I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how far
I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the services
of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this particular issue.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but hopefulyl
should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones if needed.

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there is a
section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile and so I am
considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet drain.
I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be as directly
below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the pipes outside but
the boxing is smaller.

This box represents to problems for my tiling. First as you can see to the
right off the toothbrushes there is like a weird triangular edge - which
will be difficult to tile around - the same thing is apparent on the other
side where the brooms are (but prob not visible in the picture)

You can see the other problem in this picture - which is taken just above
the toothbrush holder

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose. Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.

So at thos point can I somehow bash that out and replaster? How so? And can
I remove those triangler bits going up the wall?

------------

The other thing is the water feeds. Behind the wall we seem to have 2 water
feeds. At the bottom is the cold water for the taps and bath and at the top
is the one for the toilet. Our toilet use to have the cistern at the top
hence why the water feed comes out there. But now the toilet has been
chnaged I wonder if the feed can be taken from where the cold water comes
out and then go up the wall to the toilet as opposed to going down the
wall.

This is the toilet water feed again

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

If I did cap it off - I dont think I could cap it off completley so its
hiden in the wall anyway.

This is the cold water supply for the taps, near the floor.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/26122010002.jpg/

So if you lok at this picture again

I could have the cold feed coming around from the bottom as opposed to down
from the top and remove that other bit sticking out of the wall

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/26122010.jpg/

-------

So my optons appear to be

1) just tile over everything as best I can and leave the pipework as it is

2) bahs out the vent and tile over

3) totally remvoe all the boxing and replace with fresh new stuff and amend
the boxing as required. The other benefit this may throw up is that the
boxing needs only to be half height as the pipes will not need to go up
high.

The drainage for the toilet is outside of the box, and it looks difficult
to adjust it to anything else without professional help

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/26122010007.jpg/

Now the worry with bashing the existing boxing out and making it half
height is that the ceiling and walls will probably not be plastered or
anything.

Also what would be the bext way to box it back in - using wood or
plasterboard?

I suppose I could be fancy and try to hide the cistern behind the boxing
(allowing it to open up) but its probably beyond my skills!

Any thoughts appreciated.

In article ,
says...
http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose. Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.


Is there any alternative ventilation provided? If not, rather than tile
over it I'd be tempted to make it work, using a fan and a flap vent.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Skipweasel wrote in
om:

In article ,
says...
http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no
purpose. Now someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash
that bit out and plaster over it.


Is there any alternative ventilation provided? If not, rather than
tile over it I'd be tempted to make it work, using a fan and a flap
vent.


Apart from the normal windows no there is no other ventilation

That vent has been there for like 20 years and I think its blocked.

If I removed that boxing, presumably I would find that on the actual
concrete wall there is the other end to that vent. I could then either try
to clear that and tile around it or just cover it up.

I can see the other side of that vent on the outside of the house.I am
unsure if its blocked at that end too.

Hi,

I've just done a bathroom...

On 26/12/10 21:55, mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

JG Speedfit might be an option - mates with copper and easy to handle,
only special tool (other than for handling any existing copper feeds)
required is a pair of pipe shears.

I'm going all copper, but I have some years practise - having said that,
I've used JG Speedfit for temporary feeds and have been very impressed
with it.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how far
I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the services
of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this particular issue.

Yep - no shame in subbing out plastering, especially ceilings.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but hopefulyl
should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones if needed.

Can you get a lamp in there and retake the dark one with the pipes in?

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there is a
section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile and so I am
considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet drain.
I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be as directly
below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the pipes outside but
the boxing is smaller.

This box represents to problems for my tiling. First as you can see to the
right off the toothbrushes there is like a weird triangular edge - which
will be difficult to tile around - the same thing is apparent on the other
side where the brooms are (but prob not visible in the picture)

You can see the other problem in this picture - which is taken just above
the toothbrush holder

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose. Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.

So at thos point can I somehow bash that out and replaster? How so? And can
I remove those triangler bits going up the wall?

------------

The other thing is the water feeds. Behind the wall we seem to have 2 water
feeds. At the bottom is the cold water for the taps and bath and at the top
is the one for the toilet. Our toilet use to have the cistern at the top
hence why the water feed comes out there. But now the toilet has been
chnaged I wonder if the feed can be taken from where the cold water comes
out and then go up the wall to the toilet as opposed to going down the
wall.

