Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

Steve wrote:

Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

Injecting epoxy would probably have more success than nomorenails for this
application.
--
Tim Watts

On 19/07/2011 11:38, Owain wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:23 am, Steve wrote:
I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through?

How far back from the nosing? Could you drill in from the nosing and
use a really long screw to pull the two pieces together?

Owain


It's about 100mm in. Would that not weaken the front piece if I drilled
for a, say, 125 / 150mm screw ?

S

On 19/07/2011 11:20, Tim Watts wrote:
Steve wrote:

Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

Injecting epoxy would probably have more success than nomorenails for this
application.

Ok, so can you buy ready mixed epoxy already in something to inject it
with? I've never bought / used epoxy before other than araldite.

S

Steve wrote:
Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S
rout some slots across the split and fit new wood and glue it all up

Epoxy maybe not the best. glue with PVA gap fill with body filler.
ift whole tread and replace with glued and screwed ply/MDF

Steve wrote:

On 19/07/2011 11:20, Tim Watts wrote:
Steve wrote:

Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

Injecting epoxy would probably have more success than nomorenails for
this application.

Ok, so can you buy ready mixed epoxy already in something to inject it
with? I've never bought / used epoxy before other than araldite.

S

Just use araldite - and a small syringe - the nose on a typical syringe
should be fine enough depending on the width of the crack.
--
Tim Watts

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:23:30 +0100, Steve wrote:

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width.

How wide? Pictures paint a thousand words... tinypic.com is handy to
bung a picture onto, you can get URL that just sends just the image
to people not reams of useless scripting nonsense, acres of ads or
needs a plugin to show a "slide show".

It doesn't appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't
need to worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it
makes a loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before
putting a new carpet in.

I shouldn't think it breaking is a concern not 100mm from the nose.
You just need to stop the bits moving relative to each other. If the
crack is narrow getting enough glue down into it will be tricky, thin
bit of stiff plastic (PET blister pack?) may help and it would be
good to push the two bits together as well but that won't be easy. It
would be tricky but not impossible to partly drill a pilot hole for a
120-130 mm screw from the nose in. The tricky bit is getting that
pilot hole parallel to the tread so the screw doesn't break out top
or bottom when fully home.

I'm not convinced epoxy is suitable it tends to set rather hard and
isn't flexable. The tread is timber if will move due to variations in
humidity and due to the loading. Your glue needs to accomodate that
movement. Think I'd stick with ordinary wood working PVA.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 19/07/2011 17:09, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:23:30 +0100, Steve wrote:

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width.

How wide? Pictures paint a thousand words... tinypic.com is handy to
bung a picture onto, you can get URL that just sends just the image
to people not reams of useless scripting nonsense, acres of ads or
needs a plugin to show a "slide show".


Good point. See below.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2up5noz.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/20uevcz.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/123mlag.jpg

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:34:02 +0100, Steve wrote:

How wide? Pictures paint a thousand words...

Good point. See below.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2up5noz.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/20uevcz.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/123mlag.jpg

Oh yuk, old, wide and full of crud. I was expecting an new narrow
crack...

Can you work out where the creaking is coming from? Might take a
couple of people one to provoke the creak and another to listen close
by the tread, risers and stringers. Looks like a couple of newish
nails center of the tread an inch or so back from the nosing, perhaps
the front bit of tread is moving against the riser?

If I couldn't track down the place of the creak to work directly on
that, either by stopping the movement some how or seperating the
surfaces so they don't rub when the movement happens. I think I'd
clean the crud out of the crack and fill it as much as possible not
sure what with though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 19/07/2011 19:44, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:34:02 +0100, Steve wrote:

How wide? Pictures paint a thousand words...

Good point. See below.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2up5noz.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/20uevcz.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/123mlag.jpg

Oh yuk, old, wide and full of crud. I was expecting an new narrow
crack...

Can you work out where the creaking is coming from? Might take a
couple of people one to provoke the creak and another to listen close
by the tread, risers and stringers. Looks like a couple of newish
nails center of the tread an inch or so back from the nosing, perhaps
the front bit of tread is moving against the riser?

