On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:00:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

Again, my Garmins give instructions at varying distances from the turn
dependant on your speed. It often does so about 3 times ...

What annoys me about my TomTom (old version running on an iPAQ) is
that it says "Exit ahead" when it says it before the exit before the
one that it is refering to. If you follow... It really can't cope
with junction on the M8 in Glasgow somewhere where two slip roads
leave to completely different places within a couple of hundred yards
of each other.

(ignoring the 'next turn' prompt that could be hundred of miles ahead
g)

Hunreds of miles? The longest I have seen to "next turn" is around 70
miles when joining the M6 at Penrith and heading south ("next turn"
is the M55). I might be able to push it up to 100 miles where the M74
turns into the M6 south of Grenta. I wonder what the longest "next
turn" is in the UK?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:25:28 -0400, S Viemeister
wrote:

On 11/4/2011 12:30 PM, T i m wrote:

Pre GPS and when going SE from Thurso to Dornoch 'she' indicated she
was just going onto reserve on her XV750. 60 miles later after not
seeing an open petrol station along the way she finally ran out. I
siphoned 1/2 of what I had left in the BMW (and I had daughter pillion
and was towing a trailer but it had a bigger tank) and we eventually
found an open station and were able to fill both bikes upphew.

Who knows how many just_off_the_main_drag petrol stations we passed
along the route? ;-(

Between Thurso and Dornoch, even with GPS, you won't find many petrol
stations. (Can't find what doesn't exist!)

Quite!

There are even fewer between Thurso and Durness.

Well, we tend to watch where we are going when motorcycling so could
easily have missed them as we weren't actually looking for any at that
point (if you know what I mean). *Normally*, with her bike being the
determiner of petrol stops, even when it goes onto reserve we would
find a fuel stop within range of her reserve (and she would have given
me the signal at the first blink of the reserve light coming on). ;-)

However (and ignoring our first introduction to midges in the peak
district and then again at Fort William and Fort Augustus) we both
agree we had the best motorcycling time we have had so far. The roads
were both beautiful and in good condition (not been dug up by the
services since being laid), the scenery were breathtaking and the
other drivers seemed much more tolerant, courteous and understanding
that we have found nearly anywhere, moving over onto the 'let people
past' area, even if we didn't want to pass. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. We were heading for the BMW club rally at Dornoch and happened
beside a couple on another BM at some temporary traffic lights
alongside Loch Lochy. We pulled over for a better chat and it turns
out they were an American couple touring Europe. We told them about
the rally, said they would be welcome and to our surprise were there
before we were! It wasn't quite as it first seemed ... it turned out
he was a golf nut and when I mentioned 'Dornoch' the penny dropped for
him. He got half a round in while we went round the town with his Mrs.
The club paid their camping fees as special guests and they won the
'greatest distance traveled trophy. ;-)

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:55:27 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:


Despite having it set on
fastest route it used to drive me made with its diversions onto single
track roads which the program assumed I could drive as if they were
single carriageways.

Hmm?

I assure you that that is what occurred.

Sorry Roger, I wasn't suggesting I didn't believe you there, just that
that hadn't happened to me? ;-)

They may well have changed the
software in latter models but not on mine and I did check periodically
for software updates.

Fair enough. Many don't and wonder why they have problems (that have
already been fixed etc).

Garmin also had a bug in the early etrex summit
that they denied for years before eventually refusing to do anything
about it.

Not good. The only time I had anything that actually affected me was a
version that was unstable. Luckily I took the Libretto netbook with me
and was able to 'downgrade back to a stable version on the trip.

The handhelds at least up to the mid 00s which had car
direction software had the same problem as my Nuvi with single track roads.

Ok.

snip

Daughter was using a Garmin Nuvi up the A1 to Scotland (from Nth
London) and at about half way and at a rest stop she texted said it
had an ETA of 21:15. At 21:15 the phone rang telling us she had just
arrived? I can't say I've /ever/ have a Gamin offer an ETA that was
changed much over the entire journey, outside of traffic holdups or us
making informal diversions or stops etc.

But do you ever get onto single track roads?

As in 'un requested and 'not really suitable for a car'? No, not
really? And I do often set it to 'shortest' and would say the Nuvi is
even more reserved about what that means than the previous models. ie,
I many know an ever shorter cut through even narrower (but still
reasonable 'country lanes') than it advises. The previous GPS had
finer settings re the vehicles so if you chose 'Cycle' you would get
tracks and lanes etc.

snip

Yup, the Nuvi is a cheap, 'consumer' model (I paid just over £100 for
mine and it has bluetooth and lifetime free traffic support). The
Garmin GPS III+ I bought 10 years earlier was around £499 then and
didn't even have autorouting!. ;-)

I never bothered with a gps until they turned SA off so the etrex summit
was the first model I had (£263 in 2000).

I 'suffered' that for quite a while but never really found it an issue
(it was always far more accurate than I needed).

FWIW I don't call £300 cheap. The Nuvi (in 06) was more than twice the
price of the Tom-Tom I replaced it with three and a half years later.

I was really referring to the Nuvis (at £100 ish. Stepdaughters one
was £89 or summat) and that's how these things go I guess (often
getting cheaper till they nearly become disposable or free with
Cornflakes).

snip

Did you update the device or maps online out of interest?

I checked for software updates but not maps. Roads don't change very
fast and maps seem inordinately expensive compared with the cost of a
brand new sat-nav.

True, however on most of my Garmins I qualified for a 'free' map
upgrade as I bought them within a certain time of them releasing a new
map. I have bought a couple of map upgrades but then in those days you
could use them for up to 3 machines.

snip

p.s. I'd like to get a TomTom (second hand, what model?) as I don't
think you can really decide until you have tried something in earnest.
Plus it's always interesting to see how the other side does it (and
why I also use OSX and Linux). ;-)

I have had mine for over 18 months now. I can't find the instruction
book to check the exact model but it is one of the XL range, no doubt
superseded by now.

Excluding the Nuvi, all of mine are waterproof of course (for use when
cycling / motorcycling). And I know you can put them in bags and
tankbags etc but there is no substitute for something 'designed' to be
used outside. ;-)

I have just got a new handheld (memorymap adventurer 2800) and am having
trouble coming to terms with a very different animal to my previous
handhelds but after the Nuvi fiasco I vowed never to buy another Garmin
again.

Shame.

If you fancy a look at what options you could set on the my GPS V ...
(I've kept it because it's small, waterproof and runs on AA
batteries).

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:12:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:00:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

Again, my Garmins give instructions at varying distances from the turn
dependant on your speed. It often does so about 3 times ...

What annoys me about my TomTom (old version running on an iPAQ) is
that it says "Exit ahead" when it says it before the exit before the
one that it is refering to. If you follow... It really can't cope
with junction on the M8 in Glasgow somewhere where two slip roads
leave to completely different places within a couple of hundred yards
of each other.

Glasgow's probably best avoided anyway, at all costs.

--
Frank Erskine

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
What annoys me about my TomTom (old version running on an iPAQ) is
that it says "Exit ahead" when it says it before the exit before the
one that it is refering to. If you follow..

Yes. What it should say is junction ahead. As a warning. And keep 'exit'
for the one you need to take.

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:12:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:00:10 +0000, T i m wrote:

Again, my Garmins give instructions at varying distances from the turn
dependant on your speed. It often does so about 3 times ...

What annoys me about my TomTom (old version running on an iPAQ) is
that it says "Exit ahead" when it says it before the exit before the
one that it is refering to. If you follow... It really can't cope
with junction on the M8 in Glasgow somewhere where two slip roads
leave to completely different places within a couple of hundred yards
of each other.

Without a doubt, like any 'tools' they take a bit of getting used to
to use properly / efficiently. I generally use the visual and audio
prompts but on the bike it was just visual (I would glance at it as we
approached a junction where it wasn't obvious where we were going and
take the hint it offered).