This is the toilet water feed again

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

If I did cap it off - I dont think I could cap it off completley so its
hiden in the wall anyway.

This is the cold water supply for the taps, near the floor.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/26122010002.jpg/

So if you lok at this picture again

I could have the cold feed coming around from the bottom as opposed to down
from the top and remove that other bit sticking out of the wall

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/26122010.jpg/

-------

So my optons appear to be

1) just tile over everything as best I can and leave the pipework as it is

2) bahs out the vent and tile over

3) totally remvoe all the boxing and replace with fresh new stuff and amend
the boxing as required. The other benefit this may throw up is that the
boxing needs only to be half height as the pipes will not need to go up
high.

The drainage for the toilet is outside of the box, and it looks difficult
to adjust it to anything else without professional help

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/26122010007.jpg/

Now the worry with bashing the existing boxing out and making it half
height is that the ceiling and walls will probably not be plastered or
anything.

Also what would be the bext way to box it back in - using wood or
plasterboard?

I suppose I could be fancy and try to hide the cistern behind the boxing
(allowing it to open up) but its probably beyond my skills!

Any thoughts appreciated.


Overall:

If you didn't mind the size of the boxing, tile over it - I would
personall try to tile at least to waist height round the back of the loo
and to the side - makes cleaning so much easier.

That triangular bit - is it something that can be chopped off? It's not
too bad handling tile over those types of thing though. (Assuming you
will be using ceramic tiles, not stone or porcelaine) Get the low end
Rubi score-n-snap cutter - not expensive but cuts cleanly down to less
than 20mm wide so thinner strips are possible for things like this.

However, if you don't mind the extra work and are planning to tak ethe
loo out anyway, it could be an excellent chance to re do that box. It is
a simple rectangle and I personally would use 18mm WBP ply as that can
form pretty rigid panels with less support.

Does this box need to go full height or can you terminate it 20cm above
the bog seat (or so)? Or you might use it to contain a concealed cistern
in which case you could make it 4' or so high.

If so then you could put a nice lid on top to make a shelf and allow
easy access to inspect stuff...

That vent - IIRC latest building regs require an extract fan for
bathrooms even if there is a window, previous version didn't if you had
a window.

If that is just an open to air vent and especially if it is blocked
externally (did I read that right) then get rid of the vent grill.

But it would be a good idea to consider an extract fan wired to a
humidistat + pull cord for No2 reasons, or wired to the lights or wired
to a PIR.

Being called by SWMBO - more to follow later...

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote in
:

Hi,

I've just done a bathroom...

Hi

Yes the toilet will be pulled out when I retile

I am not fussed either way if the box is rebuilt back to full height or
maybe only half height

If I go half height I can put a storage cupboard to make it full height

Or I can, as mentioned try and put the cistern behind the half height box
and make it accesible with a lid.

The only reason I can think that it has been made 'full height; is because
of the vent and the need for the toilet pipe to originally have come out at
the top.



My only worry is rebuilding the box back to the requireed standard and then
putting in new holes for all the pipework,


I would really like to see what is behind the box, but i can't unless its
broken in!

On 26/12/10 23:13, mo wrote:
Tim wrote in
:

Hi,

I've just done a bathroom...

And here it is at the 90% stage:

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bungalow/bathroom/


Hi

Yes the toilet will be pulled out when I retile

I am not fussed either way if the box is rebuilt back to full height or
maybe only half height

If I go half height I can put a storage cupboard to make it full height


Given the plumbing in there, I would recommend a way of peering into it
- especially more so if you have to have an AAV (air valve) in there as
those things may require occasional replacement.

Continuing full height as a cupboard would be an excellent idea - load
of storage and you can make the shelves, including the base shelf
removable allowing access to the cistern and/or pipes.

Or I can, as mentioned try and put the cistern behind the half height box
and make it accesible with a lid.

The only reason I can think that it has been made 'full height; is because
of the vent and the need for the toilet pipe to originally have come out at
the top.



My only worry is rebuilding the box back to the requireed standard and then
putting in new holes for all the pipework,

Building the box is easy.

If you see mine, that was hard because it had to be so far back to clear
the back of the bog, yet so far forward to clear the 110mm junction - in
the end I made it stepped/overlapped with a 45 degree turn on the tiles
as it was impossible to do with a single sheet.

Yours is much easier. In the simplest form, 2 battens on the walls,
vertical; one on the right for the main panel to sit back against and
one on the left for the side panel to sit on.

