I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

On 18 Oct, 14:15, AlanD wrote:
I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

Can you not fit a new socket close to left or right of the radiator.
If you sink the box cutout then drill a hole through the side of it to
meet some channelling from the existing socket, you may get away
without it affecting your decoration. You can then fit a blanking
plate under the rad, or fill the old hole providing you have made
connections suitable for burying e.g crimping.

John

On 18/10/2011 14:31, JohnW wrote:
On 18 Oct, 14:15, wrote:
I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

Can you not fit a new socket close to left or right of the radiator.
If you sink the box cutout then drill a hole through the side of it to
meet some channelling from the existing socket, you may get away
without it affecting your decoration. You can then fit a blanking
plate under the rad, or fill the old hole providing you have made
connections suitable for burying e.g crimping.

John

John,

Thanks, that's an approach I hadn't considered, but would be do-able.
Blanking plate behind the rad would be easiest.

Alan.

AlanD wrote:
On 18/10/2011 14:31, JohnW wrote:
On 18 Oct, 14:15, wrote:
I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

Can you not fit a new socket close to left or right of the radiator.
If you sink the box cutout then drill a hole through the side of it to
meet some channelling from the existing socket, you may get away
without it affecting your decoration. You can then fit a blanking
plate under the rad, or fill the old hole providing you have made
connections suitable for burying e.g crimping.

John

John,

Thanks, that's an approach I hadn't considered, but would be do-able.
Blanking plate behind the rad would be easiest.


if you crimp in existing (sunken) backplate, then simply plonk a bit of
newspaper over the wires and cover in bonding plaster, then skim.

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations. All
sockets must now be high enough to ensure that disabled people trip over
the trailing wires from them. So go left or right, but never down.




Alan.

In article ,
AlanD wrote:
Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

That would be the neatest way to replace a two gang socket. You could use
a switch if you wanted instead of the blank.

There are other makes of grid switch systems that may match your existing
sockets in appearance better. But this may not matter if it's concealed by
the rad.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/10/2011 14:15, AlanD wrote:

I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

A Multimaster (or similar) tool can be your friend for this sort of job
- it can make very fine kerf cuts through the tongues etc for lifting
boards without causing much damage.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...can_it_do.3 F


The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Install a new socket some distance to one side of the other, and chase
across to the existing one. Then wire it in as a proper extension to the
circuit. Leave the existing socket where it is, or replace with a
blanking plate (you should not really fill it in since it will be
marking the corner of a now non standard cable route).

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

You can get twin single back boxes, but that would require digging out
the existing box.

However there is no need for a FCU in this application anyway. You can
run a single 2.5mm^2 T&E to the new position and fit either a double
socket, or, a four way socket with integral fuse.

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,

I take it you mean flex outlet rather than cable? Yup they still exist.
Most have the flex outlet at the base, rather than via an ugly hole in
the face.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._CM/index.html

Note these are designed for round flex rather than flat T&E, although
you can probably fit it if you remove the cord clamp.

cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Can you get under the floor by other means? (i.e. is it a suspended
downstairs floor with a void under, or an upstairs floor with a ceiling
below)?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

Tim

In article , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

fred wrote:
In article , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

fred wrote:
In article , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

No, it doesn't in this case.

I am doing a full rewire and I have no requirement to conform to this aspect
of Part M. I know that for a fact 'cos the BCO told me, in person

--
Tim Watts

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
fred wrote:
In article , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

You are mistaken.

Whole house refurbs have been done (and subjected to BCO approval)
without being screwed up by this cripple friendly nonsense.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

fred wrote:
In article , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

No, it doesn't in this case.

I am doing a full rewire and I have no requirement to conform to this
aspect of Part M. I know that for a fact 'cos the BCO told me, in
person

The new sockets go at the same heght as the existing ones on my rewires and
in the existing backbox if possible:-)

--
Adam

On 18/10/2011 17:14, Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

fred wrote:
In , Tim Downie
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

No, it doesn't in this case.

