
grid references rather than awkward lat/long. Despite having it set on
fastest route it used to drive me made with its diversions onto single
track roads which the program assumed I could drive as if they were
single carriageways. AFAICT it was predicting something like twice the
average speed that I could actually achieve unlike its performance on
better roads where I could usually arrive ahead of the initial ETA if I
didn't need to stop. I eventually gave it away and bought a Tom-Tom
which has been much better at finding the best route and provides an ETA
that allows me to take breaks every hour or two.

After the rubbish Garmin I was impressed by the Tom-Tom which even gave
directions at the appropriate time rather than so far in advance that
making the next turn was often the wrong option.

If you put it on 'Pedestrian' then it will give you one way streets
(the wrong way if need be) and allies and tracks etc.

You also have 'Shortest / Fastest / Helicopter etc. ;-)

I don't think mine had anything other than fastest, shortest and off
road. I never intended to use it off road but occasionally some of the
tracks it directed me down (which I baulked at) should have been
classified as such. I never got round to checking but those were
probably BOATs.

Many of the Garmins also allow you to display a maximum number of a
huge array of variables including a basic compass pointer to distance
to next turn / final to Dawn / Dusk and Altitude etc.

Much of that can be found on any sat-nav. One feature on the Tom-Tom
that I don't recall from the Nuvi is a continuous readout of the speed
together (most of the time) with the speed limit currently in force.


--
Roger Chapman

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:13:20 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:


I used to have a Garmin sat-nav (Nuvi something or other)

Yes, I have one of those .. I'd call it 'one of their later consumer
range'.

as I was
already familiar with a Garmin handheld and wanted one that would take
grid references rather than awkward lat/long.

Ok.

Despite having it set on
fastest route it used to drive me made with its diversions onto single
track roads which the program assumed I could drive as if they were
single carriageways.

Hmm?

AFAICT it was predicting something like twice the
average speed that I could actually achieve unlike its performance on
better roads where I could usually arrive ahead of the initial ETA if I
didn't need to stop.

Strange. I can't say I've had it that bad. I don't thing it's
'navigation' is as good as some of their older models though.

I eventually gave it away and bought a Tom-Tom
which has been much better at finding the best route and provides an ETA
that allows me to take breaks every hour or two.

Daughter was using a Garmin Nuvi up the A1 to Scotland (from Nth
London) and at about half way and at a rest stop she texted said it
had an ETA of 21:15. At 21:15 the phone rang telling us she had just
arrived? I can't say I've /ever/ have a Gamin offer an ETA that was
changed much over the entire journey, outside of traffic holdups or us
making informal diversions or stops etc.

After the rubbish Garmin I was impressed by the Tom-Tom which even gave
directions at the appropriate time rather than so far in advance that
making the next turn was often the wrong option.

Different brands / models do vary re that sort of thing I agree.
Again, my Garmins give instructions at varying distances from the turn
dependant on your speed. It often does so about 3 times (ignoring the
'next turn' prompt that could be hundred of miles ahead g) once, far
enough out to consider lanes, once again as you near the junction and
another at the junction itself?

If you put it on 'Pedestrian' then it will give you one way streets
(the wrong way if need be) and allies and tracks etc.

You also have 'Shortest / Fastest / Helicopter etc. ;-)

I don't think mine had anything other than fastest, shortest and off
road.

Yup, the Nuvi is a cheap, 'consumer' model (I paid just over £100 for
mine and it has bluetooth and lifetime free traffic support). The
Garmin GPS III+ I bought 10 years earlier was around £499 then and
didn't even have autorouting!. ;-)

I never intended to use it off road but occasionally some of the
tracks it directed me down (which I baulked at) should have been
classified as such. I never got round to checking but those were
probably BOATs.

Did you update the device or maps online out of interest?

Many of the Garmins also allow you to display a maximum number of a
huge array of variables including a basic compass pointer to distance
to next turn / final to Dawn / Dusk and Altitude etc.

Much of that can be found on any sat-nav.

I'll have to take your word for that. I've not even got anything like
that on some of my Garmins (especially the Nuvi).

One feature on the Tom-Tom
that I don't recall from the Nuvi is a continuous readout of the speed
together (most of the time) with the speed limit currently in force.

Yup, both on mine, along with traffic camera locations / warnings etc.

I find the Nuvi fine for everyday driving jobs. It's my only GPS with
full postcode search and so far it's not missed a beat , taken me the
wrong way or off a junction that doesn't exist. Daughter has even used
it for some GeoCaching although it's not really ideal for that (my GPS
V or Quest might have been better being more 'old skool').

Horses for courses though etc. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I'd like to get a TomTom (second hand, what model?) as I don't
think you can really decide until you have tried something in earnest.
Plus it's always interesting to see how the other side does it (and
why I also use OSX and Linux). ;-)

On 11/4/2011 12:30 PM, T i m wrote:

Pre GPS and when going SE from Thurso to Dornoch 'she' indicated she
was just going onto reserve on her XV750. 60 miles later after not
seeing an open petrol station along the way she finally ran out. I
siphoned 1/2 of what I had left in the BMW (and I had daughter pillion
and was towing a trailer but it had a bigger tank) and we eventually
found an open station and were able to fill both bikes upphew.