(ignoring the 'next turn' prompt that could be hundred of miles ahead
g)

Hunreds of miles?

;-)

The longest I have seen to "next turn" is around 70
miles when joining the M6 at Penrith and heading south ("next turn"
is the M55). I might be able to push it up to 100 miles where the M74
turns into the M6 south of Grenta.

We were recovered from Leek back to Nth London (clutch splines wore
out on the BM) and I set my Garmin up alongside that of the AA lorry's
version (it was also a Garmin but rebadged). It was interesting to see
them both reading the exact same things and giving prompts about the
same tings at the same times. /Except/, after many miles of them both
being silent, his burst out with something like 'Go straight ahead for
70 miles' and made us all jump! ;-)

I wonder what the longest "next
turn" is in the UK?

That would be interesting.

According to Mapsource, the longest section between here and daughter
in Scotland is off the M6 so close to yours:

"Take the A75 ramp to the left towards B7076/Dumfries/Gretna/South
West Scotland/Stranraer, 93.2 miles"?

Cheers, T i m

On 11/4/2011 7:46 PM, T i m wrote:

However (and ignoring our first introduction to midges in the peak
district and then again at Fort William and Fort Augustus) we both
agree we had the best motorcycling time we have had so far. The roads
were both beautiful and in good condition (not been dug up by the
services since being laid), the scenery were breathtaking and the
other drivers seemed much more tolerant, courteous and understanding
that we have found nearly anywhere, moving over onto the 'let people
past' area, even if we didn't want to pass. ;-)

You have good taste...
Try visiting in May - lovely long days, and the midges don't generally
wake up til June.

On 05/11/2011 00:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:
What annoys me about my TomTom (old version running on an iPAQ) is
that it says "Exit ahead" when it says it before the exit before the
one that it is refering to. If you follow..

Yes. What it should say is junction ahead. As a warning. And keep 'exit'
for the one you need to take.


I have an appalling memory for everyday events so am not sure I remember
the finer points but two aspects on my TomTom I can remember a

1. On motorways I get a wakeup call at about two miles distant "exit
ahead" and

2. Again on motorways I get a "keep right" if there is another motorway
branching off to the left and I am fairly sure that in such
circumstances it was "junction ahead" as Dave would like.

I think it must have been the Nuvi that told me to keep going for 70
(?*) miles when driving south (and then west) on one of the shortest
motorways in the country - the M606 from the outskirts of Bradford to
the M62.

*I am not sure if I remember the exact distance correctly as 70 miles
would have to include other motorway junctions as well as the ignored
M606/M62.

--
Roger Chapman

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:26:36 -0400, S Viemeister
wrote:

On 11/4/2011 7:46 PM, T i m wrote:

However (and ignoring our first introduction to midges in the peak
district and then again at Fort William and Fort Augustus) we both
agree we had the best motorcycling time we have had so far. The roads
were both beautiful and in good condition (not been dug up by the
services since being laid), the scenery were breathtaking and the
other drivers seemed much more tolerant, courteous and understanding
that we have found nearly anywhere, moving over onto the 'let people
past' area, even if we didn't want to pass. ;-)

You have good taste...

Why thank you. ;-)

Try visiting in May - lovely long days, and the midges don't generally
wake up til June.

Yes, so we now know. ;(

We asked the warden at the Fort William campsite if he was a local and
if so what was the secret to avoiding midge bites. Re rolled up his
sleeve to expose a fairly well bitten arm and said "When I find out
I'll be rich". ;-)

To be fair it wasn't so bad once we had learned where not to be and
when not to be there (as you say, those sort of months and at dusk, by
water / trees and when it is calm).


Cheers, T i m

On 05/11/2011 00:08, T i m wrote:

snip

Garmin also had a bug in the early etrex summit
that they denied for years before eventually refusing to do anything
about it.

Not good. The only time I had anything that actually affected me was a
version that was unstable. Luckily I took the Libretto netbook with me
and was able to 'downgrade back to a stable version on the trip.

The actual problem with the summit was that it ate track points. As a
hill walker (and competent navigator) I bought a gps to record where I
had been, not to take me where I was going, and back in 2000 I had to
save the track up to 3 times in a single walk which lost much of the
detail including the time stamps. On the shorter walks I do now it would
still have been a problem. Garmin eventually brought out a new summit
and abandoned support for the software on the earlier model which
couldn't use the version in the new model.

The handhelds at least up to the mid 00s which had car
direction software had the same problem as my Nuvi with single track roads.

Ok.

snip

Daughter was using a Garmin Nuvi up the A1 to Scotland (from Nth
London) and at about half way and at a rest stop she texted said it
had an ETA of 21:15. At 21:15 the phone rang telling us she had just
arrived? I can't say I've /ever/ have a Gamin offer an ETA that was
changed much over the entire journey, outside of traffic holdups or us
making informal diversions or stops etc.

But do you ever get onto single track roads?

As in 'un requested and 'not really suitable for a car'? No, not
really? And I do often set it to 'shortest' and would say the Nuvi is
even more reserved about what that means than the previous models. ie,
I many know an ever shorter cut through even narrower (but still
reasonable 'country lanes') than it advises. The previous GPS had
finer settings re the vehicles so if you chose 'Cycle' you would get
tracks and lanes etc.

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes. It was only
occasionally that the Nuvi decided a green lane was a more appropriate
route.

TomTom claim their timings are based on real average speeds and I would
think that could well be true. With my Nuvi that could not be the case
for minor roads. I don't know how they actually decided on the average
speed they gave to particular sections of road but they clearly didn't
have a clue about the hazards of driving on single track roads where it
is essential to be able to stop in half the distance you can see.

My TomTom is not totally immune. It has on one occasion led me down a
single track road that turned to grass. There may have been tarmac under
the grass but as it was raining cats and dogs and the road was
descending I thought it best to be prudent to retreat and leave the area
(where I had been walking) by the same single track road I had come in
by. On another occasion it took me over a 6' 6" wide ancient packhorse
bridge with solid parapets that would have been impassible for a large car.


snip

Yup, the Nuvi is a cheap, 'consumer' model (I paid just over £100 for
mine and it has bluetooth and lifetime free traffic support). The
Garmin GPS III+ I bought 10 years earlier was around £499 then and
didn't even have autorouting!. ;-)

I never bothered with a gps until they turned SA off so the etrex summit
was the first model I had (£263 in 2000).

I 'suffered' that for quite a while but never really found it an issue
(it was always far more accurate than I needed).

As a hill walker I prided myself that I could navigate to a far better
accuracy in thick mist than a gps could achieve under SA. If visibility
is 20 feet knowing where you are to within 200 yards is not much help.

FWIW I don't call £300 cheap. The Nuvi (in 06) was more than twice the
price of the Tom-Tom I replaced it with three and a half years later.

I was really referring to the Nuvis (at £100 ish. Stepdaughters one
was £89 or summat) and that's how these things go I guess (often
getting cheaper till they nearly become disposable or free with
Cornflakes).

At that price buying an a new map for say £60 doesn't make sense does it?

snip

Did you update the device or maps online out of interest?

I checked for software updates but not maps. Roads don't change very
fast and maps seem inordinately expensive compared with the cost of a
brand new sat-nav.

True, however on most of my Garmins I qualified for a 'free' map
upgrade as I bought them within a certain time of them releasing a new
map. I have bought a couple of map upgrades but then in those days you
could use them for up to 3 machines.

My Garmin handhelds never had usable maps (roads as broad straight lines
and that was about it). The Nuvi I am fairly sure didn't have a free map
update and the free traffic thingy that came with it only worked on
major routes.

snip

p.s. I'd like to get a TomTom (second hand, what model?) as I don't
think you can really decide until you have tried something in earnest.
Plus it's always interesting to see how the other side does it (and
why I also use OSX and Linux). ;-)

I have had mine for over 18 months now. I can't find the instruction
book to check the exact model but it is one of the XL range, no doubt
superseded by now.