I am doing a full rewire and I have no requirement to conform to this aspect
of Part M. I know that for a fact 'cos the BCO told me, in person

Indeed. BCOs are generally happy if you make things no worse than they
previously were.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/10/2011 15:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
AlanD wrote:
On 18/10/2011 14:31, JohnW wrote:
On 18 Oct, 14:15, wrote:
I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to
join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

Can you not fit a new socket close to left or right of the radiator.
If you sink the box cutout then drill a hole through the side of it to
meet some channelling from the existing socket, you may get away
without it affecting your decoration. You can then fit a blanking
plate under the rad, or fill the old hole providing you have made
connections suitable for burying e.g crimping.

John

John,

Thanks, that's an approach I hadn't considered, but would be do-able.
Blanking plate behind the rad would be easiest.


if you crimp in existing (sunken) backplate, then simply plonk a bit of
newspaper over the wires and cover in bonding plaster, then skim.

Your cable will not be following a straight line from the one remaining
socket then...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/10/2011 15:41, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/10/2011 14:15, AlanD wrote:

I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

A Multimaster (or similar) tool can be your friend for this sort of job
- it can make very fine kerf cuts through the tongues etc for lifting
boards without causing much damage.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...can_it_do.3 F



The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Install a new socket some distance to one side of the other, and chase
across to the existing one. Then wire it in as a proper extension to the
circuit. Leave the existing socket where it is, or replace with a
blanking plate (you should not really fill it in since it will be
marking the corner of a now non standard cable route).

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

You can get twin single back boxes, but that would require digging out
the existing box.

However there is no need for a FCU in this application anyway. You can
run a single 2.5mm^2 T&E to the new position and fit either a double
socket, or, a four way socket with integral fuse.

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,

I take it you mean flex outlet rather than cable? Yup they still exist.
Most have the flex outlet at the base, rather than via an ugly hole in
the face.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._CM/index.html


Note these are designed for round flex rather than flat T&E, although
you can probably fit it if you remove the cord clamp.

cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Can you get under the floor by other means? (i.e. is it a suspended
downstairs floor with a void under, or an upstairs floor with a ceiling
below)?


John,

I have a Fein multimaster but didn't fancy my chances of making a decent
access hole through both the engineered wood and floorboards below to
the new location.

Chasing horizontally is probably the best solution, leaving a blanking
plate at the old location. I've done similar before with 2 parallel cuts
with an angle grinder with diamond disc (and vacuum held to collect dust
during cutting!) so will go for that approach.
I can angle-grind then SDS the new box location to minimize the damage
to the surrounding plaster.

The ugliest part of the final finish will be the rad pipes across the
surface - don't think I can get around that unless I go for microbore
and hide them in the plaster also... Seems un-necessary for a
'temporary' solution.

Alan.

On 18/10/2011 21:04, AlanD wrote:
On 18/10/2011 15:41, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/10/2011 14:15, AlanD wrote:

I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

A Multimaster (or similar) tool can be your friend for this sort of job
- it can make very fine kerf cuts through the tongues etc for lifting
boards without causing much damage.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...can_it_do.3 F




The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Install a new socket some distance to one side of the other, and chase
across to the existing one. Then wire it in as a proper extension to the
circuit. Leave the existing socket where it is, or replace with a
blanking plate (you should not really fill it in since it will be
marking the corner of a now non standard cable route).

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

You can get twin single back boxes, but that would require digging out
the existing box.

However there is no need for a FCU in this application anyway. You can
run a single 2.5mm^2 T&E to the new position and fit either a double
socket, or, a four way socket with integral fuse.

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,

I take it you mean flex outlet rather than cable? Yup they still exist.
Most have the flex outlet at the base, rather than via an ugly hole in
the face.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._CM/index.html



Note these are designed for round flex rather than flat T&E, although
you can probably fit it if you remove the cord clamp.

cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Can you get under the floor by other means? (i.e. is it a suspended
downstairs floor with a void under, or an upstairs floor with a ceiling
below)?


