My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.
I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Two simple ways to make certain, test the battery in another machine,and
try a working battery in yours. Of course, this does have the
disadvantage of needing access to a machine that is known to be good.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:

Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

A recently purchased IdeaPad has an option to keep the battery charged
to 50% rather than 100%. This is intended in cases where the laptop is
usually left connected to the charger, which hurts the battery
longevity, you can untick the setting when you know you will want the
full 5+ hours battery capacity ...

On 14/08/2011 22:06, John Williamson wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.
I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?


Two simple ways to make certain, test the battery in another machine,and
try a working battery in yours. Of course, this does have the
disadvantage of needing access to a machine that is known to be good.

Not an option, unfortunately. I don't have access to another machine
which uses the same type of battery - and the only way of getting a
working battery is to *buy* one - which is what I'm seeking to avoid
until I'm sure that the charger is ok!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:
On 14/08/2011 22:06, John Williamson wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.
I'm 99% certain that the batteries have died due to old age. The
behaviour of the charging LED suggests that the charging circuitry is
okay. Most Lithium based batteries I've had in laptops have died after
no more than four years. I killed one in a few months by just leaving
the laptop plugged in permanently.

Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 15/08/2011 07:23, John Williamson wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:


Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?


As per my original post, it's an HP/Compaq nx9005 with an F4809 battery.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:
On 15/08/2011 07:23, John Williamson wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:


Thanks. What would the charging LED do if the charger was duff?

Stay off, IME. Which model of laptop is it?


As per my original post, it's an HP/Compaq nx9005 with an F4809 battery.

I should have re-read the original post, but I'm stuck on a netbook with
a tiny screen and it's *way* up there^.

Unfortunately, I don't have one, or one which uses the same battery,so I
can't offer a spare unit type check.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power is
removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I will
have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I can't
make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to have its
own built-in UPS!


After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life. Indeed
the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses and buy a new
machine.

Regards from Peter Crosland

On 15/08/2011 07:38, Peter Crosland wrote:



After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life. Indeed
the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses and buy a new
machine.


The two batteries have been used serially - so that's only 4 years each,
but even that may be beyond their expected life!

The laptop has already been pretty much retired, and is mainly only used
as a standby machine. It had to be pressed into service recently when my
wife's computer picked up a virus - and she was able to use the laptop
whilst I sorted her main computer.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In o.uk,
Peter Crosland wrote:
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.

Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.

3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode

And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.

The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.

I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?

So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

On Aug 15, 11:18*am, "BillW50" wrote:
Innews:VNGdnSNKo_1BI9XTnZ2dnUVZ7t6dnZ2d@brightview .co.uk,

Peter Crosland wrote:
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.

Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.

3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode

And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.

The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.

I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?

So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

It should be perfectly able to manage 10 years and more, what usually
makes old machines unusable is people putting ill suited OSes and apps
on them. Linux Antix or Puppy should run very well on such machines.


NT

On 8/19/2011 5:33 PM, NT wrote:
On Aug 15, 11:18 am, wrote:
Innews:VNGdnSNKo_1BI9XTnZ2dnUVZ7t6dnZ2d@brightview .co.uk,

Peter Crosland wrote:
After eight years the batteries are well beyond their design life.
Indeed the machine is as well. You might consider cutting your losses
and buy a new machine.

Regards from Peter Crosland

I don't know... I don't think the same way about older laptops as you do
about them. For example I have 10 laptops from 2006 alone.

3 Gateway MX6124
6 Gateway M465
1 Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900 GPU connected in SLI mode

And I have no interest whatsoever in any newer machines, except my four
netbooks from 2008. And my fascination with 2006 models is that they are
at the crossroads between XP, Vista, and Windows 7. And anything newer
it is hard to find XP drivers if they exist at all. And newer machines
don't have Cardbus slots anymore.

The Gateway M465 laptops are very versatile as well. They support
docking stations, 2 hard drives, 2 batteries, floppy drive and a wide
range of CPUs work in these things. Thus they can run either 32 bit or
64 bit OS. And because of the docking station, you don't have to worry
whether the DC jack works or not. And they came out with either matte or
glossy, wide or non-wide screens.

I see 2006 as a great year for computers including laptops. And IMHO
newer machines just are not as versatile. Heck does any newer laptops
even support docking stations anymore? Or are they gone too?

So how long can I use these 2006 laptops? I am not sure. Frankly I am
surprised they can still keep up with the latest software. Back in 2006,
I thought 2011 was when I had to give them up and to move on. But 2011
is here and I might still be using them in 2016. ;-)

It should be perfectly able to manage 10 years and more, what usually
makes old machines unusable is people putting ill suited OSes and apps
on them. Linux Antix or Puppy should run very well on such machines.

