I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional concrete
garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete panels came
out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now secured into the
gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached to the top member of
the frame (having been held up in the interim by the excellent Lidl ceiling
prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into the
frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the frame. It
must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one (or
both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put the whole
thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired and annoyed with
myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I could
drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and then use a
handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a circular saw like a
chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm not desperately keen on
the notion of using a heavy and powerful circular saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,

Bert Coules wrote:
I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional concrete
garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete panels
came out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now secured
into the gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached to the top
member of the frame (having been held up in the interim by the excellent
Lidl ceiling prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into the
frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the frame.
It must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one (or
both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put the
whole thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired and
annoyed with myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I
could drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and
then use a handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a
circular saw like a chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm
not desperately keen on the notion of using a heavy and powerful
circular saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,




Have you got, or can you borrow, a router?

Not hard to run that against a guide and open up the frame a bit.

Depth might be an issue..may need a BIG router with a long bit.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you got, or can you borrow, a router?

That's a brilliant idea. I wouldn't even need that big a cutter: I could
make several side-by-side grooves, slightly overlapping, in the inner face
of the frame and widen the opening that way. And the window isn't as deep
as the timber (timber 100mm, window 60mm) so I needn't cut away the entire
depth. In fact, it would give me a lovely secure ledge to bed the window
onto.

I wonder if my cheapo router is up to the task? I'll find out tomorrow.

Many thanks!

Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Have you got, or can you borrow, a router?

That's a brilliant idea. I wouldn't even need that big a cutter: I
could make several side-by-side grooves, slightly overlapping, in the
inner face of the frame and widen the opening that way. And the window
isn't as deep as the timber (timber 100mm, window 60mm) so I needn't cut
away the entire depth. In fact, it would give me a lovely secure ledge
to bed the window onto.

I wonder if my cheapo router is up to the task? I'll find out tomorrow.

Many thanks!

60mm should be OK

use it like a planer and go full depth and a few mm at a time gradually
moving inwards, If you **** up,. go further and take less off the other
side.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If you **** up, go further and take less
off the other side.

Actually, might it even be better to make the opening a little *too* wide,
so the window frame could be packed out with those plastic spacer bars and
the gap filled with sealant or foam? Is there a danger in making a wooden
frame for a uPVC window the exact width of the frame? Should there be some
small allowance for movement?

Bert Coules wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If you **** up, go further and take less
off the other side.

Actually, might it even be better to make the opening a little *too*
wide, so the window frame could be packed out with those plastic spacer
bars and the gap filled with sealant or foam? Is there a danger in
making a wooden frame for a uPVC window the exact width of the frame?
Should there be some small allowance for movement?




Good point..

On 14/07/2011 21:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional
concrete garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete
panels came out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now
secured into the gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached
to the top member of the frame (having been held up in the interim by
the excellent Lidl ceiling prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into
the frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the
frame. It must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one
(or both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put
the whole thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired
and annoyed with myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I
could drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and
then use a handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a
circular saw like a chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm
not desperately keen on the notion of using a heavy and powerful
circular saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,




Have you got, or can you borrow, a router?

Not hard to run that against a guide and open up the frame a bit.

Depth might be an issue..may need a BIG router with a long bit.

That should work. You'd probably have to use it from inside and outside
to get sufficient depth.

It should also be do-able with a hand-held circular saw - but you'd only
want to cut in an upwards direction, which means doing one side of the
frame from the inside and the other side from the outside. To get
started, you pivot on the front of the baseplate and let the blade sink
in - a bit like using it between floorboards. It probably wouldn't have
enough depth of cut to go right through the frame, so you'd have to
finish off with a hand-saw.

--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:

It should also be do-able with a hand-held circular saw - but you'd only
want to cut in an upwards direction, which means doing one side of the
frame from the inside and the other side from the outside.

I'm not keen on that. I think the router is the way to go. I have a 10mm
cutter, so six or seven parallel cuts should do it, without putting too much
of a strain on the machine.

Thanks for the reply.

Bert Coules wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

It should also be do-able with a hand-held circular saw - but you'd
only want to cut in an upwards direction, which means doing one side
of the frame from the inside and the other side from the outside.

I'm not keen on that. I think the router is the way to go. I have a
10mm cutter, so six or seven parallel cuts should do it, without putting
too much of a strain on the machine.

Thanks for the reply.


exoperiencence suggests many light cuts have less chance of pushing the
thing sideways and gouging out more than you wanted.

However in your case you can nail support bars to fully support it in a
slot..so you can jig it pretty well.

On 14/07/2011 21:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional
concrete garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete
panels came out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now
secured into the gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached
to the top member of the frame (having been held up in the interim by
the excellent Lidl ceiling prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into
the frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the
frame. It must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one
(or both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put
the whole thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired
and annoyed with myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I
could drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and
then use a handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a
circular saw like a chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm
not desperately keen on the notion of using a heavy and powerful
circular saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,




Have you got, or can you borrow, a router?

Not hard to run that against a guide and open up the frame a bit.

Depth might be an issue..may need a BIG router with a long bit.

I have a 16mm dia 1/2" shank bit for making lock rebates that will cut
up to 75mm deep. It is surprising how many other jobs it is also useful for.

Colin Bignell

In article , Bert
Coules writes
Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

Mistake excepted it's looking good.

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I could
drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and then use a
handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a circular saw like a
chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm not desperately keen on
the notion of using a heavy and powerful circular saw vertically, though.

My choice would be a circular saw, 2 half depth cuts, one from either
side. You don't need to get a perfect start in the corner as a sharp
chisel and mallet will make short work of what's left there that.

I'd see a router as a faff, loads more passes and using a long cutter on
a long extension.

No fixings in the way I assume?
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

fred wrote:

My choice would be a circular saw, 2 half depth cuts, one from each side.

That was my first thought, too, but I'm still dubious. Perhaps if I had a
smallish battery circular saw, but I don't relish the idea of using my hefty
mains model not only vertically but also at head level.

I'd see a router as a faff, loads more passes...

I don't mind taking my time about it.

and using a long cutter on a long extension.

I don't quite follow that. I'm not a regular user of the router, but I've
cut a 10mm wide slot about 5mm deep in a length of wood before now, and used
only a normal short-shank cutter. I don't really understand why I would
need anything longer.

No fixings in the way I assume?

One bolt each side, but well sunk into the wood. Easily work-aroundable
(though perhaps not with a circular saw).

Thanks for the thoughts.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:42:00 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

and using a long cutter on a long extension.

I don't quite follow that. I'm not a regular user of the router, but
I've cut a 10mm wide slot about 5mm deep in a length of wood before now,

'cause fred is thinking of using the router on the outside of the
frame not the inside making slots like you are. B-)

TBH if you are happy using the router that is the way I would go and
as you have also said you can leave a rebate for the window to fit
against.

One pass to cut what will be rebate then maybe two more to give
deepth guide for chiseling out the rest of the waste. Big wide chisel
would be good, 1 1/2" or so.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

'cause fred is thinking of using the router on the outside of the
frame not the inside making slots like you are. B-)

As I realised, as soon as I'd posted my reply.

One pass to cut what will be rebate then maybe two more to give
depth guide for chiseling out the rest of the waste. Big wide chisel
would be good, 1 1/2" or so.

I was thinking of using just the router, no chiselling at all. But I'll do
the first cuts and see how I feel.

Many thanks.

In article , Bert
Coules writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:

'cause fred is thinking of using the router on the outside of the
frame not the inside making slots like you are. B-)

As I realised, as soon as I'd posted my reply.

One pass to cut what will be rebate then maybe two more to give
depth guide for chiseling out the rest of the waste. Big wide chisel
would be good, 1 1/2" or so.

I was thinking of using just the router, no chiselling at all. But I'll do
the first cuts and see how I feel.

As Dave pointed out, yes, I had blinkers on and was thinking of using
the router base in the same plane as you would use the circular saw
base. Using it on the inner face of the frame sound eminently sensible.
Maybe add a couple of battens inside and out to make sure the router
base stays stable as you are removing frame material.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Fred,

Sorry, I meant to respond to:

Mistake excepted it's looking good.

Thank you!

On 14/07/2011 21:27, Bert Coules wrote:
I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional concrete
garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete panels
came out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now secured
into the gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached to the top
member of the frame (having been held up in the interim by the excellent
Lidl ceiling prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into the
frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the frame.
It must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one (or
both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put the
whole thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired and
annoyed with myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg .

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I
could drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and
then use a handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a circular
saw like a chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm not
desperately keen on the notion of using a heavy and powerful circular
saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,


Plane 1/4" of each side of the window? If just PCv and no reinforcing
within 1/4" of each side why not?

Fredxx wrote:

Plane 1/4" of each side of the window? If just PCv and no reinforcing
within 1/4" of each side why not?

Thanks for the suggestion. I did consider it, and I suppose I could make an
experimental cut to see if there is anything there but uPVC, but I do wonder
about how well the material would plane. There's also the point I made
above about leaving an expansion/contraction gap round the window: if that
is desirable it would mean cutting back a bit more than 1/4". That would be
doable, but there's more of the frame than the window to play with and it
might be better to lose the surplus from the wood rather than the plastic.

On Jul 15, 12:29 am, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/07/2011 21:27, Bert Coules wrote:



I mentioned in another thread that I'm converting my sectional concrete
garage into a workshop. Today went well: five of the concrete panels
came out (intact) and a timber frame (assembled in situ) is now secured
into the gap. The centre cross-ways rafter has been attached to the top
member of the frame (having been held up in the interim by the excellent
Lidl ceiling prop: a splendid tenner's worth).

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into the
frame.

Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the frame.
It must have grown since I measured it.

I really don't want to have to remove the entire frame, take off one (or
both) of the side verticals, trim it (or them) down and then put the
whole thing back again (but that might just be because I'm tired and
annoyed with myself: I could well feel differently in the morning).

Here's the frame:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...Theframe-1.jpg.

How practical would it be to cut down the frame in situ? I suppose I
could drill a series of small holes, chisel them out to form a gap and
then use a handsaw. Or... I've never done it, but can you use a circular
saw like a chop saw, to start a cut away from a corner? I'm not
desperately keen on the notion of using a heavy and powerful circular
saw vertically, though.

Any thoughts will be very welcome!

Many thanks,

Plane 1/4" of each side of the window? If just PCv and no reinforcing
within 1/4" of each side why not?

aye +1
done that in the past - that one had moulded "ribs" that were almost
designed to be powerplaned off...

Jim K

Jim K wrote:

Plane 1/4" of each side of the window?

done that in the past - that one had moulded "ribs" that were almost
designed to be powerplaned off...

My window has those ribs. I don't have a powerplane, though, and I doubt if
I could do as neat a job with a saw. We'll see, though: it's good to have a
choice of methods. Many thanks.

Jim, did you fit your planed-off window hard up against a frame, or did you
space it away slightly and fill the gap with foam or sealant?

Bert

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:53:18 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

Jim, did you fit your planed-off window hard up against a frame, or did
you space it away slightly and fill the gap with foam or sealant?

I'd be a bit wary of taking the ribs off a plastic window. Partly
from reducing the strength, a flat sheet of plastic is a lot more
flexable than one with ribs along one face. And partly from the water
tightness aspect, a flat surface will allow rain to be easily blown
through an imperfect seal (which it will become eventually). The ribs
will make it a more convolouted path thus slowing the air flow down.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

I'd be a bit wary of taking the ribs off a plastic window...

Good points, Dave, thanks. It looks as though routing out the frame is the
way to go.

On 14/07/2011 21:27, Bert Coules wrote:

The final task for today was to fit the secondhand uPVC window into the
frame.
Unfortunately, the window is 1/2" wider than the aperture in the frame.
It must have grown since I measured it.
Any thoughts will be very welcome!


Did it work, the idea using the router?

DDS wrote:

Did it work, the idea using the router?

It did, though it wasn't as neat a job as I'd have liked: I'd forgotten that
my seldom-used router needs considerable pressure to plunge the bit home (is
that normal, by the way?) and so using it against a vertical surface wasn't
the easiest thing in the world, especially at and just above head height.
But the occasional uneveness of depth and other inaccuracies don't affect
the job and will all be hidden, so I'm not too annoyed.

I wanted to get the window in and sealed by yesterday but it didn't happen;
and today I've got torrential and seemingly continuous rain so I'm hoping
that my rather Heath Robinsonish weatherproofing of the large gap where the
garage wall used to be will hold up against the elements.

Many thanks to everyone who contributed thoughts and ideas. Much
appreciated.