I bought this drill...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/...-Accessory-Kit

(but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)



I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the
drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was
using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't
go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill
setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.

On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a
cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between
the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my
old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.

Is this new drill faulty, or is it a design fault, or is it just crap?
It's possible, when changing gears or direction, to get the clutch
stuck "open", but that's not what I'm talking about here. Even when it
seems to be engaged, it doesn't seem to be as strong as I'd like.


The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a
few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit
through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the
cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping
completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS).
I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly
charged one only improved things for a few seconds.

Cheers,
David.

On Nov 22, 2:10 pm, David Robinson
wrote:
I bought this drill...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/...s-Drills/Makit...

(but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)

I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the
drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was
using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't
go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill
setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.

On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a
cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between
the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my
old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.

Is this new drill faulty, or is it a design fault, or is it just crap?
It's possible, when changing gears or direction, to get the clutch
stuck "open", but that's not what I'm talking about here. Even when it
seems to be engaged, it doesn't seem to be as strong as I'd like.

The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a
few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit
through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the
cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping
completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS).
I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly
charged one only improved things for a few seconds.

Cheers,
David.

suspect a 15mm masonry bit was pushing the envelope for a 18v
combi !!!

similarly re torque settings - remember they are designed for screwing
*screws* without snapping them - your hex head bolt sounds somewhat
more "torque hungry" than a woodscrew?;)

You could try it with a mains drill - and prepare yourself for the
snapping sensation and the fun of extracting the broken bolt out so
you can have another go....

perhaps lower your expectations a bit for £100 & battery power?

Jim K

On Nov 22, 2:10*pm, David Robinson
wrote:

I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
with my hand.

It certainly doesn't sound right. On my Bosch 24v cordless, of similar
price, there's no way you could slip the clutch with your hand on the
highest setting.

That probably doesn't help you directly but it may add some support
for your expectations not being unreasonable.

Mathew

David wrote...
On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_ torque
setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
chuck with my hand.

That is broken or at least not good enough, or you may have it on the
highest speed which allows momentum to build to overrun the clutch.
For screwdriving you should use speed #1 (at least for plasterboard,
cement board, rubbishy pine).

I have a Makita 14.4V 6337D.
I actually bought the body (£32), NiMH battery (£40), multi-charger
(£19) as odds-n-sods on Ebay as I disposed of other stuff. It is a
Marathon motor drill which does mean it has very torque, and uses NiMH
(or NiCad) batteries. It is a 2-speed drill and not a combi drill like
the MXT Combi which is about £45-55 for the body even on Ebay (and
heavier).

Set to screws, gearbox speed 1.
With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving
your wrist a good snatch.
With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.

The downside is under part-speed, very high resistance, the speed
control can smoke and fail. I suspect that may be the run-in NiMH
battery. So I have a "no speed control" for brickwork and a "do not
abuse" for precise (cough!) woodwork. Makita would not entertain the
warranty because I had bought on Ebay, no point shipping it around and
just bought a replacement 6337D body for £27 delivered in the
recession.

Now, when I tried 12V non-marathon & 14.4V non-marathon with NiCad I
did find them weedy - even compared to an old 9.6V NiCad which I
suspect re 1998-2000 had a "marathon motor or its equivalent back
them".

Batteries do take time to run-in and achieve a full charge, but I find
1.3Ah is that bit too small - 1.5Ah is noticeably better in that you
can actually finish a job without finding the thing grinds to a halt.
On the NiMH you have almost consistent fresh-charge power until the
last 20secs, it really is that good. The downside is the self
discharge is pretty dire.

If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional
masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for
masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS
drills (£200+).

On 22/11/2010 14:10, David Robinson wrote:
I bought this drill...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/...-Accessory-Kit

(but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)



I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the
drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was
using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't
go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill
setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.

On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a
cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between
the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my
old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.

