One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

On Feb 6, 9:42*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
* * *http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I would glue the repair plate to the bottom of the cracked tread as
you suggested, and also secure it with screws just long enough to go
into the cracked tread, but not so long as to come thru the tread, and
leave the screws in permanently. If the tread crack is 18 - 20 inches
long in a tread that is probably 30 - 44 inches wide, I would work in
as big a piece of wood as possible and not skimp on the screws. You
may want to predrill the holes in both the repair plate and the stair
tread to prevent any further cracking/ I think regular wood glue
should be ok, it dries so strong that a different part of the wood
will crack before the glues section will crack.

On Feb 6, 10:42*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
* * *http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I see how they are toenailed in with finishing nails. I dont
understand why unless there is nothing under them to nail to, thats a
scary thought. I dont think the tread would really be that hard to
take out. It looks the the front half of the tread would come on out
with a little persuasion. Then you could glue it back together and
nail it back down. Forgive me for saying so but this doesnt look like
a quality job to start with. You would probably do well jsut to pull
out the tread and replace it with another pine board.

Jimmie

blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

How thick is the tread, and how steady are your hands? Or are you
inventive enough to rig up a jig to drill in from the nose of the tread
to within an inch of the crack, then drill a smaller pilot hole through
that hole, and draw the crack shut with a long screw after packing it
with epoxy? Once epoxy cures, fill the hole with a dowel. I'm thinking a
long sharp spade bit for the big hole, and then the tiniest wire-fishing
bit you can find for the pilot hole. (I've seen some real skinny ones
for alarm system wires, used to go from a window up through a top
plate....) Failing that, a piece of steel rod cut off with bolt cutters
to make a point, would work for a single hole.

Last time this sort of thing was discussed on here, several people
suggested cutting the riser below the split tread, and gaining access to
the bottom of the tread that way. If riser rides in a notch at top or
bottom, you will have to cut, like with a multimaster or clone, leaving
as small a slit as you can. If the riser isn't trapped, temporarily
screw a cleat to the front to have something to pull on, and drill out
the nails, or drive them through the riser with a nail set. Hard to say
without seeing it up close- a lot depends on if the riser is trapped in
the skirting (probably the wrong term) on the sides.

Let us know how it comes out, and how you did it. I'm curious at this point.

--
aem sends...

"hr(bob) " writes:

On Feb 6, 9:42Â*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
Â* Â* Â*http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I would glue the repair plate to the bottom of the cracked tread as
you suggested, and also secure it with screws just long enough to go
into the cracked tread, but not so long as to come thru the tread, and
leave the screws in permanently.
I was assuming that I would not have enough access room to screw in the
screws from below so that instead I would need to secure the backer
board by driving screws through the face of the tread from above. In
order to preserve the cosmetics of the tread, I was hoping that once the
glue set, I could remove the screws and at most have to add a wee bit of
woodfill to the holes left after removing the screws. My thinking was
that even if the underside of the tread is not completely smooth or flat
that epoxy or maybe construction adhesive would hold the boards together
securely after fully curing.

If the tread crack is 18 - 20 inches long in a tread that is probably
30 - 44 inches wide, I would work in as big a piece of wood as
possible and not skimp on the screws. You may want to predrill the
holes in both the repair plate and the stair tread to prevent any
further cracking/ I think regular wood glue should be ok, it dries so
strong that a different part of the wood will crack before the glues
section will crack.
I was assuming that the underside of the tread may be rough so that a
more space-filling glue like epoxy or construction adhesive might be
better.

JIMMIE writes:

On Feb 6, 10:42Â*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
Â* Â* Â*http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I see how they are toenailed in with finishing nails. I dont
understand why unless there is nothing under them to nail to, thats a
scary thought.
Maybe I'm making it too complicated but it seems to me that to remove
the tread, I need to remove the 2 balustrades that are toenailed into
the other end. But then to remove the balustrades, I would need to
remove the bannister. But then to remove the bannister, I would probably
need to disconnect all the other balustrades from the other treads since
they are nailed into the bannister... this seems like a lot of work and
a lot of risk of splitting the balustrades or otherwise affecting the
finish and/or integrity of this old railing system.