Cut 2 rectangular 18mm ply panels, butt joint the left forward corner,
screw into both battens and screw through the butt joint. If you fancied
using thinner ply you could run a batten down the inside of the butt
joint and screw both ply sections to that and screw+glue some 1x2" type
batten to the back of the ply sheets to stiffen it.

But, if you draw it out, you should find the basic box is a very easy
construction job involving ply plus a few lenghts of 2x1" PAR (44x18mm
finished size if memory serves). Use Wickes or a timber merchant for the
wood - it might actually be straight and stay that way,

Watch the ply - even some of that is turning out to be skewed and bent
in the shops, I've noticed recently.

I would recommend BAL Greenstar or BAL Bluestar for the walls for tiling
- a very nice tub adhesive - Screwfix have it. But I would recommend a
different adhesive for tiling over the panels - a Class II flexible will
mean nothing cracks if there is a flexing or movement. Ditto for the grout.

Rather than rambling on here, I suggest you start a new thread on
adhesives and grouts and tiling tools when the time is right (or now if
you want). There are a lot of options and a few simple choices now will
make that part so much easier and better.

OK - holes in panel.

This is more bitchy...

The only way IME to get it right is - and this assumes you can take your
time and have another loo in the house:

Make up the new boxing - screwed with a couple of screws so you can
mount and demount it a few times.

Have the new loo and assorted connectors ready and dry fit.

With a dry fitted assembly, you can use a square to drop the sides of
the pan connector down onto lines on the floor. Take the vertical
measurements and mark up the ply and jigsaw the hole.

For other pipes, if they run close to the wall, it is easiest to fit
them then cut "U"s out of the edges of the ply so it just fits over
them. You can glue in a little bit of ply offcut onto the wall batten if
you want a surface to tile onto right behind the pipe.

Then basically fit the boxing, check the loo refits OK, or enlarge the
hole(s) if needed. If they are a little off or oversized, it's OK as the
tiles can overhang the edge and these can be trimmed for a prefect
finish after the loo is in, allowing 4-5mm for silicone.

Another trick is after dry fitting the loo, is to support the pan
connector in place (pack it in place with offcuts of wood round the back
and underneath.

Then take the loo out and do your tiling while you have more space. If
the pan connector remains in the correct place you can cut the tiles to
get a nice fit around it. Refit loo after grouting and the only fiddly
bit then is to silicone round the soil pipe and flush pipes - I would do
this after fitting the loo as it may need to move slighlty to accept the
loo spigot.


I would really like to see what is behind the box, but i can't unless its
broken in!



Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote in




Cheers

Tim


Thanks for all the advice, your bathroom looks nice. Especially the pipes
under the sink!

How did you connect up the taps in the bath?


---

My main thought was to box up to half height and then tile it all, leaving
access via the lid.

I hadn;t thought about a full height cupboard, its a good idea. I think I
am limited by my woodworking skills. I wonder if I can buy a ready made
unit that slots in. Or maybe consider getting one made up. If I get a wood
effect cupboard I spose I don't have to tile over it

The other thign was I wanted a sink basin on a vanity unit so I had storage
under the sink as opposed to a pedestal. They are quite expensive, so I
could kill 2 birds with one stone if I got the cabinet made.

Does anyone know what th deal is with these basins you buy for unit tops?
Are they literally a normal basin with the normal holes and you just choose
what to put them onto and cut holes as apropriate?

On 28/12/10 16:45, mo wrote:
Tim wrote in


Thanks for all the advice, your bathroom looks nice. Especially the pipes
under the sink!

How did you connect up the taps in the bath?


With some amount of fiddling.

The key was that the wall behind the bath has a lintle supported opening
into the next room big enough to lie into and work under the taps - in
this sense it is actually easier to access everything than a normal bath.

I did careful 3D compound bends to mate between the taps and the
incoming pipework - that was fiddly and took 3 goes but was worth it as
the taps are nice and firm thanks to the extra support from the pipe.
But you could use tap tails for ease.

---

My main thought was to box up to half height and then tile it all, leaving
access via the lid.

Sounds good.

I hadn;t thought about a full height cupboard, its a good idea. I think I
am limited by my woodworking skills. I wonder if I can buy a ready made
unit that slots in. Or maybe consider getting one made up. If I get a wood
effect cupboard I spose I don't have to tile over it

If you can find a ready made about the right size now, you have the
option to design your boxing to either match it or at least mate cleanly
- worth looking into.