NT

Much thanks NT. ;-)


--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo 2GHz - 1.5GB - Windows 7

Well, if this situation has been going on for a while, the batteries will
almost certainly be dead now in any case. They prefer to be left in a semi
charged state, or they then fail to charge at all when you try to charge
them after a long period.
So, it really depends on whether the machine is worth getting fixed if the
charger is dodgy.
You would need a new battery in any case I'd think.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power is
removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I will
have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I can't
make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to have its
own built-in UPS!

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100
Roger Mills wrote:

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat
battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row
of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the
front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and
turns green when it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is
this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge
indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop
if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains
power is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days,
and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I bought
a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago. Now it
behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also have
wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I shall be
interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have bought a new
laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the Compaq.
--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100
Roger Mills wrote:

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat
battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row
of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the
front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and
turns green when it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is
this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge
indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop
if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains
power is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days,
and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I bought
a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago. Now it
behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also have
wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I shall be
interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have bought a new
laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the Compaq.

Something I have noticed on my Armada is that aftermarket batteries are
very variable in quality. I bought a pair, so I could put one in the CD
drive slot, and one in the normal slot, one lasted a year or two, the
other failed totally within weeks.

The both gave symptoms as described when they failed, with the bonus
that one generated a BIOS error message saying the battery was faulty.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:21:45 +0100
John Williamson wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:49:59 +0100
Roger Mills wrote:

My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat
battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a
new one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a
row of LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical
connector, which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the
battery via circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on
the front of the laptop which is amber when the battery is
charging, and turns green when it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens
is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for
the whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery
immediately after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the
charge indicator LEDs light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the
laptop if mains power is not present. If when the laptop is
running, mains power is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp
flashes amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2
days, and then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no
avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with
the internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written
above? I don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger
is duff, I will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if
I can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a
laptop to have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.

I have a similar situation to you. My laptop is an nx9010, and I
bought a new replacement battery just over a year and a half ago.
Now it behaves exactly as you describe, in every detail, and I also
have wondered whether it's the battery or the charging system. I
shall be interested in the conclusion, if any, although I have
bought a new laptop, which far outstrips the abilities of the
Compaq.

Something I have noticed on my Armada is that aftermarket batteries
are very variable in quality. I bought a pair, so I could put one in
the CD drive slot, and one in the normal slot, one lasted a year or
two, the other failed totally within weeks.

The both gave symptoms as described when they failed, with the bonus
that one generated a BIOS error message saying the battery was faulty.


All I got was the information that it was almost fully charged, but it
wasn't.
The fact that the LED is alight does tend to indicate that the charging
system is functioning, rather than the battery. But is could also be
that the system is overcharging the battery, leading to its early
demise.
--
Davey.

On Aug 14, 9:49*pm, Roger Mills wrote:
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

If regularly used on mains, take the battery out, as they don't like
the heat.

MBQ

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

One of the problems with the modern Lithium based batteries is that
they start deteriorating the minute they're manufactured and continue
to do so throughout their lifetime whether they are used or not.

So when replacing the battery on an old laptop the problem is to find
a new battery that was not manufactured 2 years ago (or longer) and
has been sitting on the shelf ever since waiting to be sold. This
battery can be sold as new, and comes in a new unopened package, but
electrically it won't be new.

For that reason IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

In ,
AJL wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

One of the problems with the modern Lithium based batteries is that
they start deteriorating the minute they're manufactured and continue
to do so throughout their lifetime whether they are used or not.

So when replacing the battery on an old laptop the problem is to find
a new battery that was not manufactured 2 years ago (or longer) and
has been sitting on the shelf ever since waiting to be sold. This
battery can be sold as new, and comes in a new unopened package, but
electrically it won't be new.

For that reason IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by sitting on
the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his. You should check
them every year or two and charge them if the voltage has dropped too
low. As once they hit something like 3.4 volts per cell, the safety
circuit might refuse to charge them anymore. As once the cells hit 2.8
volts per cell, they like to burst into flames if you try to charge
them.

So the way I look at it... say a battery was manufactured four to five
years ago. Anything older probably lost too much of its charge and the
safety circuits will refuse to charge it. And even being this old and
treated right, it should last about another 5 to 7 years.

So I don't know about you, But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks. While Li-Ion batteries which are
older can be had for about 40 bucks. Remember the sellers are trying to
get rid of them before they will refuse to charge. As once they get to
this state, they can't even give them away. So spend 200 bucks and get
about 10 to 12 years out of it. Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7
years out of those. I dunno, I rather go for the older Li-Ion batteries
if you ask me. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:49:58 -0500, "BillW50" wrote:

In ,
AJL wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by sitting on
the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his.

