hi all

applied to council for 4 drops and 2 sloped

paid survey fee about 20ukp survey done

within a few days

waited for quote for several weeks then had to call them

Quote arrived last week 1670ukp pay in advance work done within 8 weeks of
cheque clearing

called long established localish company

700ukp + vat can be done within 2 weeks no deposit, payment within 30 days
of completion

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

I will be writing to complain to my local councillor once the work is done
and signed off

Regards

"TMC" wrote in message ...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting the
Council too.
--
Vass

"Vass" wrote in message
news
"TMC" wrote in message ...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting the
Council too.
--
Vass
Yep thought about that option but as the nightime fairies have already
stolen the phone lines to our village twice I am not keen to use them

On Oct 11, 12:51 pm, "TMC" wrote:
"Vass" wrote in message

news
"TMC" wrote in m...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting the
Council too.
--
Vass
Yep thought about that option but as the nightime fairies have already
stolen the phone lines to our village twice I am not keen to use them

eh?

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 12:51 pm, "TMC" wrote:
"Vass" wrote in message

news
"TMC" wrote in m...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when
I
already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting
the
Council too.
--
Vass
Yep thought about that option but as the nightime fairies have already
stolen the phone lines to our village twice I am not keen to use them

eh?

Pikeys stole a 1000 pair cable to the village by ripping 100 metres of it
out of the ground

They did this last autumn and again with a different section this year
(apparently the new cable is a lower weight so less copper content hence
taking a different section)

Took 3 weeks to get the phones back to normal

Regards

"TMC" wrote in message
...
hi all

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well



How else can they keep sending councilors on expenses paid trips !

In my local council you can do the work with your own contractor, just have
to apply for permission to have dropped kerbs, and inform them once done so
they can inspect.

"TMC" wrote in message
...



Pikeys stole a 1000 pair cable to the village by ripping 100 metres of it
out of the ground



When I worked for a cable manufacturer ... we used to get many case reports
of overhead conductor theft.

Standard approach was for 'entrepreneurs;' to attach a chain to crow bar,
throw it over the conductors .... it would trip out breaker in sub-station.
They would then get busy with bolt croppers and steal the cable.
Aluminum being expensive then ... even more so now.

In this instance the S.Wales Electricity engineer got called out late at
night, went to sub-station and put the breakers back in without any checks
..... they found 2 very charred and still smoking individuals the next day.

When I had to climb SuperGrid pylons .. and work on one side 'live' while
other side was off, this thought was never too far from my mind.

On Oct 11, 5:01*pm, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
"TMC" wrote in message

...



Pikeys stole a 1000 pair cable to the village by ripping 100 metres of it
out of the ground

When I worked for a cable manufacturer ... we used to get many case reports
of overhead conductor theft.

Standard approach was for 'entrepreneurs;' to attach a chain to crow bar,
throw it over the conductors .... it would trip out breaker in sub-station.

Vass wrote:

"TMC" wrote in message
...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially
when I already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without
alerting the Council too.

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it back to
normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the work, plus
the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a fine :-)

At least that's what happened near one of the private schools in Bedford

--
Donnie - "**** the world, it's time to fight back"
Honda CB500R "Look out, Donnie's about!"
Lambretta Series 2 186cc "The ****ter"
Lambretta LD 175cc "The Chopper"

Rick Hughes wrote:

Standard approach was for 'entrepreneurs;' to attach a chain to crow
bar, throw it over the conductors .... it would trip out breaker in
sub-station.
They would then get busy with bolt croppers and steal the cable.
Aluminum being expensive then ... even more so now.
In this instance the S.Wales Electricity engineer got called out late at
night, went to sub-station and put the breakers back in without any
checks .... they found 2 very charred and still smoking individuals the
next day.

What's not to like?