Who knows how many just_off_the_main_drag petrol stations we passed
along the route? ;-(

Between Thurso and Dornoch, even with GPS, you won't find many petrol
stations. (Can't find what doesn't exist!)
There are even fewer between Thurso and Durness.

On 04/11/2011 22:00, T i m wrote:

I used to have a Garmin sat-nav (Nuvi something or other)

Yes, I have one of those .. I'd call it 'one of their later consumer
range'.

as I was
already familiar with a Garmin handheld and wanted one that would take
grid references rather than awkward lat/long.

Ok.

Despite having it set on
fastest route it used to drive me made with its diversions onto single
track roads which the program assumed I could drive as if they were
single carriageways.

Hmm?

I assure you that that is what occurred. They may well have changed the
software in latter models but not on mine and I did check periodically
for software updates. Garmin also had a bug in the early etrex summit
that they denied for years before eventually refusing to do anything
about it. The handhelds at least up to the mid 00s which had car
direction software had the same problem as my Nuvi with single track roads.

AFAICT it was predicting something like twice the
average speed that I could actually achieve unlike its performance on
better roads where I could usually arrive ahead of the initial ETA if I
didn't need to stop.

Strange. I can't say I've had it that bad. I don't thing it's
'navigation' is as good as some of their older models though.

I eventually gave it away and bought a Tom-Tom
which has been much better at finding the best route and provides an ETA
that allows me to take breaks every hour or two.

Daughter was using a Garmin Nuvi up the A1 to Scotland (from Nth
London) and at about half way and at a rest stop she texted said it
had an ETA of 21:15. At 21:15 the phone rang telling us she had just
arrived? I can't say I've /ever/ have a Gamin offer an ETA that was
changed much over the entire journey, outside of traffic holdups or us
making informal diversions or stops etc.

But do you ever get onto single track roads?

After the rubbish Garmin I was impressed by the Tom-Tom which even gave
directions at the appropriate time rather than so far in advance that
making the next turn was often the wrong option.

Different brands / models do vary re that sort of thing I agree.
Again, my Garmins give instructions at varying distances from the turn
dependant on your speed. It often does so about 3 times (ignoring the
'next turn' prompt that could be hundred of miles aheadg) once, far
enough out to consider lanes, once again as you near the junction and
another at the junction itself?

If you put it on 'Pedestrian' then it will give you one way streets
(the wrong way if need be) and allies and tracks etc.

You also have 'Shortest / Fastest / Helicopter etc. ;-)

I don't think mine had anything other than fastest, shortest and off
road.

Yup, the Nuvi is a cheap, 'consumer' model (I paid just over £100 for
mine and it has bluetooth and lifetime free traffic support). The
Garmin GPS III+ I bought 10 years earlier was around £499 then and
didn't even have autorouting!. ;-)

I never bothered with a gps until they turned SA off so the etrex summit
was the first model I had (£263 in 2000).

FWIW I don't call £300 cheap. The Nuvi (in 06) was more than twice the
price of the Tom-Tom I replaced it with three and a half years later.

I never intended to use it off road but occasionally some of the
tracks it directed me down (which I baulked at) should have been
classified as such. I never got round to checking but those were
probably BOATs.

Did you update the device or maps online out of interest?

I checked for software updates but not maps. Roads don't change very
fast and maps seem inordinately expensive compared with the cost of a
brand new sat-nav.

Many of the Garmins also allow you to display a maximum number of a
huge array of variables including a basic compass pointer to distance
to next turn / final to Dawn / Dusk and Altitude etc.

Much of that can be found on any sat-nav.

I'll have to take your word for that. I've not even got anything like
that on some of my Garmins (especially the Nuvi).

One feature on the Tom-Tom
that I don't recall from the Nuvi is a continuous readout of the speed
together (most of the time) with the speed limit currently in force.

Yup, both on mine, along with traffic camera locations / warnings etc.

I find the Nuvi fine for everyday driving jobs. It's my only GPS with
full postcode search and so far it's not missed a beat , taken me the
wrong way or off a junction that doesn't exist. Daughter has even used
it for some GeoCaching although it's not really ideal for that (my GPS
V or Quest might have been better being more 'old skool').

Horses for courses though etc. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I'd like to get a TomTom (second hand, what model?) as I don't
think you can really decide until you have tried something in earnest.
Plus it's always interesting to see how the other side does it (and
why I also use OSX and Linux). ;-)

I have had mine for over 18 months now. I can't find the instruction
book to check the exact model but it is one of the XL range, no doubt
superseded by now.

I have just got a new handheld (memorymap adventurer 2800) and am having
trouble coming to terms with a very different animal to my previous
handhelds but after the Nuvi fiasco I vowed never to buy another Garmin
again.

--
Roger Chapman