Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

deano wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

Just seen the Easy Raker from Mortar Sorta.
Looks useful. Anyone used one?
--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

On 11/06/2011 13:21, Dean Heighington wrote:
wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

Just seen the Easy Raker from Mortar Sorta.
Looks useful. Anyone used one?

The soft red bricks on the front of my house are very soft indeed and,
because they're a uniform texture and colour, it looks bad if you lose
the edge.
I used a paint scraper to loosen the old mortar, mainly because it's a
thin edge that you can tap sideways through the mortar. Certainly to
start with I'd avoid the typical pointing chisel, which was slightly too
fat for my mortar gaps

On Jun 11, 9:30*am, deano wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that *because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

Removing all mortar is not recommended, such bricks are often very
soft and readily damaged by removing hard mortar. Just remove what
comes out easily with a hand tool. Even a screwdriver is aggressive
enough, no special tool is needed. You can make it all match pretty
much by putting a wafer thin layer of the new mortar over any existing
hard mortar.

Avoid ribbon style pointing, it increases water ingress which isnt a
great idea with old bricks and wall types. Flush pointing was the
standard at the time, weatherstruck is also used nowadays.

Lime mortar is best (3:1), it avoids brick damage and handles slight
movement well . But lime is very slow to set. People have sometimes
added 5% cement to get a little initial set. 1:1:6 is often used on
these walls, but its a hard cement mortar, and damage in the future
can result. Certainly avoid harder cement mixes.

With existing minor damage, don't get tempted to fill the gaps up with
mortar. If the rain will run off, its better to leave it. Mortar
filled brick damage is ugly, brick damage less so.


NT

Tabby wrote:

Removing all mortar is not recommended, such bricks are often very
soft and readily damaged by removing hard mortar. Just remove what
comes out easily with a hand tool. Even a screwdriver is aggressive
enough, no special tool is needed.

Yeah, I know its gonna be some 'suck it and see work' and I want to make
all efforts to avoid brick damage- they r quite worn already, but I also
don't want to spend a month of Sundays at it! I'm guessing the stuff at the
top will come out easily but there's a host of patching to deal with lower
down- I think a grinder to centre cut the pointing here, is gonna be
required!

The paint scraper is another good tool for me to consider as I have quite
an array of these, as is a screwdriver and shave hook... Hacksaw blade?

You can make it all match pretty
much by putting a wafer thin layer of the new mortar over any existing
hard mortar.

Of course... Hadn't thought of that, theres prolly room due to weathering
to allow this.

Avoid ribbon style pointing, it increases water ingress which isnt a
great idea with old bricks and wall types.

agreed, this looked like an attempt to square-up the worn bricks where it
was done in that area.

Flush pointing was the
standard at the time, weatherstruck is also used nowadays.


Flush is what's used on surrounding houses
(that haven't also been redone) but might look grubby when it fills the
worn brick edges, as it will 'spread' so I was considering weatherstruck to
define new lines, but this will obviously overpower the bricks- maybe a
test patch and show the owner is in order here?!

Lime mortar is best (3:1), it avoids brick damage and handles slight
movement well . But lime is very slow to set. People have sometimes
added 5% cement to get a little initial set. 1:1:6 is often used on
these walls, but its a hard cement mortar, and damage in the future
can result. Certainly avoid harder cement mixes.


So, use a little dust or not? I've read 1:1:6 a couple times in my
research. Plasticiser in the mix not the gauging water too?

With existing minor damage, don't get tempted to fill the gaps up with
mortar. If the rain will run off, its better to leave it. Mortar
filled brick damage is ugly, brick damage less so.

Do you mean likeIsaid above with the flush pointing 'spreading'? It would
suggest a recessed joint to help define the brick edge but that comes with
it's own problems of water ingress doesn't it!

Hmmnn, what-to-do...

Would still like opinions on this bit of kit, which I'd stretch to if it
proved a timesaver whilst avoiding brick damage....


http://www.google.co.uk/m/url?client...6MGrrKEZc43FOQ

Deano
--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

deano wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post. Did you
mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

On 11/06/11 15:05, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:30 am, wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

Removing all mortar is not recommended, such bricks are often very
soft and readily damaged by removing hard mortar. Just remove what
comes out easily with a hand tool. Even a screwdriver is aggressive
enough, no special tool is needed. You can make it all match pretty
much by putting a wafer thin layer of the new mortar over any existing
hard mortar.

Avoid ribbon style pointing, it increases water ingress which isnt a
great idea with old bricks and wall types. Flush pointing was the
standard at the time, weatherstruck is also used nowadays.

Lime mortar is best (3:1), it avoids brick damage and handles slight
movement well . But lime is very slow to set. People have sometimes
added 5% cement to get a little initial set. 1:1:6 is often used on
these walls, but its a hard cement mortar, and damage in the future
can result. Certainly avoid harder cement mixes.

With existing minor damage, don't get tempted to fill the gaps up with
mortar. If the rain will run off, its better to leave it. Mortar
filled brick damage is ugly, brick damage less so.


NT
If all the existing mortar is lime then you may be able to scrape it all
out,
if it's portland then it will be harder than the bricks
and you would damage the bricks trying to remove it.

[g]

deano wrote:
Right- I am embarking on a repointing job and want to do it PROPERLY
BUT REALISTICALLY!

From research done so far I am confused as hell.

The house is circa 1900's terrace-end in North London. Soft red brick
front facade which has recently been soda blasted to clean it up. Some
pointing has been dislodged and there is evidence of various repair
attempts over the years, mainly to lower parts (below bay window),
ranging from hard cement based pointing to bay front and at the side
of the bay a brick coloured stopper + thin ribbon line (I think) which
seems to be an abandoned sample!

Owner wants complete removal and repointing so that everything
matches.

My concerns are removing the existing without further damage to the
worn brick edges (arrises?) and what mix to repoint with (lime/cement/
both), as well as joint profile selection.

As mentioned, I will take care to do a 'decent' job, but this is not a
Grand Design's project, with unlimited time and budget.

I've done some extensive reading so far and am still unsure, so I'm
after a general consensus from some of you who have travelled a
similar path

I'm aware this could rekindle a previous debate and hope to avoid
that because whilst the 'jury is still out' these jobs will keep
coming up

TIA
deano

If you rake it out by hand, it will take you about 4 days.
Or a day and half by small angle grinder.
Don't worry about damaging the bricks, they are usually unnoticed after
repointing.
I'd use a 3:1 sand cement mix, I've used this mix for pointing for the past
20 yrs and haven't had any problems at all.
Use a decent ladder - one which is easy on the soles of the feet, IE not one
with square rungs, get one with a flat rung if possible otherwise you'll
have sore feet and legs after 2 days.
Use goggles when you're using the grinder and watch out for various wires, I
usually unclip them and add the cost of a few boxes of cable clips to the
price - it makes it far easier for grinding out and also re-pointing.

I always wash the house down with a hosepipe after grinding, including all
the brickwork, get all the dust out of the joints and off the brick faces
especially.
Start at the top and work downwards, and before you point anything, wet it
first, a garden watering can is a must, If you've never pointed before,
expect it to take you an hour per square metre.

A load of grit etc accumulates in guttering and gulleys, don't forget to
clean these out at the end of the job.

Steve Firth wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

"Phil L" wrote:

If you rake it out by hand, it will take you about 4 days.
Or a day and half by small angle grinder.
Don't worry about damaging the bricks, they are usually unnoticed after
repointing.
I'd use a 3:1 sand cement mix, I've used this mix for pointing for the past
20 yrs and haven't had any problems at all.
Use a decent ladder - one which is easy on the soles of the feet, IE not one
with square rungs, get one with a flat rung if possible otherwise you'll
have sore feet and legs after 2 days.
Use goggles when you're using the grinder and watch out for various wires, I
usually unclip them and add the cost of a few boxes of cable clips to the
price - it makes it far easier for grinding out and also re-pointing.

I always wash the house down with a hosepipe after grinding, including all
the brickwork, get all the dust out of the joints and off the brick faces
especially.
Start at the top and work downwards, and before you point anything, wet it
first, a garden watering can is a must, If you've never pointed before,
expect it to take you an hour per square metre.

A load of grit etc accumulates in guttering and gulleys, don't forget to
clean these out at the end of the job.

Cheers for the input Phil, I'll be working off of a couple of towers so
limited use of the ladder but no doubt there'll be some need.
I respect your 20 years experience but am still unsure of using cement with
no lime... If the wall micro-moves won't the brick faces pop? This is
where there seems to be so much uncertainty about the subject.
I think I'm gonna approach or with a centre score using a diamond Raker in
the grinder and chip out the rest by hand for where it's stubborn.

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

Dean Heighington wrote:

Cheers for the input Phil, I'll be working off of a couple of towers
so limited use of the ladder but no doubt there'll be some need.
I respect your 20 years experience but am still unsure of using
cement with no lime... If the wall micro-moves won't the brick faces
pop? This is where there seems to be so much uncertainty about the
subject.

All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!
Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.


I think I'm gonna approach or with a centre score using a diamond
Raker in the grinder and chip out the rest by hand for where it's
stubborn.

It needs to be half an inch deep minimum (12.5mm)

"Phil L" wrote:

All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!
Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.

Can I have a written guarantee? ;-)

It needs to be half an inch deep minimum (12.5mm)

Yes, with a nice flat back... Usually twice the width of the joint is
what's in my head so there abouts eh?

I've done several patch works, but never a complete repoint so want to get
it right. And, as you have probably guessed from my posts- there is so much
contradicting data and advice from all points of the compass


--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

Dean Heighington wrote:
"Phil L" wrote:

All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!
Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.

Can I have a written guarantee? ;-)

No but you can give one, safe in the knowledge that you won't get called
back, trust me.


It needs to be half an inch deep minimum (12.5mm)

Yes, with a nice flat back... Usually twice the width of the joint is
what's in my head so there abouts eh?

There's no set rule, I';ve seen brick joints an inch wide, they still get
half an inch of pointing, which is more than enough.


I've done several patch works, but never a complete repoint so want
to get it right. And, as you have probably guessed from my posts-
there is so much contradicting data and advice from all points of the
compass

Most of the advice about pointing seems to be for patch pointing -
re-pointing an entire elevation or a full house is a completely different
kettle of fish, spending too long on a square metre is unadvisable, whereas
with patch pointing, you've usually got all day to do a metre or two, and
the end result is immediately noticable (because it's new) as are any
imperfections / scratches / damage etc - with a full repoint, it's all new,
so nothing is noticable.

On this subject, measure your mixes and make each one exactly the same, use
measures like small tubs, plantpots etc and shake each mix in a bag to get
any lumps of sand out, don't mix enough to last all day because it's usually
useless after a few hours, about 5kgs will last you a few hours and do a
couple of metres and is easily mixed (dry) in a bag.

If you repoint in direct sunlight, the mortar often dries before it has set,
and the following day it will be powdery, it will remain like this until it
has enough moisture to allow the cement to cure, this often means wetting it
down for a few days after, which will only take a few minutes with a
hosepipe on spray, don't jet the water at it or it will wash out.

"Phil L" wrote:

Don't worry about damaging the bricks, they are usually unnoticed after
repointing.

This isnt true.


Use goggles when you're using the grinde

Indirect vent goggles. Too many people get injured using direct vent
ones.


All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!

Modern houses dont move enough to cause noticeable external cracking.
Old 1900 houses do, due to shallow foundations. Lime microcracks when
movemnt happens, leaving the bricks unharmed and the wall intact, then
it tends to self heal across the microcracks. Cement mortars result in
split bricks in a line, ie much greater damage and expense.


Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.

There's no guarantee whether strong cement mortar will or wont be ok
in 20 years. Many times it is. It certainly isnt when it eventually
decays and rips the edges of the bricks off though, that takes more
than 20yrs. 3:1 is a no-no for these properties, SPAB warns against
its use.


don't mix enough to last all day because it's usually
useless after a few hours

Cement mortar mix should be discarded if not used in 40 minutes. A
lime mortar batch can be used for days.


NT

On Jun 11, 4:43*pm, Dean Heighington
wrote:
Tabby wrote:
Removing all mortar is not recommended, such bricks are often very
soft and readily damaged by removing hard mortar. Just remove what
comes out easily with a hand tool. Even a screwdriver is aggressive
enough, no special tool is needed.

Yeah, I know its gonna be some 'suck it and see work' and I want to make
all efforts to avoid brick damage- they r quite worn already, but I also
don't want to spend a month of Sundays at it! I'm guessing the stuff at the

why would you spend ages on it? Soft mortar comes out easily, hard is
just left.


top will come out easily but there's a host of patching to deal with lower
down- I think a grinder to centre cut the pointing here, is gonna be
required!

I cant see why. Its certainly not advised. Its only making more work
for yourself and damaging the wall.


The paint scraper is another good tool for me to consider as I have quite
an array of these

too big

, as is a screwdriver
ok

and shave hook
too big

... Hacksaw blade?

what for? It sounds like youre far overestimating the hardness of shot
mortar. Bad mortar can be scraped out with a fingernail easily - not
that I suggest doing it that way


You can make it all match pretty
much by putting a wafer thin layer of the new mortar over any existing
hard mortar.

Of course... Hadn't thought of that, theres prolly room due to weathering
to allow this.

you dont need room, just brush a little on with a paintbrush, its
barely one grain of sand thick.


Avoid ribbon style pointing, it increases water ingress which isnt a
great idea with old bricks and wall types.

agreed, this looked like an attempt to square-up the worn bricks where it
was done in that area.

Flush pointing was the
standard at the time, weatherstruck is also used nowadays.

Flush is what's used on surrounding houses
(that haven't also been redone) but might look grubby when it fills the
worn brick edges, as it will 'spread' so I was considering weatherstruck to
define new lines, but this will obviously overpower the bricks- maybe a
test patch and show the owner is in order here?!

Flush is fine, better to match other houses in the area. There's no
reason for it to spread, unless youre careless.


Lime mortar is best (3:1), it avoids brick damage and handles slight
movement well . But lime is very slow to set. People have sometimes
added 5% cement to get a little initial set. 1:1:6 is often used on
these walls, but its a hard cement mortar, and damage in the future
can result. Certainly avoid harder cement mixes.

So, use a little dust or not? I've read 1:1:6 a couple times in my
research. Plasticiser in the mix not the gauging water too?

lime is a plasticiser. A little cement makes lime easier to work with,
but do keep it minimal, it affects lime negatively. Other pozzolans
are better.


With existing minor damage, don't get tempted to fill the gaps up with
mortar. If the rain will run off, its better to leave it. Mortar
filled brick damage is ugly, brick damage less so.

Do you mean likeIsaid above with the flush pointing 'spreading'? It would
suggest a recessed joint to help define the brick edge but that comes with
it's own problems of water ingress doesn't it!

No need to recess the joint, just dont also add mortar where there
should be some brick but isnt, and give the exposed top of this mortar
a very slight downslope.


Hmmnn, what-to-do...

Would still like opinions on this bit of kit, which I'd stretch to if it
proved a timesaver whilst avoiding brick damage....

http://www.google.co.uk/m/url?client...GcSJ8gO2xNPsAw....

If you think its needed youre way overestimating the hardness of bad
mortar. Anything that would need that to remove should be left in
place, just overcoat it to make it look the same.


NT

Dean Heighington wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

On 11/06/2011 23:17, Steve Firth wrote:
Dean wrote:

Steve wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

I really can't understand your hostility. Had a bad day or something?

On 11/06/2011 19:23, Dean Heighington wrote:
"Phil wrote:

All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!
Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.

Can I have a written guarantee? ;-)

It needs to be half an inch deep minimum (12.5mm)

Yes, with a nice flat back... Usually twice the width of the joint is
what's in my head so there abouts eh?

I've done several patch works, but never a complete repoint so want to get
it right. And, as you have probably guessed from my posts- there is so much
contradicting data and advice from all points of the compass



SF do carbide mortar rakes for an angle grinder. I imagine it might be
difficult to see what you were doing though.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/mortar-rak...hVYC!851758913

This one fits a power drill

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/pr...aker-10mm.html

I found the slower speed/less dust approach preferable on soft mortar.
Just did a hole at each end of the brick and tapped the middle out with
a screwdriver

stuart noble wrote:

SF do carbide mortar rakes for an angle grinder. I imagine it might be
difficult to see what you were doing though.

This one fits a power drill

I found the slower speed/less dust approach preferable on soft mortar.
Just did a hole at each end of the brick and tapped the middle out with a screwdriver

The mortasorta had a footplate with notches, so you can tell where the
cutter is- still a bit hit and miss though- not so bad on hard bricks as
the cutter prefers the softer mortar to cut through.

From what's been posted so far, I was probably overestimating and most will
come out with little persuasion... Only the tough 1:3 mix at the bottom
will require some deft work with the grinder... That's likely the most
problem area.

Limiting grinder use will also keep dust and noise to a minimum.

I also have to remove a couple of spalled bricks so the SC 125mm cutter
will probably go on the shopping list.

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

On Jun 12, 3:20*pm, Dean Heighington
wrote:
stuart noble wrote:
SF do carbide mortar rakes for an angle grinder. I imagine it might be
difficult to see what you were doing though.
This one fits a power drill
I found the slower speed/less dust approach preferable on soft mortar.
Just did a hole at each end of the brick and tapped the middle out with a screwdriver

The mortasorta had a footplate with notches, so you can tell where the
cutter is- still a bit hit and miss though- not so bad on hard bricks as
the cutter prefers the softer mortar to cut through.

From what's been posted so far, I was probably overestimating and most will
come out with little persuasion... Only the tough 1:3 mix at the bottom
will require some deft work with the grinder... That's likely the most
problem area.

Limiting grinder use will also keep dust and noise to a minimum.

I also have to remove a couple of spalled bricks so the SC 125mm cutter
will probably go on the shopping list.

/me adds you to the tradesman to avoid list


NT

Tabby wrote:
"Phil L" wrote:

Don't worry about damaging the bricks, they are usually unnoticed
after repointing.

This isnt true.


I'm not arguing with you, what I should have said is that when I repoint a
house, any brick damage is unnoticable


Use goggles when you're using the grinde

Indirect vent goggles. Too many people get injured using direct vent
ones.


All houses are moving all the time, they're never still, believe me!

Modern houses dont move enough to cause noticeable external cracking.
Old 1900 houses do, due to shallow foundations. Lime microcracks when
movemnt happens, leaving the bricks unharmed and the wall intact, then
it tends to self heal across the microcracks. Cement mortars result in
split bricks in a line, ie much greater damage and expense.



I think you'll find this is due to sulphur attack of the old iron wall ties,
and FWIW, nearly all the houses I have repointed have been Victorian

Like I said, I've used this mix for 20 years without trouble.

There's no guarantee whether strong cement mortar will or wont be ok
in 20 years. Many times it is. It certainly isnt when it eventually
decays and rips the edges of the bricks off though, that takes more
than 20yrs. 3:1 is a no-no for these properties, SPAB warns against
its use.


don't mix enough to last all day because it's usually
useless after a few hours

Cement mortar mix should be discarded if not used in 40 minutes. A
lime mortar batch can be used for days.

Never used it so I can't comment, but sand/cement IMV is the mortar to use,
all the major pointing firms use it so that's good enough for me.

Cement mortar mix should be discarded if not used in 40 minutes. A
lime mortar batch can be used for days.


Never used it so I can't comment, but sand/cement IMV is the mortar to use,
all the major pointing firms use it so that's good enough for me.



I have to say that, if I was pointing my house again, I'd give lime
mortar serious consideration, but I can understand why contractors need
something that goes off reliably in all but freezing conditions

Tabby wrote:
On Jun 12, 3:20 pm, Dean Heighington

/me adds you to the tradesman to avoid list


NT

?

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com

stuart noble wrote:
On 11/06/2011 23:17, Steve Firth wrote:
Dean wrote:

Steve wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

I really can't understand your hostility. Had a bad day or something?

This is a DIY group, not emergency assistance for those making a living
from building work.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
stuart noble wrote:
On 11/06/2011 23:17, Steve Firth wrote:
Dean wrote:

Steve wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

I really can't understand your hostility. Had a bad day or something?

This is a DIY group, not emergency assistance for those making a living
from building work.

I for one found the answers to the original question useful, and am pleased
that tradesmen find the time to post here as their answers can be most
valuable. Not only that but he was proposing doing the job himself, is that
not DIY?


Mike

On 13/06/2011 10:18, Steve Firth wrote:
stuart wrote:
On 11/06/2011 23:17, Steve Firth wrote:
Dean wrote:

Steve wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

I really can't understand your hostility. Had a bad day or something?

This is a DIY group, not emergency assistance for those making a living
from building work.

Those who make "a living" at it have contributed greatly to this group
over the years. We should be grateful for that.

stuart noble wrote:
On 13/06/2011 10:18, Steve Firth wrote:
stuart wrote:
On 11/06/2011 23:17, Steve Firth wrote:
Dean wrote:

Steve wrote:

I'm trying and struggling to find any element of DIY in your post.

Perhaps your time would be better spent doing something else.

No, pointing out that someone is a leech is a worthwhile activity.

Did you mistake this group for alt.support.clueless.tradesmen?

No.

Ah, then you're an abusive ****, then. Thanks for standing up and
declaring your ****wittery to the world.

Why don't you go a find a comittee to run/join somewhere? I hear 'they'
like clipboards.

Why don't you stick your head under a passing train?

You could get a clue and find out how usenet works, but you've already
proved that's never going to happen.

I really can't understand your hostility. Had a bad day or something?

This is a DIY group, not emergency assistance for those making a living
from building work.

Those who make "a living" at it have contributed greatly to this group
over the years. We should be grateful for that.

Don't be stupid.

"MuddyMike" wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...

I for one found the answers to the original question useful, and am pleased
that tradesmen find the time to post here as their answers can be most
valuable. Not only that but he was proposing doing the job himself, is that
not DIY?


Mike

Thank you Mike.
IME Too many people make assumptions, based on limited knowledge and
information, as seems to have happened in this thread... I posted in the
first place to avoid making the same mistake.

Making a living from the building industry doesn't mean one is an 'expert'
in all areas, yet many (such as myself) get asked by friends, family and
existing customers to 'do stuff' that is not part of our usual repertoire
because they 'trust' us and know us to be capable.

There is also an argument that someone who takes pride in their work can
make a better job of a task they're unfamiliar with, than a wisened
contractor who knows all the shortcuts and has put his/her trainee on it to
make as much £££'s from it as possible- you just can never tell, which is
why people go with those whom they trust.

As for usenet, if I'm asking questions in areas outside my knowledge (and
insodoing, helping others through the responses contributed) whilst also
contributing myself, in areas where I can... where's the harm? Is that not
what ngs/usenet is all about? I can't understand people who spend time and
effort trying to police something that is already done so, merely by one's
option to 'post' or 'not post'! It's like shouting /getting upset at a TV
programme with the remote control right in front of you!

There are lots of us out there, who are NOT Cowboy Builders. Now, Cardboard
Customers... that's another story... ;-)

--
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
masterfix{at}btinternet{dot}com