In article
,
Jim K wrote:

paraphrase
"I must have the last word."
/paraphrase

Flippineck Jim - put a sock in it mate! This has been an _extremely_
useful discussion for all of us who have been following it. Your own
points have been -- as always -- well made, and appreciated: thank you!

John

On 1/5/2011 6:14 AM, Ronald Raygun wrote:

Even when one tips it into a metal bin, it's better that the ashes
should be at 200 than at 600 degrees C. The hotter the ash, the more
volatile it is, so it will generate more dust whilst in transit to the
bucket. Also, the hotter it is, and the more you tip into the metal
bucket (especially when it is empty), the bucket itself can get hot
enough to make melt/burn marks on the floor.


My ash buckets have a double/false bottom - so are highly unlikely to
char the floor.

On Jan 5, 12:22 pm, Another John wrote:
In article
,
Jim K wrote:

paraphrase
"I must have the last word."
/paraphrase

Flippineck Jim - put a sock in it mate! This has been an _extremely_
useful discussion for all of us who have been following it. Your own
points have been -- as always -- well made, and appreciated: thank you!

John

of course you are also welcome "John" to join in as you see fit.

I am merely trying to record a balanced view in the discussion from my
own experiences, & ISTR I have concurred on a number of aspects from
other posters.
..
Should you wish to stop reading this thread now then that is also
*your* choice....;)

Jim K

On Jan 5, 11:14*am, Ronald Raygun
wrote:
Jim K wrote:
my point is that if the OP is encouraged to run "24/7" with a *bigger*
stove than your old one, he will have to consider the supply and
disposal of fuel and waste/ashes

So what? *He will need to consider those things no matter how big or
small a stove he uses. *The dodgy practice I described, of letting the
ash pan cool to room temperature for a short while before tipping it
into a plastic bin was not a recommendation (you should always use a
metal bin), it was merely illustrative to amplify the point that it is
important that one's riddling routine should be such as to avoid the
ash pan being full of red hot stuff while it is taken out of the stove.

Even when one tips it into a metal bin, it's better that the ashes
should be at 200 than at 600 degrees C. *The hotter the ash, the more
volatile it is, so it will generate more dust whilst in transit to the
bucket. *Also, the hotter it is, and the more you tip into the metal
bucket (especially when it is empty), the bucket itself can get hot
enough to make melt/burn marks on the floor.

and associated crap and filth - *more
so* with coal based solid fuels than wood IME.

Agreed, the risk of finding incompletely burnt (and still glowing) bits
sitting in the ash is lower with wood (provided the stove has not been
recently riddled!). *At least this doesn't matter much when using a
metal ash bin.

But using wood for a 24/7 stove will produce a greater volume of ash per
day, the stove will tend to need more than one emptying per day, there is
a greater risk of the stove going out overnight, and it needs feeding more
frequently than if you use manufactured smokeless fuel. *You need also to
consider the price of fuel, and to provide suitable on-site storage for it,
and for the same amount of energy you produce per day, you need either more
room or more frequent deliveries when your fuel of choice is wood.

The advantage of a multifuel stove is that you can mix and compromise. *You
can burn wood while you're spending time in the room, and then top up with
black stuff for overnight.

I can use my woodburning stove for months before it needs a cleanout
(of ash) which can go on the garden..
Coal produces lots more ash that is harder to dipose of.

On Jan 5, 4:32 pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:14 am, Ronald Raygun
wrote:



Jim K wrote:
my point is that if the OP is encouraged to run "24/7" with a *bigger*
stove than your old one, he will have to consider the supply and
disposal of fuel and waste/ashes

So what? He will need to consider those things no matter how big or
small a stove he uses. The dodgy practice I described, of letting the
ash pan cool to room temperature for a short while before tipping it
into a plastic bin was not a recommendation (you should always use a
metal bin), it was merely illustrative to amplify the point that it is
important that one's riddling routine should be such as to avoid the
ash pan being full of red hot stuff while it is taken out of the stove.

Even when one tips it into a metal bin, it's better that the ashes
should be at 200 than at 600 degrees C. The hotter the ash, the more
volatile it is, so it will generate more dust whilst in transit to the
bucket. Also, the hotter it is, and the more you tip into the metal
bucket (especially when it is empty), the bucket itself can get hot
enough to make melt/burn marks on the floor.

and associated crap and filth - *more
so* with coal based solid fuels than wood IME.

Agreed, the risk of finding incompletely burnt (and still glowing) bits
sitting in the ash is lower with wood (provided the stove has not been
recently riddled!). At least this doesn't matter much when using a
metal ash bin.