Excluding the Nuvi, all of mine are waterproof of course (for use when
cycling / motorcycling). And I know you can put them in bags and
tankbags etc but there is no substitute for something 'designed' to be
used outside. ;-)

I have just got a new handheld (memorymap adventurer 2800) and am having
trouble coming to terms with a very different animal to my previous
handhelds but after the Nuvi fiasco I vowed never to buy another Garmin
again.

Shame.

I bought another Garmin handheld despite the problems I had with the
summit but there is only so much I will take so when the Nuvi proved to
be so poor I decided that was it.

If you fancy a look at what options you could set on the my GPS V ...
(I've kept it because it's small, waterproof and runs on AA
batteries).

I still have my Vista C which was a considerable improvement on the
summit but still prone to losing lock without a broad view of the sky.
The MM adventurer is supposed to be much better in that respect (as
indeed are later Garmins) and comes with some free mapping at 1:50,000.
Now if only I could get it to use my earlier versions of MM digital
mapping and other suppliers maps I would be very pleased. I have a
mixture of Fugawi and Tracklogs as well as MM.

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf

As a superseded model I can't see how much it cost but it could easily
have been top of the range at one time.

I have used NIMH batteries in the Garmin handhelds but the MM adventurer
has a built in lithium battery. It remains to be seen how flexible that
is going to be compared with removable batteries.

I don't usually use my signature outside of the walking group but this
time I have left it in. :-)

--
Roger Chapman
Attempting to master a new computer
and failing to master a new gps

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 20:44:40 -0000
"Lawrence" wrote:

I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. It wouldn't do anything and told me
it had no maps. It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs
a window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a
support engineer. To cut a long story short, she emailed me a
complete set of instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a
new application and reinstall my maps. It took 2 hours to do but it
worked. I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence


I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a one-way
street that has been there for years. I have tried to correct them on
their website, for which I had to create an account, but drivers still
follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their
stupid TomToms instead of using a map.
Grrrrr.
--
Davey.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a one-way
street that has been there for years. I have tried to correct them on
their website, for which I had to create an account, but drivers still
follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their
stupid TomToms instead of using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way streets?
And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach your road'?

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/5/2011 5:55 AM, T i m wrote:
wrote:
On 11/4/2011 7:46 PM, T i m wrote:
However (and ignoring our first introduction to midges in the peak
district and then again at Fort William and Fort Augustus) we both
agree we had the best motorcycling time we have had so far. The roads
were both beautiful and in good condition (not been dug up by the
services since being laid), the scenery were breathtaking and the
other drivers seemed much more tolerant, courteous and understanding
that we have found nearly anywhere, moving over onto the 'let people
past' area, even if we didn't want to pass. ;-)
You have good taste...
Why thank you. ;-)
Try visiting in May - lovely long days, and the midges don't generally
wake up til June.
Yes, so we now know. ;(

We asked the warden at the Fort William campsite if he was a local and
if so what was the secret to avoiding midge bites. Re rolled up his
sleeve to expose a fairly well bitten arm and said "When I find out
I'll be rich". ;-)

The shepherd at the farm across the road from me, claims that Avon's
Ski-So-Soft really does work, but needs to be re-applied often.
I ordered midge-proof hooded jackets from Canada, so that I can work in
the garden without being devoured.

To be fair it wasn't so bad once we had learned where not to be and
when not to be there (as you say, those sort of months and at dusk, by
water / trees and when it is calm).

On 05/11/2011 13:00, S Viemeister wrote:

I ordered midge-proof hooded jackets from Canada, so that I can work in
the garden without being devoured.

Have you tried a midge net? (Used with a hat for best effect). It would
be much cheaper than a full jacket.

--
Roger Chapman

On 11/5/2011 9:24 AM, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 05/11/2011 13:00, S Viemeister wrote:

I ordered midge-proof hooded jackets from Canada, so that I can work in
the garden without being devoured.

Have you tried a midge net? (Used with a hat for best effect). It would
be much cheaper than a full jacket.

I keep one in my jacket pocket!
But I'm very sensitive to midge bites, and I like gardening, so the
jacket was a worthwhile investment. I can wear short sleeves in warm
weather, and still not be bitten.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 10:18:23 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:

snip

The actual problem with the summit was that it ate track points. As a
hill walker (and competent navigator) I bought a gps to record where I
had been, not to take me where I was going, and back in 2000 I had to
save the track up to 3 times in a single walk which lost much of the
detail including the time stamps.

Oooer, not good. Again, can't say I've ever seen that on any of mine
but then I've not had that specific model nor done a lot of walking
with them. I have done some and a fair bit of cycling and I can't
think of a time when I've ever lost any info?

This was for example the altitude display for a tracklog from Scotland
to home.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Dumf...h%20London.jpg

I had every logged transition for the entire journey, showing speed,
direction, altitude and location etc and that would have stayed there
till it was overwritten (and could still be on there now as it
happens).

We have also used the 'Trackback' feature to do just that. ;-)

We have also used the 'Man overboard' feature to mark the position of
the car when parked in a remote / unfamiliar back street or to
re-locate our tent on a large camp / rally site. Never not done what
was requested even once. That's probably why I've kept all my Garmins
over the years (except the III+ as it was pretty well directly
replaced with the V that was in the same chassis but had more memory
and auto routing).

On the shorter walks I do now it would
still have been a problem. Garmin eventually brought out a new summit
and abandoned support for the software on the earlier model which
couldn't use the version in the new model.#

Again, not nice but not 'uncommon', especially these days. In fact I'm
sure the size of the American market with their disposable attitude to
kit and 'over the wall' attitude to customer after sales support may
migrate to UK support. That said UK support has always been pretty
good and 'reasonable' in a commercial sense to me. YMMV of course.


As in 'un requested and 'not really suitable for a car'? No, not
really? And I do often set it to 'shortest' and would say the Nuvi is
even more reserved about what that means than the previous models. ie,
I many know an ever shorter cut through even narrower (but still
reasonable 'country lanes') than it advises. The previous GPS had
finer settings re the vehicles so if you chose 'Cycle' you would get
tracks and lanes etc.

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes.

So that's ok then if you had selected shortest and had not selected
'Lorry' or somesuch (I'm not familiar with the options on your
particular models).

It was only
occasionally that the Nuvi decided a green lane was a more appropriate
route.

On my Nuvi I only have to options of Automobile, Bicycle or
Pedestrian. I'm sure it's more on the previous models and a vehicle
profile determines what road types it can and can't take (like low
bridges or very narrow roads etc).

TomTom claim their timings are based on real average speeds and I would
think that could well be true.

On the Mapsource PC software you can 'tweak the typical speed profile
for each 'limit'. So, I might set 60mph as an average for me for
motorways.

With my Nuvi that could not be the case
for minor roads. I don't know how they actually decided on the average
speed they gave to particular sections of road but they clearly didn't
have a clue about the hazards of driving on single track roads where it
is essential to be able to stop in half the distance you can see.

Understood and see above.

My TomTom is not totally immune. It has on one occasion led me down a
single track road that turned to grass. There may have been tarmac under
the grass but as it was raining cats and dogs and the road was
descending I thought it best to be prudent to retreat and leave the area
(where I had been walking) by the same single track road I had come in
by.

Quite (discretion being the better part of valour).

On another occasion it took me over a 6' 6" wide ancient packhorse
bridge with solid parapets that would have been impassible for a large car.

I'm pretty sure that had we ever been guided thus we would remember
it.

snip

As a hill walker I prided myself that I could navigate to a far better
accuracy in thick mist than a gps could achieve under SA. If visibility
is 20 feet knowing where you are to within 200 yards is not much help.