John,

I have a Fein multimaster but didn't fancy my chances of making a decent
access hole through both the engineered wood and floorboards below to
the new location.

You would need to do it in two bites IME. i.e. get through the
engineered floor at a board joint so that you will hide the cut when you
replace it. (depends a bit on which way the boards are running - handy
if its in the same direction as the router you want to follow.

If you need to cut across boards, then plunge in at a 45 degree angle,
then you can just sift them up a couple of mm to lose the cut later (and
the couple of mm will be hidden under the skirting / trim at the wall.

Once the under floor is exposed then you can take out a smaller section
of that.

Chasing horizontally is probably the best solution, leaving a blanking
plate at the old location. I've done similar before with 2 parallel cuts
with an angle grinder with diamond disc (and vacuum held to collect dust
during cutting!) so will go for that approach.
I can angle-grind then SDS the new box location to minimize the damage
to the surrounding plaster.

Yup, or just chase with the SDS if its not a long run - makes a bit less
dust.

The ugliest part of the final finish will be the rad pipes across the
surface - don't think I can get around that unless I go for microbore
and hide them in the plaster also... Seems un-necessary for a
'temporary' solution.

I have chased in 15mm speedfit in the past for a rad connection that
needed to get past a doorway in a room with a solid floor. Squirted a
bit of expanding foam in around the pipe, then filled with bonding
plaster and finally skimmed. Seemed to work nicely.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Oct 18, 2:15*pm, AlanD wrote:
I'm about to mount a vertical radiator (to free up wall space where a
conventional 6' rad is).
New rad is going about 3' away from old. Unfortunately the pipes will
have to go along the surface, clipped to skirting board probably,
because there is an engineered wood floor down which has glued T&G, so
lifting it without destroying it isn't possible.

The problem is that there is a twin gang socket where the bottom of the
new rad will be. (rad brackets sit either side luckily). I can't really
blank it off, as I need power in that area. A FCU with a trailing cable
(clipped to skirting) to a 4-way socket would do, except I can't find
and twin-gang FCU's.

Any suggestions of how to get round this?

Does a twin-to-single plate exist?

Also, I can't find any FCUs with a cable outlet on screwfix's site. Do
such things exist still? I could 'make' one with a Crabtree 3G plate,
cable outlet, Fuse unit and a blank, (with terminal block behind to join
the cables) but is there a neater solution?

Eventually (several years away I expect) I will lift the floor and
re-plumb and re-wire, but for now I have to work above the surface.

Alan.

You can make up a double size FCU with cable outlet in the click
modular range (sorry about the long links):

http://www.downlightsdirect.co.uk/sw...white-pvc.html
http://www.downlightsdirect.co.uk/sw...lar-white.html
http://www.downlightsdirect.co.uk/sw...lar-white.html
http://www.downlightsdirect.co.uk/sw...lar-white.html

Total cost of about 6 pounds, less if you make it unswitched and blank
off the spare modules.
A

On Oct 18, 7:34*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/10/2011 17:14, Tim Watts wrote:









The Natural Philosopher wrote:

fred wrote:
In , Tim Downie
*writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But remember low level sockets are against building regulations.

So don't tell anyone then... ;-)

It's a new build requirement only so doesn't apply anyway.

Does apply to 'material alteration'

Moving a socket is 'material alteration'

No, it doesn't in this case.

I am doing a full rewire and I have no requirement to conform to this aspect
of Part M. I know that for a fact 'cos the BCO told me, in person

Indeed. BCOs are generally happy if you make things no worse than they
previously were.

AFAICT that appears to be the intent of the regs too - so you can't
move light switches further up or sockets further down - but you can
stick with the current height, and match new with old (including in
extensions).

I _want_ light switches where my youngest kids can't reach them, and I
_want_ sockets down and out of the way. Most importantly, I want them
all at the same height. I think a wheelchair user would struggle to
make it into our house, given the steepness of the drive.

Cheers,
David.