In article , Newshound
writes
On 11/10/2011 18:36, Andy Burns wrote:
Rick Hughes wrote:

Standard approach was for 'entrepreneurs;' to attach a chain to crow
bar, throw it over the conductors .... it would trip out breaker in
sub-station.
They would then get busy with bolt croppers and steal the cable.
Aluminum being expensive then ... even more so now.
In this instance the S.Wales Electricity engineer got called out late at
night, went to sub-station and put the breakers back in without any
checks .... they found 2 very charred and still smoking individuals the
next day.

What's not to like?

Can't disagree, but actually I'm a bit surprised at this. Suppose it had
just been a conductor coming down on a road, farm, or domestic property.

Reputedly standard practice to clear a fault, initial trip, re-close and
wait (in case it was a bird toasting between 2 lines), 3rd close to
remove the last feathers then it's off cross country to start tracking
the real fault.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

In message , fred writes
In article , Newshound
writes
On 11/10/2011 18:36, Andy Burns wrote:
Rick Hughes wrote:

Standard approach was for 'entrepreneurs;' to attach a chain to crow
bar, throw it over the conductors .... it would trip out breaker in
sub-station.
They would then get busy with bolt croppers and steal the cable.
Aluminum being expensive then ... even more so now.
In this instance the S.Wales Electricity engineer got called out late at
night, went to sub-station and put the breakers back in without any
checks .... they found 2 very charred and still smoking individuals the
next day.

What's not to like?

Can't disagree, but actually I'm a bit surprised at this. Suppose it had
just been a conductor coming down on a road, farm, or domestic property.

Reputedly standard practice to clear a fault, initial trip, re-close
and wait (in case it was a bird toasting between 2 lines), 3rd close to
remove the last feathers then it's off cross country to start tracking
the real fault.
Tune for maximum smoke.
--
hugh

On 11 Oct,
"TMC" wrote:

hi all

applied to council for 4 drops and 2 sloped

paid survey fee about 20ukp survey done

within a few days

waited for quote for several weeks then had to call them

Quote arrived last week 1670ukp pay in advance work done within 8 weeks of
cheque clearing

Similar job 5 years ago I was quoted £500 by the council. No survey fee, just
sent them jpgs of the job. good job /eventually/ done (but that's another
story).


--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On 11 Oct,
"Donnie" wrote:

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it back to
normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the work, plus
the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a fine :-)

We paid for our kerb to be dropped to match proposed drive widening.

Then 6 months later the council re-did most of the nearby roads (but not ours
and the next one). Dropped kerbs for free where the drive was wider than the
existing dropped kerb.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:50:39 +0000, Donnie wrote:

Vass wrote:

"TMC" wrote in message
...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially
when I already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting
the Council too.

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it back to
normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the work, plus
the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a fine :-)

At least that's what happened near one of the private schools in Bedford

Years ago, my Dads workshop straddled a road barrier. We had an entrance
one side, and it would have been useful to have a dropped kerb the other,
but the council got arsey AIR, and refused permission. A couple of years
later, they relaid the pavement along the road. The other denizens of the
industrial estate were very off, not allowing them to draw water, use loos
and making it difficult to park. When they got to our section my Dad
welcomed them in, made tea, no problem to park in our yard, use the loos
help yourselves to water ....

As they moved on, my Dad mentioned the kerb, and the gaffer said "leave
it to me". He got his boss to draw up the paperwork, and as they passed
by, they made a dropped kerb.

20 years later it's still there.

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:50:39 +0000, Donnie wrote:

Vass wrote:

"TMC" wrote in message
...

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially
when I already pay them council tax as well

tisk, and those night time fairies would have done it without alerting
the Council too.

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it back to
normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the work, plus
the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a fine :-)

At least that's what happened near one of the private schools in Bedford

Years ago, my Dads workshop straddled a road barrier. We had an entrance
one side, and it would have been useful to have a dropped kerb the other,
but the council got arsey AIR, and refused permission. A couple of years
later, they relaid the pavement along the road. The other denizens of the
industrial estate were very off, not allowing them to draw water, use loos
and making it difficult to park. When they got to our section my Dad
welcomed them in, made tea, no problem to park in our yard, use the loos
help yourselves to water ....