Indeed (under those circumstances). But even then, 'Trackback' was
able to show me I was driving back on the wrong side of the road (when
it was a dual-carriageway). ;-)

FWIW I don't call £300 cheap. The Nuvi (in 06) was more than twice the
price of the Tom-Tom I replaced it with three and a half years later.

I was really referring to the Nuvis (at £100 ish. Stepdaughters one
was £89 or summat) and that's how these things go I guess (often
getting cheaper till they nearly become disposable or free with
Cornflakes).

At that price buying an a new map for say £60 doesn't make sense does it?

No, it doesn't. It did when they were ~£400 and maps were £35 (and
could be used across several devices). ;-)


Garmin Lifetime maps could be worthwhile though if you have an
up-market device. (£79.99

http://www.garmin.com/uk/maps/numaps/numaps-lifetime/

snip

My Garmin handhelds never had usable maps (roads as broad straight lines
and that was about it).

Ok.

The Nuvi I am fairly sure didn't have a free map
update

Depending on when you bought it re a new map release. You often you
get prompted when the web updater.

and the free traffic thingy that came with it only worked on
major routes.

Ok.


I bought another Garmin handheld despite the problems I had with the
summit but there is only so much I will take so when the Nuvi proved to
be so poor I decided that was it.

Quite.


I still have my Vista C which was a considerable improvement on the
summit but still prone to losing lock without a broad view of the sky.

I've noticed that on older models and sometimes make use of the
external aerial connector and a mini mag-mount ant. Especially handy
if in a van with an overhanging body or heavily built up / wooded
areas.

The MM adventurer is supposed to be much better in that respect (as
indeed are later Garmins)

Is that the StarFire system?

and comes with some free mapping at 1:50,000.

That's good (if you are a walker / GeoCacher etc).

Now if only I could get it to use my earlier versions of MM digital
mapping and other suppliers maps I would be very pleased. I have a
mixture of Fugawi and Tracklogs as well as MM.

I've not really done any of that 'alternate mapping' stuff, nor
interfaced any of them with Google earth etc. Most of my trips are too
mundane for any of that. ;-)

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf

As a superseded model I can't see how much it cost

I think it was nearly £500 retain but cost me nearer £420 from the
TCR.

but it could easily
have been top of the range at one time.

It was pretty good for it's size and was probably the 'dogs' for
motorcyclists at the time. Not sure TomTom existed then and it was
quite a while before they came up with their waterproof model(s).

I have used NIMH batteries in the Garmin handhelds

(me too, some Eneloop jobbies)

but the MM adventurer
has a built in lithium battery.

As does my Quest. The others are 12V supply only and with their bigger
displays more suited to more 'formal' road trips (where you wouldn't
need the portability at the other end).

It remains to be seen how flexible that
is going to be compared with removable batteries.

We had a solar panel on the Tandem cycle trailer and could charge a
good batch of AA's at the same time. At the time they fitted the GPS,
Fuji DX7 camera, Petzl headlights, Mini Maglites and tent flouro.

I don't usually use my signature outside of the walking group but this
time I have left it in. :-)

Roger Chapman
Attempting to master a new computer
and failing to master a new gps

Very appropriate ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 05/11/2011 14:23, T i m wrote:

snip

The actual problem with the summit was that it ate track points. As a
hill walker (and competent navigator) I bought a gps to record where I
had been, not to take me where I was going, and back in 2000 I had to
save the track up to 3 times in a single walk which lost much of the
detail including the time stamps.

Oooer, not good. Again, can't say I've ever seen that on any of mine
but then I've not had that specific model nor done a lot of walking
with them. I have done some and a fair bit of cycling and I can't
think of a time when I've ever lost any info?

To be fair the Vista C's performance in this regard is acceptable with
walking tracks recorded in full for a weekend away provided the track
and/or the gps is switched off while driving between venues.

This was for example the altitude display for a tracklog from Scotland
to home.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Dumf...h%20London.jpg

I had every logged transition for the entire journey, showing speed,
direction, altitude and location etc and that would have stayed there
till it was overwritten (and could still be on there now as it
happens).

We have also used the 'Trackback' feature to do just that. ;-)

So that is why the track is showing as London to Dumfries.

We have also used the 'Man overboard' feature to mark the position of
the car when parked in a remote / unfamiliar back street or to
re-locate our tent on a large camp / rally site. Never not done what
was requested even once. That's probably why I've kept all my Garmins
over the years (except the III+ as it was pretty well directly
replaced with the V that was in the same chassis but had more memory
and auto routing).

With the Vista (and indeed the summit) you can just take a waypoint.

On the shorter walks I do now it would
still have been a problem. Garmin eventually brought out a new summit
and abandoned support for the software on the earlier model which
couldn't use the version in the new model.#

Again, not nice but not 'uncommon', especially these days. In fact I'm
sure the size of the American market with their disposable attitude to
kit and 'over the wall' attitude to customer after sales support may
migrate to UK support. That said UK support has always been pretty
good and 'reasonable' in a commercial sense to me. YMMV of course.

Yes the UK support is good when it comes to repairs. They may well have
reflected back across the Atlantic concerns about the summit and been
ignored.

As in 'un requested and 'not really suitable for a car'? No, not
really? And I do often set it to 'shortest' and would say the Nuvi is
even more reserved about what that means than the previous models. ie,
I many know an ever shorter cut through even narrower (but still
reasonable 'country lanes') than it advises. The previous GPS had
finer settings re the vehicles so if you chose 'Cycle' you would get
tracks and lanes etc.

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes.

So that's ok then if you had selected shortest and had not selected
'Lorry' or somesuch (I'm not familiar with the options on your
particular models).

Ah but I never dared use anything but the fastest route. I never tried
the shortest route but if they had set the parameters properly the ETA
would be achievable whichever mode was chosen.

It was only
occasionally that the Nuvi decided a green lane was a more appropriate
route.

On my Nuvi I only have to options of Automobile, Bicycle or
Pedestrian. I'm sure it's more on the previous models and a vehicle
profile determines what road types it can and can't take (like low
bridges or very narrow roads etc).

switches on TomTom
Fastest route
Shortest route
Avoid motorways
Bicycle route
Limited speed

TomTom claim their timings are based on real average speeds and I would
think that could well be true.

On the Mapsource PC software you can 'tweak the typical speed profile
for each 'limit'. So, I might set 60mph as an average for me for
motorways.

With my Nuvi that could not be the case
for minor roads. I don't know how they actually decided on the average
speed they gave to particular sections of road but they clearly didn't
have a clue about the hazards of driving on single track roads where it
is essential to be able to stop in half the distance you can see.

Understood and see above.

My TomTom is not totally immune. It has on one occasion led me down a
single track road that turned to grass. There may have been tarmac under
the grass but as it was raining cats and dogs and the road was
descending I thought it best to be prudent to retreat and leave the area
(where I had been walking) by the same single track road I had come in
by.

Quite (discretion being the better part of valour).

On another occasion it took me over a 6' 6" wide ancient packhorse
bridge with solid parapets that would have been impassible for a large car.

I'm pretty sure that had we ever been guided thus we would remember
it.

You need to be going from one obscure place to another to be at all
likely to meet things like that. Having said that in 50 years of
motoring, much of it on the UK's less frequented roads, I have never had
such a tight fit. That packhorse bridge could well be the only one of
its type in regular use by cars. See:

http://www.engineering-timelines.com...tem.asp?id=889

snip

As a hill walker I prided myself that I could navigate to a far better
accuracy in thick mist than a gps could achieve under SA. If visibility
is 20 feet knowing where you are to within 200 yards is not much help.