Yes I do remember those 'who has the oldest battery' campfire stories
from times past here. Kinda like the mine is bigger than yours? 8-O

But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks.

Just checked several sites and found batteries for my 4 year old Acer
laptop (4315) ranging from about US$50 to $100.

While Li-Ion batteries which are older can be had for about 40 bucks.

Cheap is not always better in batteries (though it could be). Problem
is how do you tell? I would likely go with a branded dealer like
Duracell.com and pay the price.

So spend 200 bucks and get about 10 to 12 years out of it.
Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7 years out of those.

Other than bragging rights why would you need a 12 year old battery?

In ,
AJL wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:49:58 -0500, "BillW50" wrote:

In ,
AJL wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

Can you still get a genuine OEM battery? I would be wary of a cheap
"replacement".

IMO you are better off to go to a high volume battery
store and get a remanufactured battery with *fresh cells*...

That is all true of course. But I get 10 years out of mine by
sitting on the shelf. While Barry Watzman got 12 years out of his.

Yes I do remember those 'who has the oldest battery' campfire stories
from times past here. Kinda like the mine is bigger than yours? 8-O

Yes, Barry had better luck with his lithium batteries than I. So what
can I say? lol

Btw, those 10 year old batteries are now 12 years old and I haven't
taken out of the drawer in two years. They could be history or they
might still be good. They fit my 12 year old Toshiba 2595XDVD laptops.
And they just sit up on the shelf doing nothing, so I really don't care
if the batteries are still good or not. ;-)

But freshly manufactured laptop Li-Ion
batteries usually cost like 200 bucks.

Just checked several sites and found batteries for my 4 year old Acer
laptop (4315) ranging from about US$50 to $100.

Yes, but are those one month old batteries? Or were they manufactured 4
years ago?

While Li-Ion batteries which are older can be had for about 40 bucks.

Cheap is not always better in batteries (though it could be). Problem
is how do you tell? I would likely go with a branded dealer like
Duracell.com and pay the price.

Well there are those stories about cheap knockoffs which got into the
dealers supply chain. Remember those stories a few years back? Things
like cell phones bursting into flames while they were using them or in
their pockets.

Then there was I believe who was Sony, who thought they were clever. As
they made the battery layers thinner and gave them larger capacity for a
smaller package. Sounded good on the surface. But the layers were too
thin and they begun to short internally and burst into flames. I think
they said that was the largest battery recall in history.

So spend 200 bucks and get about 10 to 12 years out of it.
Or spend about 40 bucks and get 5 to 7 years out of those.

Other than bragging rights why would you need a 12 year old battery?

That is what I am saying. Who cares if the battery was freshly
manufactured or not? As if an unused five year old battery for 40 bucks
gives me 6 years of service after I get it. I find that totally
acceptable. Don't you?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery -
or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new one a
few years ago and they are now both the same.

The battery in my HP/Compaq dv9500 was pretty much dead after 3 years. I did
not want to pay $100 plus for a new battery so I just kept it plugged in.
After a year I decided I needed the battery. I couldn't believe those $100
batterys were now selling for $30 on Amazon.com. I bought one and so far
have no complaints. A few days later I saw a documentary on the problems
caused by product knockoffs, mostly from China. Laptop batterys were one of
the products they talked about.
If my laptop battery is dead within a year I'll know it was probably one of
those knockoffs.

On 8/14/2011 1:49 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
My 8-year-old HP/Compaq nx9005 laptop has got a completely flat battery
- or, rather, *two* completely flat batteries, because I bought a new
one a few years ago and they are now both the same.

The power arrangements for this laptop are as follows:

The battery is lithium-ion, 14.8v, 4400mAH (type F4809). It has a row of
LEDs on the side to indicate the state of charge.

The mains power supply delivers 18.5vDC through a cylindrical connector,
which powers the laptop when on mains, and charges the battery via
circuitry built into the laptop. There is a light on the front of the
laptop which is amber when the battery is charging, and turns green when
it is fully charged.

Well, that's what's *supposed* to happen. What *actually* happens is this:

If I 'charge' the battery for (say) 24 hours, the lamp is amber for the
whole time and never turns green. If I remove the battery immediately
after 'charging', it is stone cold and none of the charge indicator LEDs
light when the test button is pressed.

Even after a long charging period, the battery won't start the laptop if
mains power is not present. If when the laptop is running, mains power
is removed, it stops dead.

If I run the laptop without a battery present, the charge lamp flashes
amber (but is solid amber if a battery is present).

I have tried putting one of the batteries in the freezer for 2 days, and
then thawing it and attempting to charge it - all to no avail.