As they moved on, my Dad mentioned the kerb, and the gaffer said "leave
it to me". He got his boss to draw up the paperwork, and as they passed
by, they made a dropped kerb.

20 years later it's still there.


yep got a replacement street lamp moved a metre to the left of the original
giving me better access to my drive by similar means

Regards

wrote:

On 11 Oct,
"Donnie" wrote:

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it
back to normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the
work, plus the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a
fine :-)

We paid for our kerb to be dropped to match proposed drive widening.

Then 6 months later the council re-did most of the nearby roads (but
not ours and the next one). Dropped kerbs for free where the drive
was wider than the existing dropped kerb.

So, are you saying you already had a dropped kerb then just widened the
drop?

--
Donnie - "**** the world, it's time to fight back"
Honda CB500R "Look out, Donnie's about!"
Lambretta Series 2 186cc "The ****ter"
Lambretta LD 175cc "The Chopper"

On 12 Oct,
"Donnie" wrote:

wrote:

On 11 Oct,
"Donnie" wrote:

heh heh Yes but then the council will soon twig and then put it
back to normal as there's no planning application, bill you for the
work, plus the damage your "contractors" may have caused plus a
fine :-)

We paid for our kerb to be dropped to match proposed drive widening.

Then 6 months later the council re-did most of the nearby roads (but
not ours and the next one). Dropped kerbs for free where the drive
was wider than the existing dropped kerb.

So, are you saying you already had a dropped kerb then just widened the
drop?

Yes.__

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On Oct 11, 10:48*am, "TMC" wrote:
hi all

applied to council for 4 drops and 2 sloped

paid survey fee about 20ukp survey done

within a few days

waited for quote *for several weeks then had to call them

Quote arrived last week 1670ukp pay in advance work done within 8 weeks of
cheque clearing

called long established localish company

700ukp *+ vat can be done within 2 weeks no deposit, payment within 30 days
of completion

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

I will be writing to complain to my local councillor once the work is done
and signed off

Regards

I expect it works the same way as it does elsewhere, namely that the
customer (council) needs to be convinced of various things before
considering a company, and most companies dont jump through the hoops.


NT

On Oct 11, 10:48*am, "TMC" wrote:
hi all

applied to council for 4 drops and 2 sloped

paid survey fee about 20ukp survey done

within a few days

waited for quote *for several weeks then had to call them

Quote arrived last week 1670ukp pay in advance work done within 8 weeks of
cheque clearing

called long established localish company

700ukp *+ vat can be done within 2 weeks no deposit, payment within 30 days
of completion

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

I will be writing to complain to my local councillor once the work is done
and signed off

Regards

Then dont employ their contractor.


NT

TMC wrote:
How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

You don't get anything in return for paying council tax (other than
not being set to prison), it's a tax, not a service charge. The
clue is in the name.

If you only got local services because you were rich enough to
pay tax, then poor people wouldn't get bins emptied, schooling
for their children, policemen, public highways to walk along,
street lights, public libraries, fires put out.....

JGH

On 10/12/2011 8:20 PM, Owain wrote:

It's only because I and others are rich enough to pay tax that poor
people get anything at all. With the result that they can afford Sky
Telly, Buckfast and Smack and I can't. (Not that I want any of those
things, but it would be nice if the public library actually had a
complete set of D.L. Sayers novels.)

You could use Kindle on your computer - the Sayers books are available
from Amazon.

On 12/10/2011 18:38, jgharston wrote:
TMC wrote:
How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

You don't get anything in return for paying council tax (other than
not being set to prison), it's a tax, not a service charge. The
clue is in the name.

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

Andrew May wrote:
On 12/10/2011 18:38, jgharston wrote:
TMC wrote:
How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially
when I
already pay them council tax as well

You don't get anything in return for paying council tax (other than
not being set to prison), it's a tax, not a service charge. The
clue is in the name.

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

It is a fee payable to a government deparment, which is used as part of
the general government revenue stream from other taxes to rpovide
services to the taxpayer. That makes it a tax in my books. It is a
fraction of local government expenditure, with the rest mad up from
central funds (i.e. Taxation).