If I couldn't track down the place of the creak to work directly on
that, either by stopping the movement some how or seperating the
surfaces so they don't rub when the movement happens. I think I'd
clean the crud out of the crack and fill it as much as possible not
sure what with though.


Ok, cheers. Sounds like TNP's router suggestion is looking favorite -
trouble with that is you gotta make it worse before it gets better!

S

On Jul 19, 10:23*am, Steve wrote:
Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? *The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? *I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. *Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

I would screw and glue a bit of plywood (big aspossible) on underneath
and then fill the crack from the top with something.

On 19/07/2011 20:45, harry wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:23 am, wrote:
Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

I would screw and glue a bit of plywood (big aspossible) on underneath
and then fill the crack from the top with something.

Yeah, would like to do that, but I can't get to the underneath at all
(without demolishing downstairs bog and I aint in a position to do that)

In article , Steve
writes
On 19/07/2011 19:44, Dave Liquorice wrote:

If I couldn't track down the place of the creak to work directly on
that, either by stopping the movement some how or seperating the
surfaces so they don't rub when the movement happens. I think I'd
clean the crud out of the crack and fill it as much as possible not
sure what with though.


Ok, cheers. Sounds like TNP's router suggestion is looking favorite -
trouble with that is you gotta make it worse before it gets better!

Ok, if we're going for opening up the crack, how about routing the crack
into a 1/2" slot then feeding a piece of 12mm ply[1] through to the
underside. Use wires attached to the ply to pull it back into place
under the tread. Screw through the tread into the ply to stabilise and
fill the surface slot with wood and glue. Maybe add wood glue to the ply
before putting it through the slot too.

[1] just smaller than the underside of the tread
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

John Rumm wrote:
It's about 100mm in. Would that not weaken the front piece if I
drilled for a, say, 125 / 150mm screw ?

Nope, not really. Glue the crack, 3 or 4 screws to pull it tight. If
you want to be really anal, then a layer of 3mm ply glued over the
whole tread.

I'm not keen on the ply as it alters the height between treads, and somebody
could fall. I know it's only 3mm, so the risk isn't too great, but then it's
only to cure a small creak, so the reward isn't great either.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 23:36:24 +0100, fred wrote:

In article , Steve
writes
On 19/07/2011 19:44, Dave Liquorice wrote:

If I couldn't track down the place of the creak to work directly on
that, either by stopping the movement some how or seperating the
surfaces so they don't rub when the movement happens. I think I'd
clean the crud out of the crack and fill it as much as possible not
sure what with though.


Ok, cheers. Sounds like TNP's router suggestion is looking favorite -
trouble with that is you gotta make it worse before it gets better!

Ok, if we're going for opening up the crack, how about routing the crack
into a 1/2" slot then feeding a piece of 12mm ply[1] through to the
underside. Use wires attached to the ply to pull it back into place
under the tread. Screw through the tread into the ply to stabilise and
fill the surface slot with wood and glue. Maybe add wood glue to the ply
before putting it through the slot too.

[1] just smaller than the underside of the tread

That's how I would do it. Just change the 'Maybe add wood glue' to
'Absolutely definitely use wood glue.' When I use a variation on this
technique to repair cracked cello sides, I use a ball-ended musical
instrument string as my wire and a section of broom handle dowel as a
winding post which when fully tight acts as a clamp.

Nick

In article , Nick Odell
writes
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 23:36:24 +0100, fred wrote:

Ok, if we're going for opening up the crack, how about routing the crack
into a 1/2" slot then feeding a piece of 12mm ply[1] through to the
underside. Use wires attached to the ply to pull it back into place
under the tread. Screw through the tread into the ply to stabilise and
fill the surface slot with wood and glue. Maybe add wood glue to the ply
before putting it through the slot too.