But using wood for a 24/7 stove will produce a greater volume of ash per
day, the stove will tend to need more than one emptying per day, there is
a greater risk of the stove going out overnight, and it needs feeding more
frequently than if you use manufactured smokeless fuel. You need also to
consider the price of fuel, and to provide suitable on-site storage for it,
and for the same amount of energy you produce per day, you need either more
room or more frequent deliveries when your fuel of choice is wood.

The advantage of a multifuel stove is that you can mix and compromise. You
can burn wood while you're spending time in the room, and then top up with
black stuff for overnight.

I can use my woodburning stove for months before it needs a cleanout
(of ash) which can go on the garden..
Coal produces lots more ash that is harder to dipose of.

that is my experience too

(but don't tell anyone I said so here ;)

Jim K

S Viemeister wrote:

On 1/5/2011 6:14 AM, Ronald Raygun wrote:

Even when one tips it into a metal bin, it's better that the ashes
should be at 200 than at 600 degrees C. The hotter the ash, the more
volatile it is, so it will generate more dust whilst in transit to the
bucket. Also, the hotter it is, and the more you tip into the metal
bucket (especially when it is empty), the bucket itself can get hot
enough to make melt/burn marks on the floor.

My ash buckets have a double/false bottom - so are highly unlikely to
char the floor.

My bucket's bottom is held clear of the floor by 2-3cm by a rim.
But the rim itself is just a continuation of the sides, and I'm
concerned that heat conduction along this rim may suffice to melt
the lino.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message
, harry
writes
On Jan 3, 9:19 pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
There seems to be a lot of variation in price, for the same
kilowattage. Would anyone care to recommend a make, in the 5-8 kW
range? What is the Miele of multifuel stoves?

Cheers
Richard

Anything from Norway/Sweden. You mostly pay for fancy ironwork, some
of which is quite fragile. "Flamewashing" doesn't work.

If you can, go for a "roomsealed" one, ie draws air from outside
directly into the stove. These avoid drawing cold air into the room.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

Not a recommendation but a couple of points....

Fire bars used for multifuel are more expensive as they are said to need
chrome steel.

Heat output to the room is seriously diminished by back and side boilers.

We have a stove from Clearview (Shropshire), welded steel, underfloor
draft option and airwash.

In my experience, airwash does work. The glass accumulates a grey finish
over several weeks constant use. This can be readily scrubbed off with
washing up liquid and sponge. Dry, mainly hardwood fuel. Previous
experience with glass doors was black soot requiring pot scouring.


I would also agree that the Clearview is the rolls royce of stoves. I'd also
agree they are very expensive, but IMHO, worth it. The Wenlock is also a
good stove.

Tim..

On 5 Jan, 17:58, "Tim.." wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message

...





In message
, harry
writes
On Jan 3, 9:19 pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
There seems to be a lot of variation in price, for the same
kilowattage. Would anyone care to recommend a make, in the 5-8 kW
range? What is the Miele of multifuel stoves?

Cheers
Richard

Anything from Norway/Sweden. *You mostly pay for fancy ironwork, some
of which is quite fragile. *"Flamewashing" doesn't work.

If you can, go for a "roomsealed" one, ie draws air from outside
directly into the stove. *These avoid drawing cold air into the room.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

Not a recommendation but a couple of points....

Fire bars used for multifuel are more expensive as they are said to need
chrome steel.

Heat output to the room is seriously diminished by back and side boilers.

We have a stove from Clearview (Shropshire), welded steel, underfloor
draft option and airwash.

In my experience, airwash does work. The glass accumulates a grey finish
over several weeks constant use. This can be readily scrubbed off with
washing up liquid and sponge. Dry, mainly hardwood fuel. Previous
experience with glass doors was black soot requiring pot scouring.

I would also agree that the Clearview is the rolls royce of stoves. I'd also
agree they are very expensive, but IMHO, worth it. *The Wenlock is also a
good stove.

Tim..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks, and thanks everyone for the information in amost interesting
thread. Does anyone have any experience of Stovax stoves, and the
Sheraton in particular? This is the one I might have available for
refurbishment. Can anyone suggest what would be a fair price to pay
for one in used condition, needing a new top plate, for bricks and
rope? With reasons for your price ;-)

Cheers
Richard

replying to Jonathan, Tony J R wrote:
We also have a Super Demon, but now need spares or a drawing to show how the
right hand hand operates to air inlet flap. Ours has broken and just spins
round and we need to get it fixed. Tony

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...es-679446-.htm

On Wednesday, 5 January 2011 17:58:29 UTC, Tim.. wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message
, harry
writes
On Jan 3, 9:19 pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
There seems to be a lot of variation in price, for the same
kilowattage. Would anyone care to recommend a make, in the 5-8 kW
range? What is the Miele of multifuel stoves?