If it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's either a duck or
someone pretending to be one.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Andrew May wrote:

On 12/10/2011 18:38, jgharston wrote:

You don't get anything in return for paying council tax, it's a tax, not a service charge. The
clue is in the name.

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

The Community Charge was the poll tax that replaced the old rates,
Community Charge was replaced with Council Tax.

Huge wrote:

Andy wrote:

The Community Charge was the poll tax that replaced the old rates,
Community Charge was replaced with Council Tax.

It's irrelevant what it's called; it's a tax.
Try not paying it and see what happens.

I'm not the one claiming it isn't a tax!

On 13/10/11 01:20, Owain wrote:
On Oct 12, 6:38 pm, jgharston wrote:
You don't get anything in return for paying council tax (other than
not being set to prison), it's a tax, not a service charge. The
clue is in the name.

The clue is in the behaviour of many council officers and employees.

If you only got local services because you were rich enough to
pay tax, then poor people wouldn't get bins emptied, schooling
for their children, policemen, public highways to walk along,
street lights, public libraries, fires put out.....

It's only because I and others are rich enough to pay tax that poor
people get anything at all. With the result that they can afford Sky
Telly, Buckfast and Smack and I can't. (Not that I want any of those
things, but it would be nice if the public library actually had a
complete set of D.L. Sayers novels.)

+1

--
djc

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps.
Must ebay it.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps.
Must ebay it.

Call it what you want but it is illegal as you dont have a contract for it.
About the only thing I can think of that you pay out money and have no
contract for what you are paying for.
They know its illegal but will bully and threaten you to make sure you pay
it.
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, that we THINK we own after paying
for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the registered keeper!
not the owner!
The list is endless they are conning us big time with so called legislation.

On Oct 14, 12:07*am, "SS" wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message

... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps.
Must ebay it.

Call it what you want but it is illegal as you dont have a contract for it.

In article , SS wrote:
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, that we THINK we own after paying
for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the registered keeper!
not the owner!

********. I have a receipt from the dealer that says I'm the owner.
The DVLA say I'm also the registered keeper. Two different things.

If I bought a car on hire purchase, I'd be the registered keeper before
I'd finished paying for it, but I wouldn't own it.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 23:28:01 -0700, harry wrote:

On Oct 14, 12:07Â*am, "SS" wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message

... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011
08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps. Must ebay it.

Call it what you want but it is illegal as you dont have a contract for
it. About the only thing I can think of that you pay out money and have
no contract for what you are paying for. They know its illegal but will
bully and threaten you to make sure you pay it.
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, Â*that we THINK we own after
paying for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the
registered keeper! not the owner!
The list is endless they are conning us big time with so called
legislation.

Drivel.
They word it this way because they are not interested in who owns the
car, only who is responsible for/using/(keeping) it on the highway. This
is due to various legal tricks worked by owners in the past.

"It's not my car, it was bought by my parents", to avoid paying road tax
for example.

For once I agree with harry.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 14/10/2011 09:25, Alan Braggins wrote:
In , SS wrote:
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, that we THINK we own after paying
for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the registered keeper!
not the owner!

********. I have a receipt from the dealer that says I'm the owner.
The DVLA say I'm also the registered keeper. Two different things.

If I bought a car on hire purchase, I'd be the registered keeper before
I'd finished paying for it, but I wouldn't own it.

Ah and then after, ye then actually never OWN the car.

In all consumer shopping things of manufactured worth ye have bought a
transferable right to use a particularly arranged lump of assembled
materials, but the way they are connected, the design tooling used, and
the hardware and software contained, are all still owned by the
manufacturing entity or whoever licenses them to make it. Ye don't own
the right to make copies for instance...

Think of all the cars (and Hifi, and Computers, and Wine and Cheeses) ye
have purchased and enjoyed, and once ye make the trip through the pearly
gates all you will have owned is memories of the experience.

But WHAT an experience, good to share ... ;-)

Um, I maybe shouldn't drink Wine mid-day, and I should DIY build my
_own_ car. I have this wheel....