The other thign was I wanted a sink basin on a vanity unit so I had storage
under the sink as opposed to a pedestal. They are quite expensive, so I
could kill 2 birds with one stone if I got the cabinet made.

Does anyone know what th deal is with these basins you buy for unit tops?
Are they literally a normal basin with the normal holes and you just choose
what to put them onto and cut holes as apropriate?

The key thing is that they generally have a horizontal base lip that
sits on the worktop. You'd find it harder to take a generic basin with a
curved profile and sit it nicely though it can be done.

Worth a visit to BathStore or some other place where you can see a
variety of sinks in the raw.

I have a saying that if you don't feel upto the job, design the job down
to your comfort level - always worked for me and usually quite
practical where you have a lot of design flexibility.

--
Tim Watts

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've just done a bathroom...

On 26/12/10 21:55, mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

JG Speedfit might be an option - mates with copper and easy to handle,
only special tool (other than for handling any existing copper feeds)
required is a pair of pipe shears.

I'm going all copper, but I have some years practise - having said that,
I've used JG Speedfit for temporary feeds and have been very impressed
with it.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how
far
I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the
services
of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this particular issue.

Yep - no shame in subbing out plastering, especially ceilings.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but
hopefulyl
should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones if needed.

Can you get a lamp in there and retake the dark one with the pipes in?

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there is
a
section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile and so I
am
considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet
drain.
I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be as directly
below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the pipes outside but
the boxing is smaller.

This box represents to problems for my tiling. First as you can see to
the
right off the toothbrushes there is like a weird triangular edge - which
will be difficult to tile around - the same thing is apparent on the
other
side where the brooms are (but prob not visible in the picture)

You can see the other problem in this picture - which is taken just above
the toothbrush holder

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose.
Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.

So at thos point can I somehow bash that out and replaster? How so? And
can
I remove those triangler bits going up the wall?

------------

The other thing is the water feeds. Behind the wall we seem to have 2
water
feeds. At the bottom is the cold water for the taps and bath and at the
top
is the one for the toilet. Our toilet use to have the cistern at the top
hence why the water feed comes out there. But now the toilet has been
chnaged I wonder if the feed can be taken from where the cold water comes
out and then go up the wall to the toilet as opposed to going down the
wall.

This is the toilet water feed again

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

If I did cap it off - I dont think I could cap it off completley so its
hiden in the wall anyway.

This is the cold water supply for the taps, near the floor.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/26122010002.jpg/

So if you lok at this picture again

I could have the cold feed coming around from the bottom as opposed to
down
from the top and remove that other bit sticking out of the wall

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/26122010.jpg/

-------

So my optons appear to be

1) just tile over everything as best I can and leave the pipework as it
is

2) bahs out the vent and tile over

3) totally remvoe all the boxing and replace with fresh new stuff and
amend
the boxing as required. The other benefit this may throw up is that the
boxing needs only to be half height as the pipes will not need to go up
high.

The drainage for the toilet is outside of the box, and it looks difficult
to adjust it to anything else without professional help

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/26122010007.jpg/

Now the worry with bashing the existing boxing out and making it half
height is that the ceiling and walls will probably not be plastered or
anything.

Also what would be the bext way to box it back in - using wood or
plasterboard?

I suppose I could be fancy and try to hide the cistern behind the boxing
(allowing it to open up) but its probably beyond my skills!

Any thoughts appreciated.


Overall:

If you didn't mind the size of the boxing, tile over it - I would
personall try to tile at least to waist height round the back of the loo
and to the side - makes cleaning so much easier.

That triangular bit - is it something that can be chopped off? It's not
too bad handling tile over those types of thing though. (Assuming you will
be using ceramic tiles, not stone or porcelaine) Get the low end Rubi
score-n-snap cutter - not expensive but cuts cleanly down to less than
20mm wide so thinner strips are possible for things like this.

However, if you don't mind the extra work and are planning to tak ethe loo
out anyway, it could be an excellent chance to re do that box. It is a
simple rectangle and I personally would use 18mm WBP ply as that can form
pretty rigid panels with less support.

Does this box need to go full height or can you terminate it 20cm above
the bog seat (or so)? Or you might use it to contain a concealed cistern
in which case you could make it 4' or so high.

If so then you could put a nice lid on top to make a shelf and allow easy
access to inspect stuff...

That vent - IIRC latest building regs require an extract fan for bathrooms
even if there is a window, previous version didn't if you had a window.