Indeed (under those circumstances). But even then, 'Trackback' was
able to show me I was driving back on the wrong side of the road (when
it was a dual-carriageway). ;-)

FWIW I don't call £300 cheap. The Nuvi (in 06) was more than twice the
price of the Tom-Tom I replaced it with three and a half years later.

I was really referring to the Nuvis (at £100 ish. Stepdaughters one
was £89 or summat) and that's how these things go I guess (often
getting cheaper till they nearly become disposable or free with
Cornflakes).

At that price buying an a new map for say £60 doesn't make sense does it?

No, it doesn't. It did when they were ~£400 and maps were £35 (and
could be used across several devices). ;-)


Garmin Lifetime maps could be worthwhile though if you have an
up-market device. (£79.99

http://www.garmin.com/uk/maps/numaps/numaps-lifetime/

snip

My Garmin handhelds never had usable maps (roads as broad straight lines
and that was about it).

Ok.

The Nuvi I am fairly sure didn't have a free map
update

Depending on when you bought it re a new map release. You often you
get prompted when the web updater.

and the free traffic thingy that came with it only worked on
major routes.

Ok.


I bought another Garmin handheld despite the problems I had with the
summit but there is only so much I will take so when the Nuvi proved to
be so poor I decided that was it.

Quite.


I still have my Vista C which was a considerable improvement on the
summit but still prone to losing lock without a broad view of the sky.

I've noticed that on older models and sometimes make use of the
external aerial connector and a mini mag-mount ant. Especially handy
if in a van with an overhanging body or heavily built up / wooded
areas.

The MM adventurer is supposed to be much better in that respect (as
indeed are later Garmins)

Is that the StarFire system?

I don't know. In fact I still know very little about this new gps.

and comes with some free mapping at 1:50,000.

That's good (if you are a walker / GeoCacher etc).

I grew up with 1" maps but these days the average walker feels lost
without 1:25000 maps and I too have eventually come to appreciate them
which is a major change for me as I was very reluctant to switch from 1"
to 1:50000 when they first came out even though the 1" in the Highlands
could be more than a tad confusing in areas where the surveyors hadn't
bothered much with the land above the cloud line.

Now if only I could get it to use my earlier versions of MM digital
mapping and other suppliers maps I would be very pleased. I have a
mixture of Fugawi and Tracklogs as well as MM.

I've not really done any of that 'alternate mapping' stuff, nor
interfaced any of them with Google earth etc. Most of my trips are too
mundane for any of that. ;-)

Walking is usually a very pedestrian pastime. ;-)

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSV_OwnersManual.pdf

As a superseded model I can't see how much it cost

I think it was nearly £500 retain but cost me nearer £420 from the
TCR.

but it could easily
have been top of the range at one time.

It was pretty good for it's size and was probably the 'dogs' for
motorcyclists at the time. Not sure TomTom existed then and it was
quite a while before they came up with their waterproof model(s).

I have used NIMH batteries in the Garmin handhelds

(me too, some Eneloop jobbies)

but the MM adventurer
has a built in lithium battery.

As does my Quest. The others are 12V supply only and with their bigger
displays more suited to more 'formal' road trips (where you wouldn't
need the portability at the other end).

It remains to be seen how flexible that
is going to be compared with removable batteries.

We had a solar panel on the Tandem cycle trailer and could charge a
good batch of AA's at the same time. At the time they fitted the GPS,
Fuji DX7 camera, Petzl headlights, Mini Maglites and tent flouro.

I have a variety of NIMH AAs and sufficient to charge up prior to a
walking trip so haven;t experimented with in-car charging. Will need to
for the adventurer though.

I don't usually use my signature outside of the walking group but this
time I have left it in. :-)

Roger Chapman
Attempting to master a new computer
and failing to master a new gps

Very appropriate ;-)

Cheers, T i m


--
Roger Chapman

On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 13:24:30 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:

On 05/11/2011 13:00, S Viemeister wrote:

I ordered midge-proof hooded jackets from Canada, so that I can work in
the garden without being devoured.

Have you tried a midge net? (Used with a hat for best effect). It would
be much cheaper than a full jacket.

I bought a midge hat (like a lightweight bee keepers hat) and used it
once to good effect when breaking camp but then must have left it
somewhere. Luckily we went from there to the East side of Scotland
(came back home via Perth, County Durham (Beamish), Skeggy etc) and
that doesn't seem to be blighted so?

Cheers, T i m

"Davey" wrote in message
...


I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a one-way
street that has been there for years. I have tried to correct them on
their website, for which I had to create an account, but drivers still
follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their
stupid TomToms instead of using a map.
Grrrrr.

tomtom do a specific version for trucks, maybe the truckers don't buy it?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a one-way
street that has been there for years. I have tried to correct them on
their website, for which I had to create an account, but drivers still
follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their
stupid TomToms instead of using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way streets?
And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors on mine,
missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn restrictions that are
wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.
There are quite a lot of speed limits wrong too, but I tend not to correct
those as it means the safety camera limits are wrong if I don't. I think
people that rely on the safety camera warnings need to get caught.

dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a
one-way street that has been there for years. I have tried to
correct them on their website, for which I had to create an
account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors on
mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn restrictions
that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

--
Adam

On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 19:10:01 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:


This was for example the altitude display for a tracklog from Scotland
to home.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Dumf...h%20London.jpg

I had every logged transition for the entire journey, showing speed,
direction, altitude and location etc and that would have stayed there
till it was overwritten (and could still be on there now as it
happens).

We have also used the 'Trackback' feature to do just that. ;-)

So that is why the track is showing as London to Dumfries.

Doh, that could just be a typo on my part. Yes, it would make more
sense t'other way round (that big lump gives it away eh? ;-) )

However, it only goes to show how it can be read by someone who is
taking note. ;-)

Filename changed.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Nth%...20Dumfries.jpg


We have also used the 'Man overboard' feature to mark the position of
the car when parked in a remote / unfamiliar back street or to
re-locate our tent on a large camp / rally site. Never not done what
was requested even once. That's probably why I've kept all my Garmins
over the years (except the III+ as it was pretty well directly
replaced with the V that was in the same chassis but had more memory
and auto routing).

With the Vista (and indeed the summit) you can just take a waypoint.

I think it's the same thing but the 'Man Overboard' function is
supposed to be quicker (in case a man really had gone overboard etc).
You can rename the waypoint anything you like afterwards ... like
'Cheese shop' or 'Pub'. ;-)

snip

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes.

So that's ok then if you had selected shortest and had not selected
'Lorry' or somesuch (I'm not familiar with the options on your
particular models).

Ah but I never dared use anything but the fastest route.

Oh? I regularly use both Fastest and Shortest, depending on my need.

I never tried
the shortest route but if they had set the parameters properly the ETA
would be achievable whichever mode was chosen.

Indeed (as mine are). What I don't understand here is are you saying
the 'initial' ETA isn't achievable (die, when you set off it says ETA
16:00 but you actually get there at 17:00 with it still saying 16:00
or that it initially gives 16:00 but then slips during the journey to
say 17:00?). I would say with mine I know I've done the journey
quicker or slower by how much better or worse I am against the
starting ETA.

die, We used to Ennui to get to a Hospital (routine visit but not been
there for years) for a 12:00 app and as we set off at 11.05 it gave
us an ETA of 11:45. We got stuck behind a couple of lorries (who were
a bit slower off the mark at each junction) and so we actually arrived
at it's revised ETA of 11:50?


switches on TomTom
Fastest route
Shortest route
Avoid motorways
Bicycle route
Limited speed

The Ennui also has an 'Eco' routing mode (but I think you have to give
it some vehicle params and as we use it in several different ones).


snip

I'm pretty sure that had we ever been guided thus we would remember
it.

You need to be going from one obscure place to another to be at all
likely to meet things like that.