--
Adrian C

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 23:28:01 -0700, harry wrote:

On Oct 14, 12:07*am, "SS" wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message

... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011
08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps. Must ebay it.

Call it what you want but it is illegal as you dont have a contract for
it. About the only thing I can think of that you pay out money and have
no contract for what you are paying for. They know its illegal but will
bully and threaten you to make sure you pay it.
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, *that we THINK we own after
paying for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the
registered keeper! not the owner!
The list is endless they are conning us big time with so called
legislation.

Drivel.
They word it this way because they are not interested in who owns the
car, only who is responsible for/using/(keeping) it on the highway. This
is due to various legal tricks worked by owners in the past.

"It's not my car, it was bought by my parents", to avoid paying road tax
for example.

For once I agree with harry.

Scary, isn't it


--
geoff

In message , SS
writes

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:49:13 +0100, Andrew May
wrote:

No it's not. It's a Community Charge.

I have a Classic t-shirt.
"**** the Poll Tax", it says, in big block caps.
Must ebay it.

Call it what you want but it is illegal as you dont have a contract for it.
About the only thing I can think of that you pay out money and have no
contract for what you are paying for.
They know its illegal but will bully and threaten you to make sure you pay
it.
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, that we THINK we own after paying
for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the registered keeper!
not the owner!


Prat -

Until recently, I owned a van which was kept by my driver

He was the registered keeper, I was the owner

His name was on the V5, I had the bill from Ford

--
geoff

In message , Adrian C
writes
On 14/10/2011 09:25, Alan Braggins wrote:
In , SS wrote:
Just the tip of the iceberg....think car, that we THINK we own after paying
for it, now look at your DVLA document and you are the registered keeper!
not the owner!

********. I have a receipt from the dealer that says I'm the owner.
The DVLA say I'm also the registered keeper. Two different things.

If I bought a car on hire purchase, I'd be the registered keeper before
I'd finished paying for it, but I wouldn't own it.

Ah and then after, ye then actually never OWN the car.

In all consumer shopping things of manufactured worth ye have bought a
transferable right to use a particularly arranged lump of assembled
materials, but the way they are connected, the design tooling used, and
the hardware and software contained, are all still owned by the
manufacturing entity or whoever licenses them to make it.

No, they own the rights on the design, not the actual assemblage of
metal and plastic that I have purchased

As long as the item is paid for, they have no right of repossession

Ye don't own the right to make copies for instance...

Think of all the cars (and Hifi, and Computers, and Wine and Cheeses)
ye have purchased and enjoyed, and once ye make the trip through the
pearly gates all you will have owned is memories of the experience.

But WHAT an experience, good to share ... ;-)

Um, I maybe shouldn't drink Wine mid-day,

\Sounds like a good plan for you


--
geoff

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:48:34 +0100, "TMC" wrote:

hi all

applied to council for 4 drops and 2 sloped

paid survey fee about 20ukp survey done

within a few days

waited for quote for several weeks then had to call them

Quote arrived last week 1670ukp pay in advance work done within 8 weeks of
cheque clearing

called long established localish company

700ukp + vat can be done within 2 weeks no deposit, payment within 30 days
of completion

How do the council justify such a charge and conditions especially when I
already pay them council tax as well

I will be writing to complain to my local councillor once the work is done
and signed off

Regards

This question reminds me of my son-in-laws recent dealings with the
local council.

He bought an old cottage which had a very wide drop of the kerb which
allowed road surface water to easily run over it and flood into the
cottage. I suspect the property had been used as a business in the
past and an extension now covered the access road to the side.

When making contact about having it built up to be level with the
pavement along that stretch of road the chap immediately became uppity
and started to talk about cost. My son-in-law calmly explained that he
wasn't trying to get round paying for the work but just wanted
guidance on authorisation etc.

A few hours after the conversation he had a return call from the
council rep who said that as the conversation had been so amicable he
would arrange for the work to be done.

Sounds like abuse of power if an individual can make personal
decisions like this.

km