If that is just an open to air vent and especially if it is blocked
externally (did I read that right) then get rid of the vent grill.

But it would be a good idea to consider an extract fan wired to a
humidistat + pull cord for No2 reasons, or wired to the lights or wired to
a PIR.

Being called by SWMBO - more to follow later...

--
Tim Watts

I wouldnt attempt to offer advice on the above, however I was in the same
situation a couple of years back (although I did have another toilet to use)
I ripped out the old shower had a boxed part for pipes removed (similar to
yours) took out a small partition wall and re artexed the space where the
wall joined the ceiling.
Up to that point I had never tiled, artexed etc.
I did use a plumber a friend who was much cheap but I surprised myself
regarding what I could do after googling and taking advice from
professionals.
A lot of jobs are not too difficult if you have reasonable DIY skills it
just takes you 5 times as long to do them (my opinion)
One thing we changed was putting a new loo in the corner at 45% which gave
us a lot more space (en suite)

Just trying to offer some encouragement rather than advice.

On 26/12/10 21:55, mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how far
I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the services
of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this particular issue.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but hopefulyl
should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones if needed.

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there is a
section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile and so I am
considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet drain.
I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be as directly
below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the pipes outside but
the boxing is smaller.

This box represents to problems for my tiling. First as you can see to the
right off the toothbrushes there is like a weird triangular edge - which
will be difficult to tile around - the same thing is apparent on the other
side where the brooms are (but prob not visible in the picture)

You can see the other problem in this picture - which is taken just above
the toothbrush holder

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose. Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.

So at thos point can I somehow bash that out and replaster? How so? And can
I remove those triangler bits going up the wall?

------------

The other thing is the water feeds. Behind the wall we seem to have 2 water
feeds. At the bottom is the cold water for the taps and bath and at the top
is the one for the toilet. Our toilet use to have the cistern at the top
hence why the water feed comes out there. But now the toilet has been
chnaged I wonder if the feed can be taken from where the cold water comes
out and then go up the wall to the toilet as opposed to going down the
wall.

This is the toilet water feed again

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

If I did cap it off - I dont think I could cap it off completley so its
hiden in the wall anyway.

This is the cold water supply for the taps, near the floor.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/26122010002.jpg/

So if you lok at this picture again

I could have the cold feed coming around from the bottom as opposed to down
from the top and remove that other bit sticking out of the wall

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/26122010.jpg/

-------

So my optons appear to be

1) just tile over everything as best I can and leave the pipework as it is

2) bahs out the vent and tile over

3) totally remvoe all the boxing and replace with fresh new stuff and amend
the boxing as required. The other benefit this may throw up is that the
boxing needs only to be half height as the pipes will not need to go up
high.

The drainage for the toilet is outside of the box, and it looks difficult
to adjust it to anything else without professional help

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/26122010007.jpg/

Now the worry with bashing the existing boxing out and making it half
height is that the ceiling and walls will probably not be plastered or
anything.

Also what would be the bext way to box it back in - using wood or
plasterboard?

I suppose I could be fancy and try to hide the cistern behind the boxing
(allowing it to open up) but its probably beyond my skills!

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thought about putting in insulation before you retile?
[g]

In article , says...
Thought about putting in insulation before you retile?


I did that to our bathroom. The wall is wooden framing with ply and then
tile on the outside, plasterboard on the inside. Insulation was present
- 1/2" polystyrene panel thrown loosely between most of the studs - but
not all. Since it was loose, air could circulate freely round it, making
it eff-all good as insulation.

Instead of taking off the tiles when renovating the bathroom, I just
pulled the plasterboard off, stuffed the voids properly and reboarded,
giving myself a much nicer surface to work on, and the opportunity to
fix a few other minor problems at the same time - such as positioning
the grabhandles over the bath better.

As we redecorate the rest of the upstairs we intend to do the same. A
sheet or two of plasterboard is cheap and probably easier than stripping
wallpaper.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 26/12/10 23:18, Skipweasel wrote:
In , says...
Thought about putting in insulation before you retile?


I did that to our bathroom. The wall is wooden framing with ply and then
tile on the outside, plasterboard on the inside. Insulation was present
- 1/2" polystyrene panel thrown loosely between most of the studs - but
not all. Since it was loose, air could circulate freely round it, making
it eff-all good as insulation.