Cheers
Richard

Anything from Norway/Sweden. You mostly pay for fancy ironwork, some
of which is quite fragile. "Flamewashing" doesn't work.

If you can, go for a "roomsealed" one, ie draws air from outside
directly into the stove. These avoid drawing cold air into the room.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

Not a recommendation but a couple of points....

Fire bars used for multifuel are more expensive as they are said to need
chrome steel.

Heat output to the room is seriously diminished by back and side boilers.

We have a stove from Clearview (Shropshire), welded steel, underfloor
draft option and airwash.

In my experience, airwash does work. The glass accumulates a grey finish
over several weeks constant use. This can be readily scrubbed off with
washing up liquid and sponge. Dry, mainly hardwood fuel. Previous
experience with glass doors was black soot requiring pot scouring.


I would also agree that the Clearview is the rolls royce of stoves. I'd also
agree they are very expensive, but IMHO, worth it. The Wenlock is also a
good stove.

Tim..

We also have a Clearview and like it. The airwash works. Firelighters
are seldom needed as a few sheets of scrunched up newspaper are usually
enough to light dry logs - even oak.
A local tree surgeon tells me that he is getting a good price for chipped
wood at the moment because there is a shortage of wood for power stations
to burn. I think he mentioned around £55 per tonne, collected from his
storage field.

John

On 21/11/2019 11:12, wrote:
On Wednesday, 5 January 2011 17:58:29 UTC, Tim.. wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message
, harry
writes
On Jan 3, 9:19 pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
There seems to be a lot of variation in price, for the same
kilowattage. Would anyone care to recommend a make, in the 5-8 kW
range? What is the Miele of multifuel stoves?

Cheers
Richard

Anything from Norway/Sweden. You mostly pay for fancy ironwork, some
of which is quite fragile. "Flamewashing" doesn't work.

If you can, go for a "roomsealed" one, ie draws air from outside
directly into the stove. These avoid drawing cold air into the room.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

Not a recommendation but a couple of points....

Fire bars used for multifuel are more expensive as they are said to need
chrome steel.

Heat output to the room is seriously diminished by back and side boilers.

We have a stove from Clearview (Shropshire), welded steel, underfloor
draft option and airwash.

In my experience, airwash does work. The glass accumulates a grey finish
over several weeks constant use. This can be readily scrubbed off with
washing up liquid and sponge. Dry, mainly hardwood fuel. Previous
experience with glass doors was black soot requiring pot scouring.

A little fresh wood ash on a wet paper towel also works.

I would also agree that the Clearview is the rolls royce of stoves. I'd also
agree they are very expensive, but IMHO, worth it. The Wenlock is also a
good stove.

Tim..

We also have a Clearview and like it. The airwash works. Firelighters
are seldom needed as a few sheets of scrunched up newspaper are usually
enough to light dry logs - even oak.

I have never used firelighters. If you build the fire right it will
always catch from newspaper unless your wood is too damp.

Mine is a Charnwood with a back boiler. You don't get as much heat
directly into the room but it can supply hot water and power the central
heating system too except in the coldest weather. You get a fair bit
more power out of it when burning coal. To keep it going overnight it
isn't a bad idea to put a couple of pieces of dense smokeless fuel in
even when the grate is configured for burning wood. Mine quite often
gets relit from the embers in the late afternoon.

The fire chamber top baffle plate is mildly annoying to get in and out
and the grate rotation can jam if you burn too much stuff with nails in.

A local tree surgeon tells me that he is getting a good price for chipped
wood at the moment because there is a shortage of wood for power stations
to burn. I think he mentioned around £55 per tonne, collected from his
storage field.

Not surprised. They ship a lot of it over from the USA!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 21/11/2019 11:34, Martin Brown wrote:


I have never used firelighters. If you build the fire right it will
always catch from newspaper unless your wood is too damp.

Friends have a dual fuel burner and when moving into the property was
told it was very difficult to light. The chimney sweep told them that it
was a common problem because the first time after being left without a
fire for a lengthy period the metal flue liner (in a traditional chimney
stack) was too cold and had more of a down-draft rather than an
up-draft. He advised using firelighters for the first lighting. The
advice was ignored at first and the fire was lit with newspaper, small
dry sticks etc. and it refused to catch or stay alight for more than a
few minutes. Firelighters were obtained and these kept the flames going
long enough for the flue liner to heat up and then there was a
transformation with air being drawn up through the system. Subsequent
lightings were no problem probably because the latent heat from the
brick chimney stack kept the flue warm enough.


Mine is a Charnwood with a back boiler. You don't get as much heat
directly into the room but it can supply hot water and power the central
heating system too except in the coldest weather.