We may not have done that then but have done quite a bit of 'shortest'
with no issues. Maybe that just depends where you are when you do
that. Mind you, we have explored some pretty small roads in the Peak
District and Cornwall but only because we were following the road
signs. ;-)


Having said that in 50 years of
motoring, much of it on the UK's less frequented roads, I have never had
such a tight fit. That packhorse bridge could well be the only one of
its type in regular use by cars. See:

http://www.engineering-timelines.com...tem.asp?id=889

That's sweet.


Is that the StarFire system?

I don't know. In fact I still know very little about this new gps.

I think there is a later generation of more sensitive receiver. I know
the Nuvi will easily pickup satellites when on the passenger seat
whereas my older ones prefer to be in good view of more sky from the
dash etc.

I grew up with 1" maps but these days the average walker feels lost
without 1:25000 maps and I too have eventually come to appreciate them
which is a major change for me as I was very reluctant to switch from 1"
to 1:50000 when they first came out even though the 1" in the Highlands
could be more than a tad confusing in areas where the surveyors hadn't
bothered much with the land above the cloud line.

I've still got a fair collection of Landranger and Explorer OS maps as
we used to get one whenever we were going or at a new area. I've also
got some aeronautic charts (from PP mate) and some marine navigation
charts (from Dad).


Walking is usually a very pedestrian pastime. ;-)

Hehe.


Cheers, T i m

On 05/11/2011 21:22, T i m wrote:

snip

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes.

So that's ok then if you had selected shortest and had not selected
'Lorry' or somesuch (I'm not familiar with the options on your
particular models).

Ah but I never dared use anything but the fastest route.

Oh? I regularly use both Fastest and Shortest, depending on my need.

Tried both on the TomTom late last night using a trip to hospital I have
to make next week. Fastest was 11 minutes, shortest was 17 minutes (and
the route I would have had to take before they opened the 30 year
delayed Bingley bypass). Before being allowed the shortest route I got a
warning about the perils of using the shortest route rather than the
fastest route.

I never tried
the shortest route but if they had set the parameters properly the ETA
would be achievable whichever mode was chosen.

Indeed (as mine are). What I don't understand here is are you saying
the 'initial' ETA isn't achievable (die, when you set off it says ETA
16:00 but you actually get there at 17:00 with it still saying 16:00
or that it initially gives 16:00 but then slips during the journey to
say 17:00?). I would say with mine I know I've done the journey
quicker or slower by how much better or worse I am against the
starting ETA.

The ETA was continuously updated and in normal circumstances on
classified roads didn't vary very much. The problem came into sharp
focus as soon as a single track road was reached. If the single track
leg took say 10 minutes to cover then the ETA would have receded by a
similar amount. Some of these short cuts were nonsensical. Indeed on one
occasion I had to overtake a lorry twice as it had been considerably
quicker taking the long way round than I had been on the 'short cut'.
Probably all of them had a longer way round that was quicker.

die, We used to Ennui to get to a Hospital (routine visit but not been
there for years) for a 12:00 app and as we set off at 11.05 it gave
us an ETA of 11:45. We got stuck behind a couple of lorries (who were
a bit slower off the mark at each junction) and so we actually arrived
at it's revised ETA of 11:50?


switches on TomTom
Fastest route
Shortest route
Avoid motorways
Bicycle route
Limited speed

The Ennui also has an 'Eco' routing mode (but I think you have to give
it some vehicle params and as we use it in several different ones).


snip

I'm pretty sure that had we ever been guided thus we would remember
it.

You need to be going from one obscure place to another to be at all
likely to meet things like that.

We may not have done that then but have done quite a bit of 'shortest'
with no issues. Maybe that just depends where you are when you do
that. Mind you, we have explored some pretty small roads in the Peak
District and Cornwall but only because we were following the road
signs. ;-)

It is a long time since I spent much time in the Peak District. Most of
my troubles with the Nuvi were in Wales but I doubt whether this
particular problem was confined to Wales.

Having said that in 50 years of
motoring, much of it on the UK's less frequented roads, I have never had
such a tight fit. That packhorse bridge could well be the only one of
its type in regular use by cars. See:

http://www.engineering-timelines.com...tem.asp?id=889

That's sweet.


Is that the StarFire system?

I don't know. In fact I still know very little about this new gps.

I think there is a later generation of more sensitive receiver. I know
the Nuvi will easily pickup satellites when on the passenger seat
whereas my older ones prefer to be in good view of more sky from the
dash etc.

I grew up with 1" maps but these days the average walker feels lost
without 1:25000 maps and I too have eventually come to appreciate them
which is a major change for me as I was very reluctant to switch from 1"
to 1:50000 when they first came out even though the 1" in the Highlands
could be more than a tad confusing in areas where the surveyors hadn't
bothered much with the land above the cloud line.

I've still got a fair collection of Landranger and Explorer OS maps as
we used to get one whenever we were going or at a new area. I've also
got some aeronautic charts (from PP mate) and some marine navigation
charts (from Dad).

Just checked the contents of my map box - 1" -77, 1:50,000 - 36,
1:25,000 (large) - 17, (small) - 13. Perhaps a dozen or more maps of
mostly other scales hidden away elsewhere.


Walking is usually a very pedestrian pastime. ;-)

Hehe.

;-)

One curious aspect of my TomTom is the 'keep right' instruction
approaching Keswick from the east on the A66. The feature to be avoided
is a conventional roadside lay-by. It would perhaps be understandable if
it was an oxbow lay-by.

I have been led to believe that all sat-navs suffer from a multitude of
wrongly coded junctions where some side street which might be no more
than a farm lane is considered the major road prompting a 'turn right'
or whatever instruction when in reality all you are doing is driving
round a bend in the road. The reverse of course is potentially more
dangerous if you don't watch out for the road signs.
--
Roger Chapman

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a
one-way street that has been there for years. I have tried to
correct them on their website, for which I had to create an
account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors on
mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn restrictions
that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

tim

tim.... wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving
in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way,
they don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so
making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they
ignore a one-way street that has been there for years. I have
tried to correct them on their website, for which I had to create
an account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors
on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn
restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

I'll bet that you didn't:-)


--
Adam

On 04/11/2011 09:34, John Williamson wrote:
harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:44 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. It wouldn't do anything and told me it
had
no maps. It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. To cut a long story short, she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application and
reinstall my maps. It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence


Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

Depends on what you do for a living. I'd need to replace a couple of
hundred quids worth of street maps every year or so, as against about
ninety quid for a two year subscription to a Satnav service. The paper
maps are less accurate and up-to-date, too. If I want a paper map, then
for a small area, there's Google, but they're not so good for off-road
applications.

I bought a basic Nav Man a few months ago for around £60. I reckon its
close on paid for itself in fuel savings already.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 04/11/2011 09:34, John Williamson wrote:
harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:44 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
I bought a map upgrade today and just as the map was half way through
installing the computer froze. It wouldn't do anything and told me it
had
no maps. It wouldn't restore a backup either so I was stuffed.
I logged on to the tomtom support site and while I was searching FAQs a
window popped up and asked if I wanted a one to one chat with a support
engineer. To cut a long story short, she emailed me a complete set of
instructions on how to format my tomtom, reinstall a new application
and reinstall my maps. It took 2 hours to do but it worked.
I love my Tomtom.

Lawrence


Maps are cheaper and morei nteresting.

Depends on what you do for a living. I'd need to replace a couple of
hundred quids worth of street maps every year or so, as against about
ninety quid for a two year subscription to a Satnav service. The paper
maps are less accurate and up-to-date, too. If I want a paper map, then
for a small area, there's Google, but they're not so good for off-road
applications.

I bought a basic Nav Man a few months ago for around £60. I reckon its
close on paid for itself in fuel savings already.




I'v had a Garmin Nuvi since 2006, 100 quid from Halfords on special offer
with all maps for Europe and an FM traffic receiver.