I guess I could try to get a blade underneath to cut the nails... but I
worry that between doing that and then trying to remove the tread that I
run the risk of splitting the wood or messing up the finish which would
require more work to repair... So, I thought it might be easier to go
through the underside which hopefully just requires cutting through and
patching plaster..

I dont think the tread would really be that hard to
take out. It looks the the front half of the tread would come on out
with a little persuasion. Then you could glue it back together and
nail it back down. Forgive me for saying so but this doesnt look like
a quality job to start with. You would probably do well jsut to pull
out the tread and replace it with another pine board.

It's not the quality so much as the fact that the stairs are 150 years
old and I doubt I could match the wood that easily - the imperfections
are probably more the patina of age and use across a century and a half
rather than a comment on the initial quality of the install -- heck, how
many stairways installed in new houses today will be around in 150
years... In any case, it's like antiques where refinishing or replacing
with new parts can often decrease the value even though it looks
"nicer."

Also, there is no "front half" of the tread -- it's one 12" tread that is
split along half of its length.

aemeijers writes:
blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

How thick is the tread, and how steady are your hands? Or are you
inventive enough to rig up a jig to drill in from the nose of the
tread to within an inch of the crack, then drill a smaller pilot hole
through that hole, and draw the crack shut with a long screw after
packing it with epoxy? Once epoxy cures, fill the hole with a
dowel. I'm thinking a long sharp spade bit for the big hole, and then
the tiniest wire-fishing bit you can find for the pilot hole. (I've
seen some real skinny ones for alarm system wires, used to go from a
window up through a top plate....) Failing that, a piece of steel rod
cut off with bolt cutters to make a point, would work for a single
hole.

Wow -- that sounds hard (at least for my skill level) -- the tread is
about 3/4" thick and I would need to drill a hole 6" long just to get to
the crack. Also the crack itself appears quite old and even with a screw
drawing it together, I'm not sure I would get good, clean wood-on-wood
adhesion. Given that most of the force is due to weight bearing
differently on the 2 sides of the crack, I would worry that such a
repair wouldn't hold -- or worse that it would cause the wood to split
open around the screws since there would be only around 1/4" of wood
above the screw. Finally, the hole filled with a dowel might still stand
out...

Last time this sort of thing was discussed on here, several people
suggested cutting the riser below the split tread, and gaining access
to the bottom of the tread that way. If riser rides in a notch at top
or bottom, you will have to cut, like with a multimaster or clone,
leaving as small a slit as you can. If the riser isn't trapped,
temporarily screw a cleat to the front to have something to pull on,
and drill out the nails, or drive them through the riser with a nail
set. Hard to say without seeing it up close- a lot depends on if the
riser is trapped in the skirting (probably the wrong term) on the
sides.

I can see that as an approach. But wouldn't it be easier for me to
access it from the underside where I would only be opening up plaster
which is much easier (at least for me) to patch cosmetically than having
to cut a riser.

Let us know how it comes out, and how you did it. I'm curious at this point.

Will definitly do that!!! Thanks again for your input!!!!

On Feb 7, 12:08*am, blueman wrote:
JIMMIE writes:
On Feb 6, 10:42*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
* * *http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I see how they are toenailed in with finishing nails. I dont
understand why unless there is nothing under them to nail to, thats a
scary thought.

Maybe I'm making it too complicated but it seems to me that to remove
the tread, I need to remove the 2 balustrades that are toenailed into
the other end. But then to remove the balustrades, I would need to
remove the bannister. But then to remove the bannister, I would probably
need to disconnect all the other balustrades from the other treads since
they are nailed into the bannister... this seems like a lot of work and
a lot of risk of splitting the balustrades or otherwise affecting the
finish and/or integrity of this old railing system.

I guess I could try to get a blade underneath to cut the nails... but I
worry that between doing that and then trying to remove the tread that I
run the risk of splitting the wood or messing up the finish which would
require more work to repair... So, I thought it might be easier to go
through the underside which hopefully just requires cutting through and
patching plaster..

I dont think the tread would really be that hard to
take out. It looks the the front half of the tread would come on out
with a little persuasion. Then you could glue it back together and
nail it back down. Forgive me for saying so but this doesnt look like
a quality job to start with. You would probably do well jsut to pull
out the tread and replace it with another pine board.