[1] just smaller than the underside of the tread

That's how I would do it. Just change the 'Maybe add wood glue' to
'Absolutely definitely use wood glue.' When I use a variation on this
technique to repair cracked cello sides, I use a ball-ended musical
instrument string as my wire and a section of broom handle dowel as a
winding post which when fully tight acts as a clamp.

Interesting stuff, it never fails to impress me the range of skills
contributing here. In your technique is the tone and resonance of the
instrument altered by the repair? Does it need to be a really thin
sliver of wood that is added?

I'm hoping the o/p's task will be simpler as he can rely on screws
through the thread and into the ply[2] to pull the ply backer into
place. Not something I imagine is acceptable for an instrument repair
:-).

[2] I think I'd use over long screws (lots of) so that they pass through
the ply and the best part of the thread is biting into it.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:30:25 +0100, fred wrote:

In article , Nick Odell
writes
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 23:36:24 +0100, fred wrote:

Ok, if we're going for opening up the crack, how about routing the crack
into a 1/2" slot then feeding a piece of 12mm ply[1] through to the
underside. Use wires attached to the ply to pull it back into place
under the tread. Screw through the tread into the ply to stabilise and
fill the surface slot with wood and glue. Maybe add wood glue to the ply
before putting it through the slot too.

[1] just smaller than the underside of the tread

That's how I would do it. Just change the 'Maybe add wood glue' to
'Absolutely definitely use wood glue.' When I use a variation on this
technique to repair cracked cello sides, I use a ball-ended musical
instrument string as my wire and a section of broom handle dowel as a
winding post which when fully tight acts as a clamp.

Interesting stuff, it never fails to impress me the range of skills
contributing here. In your technique is the tone and resonance of the
instrument altered by the repair? Does it need to be a really thin
sliver of wood that is added?

What I actually do varies from instrument to instrument and depends as
much on the value of the instrument as the complexity of the problem.
The three main components in producing the sound are the top, the back
and the air in between so in one sense the sides don't matter much but
an ugly repair is unprofessional and to be avoided if possible.

On the workbench at the moment I've actually got a cello with a split
rib. It's not been stoved in so it doesn't need pulling out or new
wood cutting in so I'm going to close the crack and then tie it with
small, thin, flat slivers of matching wood with the grain running
across the crack. Traditionally, these are made as flat diamonds with
bevelled edges but they may be any suitable shape and appropriate
size. When I've finished, you'll be able to squint inside and see a
neat row of little diamonds starting and finishing at each end of the
crack and evenly spaced along its length.

I'm hoping the o/p's task will be simpler as he can rely on screws
through the thread and into the ply[2] to pull the ply backer into
place. Not something I imagine is acceptable for an instrument repair
:-).

I thought about mentioning that I don't add screws then hoped that in
amongst this company I wouldn't need to!

[2] I think I'd use over long screws (lots of) so that they pass through
the ply and the best part of the thread is biting into it.

Nick

On 7/19/2011 9:23 PM, Steve wrote:
Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

It's already been mentioned, but to add my 2p ... Since creaking is the
only consideration, surely the simplest fix would be just to more firmly
attach whichever piece (or both) is moving. I'm not sure how stairs are
constructed - you'd need to find the location of the supports. Then a
couple of screws should do the trick, angled if necessary. Even simpler
- if it is the relative motion at the crack that's making noise, just
widen the crack so the pieces don't touch.

On Jul 19, 10:23*am, Steve wrote:
Hey all!

I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through? *The main concern is that it makes a
loud creak when stepped on, which I would like to resolve before putting
a new carpet in.

What would be the best way to do this? *I've read on the tinterweb that
filling with epoxy is best, but a) I don't know how epoxy comes - it
makes me think of either araldite, or fibreglass resin and b) most
discussions spoke about getting to the underside of the stairs -
unfortunately, I can't get underneath the stairs - it's all boarded in
in the downstairs bog. *Would running a squirt of no more nails in the
crack then taping over with gaffer tape be any use? As I said, I'm only
trying to reduce the noise it makes.

Thanks for any advice
S

Grab adhesive like no more nails is totally unsuitable, it wont run
into cracks. Epoxy is an excellent glue, but most formulations are too
thick to run fully into the crack. You can get very thin epoxy, it
woudl be ideal but you wont have it in stock.

50/50 diluted pva would run in - but you then need to clamp the thing
up while it sets. That can be done by screwing into the top of the non-
nose section to permit clamping. PVA wont work if an open gap is left.

Another option is to trim out a ltitle wood to enable metal strips to
be sunk in flush and screwed down. The result would be less stong than
gluing.


NT

On Jul 19, 3:44 pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/07/2011 11:45, Steve wrote:

On 19/07/2011 11:38, Owain wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:23 am, Steve wrote:
I've just lifted my stair carpet and found that the second tread up on
the staircase has a crack running pretty much the full width. It doesn't
appear to 'give' downwards, so at this stage I assume I don't need to
worry about it breaking through?

How far back from the nosing? Could you drill in from the nosing and
use a really long screw to pull the two pieces together?

Owain

It's about 100mm in. Would that not weaken the front piece if I drilled
for a, say, 125 / 150mm screw ?

Nope, not really. Glue the crack, 3 or 4 screws to pull it tight. If you
want to be really anal, then a layer of 3mm ply glued over the whole tread.

could you temporarily screw soome meaty screws through the tread both
sides i.e. front and rear of crack, left and right of tread and then
use clamps across the pairs of same screws to pull the split tread
together whilst whatever glue used sets? then remove the screws....

Jim K

On 21/07/2011 5:11 p.m., John Rumm wrote:
On 21/07/2011 04:11, Gib Bogle wrote:

It's already been mentioned, but to add my 2p ... Since creaking is the
only consideration, surely the simplest fix would be just to more firmly
attach whichever piece (or both) is moving. I'm not sure how stairs are
constructed - you'd need to find the location of the supports. Then a
couple of screws should do the trick, angled if necessary. Even simpler
- if it is the relative motion at the crack that's making noise, just
widen the crack so the pieces don't touch.

Have a look at the ones I built he

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

You can see its the wedges that hold everything together. Alas fixing
creeks etc later is hard if you can't get to the wedges. Consolidating
the split treat will no doubt help.

Assuming that his stairs were similarly constructed, a couple of screws
angled out towards the wedges should do the trick, I'd say.

On 25/07/2011 03:44, Gib Bogle wrote:
On 21/07/2011 5:11 p.m., John Rumm wrote:
On 21/07/2011 04:11, Gib Bogle wrote:

It's already been mentioned, but to add my 2p ... Since creaking is the
only consideration, surely the simplest fix would be just to more firmly
attach whichever piece (or both) is moving. I'm not sure how stairs are
constructed - you'd need to find the location of the supports. Then a
couple of screws should do the trick, angled if necessary. Even simpler
- if it is the relative motion at the crack that's making noise, just
widen the crack so the pieces don't touch.

Have a look at the ones I built he

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

You can see its the wedges that hold everything together. Alas fixing
creeks etc later is hard if you can't get to the wedges. Consolidating
the split treat will no doubt help.

Assuming that his stairs were similarly constructed, a couple of screws
angled out towards the wedges should do the trick, I'd say.

It might pull the wedge tight against the tread, but then away from the
rebate in the string... you may be able to screw it partly in, then tap
it toward the back of the tread (to force the wedge forward) before
finally driving it home - pinning the wedge in place.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Just to feedback, I wasn't able to get my hands on a router - I don't
own one and I wasn't able to borrow one. I didn't feel hiring one was
worth it - it's not *that* much to gain. I tried screwing a batten to
the back piece and pulling it towards the nose piece (or pushing the
nose backwards) either way, neither of the two pieces were moving.

In the end, I put some floor screws through the tread into the riser, as
it sounds like the front piece was the main culprit. As it happens, it
was and the creaking has stopped. Obviously the split is still in the
tread, I just hope this won't be a problem.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice and ideas.