Instead of taking off the tiles when renovating the bathroom, I just
pulled the plasterboard off, stuffed the voids properly and reboarded,
giving myself a much nicer surface to work on, and the opportunity to
fix a few other minor problems at the same time - such as positioning
the grabhandles over the bath better.

As we redecorate the rest of the upstairs we intend to do the same. A
sheet or two of plasterboard is cheap and probably easier than stripping
wallpaper.


http://www.marmox.co.uk/dry-lining-insulation

Tile straight onto it - it's waterproof and the insulation properties
are pretty good. If tiles are not required full height it could be
skimmed too.

The advantage would be it can be dot'n'dabbed onto the existing walls
(with or without stripping any existing PB) so only one layer to apply.

celotex-plasterboard composite is another option, but then you've got PB
back in the equation with all of its susceptabilty to getting wet.

--
Tim Watts

On Dec 26, 11:34 pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On 26/12/10 23:18, Skipweasel wrote:



In , says...
Thought about putting in insulation before you retile?

I did that to our bathroom. The wall is wooden framing with ply and then
tile on the outside, plasterboard on the inside. Insulation was present
- 1/2" polystyrene panel thrown loosely between most of the studs - but
not all. Since it was loose, air could circulate freely round it, making
it eff-all good as insulation.

Instead of taking off the tiles when renovating the bathroom, I just
pulled the plasterboard off, stuffed the voids properly and reboarded,
giving myself a much nicer surface to work on, and the opportunity to
fix a few other minor problems at the same time - such as positioning
the grabhandles over the bath better.

As we redecorate the rest of the upstairs we intend to do the same. A
sheet or two of plasterboard is cheap and probably easier than stripping
wallpaper.

http://www.marmox.co.uk/dry-lining-insulation

Tile straight onto it - it's waterproof and the insulation properties
are pretty good. If tiles are not required full height it could be
skimmed too.

tim - should have asked eons ago - how much is the going rate for that
thickness of marmox? (& how thick we talking?), what size sheets etc?
from the marmox site, Travis Perkins appears to be my nearest (if they
stock it), if not then it's 12 miles to some designer bathroom
shop.....mmmm.....

ta
Jim K

On 27/12/10 09:56, Jim K wrote:
On Dec 26, 11:34 pm, Tim wrote:

tim - should have asked eons ago - how much is the going rate for that
thickness of marmox? (& how thick we talking?), what size sheets etc?
from the marmox site, Travis Perkins appears to be my nearest (if they
stock it), if not then it's 12 miles to some designer bathroom
shop.....mmmm.....

I buy mine from he

http://www.marmox4u.co.uk/

Sheet size is 600x1250mm IIRC

Have a look at the PDFs on www.marmox.co.uk (the manufacturer's site) -
they cover most installation scenarios (screwed, bonded, dot'n'dab).

Also, if you have some case that isn't asnwered there, they have a
technical helpline that is very helpful.


ta
Jim K


--
Tim Watts

On Dec 26, 9:55*pm, mo wrote:

I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how far
I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the services
of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this particular issue.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but hopefulyl
should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones if needed.

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there is a
section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile and so I am
considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet drain..
I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be as directly
below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the pipes outside but
the boxing is smaller.

This box represents to problems for my tiling. First as you can see to the
right off the toothbrushes there is like a weird triangular edge - which
will be difficult to tile around - the same thing is apparent on the other
side where the brooms are (but prob not visible in the picture)

You can see the other problem in this picture - which is taken just above
the toothbrush holder

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

Is this vent, which AFAIK is totally blocked up and serves no purpose. Now
someone told me that if I wnated to I could just bash that bit out and
plaster over it.

So at thos point can I somehow bash that out and replaster? How so? And can
I remove those triangler bits going up the wall?

------------

The other thing is the water feeds. Behind the wall we seem to have 2 water
feeds. At the bottom is the cold water for the taps and bath and at the top
is the one for the toilet. Our toilet use to have the cistern at the top
hence why the water feed comes out there. But now the toilet has been
chnaged I wonder if the feed can be taken from where the cold water comes
out and then go up the wall to the toilet as opposed to going down the
wall.

This is the toilet water feed again

http://img833.imageshack.us/i/26122010001.jpg/

If I did cap it off - I dont think I could cap it off completley so its
hiden in the wall anyway.