Sometimes it's says stupid things - I sometimes set to to "I'm a truck" mode
to dissuade it from sending me down small roads to save 1/4 mile over using
the A road I was on anyway.

But, where else for 100 quid could you get a full set of maps for Europe
(well, EU region), a passable attempt at navigation and traffic warnings?

It got me through Belgium and on another occasion around La Peripherique in
Paris, which is the spawn of satan as far as ring roads go. So I'm pretty
bloody impressed despite its imperfections.

--
Tim Watts

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:22:22 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:


Some of these short cuts were nonsensical. Indeed on one
occasion I had to overtake a lorry twice as it had been considerably
quicker taking the long way round than I had been on the 'short cut'.

Yeahbut none of my GPS's have a 'Short cut' option, only 'Shortest.
;-)

Probably all of them had a longer way round that was quicker.

Of course (given the above etc).


Just checked the contents of my map box - 1" -77, 1:50,000 - 36,
1:25,000 (large) - 17, (small) - 13. Perhaps a dozen or more maps of
mostly other scales hidden away elsewhere.

They would weigh a bit in yer knapsack. ;-)


One curious aspect of my TomTom is the 'keep right' instruction
approaching Keswick from the east on the A66. The feature to be avoided
is a conventional roadside lay-by. It would perhaps be understandable if
it was an oxbow lay-by.

I have had several instances where I've been directed off a motorway
at a junction, only to be directed back on again but with the view at
the right scale I can normally tell which are real route changes and
which are not.

I have been led to believe that all sat-navs suffer from a multitude of
wrongly coded junctions where some side street which might be no more
than a farm lane is considered the major road prompting a 'turn right'
or whatever instruction when in reality all you are doing is driving
round a bend in the road.

Erm, well, again as I can really only speak on behalf of my Garmins,
most of the actual wrong turns are me not interpreting (or sometimes
noticing / trusting) the data correctly. Like turning 50 yards too
early because I forgot to note that it says on the screen '.. in 50
yards ..'.

But yes, I have had (and mostly with the Nuvi) many 'Bear left' type
messages when I would have thought 'Stay on this road' or no comment
at all would be more appropriate. Not many where it has actually sent
us the wrong way. Not the best way maybe.

The reverse of course is potentially more
dangerous if you don't watch out for the road signs.

Indeed.

The thing is, I don't think any system is perfect but I have been so
happy with my Garmins over many years and situations (cars,
motorbikes, cycles, walking and even on a couple of ferries (I wasn't
steering g)) that I've not had need to look elsewhere.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. The other thing I 'enjoy' with a GPS and autorouting is not
having to do a U turn and pick up your original route plan, if you
miss a junction for some reason and were using a more formal / pre
prepared plan.

Ooops, /I/ missed the turning ... "Off route, recalculating ..
Turn left in 2 miles" and a quick look at the new route and unchanged
ETA suggest that little may have been lost. ;-)

In message , Tim Watts
writes
I'v had a Garmin Nuvi since 2006, 100 quid from Halfords on special offer
with all maps for Europe and an FM traffic receiver.

Sometimes it's says stupid things - I sometimes set to to "I'm a truck" mode
to dissuade it from sending me down small roads to save 1/4 mile over using
the A road I was on anyway.

But, where else for 100 quid could you get a full set of maps for Europe
(well, EU region), a passable attempt at navigation and traffic warnings?

It got me through Belgium

HA !

A couple of months ago I was going from Sprimont (near Spa) to
Braunschweig (the other side of Hamburg

I typed the address in and set off. It led me down progreessively
smaller roads, through a wood, past a hamlet and then, within sight of
the motorway a few hundred metres away suspended on concrete pillars it
said "OFF ROAD"



--
geoff

In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:16:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Maps are great if you have a passenger who can read them.

Or simply a clue and a memory.
I've never owned and have no intention of owning a satnav - I've
absolutely no need for one. If they'd been around when I was
couriering, I'd probably have had one then, but only if the price was
sensible. I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.


But you've only got two roads within a 50 mile radius of where you live

I used to be very anti-satnav, I'm a convert, despite the fact that it
sometimes gets it wrong. Satnav + engaged brain seems to be a good
compromise

--
geoff

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a
one-way street that has been there for years. I have tried to
correct them on their website, for which I had to create an account,
but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying
entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

You would hope the one way sign on the actual street was up to date and that
the driver had working eyes!

--
Adam

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

I enjoy using maps, always have, and have seen too many
utter ****wits blindly relying on their satnavs make utter cockups to
want to join the brainless brood, thank you very much.

And a ****wit reading a map while driving won't have accidents?

I'm sure there are those around who blindly follow sat nav instructions.
But then there are lots around who shouldn't be driving for other reasons
too. Probably approaching 50% of those on the roads.


I never seemed to have much of a problem driving around london with an
A-Z in one hand and an eye on the road

--
geoff

dennis@home wrote:
"Davey" wrote in message
...


I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in
our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they
don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making
them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a
one-way street that has been there for years. I have tried to
correct them on their website, for which I had to create an account,
but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying
entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of using a map.
Grrrrr.

tomtom do a specific version for trucks, maybe the truckers don't buy
it?

Same thing as the normal TomTom. It just has a "where to dump murdered
prostitutes" on the POI.

--
Adam

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
tim.... wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving
in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way,
they don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so
making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they
ignore a one-way street that has been there for years. I have
tried to correct them on their website, for which I had to create
an account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors
on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn
restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

I'll bet that you didn't:-)


The Nuernberg ring does exist, it's mainly dual carriageway, it's also
circumnavigated by Autobahn, the A3, the A9, the A73 and the A6

The Nurburgring isn't but, it is shown as one on german maps

Whatever, it would be "interesting " to see Dennis chugging round either
of them at 50km/h in his Corsair, or whatever POS he drives

And interesting from the point of view that he laid down a challenge and
he could actually redeem himself by actually turning up at either of the
above ...

big boy behind the monitor, yellow livered coward in real life


--
geoff

In message , Huge
writes
On 2011-11-06, ARWadsworth wrote:
tim.... wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving
in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way,
they don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so
making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they
ignore a one-way street that has been there for years. I have
tried to correct them on their website, for which I had to create
an account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors
on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn
restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

I'll bet that you didn't:-)

Well, Nuremburg *does* have a ring (road);

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Nure...ny&hl=en&ll=49.
444691,11.087952&spn=0.066185,0.142136&geocode=FR iO8gIdIBOpAA&hnear=Nure
mberg,+Bavaria,+Germany&t=m&z=13&vpsrc=6

It does ...

And Dennis challenged me to a race around it

I think that the knobend confused it with the Nurburgring, don't you

He has still to either acknowledge his mistake or turn up at either
location


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2011-11-06, ARWadsworth wrote:
tim.... wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for
driving in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the
wrong way, they don't tell them about the best way to approach
our road, so making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our
house, and they ignore a one-way street that has been there
for years. I have tried to correct them on their website, for
which I had to create an account, but drivers still follow the
same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their
stupid TomToms instead of using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to
approach your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few
errors on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn
restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

I'll bet that you didn't:-)

Well, Nuremburg *does* have a ring (road);

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Nure...ny&hl=en&ll=49.
444691,11.087952&spn=0.066185,0.142136&geocode=FRi O8gIdIBOpAA&hnear=Nure
mberg,+Bavaria,+Germany&t=m&z=13&vpsrc=6

It does ...

And Dennis challenged me to a race around it

I think that the knobend confused it with the Nurburgring, don't you

He has still to either acknowledge his mistake or turn up at either
location


The worm would get lost on the way.

--
Adam

On 06/11/2011 14:21, T i m wrote:

Some of these short cuts were nonsensical. Indeed on one
occasion I had to overtake a lorry twice as it had been considerably
quicker taking the long way round than I had been on the 'short cut'.