The stove mentioned above did not heat water nor support CH but pushed
out a great deal of heat when wood/coal consumption was high (air vents
fully open and a roaring fire). Wood could not be stored beside the
stove because after around an hour it started smoking! I suggest not an
ideal heating method if you have small children around.

You get a fair bit
more power out of it when burning coal. To keep it going overnight it
isn't a bad idea to put a couple of pieces of dense smokeless fuel in
even when the grate is configured for burning wood. Mine quite often
gets relit from the embers in the late afternoon.

If coal was used overnight and the stove turned it down it could relight
logs from the embers in the morning, if required.

The stove (in a kitchen) is somewhat redundant now that oil CH has been
installed.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 21/11/2019 12:35, alan_m wrote:
On 21/11/2019 11:34, Martin Brown wrote:

I have never used firelighters. If you build the fire right it will
always catch from newspaper unless your wood is too damp.

Friends have a dual fuel burner and when moving into the property was
told it was very difficult to light. The chimney sweep told them that it
was a common problem because the first time after being left without a
fire for a lengthy period the metal flue liner (in a traditional chimney
stack) was too cold and had more of a down-draft rather than an
up-draft. He advised using firelighters for the first lighting. The

I've never had that problem even from first install when they tested it
from new in midsummer it lit first time with minimal effort.

The only time it can be difficult to light is when the fire has been
laid but not lit for weeks and then is needed on a particularly cold
evening. Even so opening the door a crack usually gets it going.

advice was ignored at first and the fire was lit with newspaper, small
dry sticks etc. and it refused to catch or stay alight for more than a
few minutes. Firelighters were obtained and these kept the flames going
long enough for the flue liner to heat up and then there was a
transformation with air being drawn up through the system. Subsequent
lightings were no problem probably because the latent heat from the
brick chimney stack kept the flue warm enough.

Never had any problems with the draw on the chimney. That is unless the
baffle needs cleaning which is weekly routine maintenance in season.

Mine is a Charnwood with a back boiler. You don't get as much heat
directly into the room but it can supply hot water and power the
central heating system too except in the coldest weather.

The stove mentioned above did not heat water nor support CH but pushed
out a great deal of heat when wood/coal consumption was high (air vents
fully open and a roaring fire). Wood could not be stored beside the
stove because after around an hour it started smoking!Â* I suggest not an
ideal heating method if you have small children around.

That is what fireguards are for. Mine has one of the TEC powered fans on
top which moves the trapped warm air out of the fireplace enclosure into
the main room. They make quite a difference.

You get a fair bit more power out of it when burning coal. To keep it
going overnight it isn't a bad idea to put a couple of pieces of dense
smokeless fuel in even when the grate is configured for burning wood.
Mine quite often gets relit from the embers in the late afternoon.

If coal was used overnight and the stove turned it down it could relight
logs from the embers in the morning, if required.

The stove (in a kitchen) is somewhat redundant now that oil CH has been
installed.

Although I have oil CH the oil is more expensive than scrap wood.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Yes go back to 2011 and see what the difference is :-)
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 5 January 2011 17:58:29 UTC, Tim.. wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message
,
harry
writes
On Jan 3, 9:19 pm, geraldthehamster wrote:
There seems to be a lot of variation in price, for the same
kilowattage. Would anyone care to recommend a make, in the 5-8 kW
range? What is the Miele of multifuel stoves?

Cheers
Richard

Anything from Norway/Sweden. You mostly pay for fancy ironwork, some
of which is quite fragile. "Flamewashing" doesn't work.

If you can, go for a "roomsealed" one, ie draws air from outside
directly into the stove. These avoid drawing cold air into the room.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/external-air-stove.html

Not a recommendation but a couple of points....

Fire bars used for multifuel are more expensive as they are said to need
chrome steel.

Heat output to the room is seriously diminished by back and side
boilers.

We have a stove from Clearview (Shropshire), welded steel, underfloor
draft option and airwash.

In my experience, airwash does work. The glass accumulates a grey finish
over several weeks constant use. This can be readily scrubbed off with
washing up liquid and sponge. Dry, mainly hardwood fuel. Previous
experience with glass doors was black soot requiring pot scouring.


I would also agree that the Clearview is the rolls royce of stoves. I'd
also
agree they are very expensive, but IMHO, worth it. The Wenlock is also a
good stove.

Tim..

We also have a Clearview and like it. The airwash works. Firelighters
are seldom needed as a few sheets of scrunched up newspaper are usually
enough to light dry logs - even oak.
A local tree surgeon tells me that he is getting a good price for chipped
wood at the moment because there is a shortage of wood for power stations
to burn. I think he mentioned around £55 per tonne, collected from his
storage field.

John