This is the cold water supply for the taps, near the floor.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/26122010002.jpg/

So if you lok at this picture again

I could have the cold feed coming around from the bottom as opposed to down
from the top and remove that other bit sticking out of the wall

http://img35.imageshack.us/i/26122010.jpg/

-------

So my optons appear to be

1) just tile over everything as best I can and leave the pipework as it is

2) bahs out the vent and tile over

3) totally remvoe all the boxing and replace with fresh new stuff and amend
the boxing as required. The other benefit this may throw up is that the
boxing needs only to be half height as the pipes will not need to go up
high.

The drainage for the toilet is outside of the box, and it looks difficult
to adjust it to anything else without professional help

http://img443.imageshack.us/i/26122010007.jpg/

Now the worry with bashing the existing boxing out and making it half
height is that the ceiling and walls will probably not be plastered or
anything.

Also what would be the bext way to box it back in - using wood or
plasterboard?

I suppose I could be fancy and try to hide the cistern behind the boxing
(allowing it to open up) but its probably beyond my skills!

Any thoughts appreciated.


triangular muolding strip can be ripped off.
The vent I'd be tempted to replace it with a modern one that looks
better and sits flat, and tile round it.

Don't forget to use waterproof tile adhesive & grout in a bathroom.


NT

Tabby wrote in



triangular muolding strip can be ripped off.
The vent I'd be tempted to replace it with a modern one that looks
better and sits flat, and tile round it.

Don't forget to use waterproof tile adhesive & grout in a bathroom.


NT


the triangular stuff is just 'for show' as opposed to adding stability you
think?


Lets say I break off the vent, what do you think will be behind it?
somesort of pipe that links it to the vent on the wall?

On Dec 26, 11:22*pm, mo wrote:
Tabby wrote in



triangular muolding strip can be ripped off.
The vent I'd be tempted to replace it with a modern one that looks
better and sits flat, and tile round it.

Don't forget to use waterproof tile adhesive & grout in a bathroom.

NT

the triangular stuff is just 'for show' as opposed to adding stability you
think?

yes. even if it did add strength, the tile adhesive will do likewise.
I'd check the boxing though, that its firm to tile onto, no use trying
to tile, quarter inch ply etc.


Lets say I break off the vent, what do you think will be behind it?
somesort of pipe that links it to the vent on the wall?

maybe, maybe not. Does it matter?


NT

On 26/12/2010 21:55, mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.
snipped
Any thoughts appreciated.

I've refurbished 5 bath/shower rooms in my time and I've learned a
little every time I subsequently used them.

I've compiled a list of things that I think are important, in addition
to the normal bathroom necessities of course.

1) Block up the window, thereby reducing condensation and the chance to
introduce substantial insulation in the cavity also build in a duct for fan.
2) Fit sink into a sink unit so that you have a decent flat area to put
your sponge bag etc so that they don't keep falling into sink/ floor/
toilet etc.
3) Introduce a drawer unit to allocate a drawer to each member of the
family so they can keep their nick nacs in their own drawer so don't
clutter up the bathroom.
4) Large mirrors (at least 4ft wide by 3 ft high) are essential to make
the room look bigger and to remind you to lose weight at the earliest
opportunity.
5) Mirror heater to allow a mist free panel (30ins high by 20ins wide)
in the mirror above the sink.
6) Install water softener if applicable.
7) Lots of light from 5ft batten fluorescent lamp.(not these silly down
lighters which follow fashion but little else).
8) White rippled tiles to reflect light ( plain ones look institutional)
add frieze tiles at approx 3ft above floor to break up the expanse of white.
9) make sure the radiator is at least twice the calculated/ required
size ( you can always turn it down). Fan heaters are a no no as the air
movement will cause evaporative cooling on your skin after stepping out
of shower/bath.

I'm sure there are other idiosyncrasies that people prefer,
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Don

mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide how far
I should mess with things.


My advice is strip out everything you can, and go back to bare
brickwork, and remove any studwork that exists in terms of boxing.

I have done my boxing with any old crap - bits of rough chip, or scrap
MDF. Bot take tiles well, and boxing is not generally subjected to much
splashing so water proofness is not a big deal.



You can box in plasterboard, but that needs more structural support.

As far as the vent goes you should actually install and extractor fan
somewhere anyway. Whether that vent is usable in that conctxt, I can't
say.

mo wrote:
I am planning to attempt one of my biggest DIY projects - refitting a
bathroom. I have read up on tiling and am currently reading up on some
basic plumbing.

I need some help with one particular part of the job and to decide
how far I should mess with things.

I plan on doing the plumbing and tiling myself but I may need the
services of a plaster to re-do the ceiling and also for this
particular issue.

I have taken some pics on my mobile - they are not very clear but
hopefulyl should be good enough. I can prob get better quality ones
if needed.

---------

So essentially I am going to rip everything out and re-tile but there
is a section of the room that will have some fiddly parts to retile
and so I am considering ripping it out and replacing to make tiling
easier.

This is a picture of the toilet.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3650/26122010.jpg

As I understand it, there is pipework behind it that has been boxed in
behind plasterwook.

Behind this are the cold water feeds, the waste and also the toilet
drain. I have a feeling the boxing in is bigger than it needs to be
as directly below in the kitchen the same boxing exists to take the
pipes outside but the boxing is smaller.



I wouldn't take all this boxing in away and replace, just take those hideous
triangular sides off and re-box at 90 degrees and tile over.

As far as the vent's concerned, just take it off and tile over it - they
were all the rage when eveyone had coal fires, nowadays they are just an
eyesore - get an extractor fan and install that prior to any plasterwork.

Re= the ceiling, I wouldn't bother plastering it, I'd clad it in upvc
panels, about half the price of having it plastered





--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On 28/12/2010 18:06, Phil L wrote:
snipped
Re= the ceiling, I wouldn't bother plastering it, I'd clad it in upvc
panels, about half the price of having it plastered

I'm interested in your idea of upvc cladding for ceilings. I have certain areas in the house that could do with having the ceiling redone/recovered but not the mess involved with re plastering.

How would you fix the panels up there? and is there a fire risk using upvc panels?

Cheers
Don

Donwill wrote:
On 28/12/2010 18:06, Phil L wrote:
snipped
Re= the ceiling, I wouldn't bother plastering it, I'd clad it in upvc
panels, about half the price of having it plastered

I'm interested in your idea of upvc cladding for ceilings. I have
certain areas in the house that could do with having the ceiling
redone/recovered but not the mess involved with re plastering.
How would you fix the panels up there? and is there a fire risk using
upvc panels?
Cheers
Don

I used upvc coverboard in my kitchen, looks quite fetching :-)
The panels are 300mm wide and 5m long and were about £8 each - one board
covered 2ft of ceiling as it was just less than 2.5 in width, so an eighteen
foot long kitchen took 8 boards = 64 quid, plus about 4 tubes of caulking to
stick them on ( each one was nailed along the tongue and a generous couple
of beads of caulking to hold it firm) they've been up about 10 months now
and there's no discolouration, warping or anything else.
My bathroom walls are done in them too around the shower area nad these are
stuck over old tiles with silicone, the other two walls are painted lining
paper, total cost for bathroom, about £70.

Not arsed about any fire risk - by the time the ceiling gets hot enough to
melt, I'll either be dead or outside watching the spectacle.

You can buy high-gloss and also multi-coloured upvc panels, but I don't like
these, plus they cost about 10 times as much per m2

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On 12/29/2010 5:01 PM, Phil L wrote:
Donwill wrote:

On 28/12/2010 18:06, Phil L wrote:

snipped
Re= the ceiling, I wouldn't bother plastering it, I'd clad it in upvc
panels, about half the price of having it plastered


I'm interested in your idea of upvc cladding for ceilings. I have
certain areas in the house that could do with having the ceiling
redone/recovered but not the mess involved with re plastering.
How would you fix the panels up there? and is there a fire risk using
upvc panels?
Cheers
Don

I used upvc coverboard in my kitchen, looks quite fetching :-)
The panels are 300mm wide and 5m long and were about £8 each - one board
covered 2ft of ceiling as it was just less than 2.5 in width, so an eighteen
foot long kitchen took 8 boards = 64 quid, plus about 4 tubes of caulking to
When you say caulking, what type of caulking are you referring to?
Don

stick them on ( each one was nailed along the tongue and a generous couple
of beads of caulking to hold it firm) they've been up about 10 months now
and there's no discolouration, warping or anything else.
My bathroom walls are done in them too around the shower area nad these are
stuck over old tiles with silicone, the other two walls are painted lining
paper, total cost for bathroom, about £70.

Not arsed about any fire risk - by the time the ceiling gets hot enough to
melt, I'll either be dead or outside watching the spectacle.

You can buy high-gloss and also multi-coloured upvc panels, but I don't like
these, plus they cost about 10 times as much per m2