Yeahbut none of my GPS's have a 'Short cut' option, only 'Shortest.
;-)

Non of mine had either. :-(

Probably all of them had a longer way round that was quicker.

Of course (given the above etc).


Just checked the contents of my map box - 1" -77, 1:50,000 - 36,
1:25,000 (large) - 17, (small) - 13. Perhaps a dozen or more maps of
mostly other scales hidden away elsewhere.

They would weigh a bit in yer knapsack. ;-)

A good job I don't use them all at once as there would be no room for
anything else.

One curious aspect of my TomTom is the 'keep right' instruction
approaching Keswick from the east on the A66. The feature to be avoided
is a conventional roadside lay-by. It would perhaps be understandable if
it was an oxbow lay-by.

I have had several instances where I've been directed off a motorway
at a junction, only to be directed back on again but with the view at
the right scale I can normally tell which are real route changes and
which are not.

I have been led to believe that all sat-navs suffer from a multitude of
wrongly coded junctions where some side street which might be no more
than a farm lane is considered the major road prompting a 'turn right'
or whatever instruction when in reality all you are doing is driving
round a bend in the road.

Erm, well, again as I can really only speak on behalf of my Garmins,
most of the actual wrong turns are me not interpreting (or sometimes
noticing / trusting) the data correctly. Like turning 50 yards too
early because I forgot to note that it says on the screen '.. in 50
yards ..'.

But yes, I have had (and mostly with the Nuvi) many 'Bear left' type
messages when I would have thought 'Stay on this road' or no comment
at all would be more appropriate. Not many where it has actually sent
us the wrong way. Not the best way maybe.

The reverse of course is potentially more
dangerous if you don't watch out for the road signs.

Indeed.

The thing is, I don't think any system is perfect but I have been so
happy with my Garmins over many years and situations (cars,
motorbikes, cycles, walking and even on a couple of ferries (I wasn't
steeringg)) that I've not had need to look elsewhere.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. The other thing I 'enjoy' with a GPS and autorouting is not
having to do a U turn and pick up your original route plan, if you
miss a junction for some reason and were using a more formal / pre
prepared plan.

Me too. And as I am usually alone in the car these days not having to
stop to look at a map is a real bonus and getting a revised route from
the gps is normally no problem.

Ooops, /I/ missed the turning ... "Off route, recalculating ..
Turn left in 2 miles" and a quick look at the new route and unchanged
ETA suggest that little may have been lost. ;-)

I sometimes ignore instructions when I want to stick to a particular
road. It is very often the case that once the sat-nav gives up on trying
to get you back on its preferred route there is only a marginal
difference in ETA.

--
Roger Chapman

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
writes
tim.... wrote:
"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Davey wrote:
I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving
in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way,
they don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so
making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they
ignore a one-way street that has been there for years. I have
tried to correct them on their website, for which I had to create
an account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed
instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of
using a map.

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way
streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach
your road'?

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors
on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn
restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc.

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

I'll bet that you didn't:-)


The Nuernberg ring does exist, it's mainly dual carriageway, it's also
circumnavigated by Autobahn, the A3, the A9, the A73 and the A6

The Nurburgring isn't but, it is shown as one on german maps

Whatever, it would be "interesting " to see Dennis chugging round either
of them at 50km/h in his Corsair, or whatever POS he drives

And interesting from the point of view that he laid down a challenge and
he could actually redeem himself by actually turning up at either of the
above ...

big boy behind the monitor, yellow livered coward in real life

I notice that *you* didn't turn up and that you wanted to do it during the
day rather than at night.

In message om,
"dennis@home" writes


The Nuernberg ring does exist, it's mainly dual carriageway, it's
also circumnavigated by Autobahn, the A3, the A9, the A73 and the A6

The Nurburgring isn't but, it is shown as one on german maps

Whatever, it would be "interesting " to see Dennis chugging round
either of them at 50km/h in his Corsair, or whatever POS he drives

And interesting from the point of view that he laid down a challenge
and he could actually redeem himself by actually turning up at either
of the above ...

big boy behind the monitor, yellow livered coward in real life

I notice that *you* didn't turn up

No you didn't

I was waiting for you to confirm that you were actually going to turn up

and where? ...

Was it the Nurburgring or the Nuernberg Ring

And when?

I'm up for it anytime

and that you wanted to do it during the day rather than at night.

I really don't remember saying that, why should it have any bearing on
anything anyway?

I will stipulate a dry day, since I'm not taking a 150 hp bike round the
Nurburgring in the wet


So Dennis

State where and when, lets do it






--
geoff

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 21:42:19 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:

On 06/11/2011 14:21, T i m wrote:

Some of these short cuts were nonsensical. Indeed on one
occasion I had to overtake a lorry twice as it had been considerably
quicker taking the long way round than I had been on the 'short cut'.

Yeahbut none of my GPS's have a 'Short cut' option, only 'Shortest.
;-)

Non of mine had either. :-(

Probably all of them had a longer way round that was quicker.

Of course (given the above etc).


Just checked the contents of my map box - 1" -77, 1:50,000 - 36,
1:25,000 (large) - 17, (small) - 13. Perhaps a dozen or more maps of
mostly other scales hidden away elsewhere.

They would weigh a bit in yer knapsack. ;-)

A good job I don't use them all at once as there would be no room for
anything else.

One curious aspect of my TomTom is the 'keep right' instruction
approaching Keswick from the east on the A66. The feature to be avoided
is a conventional roadside lay-by. It would perhaps be understandable if
it was an oxbow lay-by.

I have had several instances where I've been directed off a motorway
at a junction, only to be directed back on again but with the view at
the right scale I can normally tell which are real route changes and
which are not.

I have been led to believe that all sat-navs suffer from a multitude of
wrongly coded junctions where some side street which might be no more
than a farm lane is considered the major road prompting a 'turn right'
or whatever instruction when in reality all you are doing is driving
round a bend in the road.

Erm, well, again as I can really only speak on behalf of my Garmins,
most of the actual wrong turns are me not interpreting (or sometimes
noticing / trusting) the data correctly. Like turning 50 yards too
early because I forgot to note that it says on the screen '.. in 50
yards ..'.

But yes, I have had (and mostly with the Nuvi) many 'Bear left' type
messages when I would have thought 'Stay on this road' or no comment
at all would be more appropriate. Not many where it has actually sent
us the wrong way. Not the best way maybe.

The reverse of course is potentially more
dangerous if you don't watch out for the road signs.

Indeed.

The thing is, I don't think any system is perfect but I have been so
happy with my Garmins over many years and situations (cars,
motorbikes, cycles, walking and even on a couple of ferries (I wasn't
steeringg)) that I've not had need to look elsewhere.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. The other thing I 'enjoy' with a GPS and autorouting is not
having to do a U turn and pick up your original route plan, if you
miss a junction for some reason and were using a more formal / pre
prepared plan.

Me too. And as I am usually alone in the car these days not having to
stop to look at a map is a real bonus and getting a revised route from
the gps is normally no problem.

Ooops, /I/ missed the turning ... "Off route, recalculating ..
Turn left in 2 miles" and a quick look at the new route and unchanged
ETA suggest that little may have been lost. ;-)

I sometimes ignore instructions when I want to stick to a particular
road. It is very often the case that once the sat-nav gives up on trying
to get you back on its preferred route there is only a marginal
difference in ETA.

I have a Tom Tom (fairly long in the tooth now) (510?) but I'm still
happy with it.
Who actually supplies updated information to Tom, such as new
roundabouts etc?
When I got the machine there was an almost brand-new suburban
roundabout which is shewn on Tom Tom, yet there are still a few
features which have been there for yonks which are _not_ displayed...

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland