I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com

Gill Smith wrote:
I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/White_Mk_Accessories/MK_Three_Gang_Socket/index.html

--
Adam

On 01/06/11 12:09, ARWadsworth wrote:
Gill wrote:
I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/White_Mk_Accessories/MK_Three_Gang_Socket/index.html

Yes I've used those before.

I've wondered a few times whether the fuse is to protect all the sockets
(meaning 13A total load max, lower than a normal double socket) or the triple
sockets are effectively a double socket with a single on a fused spur all
within the same chassis (meaning you technically shouldn't add another spur
off them).

Easy enough to work out before you install by removing the fuse and testing
continuity between L holes with a meter I guess.

In article ,
funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 01/06/11 12:09, ARWadsworth wrote:
Gill wrote:
I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/White_Mk_Accessories/MK_Three_Gang_Socket/index.html

Yes I've used those before.

I've wondered a few times whether the fuse is to protect all the sockets
(meaning 13A total load max, lower than a normal double socket) or the triple
sockets are effectively a double socket with a single on a fused spur all
within the same chassis (meaning you technically shouldn't add another spur
off them).

Easy enough to work out before you install by removing the fuse and testing
continuity between L holes with a meter I guess.

The spec sheet at
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...MK/Sockets.pdf says
"Current rating: 13A per socket outlet (except 3 gang which is 13 amp
in total)"

Nick

--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

funkyoldcortina wrote:
On 01/06/11 12:09, ARWadsworth wrote:
Gill wrote:
I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/White_Mk_Accessories/MK_Three_Gang_Socket/index.html

Yes I've used those before.

I've wondered a few times whether the fuse is to protect all the
sockets (meaning 13A total load max, lower than a normal double
socket) or the triple sockets are effectively a double socket with a
single on a fused spur all within the same chassis (meaning you
technically shouldn't add another spur off them).

The 13A protects all the sockets.

Even if it was a double socket with a single on a fused spur you would still
be able to spur off from it.


--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" writes:

The 13A protects all the sockets.

Even if it was a double socket with a single on a fused spur you would still
be able to spur off from it.

There's now a variant (seen in B&Q) which is a double to triple socket
converter and which isn't fused at all.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

Windmill wrote:
"ARWadsworth" writes:

The 13A protects all the sockets.

Even if it was a double socket with a single on a fused spur you
would still be able to spur off from it.

There's now a variant (seen in B&Q) which is a double to triple socket
converter and which isn't fused at all.

I was aware of the unfused convertors. I mentioned it a few months ago to
John Rumm. It was this one

http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/proddeta...?prod=GB223W-C

http://greenbrook.co.uk/product-pdfs/GB223_Ins.pdf

I would not want to fit one if there is a chance of a customer overloading
it.

--
Adam

On 01/06/2011 11:55, Gill Smith wrote:
I've seen double (and maybe even quadruple sockets)

but I don't think I've seen trebles

do such things exist?

Yes.

I have a triple unswitched socket in my garage and I have seen
switched/unswitched triple sockets in B&Q and Wickes.

On 4 Jun,
"ARWadsworth" wrote:

Windmill wrote:
"ARWadsworth" writes:

The 13A protects all the sockets.

Even if it was a double socket with a single on a fused spur you
would still be able to spur off from it.

There's now a variant (seen in B&Q) which is a double to triple socket
converter and which isn't fused at all.

I was aware of the unfused convertors. I mentioned it a few months ago to
John Rumm. It was this one

http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/proddeta...?prod=GB223W-C

http://greenbrook.co.uk/product-pdfs/GB223_Ins.pdf

I would not want to fit one if there is a chance of a customer overloading
it.

Would it not be compliant if (and only if) fitted directly to the ring? the
The instructions mention it only needs one 2.5mm cable feeding it which
certainly wouldn't be compliant unless fed from a 20A MCB.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

wrote:
On 4 Jun,
"ARWadsworth" wrote:

Windmill wrote:
"ARWadsworth" writes:

The 13A protects all the sockets.

Even if it was a double socket with a single on a fused spur you
would still be able to spur off from it.

There's now a variant (seen in B&Q) which is a double to triple
socket converter and which isn't fused at all.

I was aware of the unfused convertors. I mentioned it a few months
ago to John Rumm. It was this one

http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/proddeta...?prod=GB223W-C

http://greenbrook.co.uk/product-pdfs/GB223_Ins.pdf

I would not want to fit one if there is a chance of a customer
overloading it.

Would it not be compliant if (and only if) fitted directly to the
ring? the The instructions mention it only needs one 2.5mm cable
feeding it which certainly wouldn't be compliant unless fed from a
20A MCB.

No idea. I am hoping that Andy Wade is watching this thread:-)


--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" writes:

I was aware of the unfused convertors. I mentioned it a few months ago to
John Rumm. It was this one
http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/proddeta...?prod=GB223W-C
http://greenbrook.co.uk/product-pdfs/GB223_Ins.pdf
I would not want to fit one if there is a chance of a customer overloading
it.

Isn't that unrelated to the type/number of socket or sockets in use,
but instead a question as to whether the wire gauge is properly matched
with the fuse or CB in the CU?

ISTR someone here saying that regulations permitted more than one
socket on a radial circuit.
Which could of course be an irritant if the CB repeatedly tripped
because of overloads, but would not be especially dangerous.
I'd bet they left a large safety margin when deciding on wire sizes.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

"ARWadsworth" writes:

Would it not be compliant if (and only if) fitted directly to the
ring? the The instructions mention it only needs one 2.5mm cable
feeding it which certainly wouldn't be compliant unless fed from a
20A MCB.

No idea. I am hoping that Andy Wade is watching this thread:-)

I've never used them (the unfused variety) but it seems obvious they
would be safe on a ring main. Or at least as safe as anything else
providing three sockets (which must be allowable).

Wouldn't a radial fitted with 2.5 mm cable be *expected* to be fitted
with a 15A or 20A fuse or CB? Which could of course be overloaded by
even one double socket, but which seems to have been regarded as safe.

If rewiring I suppose 4mm. cable would be better in such a case, but is
2.5mm a problem in real life?

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

Windmill wrote:
"ARWadsworth" writes:

Would it not be compliant if (and only if) fitted directly to the
ring? the The instructions mention it only needs one 2.5mm cable
feeding it which certainly wouldn't be compliant unless fed from a
20A MCB.

No idea. I am hoping that Andy Wade is watching this thread:-)

I've never used them (the unfused variety) but it seems obvious they
would be safe on a ring main. Or at least as safe as anything else
providing three sockets (which must be allowable).

Wouldn't a radial fitted with 2.5 mm cable be *expected* to be fitted
with a 15A or 20A fuse or CB? Which could of course be overloaded by
even one double socket, but which seems to have been regarded as safe.

Do you mean unfused spur instead of radial? ie a 2.5 branch from a ring
ciruit.


--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" writes:

Wouldn't a radial fitted with 2.5 mm cable be *expected* to be fitted
with a 15A or 20A fuse or CB? Which could of course be overloaded by
even one double socket, but which seems to have been regarded as safe.
Do you mean unfused spur instead of radial? ie a 2.5 branch from a ring
ciruit.

No, I was thinking of a true radial circuit.

AIUI spurs off a ring main are normally unfused, and commonly wired
with 2.5mm cable, and are permitted as a connection for one double
socket which could (though unlikely) be a 26A. load.

The use of an unfused triple socket to replace a double on a 2.5mm spur
cable sounds more dubious, but I doubt if it would in reality be much
of a risk. Sensible safety factors are usually 100% or more so I would
have expected a 2.5mm cable to handle a 39A load without much trouble.
The CB for that ring circuit might trip, of course, but probably not
quickly.

If I were wiring a new spur to an unfused triple socket I'd probably
use 4mm. cable, but I'm often over-cautious.

A *fused* triple socket should by comparison be quite safe. No
different from plugging a 3-way fused adaptor into a single socket.

It would seem that a 2.5mm true radial feeding a double socket would
be quite well protected by a 15A or 20A fuse or breaker.
Which would seem to also be the case if an unfused triple socket
was used to replace the double.

I realise it's possible to think of extreme scenarios which might cause
trouble, but if total safety is the plan, permanently disconnecting the
electricity supply is the only way.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m

Windmill wrote:
"ARWadsworth" writes:

Wouldn't a radial fitted with 2.5 mm cable be *expected* to be
fitted with a 15A or 20A fuse or CB? Which could of course be
overloaded by even one double socket, but which seems to have been
regarded as safe.
Do you mean unfused spur instead of radial? ie a 2.5 branch from a
ring ciruit.

No, I was thinking of a true radial circuit.

AIUI spurs off a ring main are normally unfused, and commonly wired
with 2.5mm cable, and are permitted as a connection for one double
socket which could (though unlikely) be a 26A. load.

The use of an unfused triple socket to replace a double on a 2.5mm
spur cable sounds more dubious, but I doubt if it would in reality be
much of a risk. Sensible safety factors are usually 100% or more so I
would have expected a 2.5mm cable to handle a 39A load without much
trouble. The CB for that ring circuit might trip, of course, but
probably not quickly.

If I were wiring a new spur to an unfused triple socket I'd probably
use 4mm. cable, but I'm often over-cautious.

A *fused* triple socket should by comparison be quite safe. No
different from plugging a 3-way fused adaptor into a single socket.

It would seem that a 2.5mm true radial feeding a double socket would
be quite well protected by a 15A or 20A fuse or breaker.
Which would seem to also be the case if an unfused triple socket
was used to replace the double.

I realise it's possible to think of extreme scenarios which might
cause trouble, but if total safety is the plan, permanently
disconnecting the electricity supply is the only way.

I am not sure that I would want 39A down a 2.5T&E for an extended period!

BS 1363 says that an unfused multiiple socket (2 sockets) must be able to
withstand a total load of 28A. This is greater than the 20A that a double
socket is required to handle.

Of course in the real world I doubt that anyone would actually run a
continuous 28A from a multiple socket.
--
Adam