It's not the quality so much as the fact that the stairs are 150 years
old and I doubt I could match the wood that easily - the imperfections
are probably more the patina of age and use across a century and a half
rather than a comment on the initial quality of the install -- heck, how
many stairways installed in new houses today will be around in 150
years... *In any case, it's like antiques where refinishing or replacing
with new parts can often decrease the value even though it looks
"nicer."

Also, there is no "front half" of the tread -- it's one 12" tread that is
split along half of its length.

Sorry but it looks like you can see a lot of finishing nails in the
wood already, maybe Im mistaken but it didnt look like 150 year old
carpentry to me. I meant glue the front half as a result of the split.


Jimmie.

blueman wrote:
"hr(bob) " writes:

On Feb 6, 9:42 pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
longitudinal crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus
seems to be that these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well
supported and gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the
absence of such support may be the proximate cause of the crack.
The crack has probably been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old
wood, I would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the
underside of the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by
cutting through the plaster and lathe on the underside of the
stairway. My idea would be to expose enough area so that I could
slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small
gauge screws through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the
tread and support board together. Alternatively, I could try to
expose more of the stair underside at the risk of creating more
mess and a bigger plaster repair job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get
advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice
or pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I would glue the repair plate to the bottom of the cracked tread as
you suggested, and also secure it with screws just long enough to go
into the cracked tread, but not so long as to come thru the tread,
and leave the screws in permanently.
I was assuming that I would not have enough access room to screw in
the screws from below so that instead I would need to secure the
backer board by driving screws through the face of the tread from
above. In order to preserve the cosmetics of the tread, I was hoping
that once the glue set, I could remove the screws and at most have to
add a wee bit of woodfill to the holes left after removing the
screws. My thinking was that even if the underside of the tread is
not completely smooth or flat that epoxy or maybe construction
adhesive would hold the boards together securely after fully curing.

If the tread crack is 18 - 20 inches long in a tread that is
probably 30 - 44 inches wide, I would work in as big a piece of wood
as possible and not skimp on the screws. You may want to predrill
the holes in both the repair plate and the stair tread to prevent any
further cracking/ I think regular wood glue should be ok, it dries so
strong that a different part of the wood will crack before the glues
section will crack.
I was assuming that the underside of the tread may be rough so that a
more space-filling glue like epoxy or construction adhesive might be
better.

If you can get underneath to afix the sister tread, you can put screws in
place. Screws alone are perhaps 30% effective. Glue alone is perhaps 30%
effective. The two together are better than the sum of the parts. You can't
use too much glue nor too many screws.

As long as you're under there, consider reinforcing as many other steps as
you can reach. Someday some 300# fellow is going to walk up these stairs
carrying a 150# flat-screen TV...

I have a hunch that when you open it up from underneath you will be able to
see what your options are in terms of fixing the crack and supporting the
tread. For example, you may find that you can add a supporting strip on one
end and screw that into the stringer on the side.

You mentioned that there is wood lath and plaster. I assume that the wood
laths will run across, from stringer to stringer, parallel to the tread.
So, you should be able to cut out a whole section all the way across, and
that should be easier to patch in one piece with sheetrock rather than
trying to cut a small hole and patch that. I usually use a handheld
sheetrock saw to cut the plaster along a line in between two pieces of lath.
Then I knock out the plaster in the section of plaster that I cut out and
then take out the underlying laths that go all the way across. That avoids
cross-cutting any of the laths which helps prevent vibrating the laths and
causing unwanted plaster to come loose around the outside of the
hole/opening that is being cut out.

I have also used Gorilla glue from underneath to glue and seal cracks and
the joints where the treads meet the stringers and risers, etc. I like it
because it expands and fills the area and seems to stay just slightly
flexible rather than brittle like regular wood glue.

"blueman" wrote in message
...
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge
screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

blueman wrote:

One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
Personally, I'd clean out the crack with a coping saw blade- then
epoxy it.

Clean well. Use wood *epoxy*, not fiberglass. Mix it thick so you
need to force it into the crack.

If you can get underneath, all the better. Put some tape over the
crack so you don't lose your epoxy. Otherwise plan on doing it in 2-3
layers.

Epoxy will flex with the tread & will be stronger than the wood. A
piece underneath is just asking for more trouble down the road.

IMO- if you add a piece underneath - don't glue or screw it. It
will not expand and contract at the same rate as the tread, so you'll
likely end up with a larger crack, or a warped board. . . or it will
just tear the glue joint apart.

Just install it as if it was a shelf with the tread sitting on top of
it. Screw cleats into the stringers and riser. I'd only fasten
to the stringer treads.

Without glue you might end up with a squeaky tread. That's not
necessarily a bad thing.

Jim

"blueman" wrote in message
...
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

I see there is a wall on the left side, would it be any easier to open
the wall then to open the alcove underneath the stairway ?
Mike

blueman wrote the following:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the bottom
of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If you
can get to it, a piece of one by ? nailed or screwed to the stair side
under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't have to nail or
screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a wide piece of one by
?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have more room to nail or screw
the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't going
to move in any direction except down.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

JIMMIE writes:

On Feb 7, 12:08Â*am, blueman wrote:
JIMMIE writes:
On Feb 6, 10:42Â*pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
Â* Â* Â*http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I see how they are toenailed in with finishing nails. I dont
understand why unless there is nothing under them to nail to, thats a
scary thought.

Maybe I'm making it too complicated but it seems to me that to remove
the tread, I need to remove the 2 balustrades that are toenailed into
the other end. But then to remove the balustrades, I would need to
remove the bannister. But then to remove the bannister, I would probably
need to disconnect all the other balustrades from the other treads since
they are nailed into the bannister... this seems like a lot of work and
a lot of risk of splitting the balustrades or otherwise affecting the
finish and/or integrity of this old railing system.

I guess I could try to get a blade underneath to cut the nails... but I
worry that between doing that and then trying to remove the tread that I
run the risk of splitting the wood or messing up the finish which would
require more work to repair... So, I thought it might be easier to go
through the underside which hopefully just requires cutting through and
patching plaster..

I dont think the tread would really be that hard to
take out. It looks the the front half of the tread would come on out
with a little persuasion. Then you could glue it back together and
nail it back down. Forgive me for saying so but this doesnt look like
a quality job to start with. You would probably do well jsut to pull
out the tread and replace it with another pine board.

It's not the quality so much as the fact that the stairs are 150 years
old and I doubt I could match the wood that easily - the imperfections
are probably more the patina of age and use across a century and a half
rather than a comment on the initial quality of the install -- heck, how
many stairways installed in new houses today will be around in 150
years... Â*In any case, it's like antiques where refinishing or replacing
with new parts can often decrease the value even though it looks
"nicer."

Also, there is no "front half" of the tread -- it's one 12" tread that is
split along half of its length.

Sorry but it looks like you can see a lot of finishing nails in the
wood already, maybe Im mistaken but it didnt look like 150 year old
carpentry to me. I meant glue the front half as a result of the split.


No need to apologize -- I'm the one who should be thanking you for the
input!!! Usenet for me is all about getting multiple inputs and trying
to learn a bit from everybody to come to the best sum total
solution. Unless someone is intentionally being a troll or jerk, I can
probably learn something from every post.

In any case, any finishing nails were probably added over the years for
who knows what reasons... but I'm 99% sure that the stairs are original
to the house and that part of the house was built in 1860...

"HeyBub" writes:

blueman wrote:
"hr(bob) " writes:

On Feb 6, 9:42 pm, blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
longitudinal crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus
seems to be that these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well
supported and gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the
absence of such support may be the proximate cause of the crack.
The crack has probably been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old
wood, I would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the
underside of the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by
cutting through the plaster and lathe on the underside of the
stairway. My idea would be to expose enough area so that I could
slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small
gauge screws through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the
tread and support board together. Alternatively, I could try to
expose more of the stair underside at the risk of creating more
mess and a bigger plaster repair job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get
advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice
or pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

I would glue the repair plate to the bottom of the cracked tread as
you suggested, and also secure it with screws just long enough to go
into the cracked tread, but not so long as to come thru the tread,
and leave the screws in permanently.
I was assuming that I would not have enough access room to screw in
the screws from below so that instead I would need to secure the
backer board by driving screws through the face of the tread from
above. In order to preserve the cosmetics of the tread, I was hoping
that once the glue set, I could remove the screws and at most have to
add a wee bit of woodfill to the holes left after removing the
screws. My thinking was that even if the underside of the tread is
not completely smooth or flat that epoxy or maybe construction
adhesive would hold the boards together securely after fully curing.

If the tread crack is 18 - 20 inches long in a tread that is
probably 30 - 44 inches wide, I would work in as big a piece of wood
as possible and not skimp on the screws. You may want to predrill
the holes in both the repair plate and the stair tread to prevent any
further cracking/ I think regular wood glue should be ok, it dries so
strong that a different part of the wood will crack before the glues
section will crack.
I was assuming that the underside of the tread may be rough so that a
more space-filling glue like epoxy or construction adhesive might be
better.

If you can get underneath to afix the sister tread, you can put screws in
place. Screws alone are perhaps 30% effective. Glue alone is perhaps 30%
effective. The two together are better than the sum of the parts. You can't
use too much glue nor too many screws.

As long as you're under there, consider reinforcing as many other steps as
you can reach. Someday some 300# fellow is going to walk up these stairs
carrying a 150# flat-screen TV...

Excellent (but scarey to think about) suggestion. On the other hand
since the understand of the stairway has a "curved" contour, I probably
will try not to rip out any more plaster than I absolutely have to which
means I at most will likely have access to the step above and below the
one in question...

"amdx" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

I see there is a wall on the left side, would it be any easier to open
the wall then to open the alcove underneath the stairway ?

Very interesting and clever thought, but wouldn't the stringer be in the
way? And to get around it, that would probably require me to pull out
an even bigger section of the wall on the other side.

Also, the other side is our living room while the underside of the
stairs is in the front hall but rarely if ever seen -- also the plaster
on the underside of the stairs is hand contoured to follow the (uneven)
rise and twist of the stairs -- so that any imperfections in my patch
job will likely be less noticeable than they would be on the "smooth"
wall of the living room.

willshak writes:

blueman wrote the following:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the
bottom of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If you
can get to it, a piece of one by ? nailed or screwed to the stair
side under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't have to
nail or screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a wide piece
of one by ?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have more room to
nail or screw the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't
going to move in any direction except down.

Excellent idea.
Maybe I will just sister a couple of 2xX pieces onto the stringers
adjacent to the crack -- this should certainly provide a lot of vertical
support which as you correctly surmise is the only real direction of
force.

Alternatively, I could place a board underneath the tread but rather
than gluing/screwing it to the tread, I could rest it on cleats attached
to the stringers (I think this is similar to another poster's)
suggestion.

In any case, I imagine the exact flavor of my solution will depend on
what I find when I expose the underside of the stair. But I didn't want
to make a mess until I received some reassurance that I was at least
heading in the right direction... I will keep the group posted on what I
find and what amalgam of solutions I end up implementing.

Thanks,
Jeff

"Jay-T" writes:
I have a hunch that when you open it up from underneath you will be
able to see what your options are in terms of fixing the crack and
supporting the tread. For example, you may find that you can add a
supporting strip on one end and screw that into the stringer on the
side.
Very wise advice...


You mentioned that there is wood lath and plaster. I assume that the
wood laths will run across, from stringer to stringer, parallel to the
tread. So, you should be able to cut out a whole section all the way
across, and that should be easier to patch in one piece with sheetrock
rather than trying to cut a small hole and patch that. I usually use
a handheld sheetrock saw to cut the plaster along a line in between
two pieces of lath. Then I knock out the plaster in the section of
plaster that I cut out and then take out the underlying laths that go
all the way across. That avoids cross-cutting any of the laths which
helps prevent vibrating the laths and causing unwanted plaster to come
loose around the outside of the hole/opening that is being cut out.

Thanks for the suggestions -- patching will probably be a little more
difficult than just sheetrock since the bottom of the stairs are
contoured rather than flat -- so probably I will need a combination of
sheetrock base and plaster/setting-joint compound fill.

I have also used Gorilla glue from underneath to glue and seal cracks
and the joints where the treads meet the stringers and risers, etc. I
like it because it expands and fills the area and seems to stay just
slightly flexible rather than brittle like regular wood glue.


Personally, I have been using more high quality (West Systems) wood
epoxy and less Gorilla glue since in my experience, I have found that:
- Polyurethane glue makes a mess with all the foaming which requires
careful cleanup/scraping
- My understanding is that the filling portion of polyurethane glue is
mostly dried "foam" that is not nearly as strong as epoxy which when
used with the right filler can be a super-strong structural filler
- Finally, clamping is less critical with epoxy since you don't have to
counteract the expansive force of polyurethan.

Jim Elbrecht writes:

blueman wrote:

One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
Personally, I'd clean out the crack with a coping saw blade- then
epoxy it.
I have been debating between cleaning it out and between leaving it
as-is as a mark of "character" -- my concern is that if I clean it all
out and can't bring the two sides back together tightly, then the epoxy
fill may look less authentic and more like a hack than just leaving the
crack alone...

Clean well. Use wood *epoxy*, not fiberglass. Mix it thick so you
need to force it into the crack.

Definitely - I have become a real fan of the West System... it is so
much better and more versatile than the store bought stuff in the
syringes and tubes.

If you can get underneath, all the better. Put some tape over the
crack so you don't lose your epoxy. Otherwise plan on doing it in 2-3
layers.

Epoxy will flex with the tread & will be stronger than the wood. A
piece underneath is just asking for more trouble down the road.

IMO- if you add a piece underneath - don't glue or screw it. It
will not expand and contract at the same rate as the tread, so you'll
likely end up with a larger crack, or a warped board. . . or it will
just tear the glue joint apart.

Just install it as if it was a shelf with the tread sitting on top of
it. Screw cleats into the stringers and riser. I'd only fasten
to the stringer treads.

I like that idea -- assuming I can get good access which I won't know
until I get under there...


Without glue you might end up with a squeaky tread. That's not
necessarily a bad thing.

I could always put a layer of Resin paper between the tread and the
support which would be analogous to the way Resin paper has been
traditionally used between the underlayment and the overlying T&T
strips.

blueman wrote:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Without a doubt fixing it from the bottom is your best bet. And yes the
reason it cracked is most likely because it had no support, which I hope
is just this tread and not all of them! Like others said, glue and
screw a piece of wood under it. And while down there attach something
to the side that will give it support.

My first idea was to drill a long hole and put in a couple long screws,
but with no support below, you are just asking for more trouble. If you
want to push instead of pull the crack together until the glue dries,
you just measure from the front of the split tread to the wall at the
bottom of the steps and make a T with a 2x4 with the short end on the
wall and the long end pushing on the stair tread. First I'd try to get
the little specks of paint an whatnot out of the crack. Add shims to
make it fit tight. Do this before the glue and screw underneath.

Although the more I look at the photo, the more it looks like the tread
doesn't go into the sides. It looks like only some plaster/spackling
and finishing nails hold it down. I'd try removing plaster from under a
lower tread to see how far the tread goes into the sides of the
stringer, if at all. If it comes out that way it would save having the
hole in the plaster down below.

blueman wrote the following:
willshak writes:


blueman wrote the following:

One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks


Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the
bottom of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If you
can get to it, a piece of one by ? nailed or screwed to the stair
side under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't have to
nail or screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a wide piece
of one by ?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have more room to
nail or screw the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't
going to move in any direction except down.


Excellent idea.
Maybe I will just sister a couple of 2xX pieces onto the stringers
adjacent to the crack -- this should certainly provide a lot of vertical
support which as you correctly surmise is the only real direction of
force.

Alternatively, I could place a board underneath the tread but rather
than gluing/screwing it to the tread, I could rest it on cleats attached
to the stringers (I think this is similar to another poster's)
suggestion.

In any case, I imagine the exact flavor of my solution will depend on
what I find when I expose the underside of the stair. But I didn't want
to make a mess until I received some reassurance that I was at least
heading in the right direction... I will keep the group posted on what I
find and what amalgam of solutions I end up implementing.

Thanks,
Jeff

I had a brain fart and couldn't remember the word for the "side'.
Stringer it is.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
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On Feb 7, 12:42*pm, blueman wrote:
willshak writes:
blueman wrote the following:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
* * *http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the
bottom of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If you
can get to it, a piece of *one by ? nailed or screwed to the stair
side under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't have to
nail or screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a wide piece
of one by ?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have more room to
nail or screw the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't
going to move in any direction except down.

Excellent idea.
Maybe I will just sister a couple of 2xX pieces onto the stringers
adjacent to the crack -- this should certainly provide a lot of vertical
support which as you correctly surmise is the only real direction of
force.

Alternatively, I could place a board underneath the tread but rather
than gluing/screwing it to the tread, I could rest it on cleats attached
to the stringers (I think this is similar to another poster's)
suggestion.

In any case, I imagine the exact flavor of my solution will depend on
what I find when I expose the underside of the stair. But I didn't want
to make a mess until I received some reassurance that I was at least
heading in the right direction... I will keep the group posted on what I
find and what amalgam of solutions I end up implementing.

Thanks,
Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you can access the stringers, sistering a 1x or 2x to the stringer
to support the board under the tread is a good idea.

On Feb 7, 6:59�pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Feb 7, 12:42�pm, blueman wrote:





willshak writes:
blueman wrote the following:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
� � �http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the
bottom of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If you
can get to it, a piece of �one by ? nailed or screwed to the stair
side under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't have to
nail or screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a wide piece
of one by ?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have more room to
nail or screw the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't
going to move in any direction except down.

Excellent idea.
Maybe I will just sister a couple of 2xX pieces onto the stringers
adjacent to the crack -- this should certainly provide a lot of vertical
support which as you correctly surmise is the only real direction of
force.

Alternatively, I could place a board underneath the tread but rather
than gluing/screwing it to the tread, I could rest it on cleats attached
to the stringers (I think this is similar to another poster's)
suggestion.

In any case, I imagine the exact flavor of my solution will depend on
what I find when I expose the underside of the stair. But I didn't want
to make a mess until I received some reassurance that I was at least
heading in the right direction... I will keep the group posted on what I
find and what amalgam of solutions I end up implementing.

Thanks,
Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you can access the stringers, sistering a 1x or 2x to the stringer
to support �the board under the tread is a good idea.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Gutting a friends home after a fire, I pulled down the cieling over
the steps, figuring the cavatity could be insulated. The attic above
wasnt a heated space so insulation would be a plus

Geez was I surprised such a small cavity. Little room for insulation

If OP finds this consider installing a steel suuport of some type
since it will take up very little space

I have fond memories of that job, found hacked wiring, bad leaky
plumbing, rotted joists and a long list of wierd. Added to my tool
collection with tools that must of been dropped into wall cavaties
over the years..... including a ratchet wrench

the wierdest was two lengths of romex tied in a knot running from
basement to attic. they went deluxe and went all out with wire nuts

The property owner finally admitted defeat and had house completely
rewired. Its amazing bad wiring hadnt burned it to the ground

cat had knocked over light causing fire....

blueman wrote:
willshak writes:

blueman wrote the following:
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
longitudinal crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus
seems to be that these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well
supported and gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the
absence of such support may be the proximate cause of the crack.
The crack has probably been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old
wood, I would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the
underside of the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by
cutting through the plaster and lathe on the underside of the
stairway. My idea would be to expose enough area so that I could
slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small
gauge screws through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the
tread and support board together. Alternatively, I could try to
expose more of the stair underside at the risk of creating more
mess and a bigger plaster repair job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get
advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice
or pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

Like you surmised and others have agreed, you need to get to the
bottom of the tread.
All you really have to do is to supply a support for the tread. If
you can get to it, a piece of one by ? nailed or screwed to the
stair side under the cracked side should be sufficient. You don't
have to nail or screw the support close to the tread bottom. Use a
wide piece of one by ?, i.e. 1 x 4, or 1 by 6 so that you can have
more room to nail or screw the piece to the side.
It is not necessary to put screws into the tread. The tread isn't
going to move in any direction except down.

Excellent idea.
Maybe I will just sister a couple of 2xX pieces onto the stringers
adjacent to the crack -- this should certainly provide a lot of
vertical support which as you correctly surmise is the only real
direction of force.

Alternatively, I could place a board underneath the tread but rather
than gluing/screwing it to the tread, I could rest it on cleats
attached to the stringers (I think this is similar to another
poster's) suggestion.

In any case, I imagine the exact flavor of my solution will depend on
what I find when I expose the underside of the stair. But I didn't
want to make a mess until I received some reassurance that I was at
least heading in the right direction... I will keep the group posted
on what I find and what amalgam of solutions I end up implementing

Here's a though:

Rip out all the plaster and so forth. Fix the stairs. Then box the whole
thing in and install a 5/8ths bath.

Can't fit it in?

Heh!

Did you know you can get lavatories from scrapped commercial airliners?
They'll fit almost anywhere. I think the little sign that says "Occupied" is
cute, along with the interior "Fasten seat belt" annunciator.

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"amdx" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

I see there is a wall on the left side, would it be any easier to open
the wall then to open the alcove underneath the stairway ?

Very interesting and clever thought, but wouldn't the stringer be in the
way? And to get around it, that would probably require me to pull out
an even bigger section of the wall on the other side.

Also, the other side is our living room......

Darn, I was hoping it would be the garage :-)
Mike

"HeyBub" writes:
Here's a though:

Rip out all the plaster and so forth. Fix the stairs. Then box the whole
thing in and install a 5/8ths bath.

Can't fit it in?

Luckily we already have a first floor 1/2 bath that is quite
spacious. So my future plans for under the stairs is more likely to be
some type of closet or other storage or perhaps a small desk.
Still, I am a little hesitant to box it in for anything since it might
make the narrow hall parallel to the stairs seem more
constricting. Probably, will consult an architect on that one...

Thanks for the idea nevertheless...

Heh!

Did you know you can get lavatories from scrapped commercial airliners?
They'll fit almost anywhere. I think the little sign that says "Occupied" is
cute, along with the interior "Fasten seat belt" annunciator.

Somehow I'm not sure ulttra-modern airline lavatory style will fit our
Italianate Mansard home but would definitely be a "conversation piece"

Tony writes:
My first idea was to drill a long hole and put in a couple long
screws, but with no support below, you are just asking for more
trouble. If you want to push instead of pull the crack together until
the glue dries, you just measure from the front of the split tread to
the wall at the bottom of the steps and make a T with a 2x4 with the
short end on the wall and the long end pushing on the stair tread.
Excuse my obtuseness, but I'm having trouble visualizing this...

First I'd try to get the little specks of paint an whatnot out of the
crack. Add shims to make it fit tight. Do this before the glue and
screw underneath.
Good idea.

Although the more I look at the photo, the more it looks like the
tread doesn't go into the sides. It looks like only some
plaster/spackling and finishing nails hold it down. I'd try removing
plaster from under a lower tread to see how far the tread goes into
the sides of the stringer, if at all. If it comes out that way it
would save having the hole in the plaster down below.

I agree that the tread may very well not extend under the baseboard. But
I'm more worried about the other end where the balustrades very
definitely are secured to the tread and I really hesitate to
dissassemble the entire bannister/balustrade system for fear that I
wouldn't be able to get it back together as secure as it is now along
with the risk of breaking/splitting old balustrades...

blueman wrote:

Jim Elbrecht writes:

blueman wrote:
-snip-
Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
Personally, I'd clean out the crack with a coping saw blade- then
epoxy it.
I have been debating between cleaning it out and between leaving it
as-is as a mark of "character" -- my concern is that if I clean it all
out and can't bring the two sides back together tightly, then the epoxy
fill may look less authentic and more like a hack than just leaving the
crack alone...

I think the West system epoxy will fill it with a darker color- but
not look that bad. I wouldn't even try to bring them back
together- you're likely to just end up with 2 pieces if you do.

My guess on what caused the crack-- That piece that cracked is
heartwood- with sapwood on either side. It is the piece that expands
and contracts the most. The nails in the stringer held the front and
back in place & the wood shrunk, opening the crack.

The stairs look just like mine in my 100 yr old house. *If* they
are. . . There are two 5/4 stringers- one on each side of the stairs.
They are nailed to the face of a 5/4x10 that serves as a
baseboard/trim.

Jim

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:42:34 -0500, blueman wrote:

One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.

Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg

I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.

Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.

Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.

So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.

To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.

Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.

Thanks

You will need to decide the best method. Either one will require some
finishing perhaps tedious work. Fit and glue 2x4s to the underside of
the treads and screw in two short 2x4 pieces to the sides to keep the
long 2x4s tightly against the bottom of the tread. Instead of the
2x4s you can use 3/4" stock, whichever is cheaper. Use carpenter's
glue and allow the glue to dry for day or two before putting any
stress on it. A 60-watt light bulb will help the cure rate. The
gluing surfaces should be unfinished wood.