Sorry for the long pre-amble! My question is this:

How can I tell whether the problem lies with the battery or with the
internal charger? Are there any clues in what I have written above? I
don't mind buying another new battery but, if the charger is duff, I
will have wasted my money.

I usually run it on mains anyway, so it's not a total disaster if I
can't make the battery work - but one does tend to expect a laptop to
have its own built-in UPS!

TIA.

I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long. Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work? I like to leave the laptop plugged
in all the time but now what I read here is that's a bad think to do.

digger wrote:

I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long. Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work?

What technology is the battery? Lithium based ones don't like that, you
just eat an extra cycle from the lifetime.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:41:37 -0700, digger
wrote:

I just got a new used laptop and the battery doesn't last too long.

Used? Probably 80% chance it's a bad battery. But what do you use it
for? Video really sucks the juice. And anything running in the
background? These types of things can really shorten the battery life.

Some
places I read says to let it uncharge all the way a few times to restore
it to full capacity. Would that work?

If it's an Li-ion battery some laptops manuals say to discharge the
battery down to automatic turnoff once every few months to recalibrate
the battery's microprocessor. Others are 'precalibrated' and have no
such instructions. What does your manual say (if you have or can find
one)? Probably wouldn't hurt to try it once just to see if it helps.

I like to leave the laptop plugged
in all the time but now what I read here is that's a bad think to do.

Mainly because the laptop heat reportedly reduces battery longevity.
Personally I find it a hassle to always go hunting up the battery
which may or may not be fully charged when I want to go mobile so I
just leave mine laptops plugged in all the time. I've yet to have to
buy a replacement. The one I'm using tonight (Acer 4315) is 4 years
old and has been plugged in its whole life (whenever it's not mobile).
I'm sure the battery has lost some capacity over the years but it is
still quite serviceable.

replying to Roger Mills, tahrey wrote:
If you've got four years use out of each battery, you've done extremely well.
I've not known laptop lithium batteries to last longer than that. Three years
is more par for the course, and their usable capacity is already on the slide
by the end of the second. The laptop I'm typing on is entering its sixth year,
and has its second battery in place, which is already down to about 20% of
original capacity. As the system is set to shut down into hibernation at 15%
(a seemingly vain attempt to prevent over-discharge and the lifespan reduction
that causes), that essentially means the machine is completely tied to the
mains and the battery is only really useful to keep it alive for a couple of
minutes when moving it between rooms (or sockets in the same room) without
shutting down, or as a safety "parachute" if there's a sudden power cut.

That doesn't mean the power supply is behaving itself however - I've had to
get an HP-Compaq laptop PSU replaced before as it failed in such a way that it
had just enough power to run the laptop in light usage conditions, or charge
the battery in a slightly sluggish fashion when the machine was turned off,
but not both at the same time (and high power use would gradually drain a full
battery). Whilst the battery is almost certainly dead, its death might have
been hastened by a dicky supply. Sadly the only way you can really test it is
by installing a working battery and observing the power-on charging behaviour,
maybe with a third party battery / power use monitor utility (or an OEM one if
they bothered to supply such). With the battery fully drained, it should be
able to charge at a rate representing 0 to 100% in under two hours (or just
one hour for some models), which then tapers off above 80~85%, with the
machine turned on but idling or only working lightly. With the processor,
graphics and disk working hard, that rate shouldn't drop to less than half and
there should still be a taper-down noticeable above maybe 90%. Alternatively
you can plug it into a power meter and see how much the PSU draws. At full
tilt it should be somewhere around the rating printed on the body; if it's
significantly less (below 75% or so, and particularly under 50%) even with the
cooling fan howling and your lap being thoroughly cooked then it's probably
defective.

An eight year old laptop, though, that's very much prime for replacement. I
keep my computers running as long as reasonably possible, and then a little
more, and I've not yet managed to keep a machine operating in a satisfactory
manner with contemporary software much beyond its 7th year. At least not for
those of middling to slightly above average performance, which tend to be the
best value (not "cheapest"). If it was originally a top-of-the-range model I
guess you may get an extra couple of years (I've seen Core 2 Duo/Quad desktops
stretch well into their 8th year whilst still being just about usable), but
even then I'd suggest you'd be better off resigning to the idea that it's had
its day, and the failed battery and potentially iffy power supply are good
reasons to replace the entire machine. You've definitely had your money's
worth out of it, and even the cheapest, nastiest machine you can buy now will
significantly outstrip a high end machine of 8 years ago in terms of
performance. I'd be looking to replace this one already (the generational
shift to 64-bit operating systems is increasingly leaving me disappointed when
looking at the minimum specs of otherwise attractive software, as it only has
32-bit Windows and there's no point spending money on an OS upgrade for a
machine that may only have another 12~18 months of service left in it), if
only I wasn't out of work and increasingly short of cash right now.

--
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