Is this new drill faulty, or is it a design fault, or is it just crap?
It's possible, when changing gears or direction, to get the clutch
stuck "open", but that's not what I'm talking about here. Even when it
seems to be engaged, it doesn't seem to be as strong as I'd like.


The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a
few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit
through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the
cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping
completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS).
I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly
charged one only improved things for a few seconds.

Cheers,
David.

I've one two of these
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...&product=36503
and there's no way you can stop the chuck turning when the torque
setting is set to maximum.

On Nov 22, 2:44*pm, "js.b1" wrote:
David wrote...
On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_ torque
setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
chuck with my hand.

That is broken or at least not good enough, or you may have it on the
highest speed which allows momentum to build to overrun the clutch.
For screwdriving you should use speed #1 (at least for plasterboard,
cement board, rubbishy pine).

Yes, it was on 1. It didn't make much difference (except when the
clutch didn't engage at all and it slipped completely).

I have a Makita 14.4V 6337D.
I actually bought the body (£32), NiMH battery (£40), multi-charger
(£19) as odds-n-sods on Ebay as I disposed of other stuff. It is a
Marathon motor drill which does mean it has very torque, and uses NiMH
(or NiCad) batteries. It is a 2-speed drill and not a combi drill like
the MXT Combi which is about £45-55 for the body even on Ebay (and
heavier).

Set to screws, gearbox speed 1.
With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving
your wrist a good snatch.
With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.

This is what I would expect!

I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
it's just that some took more effort than others. ????

He asked what I was trying to do. I said 3" No. 10 screws into 4x2
(which I've tried, and it gives up). He said drill a proper pilot
hole.

He pointed out that this only has 40Nm of torque, while the better
model has 80Nm. But this is torque in drill mode - he couldn't say if
it made any difference to the max torque in screw driver mode. He
seemed to think I was a bit mad switching to drill mode to finish off
the screw driving - me too, but I've rarely needed to before!


I was thinking that maybe I'd keep the cordless as a glorified screw
driver, and get a mains drill for heavier jobs - but this one doesn't
work as a glorified screw driver, so I think it's going to have to go
back. :-(


btw, I really liked the keyless chuck. Far more convenient than any
keyed chuck I've had, and it didn't slip - whereas a keyed chuck did
in the same circumstances (though due to the lack of power the keyless
didn't get thrashed as much, so it's not a totally fair comparison).


If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional
masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for
masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS
drills (£200+).

I think you're right - though there are times when a normal hammer
drill seems like the right thing to use and SDS seems like overkill.

Cheers,
David.

I've one two of these
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...&product=36503
and there's no way you can stop the chuck turning when the torque setting
is set to maximum.

Never realised Makita was made in the UK until I saw that ad....

David Robinson wrote:
On Nov 22, 2:44 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.

This is what I would expect!

I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department
claimed that he could stop all their tools with his hand in
screwdriver mode - it's just that some took more effort than
others.

Send it back, it's broken.

Mathew Newton wrote:
On Nov 22, 2:10 pm, David Robinson
wrote:

I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
chuck with my hand.

It certainly doesn't sound right. On my Bosch 24v cordless, of similar
price, there's no way you could slip the clutch with your hand on the
highest setting.

That probably doesn't help you directly but it may add some support
for your expectations not being unreasonable.

My 14.4v Makita couldn't be stopped on the highest torque setting - no way -
unless the battery is flat.

Are you sure the batteries are charged properly? Sometimes with Makita
chargers, if you insert a flatish battery the green light remains on & it
won't charge. Unplug charger, remove battery, plug back in, insert battery
& check the red light comes on.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John Rumm wrote:
On 22/11/2010 14:10, David Robinson wrote:

I bought this drill...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/...-Accessory-Kit

(but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)



I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
chuck with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect
(i.e. the

Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on my Makita 8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug
though at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw
into softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of the
clutch on the highest setting.

drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap

Nope, in drill or hammer mode it will twist your wrist off instead!

Thinking about it, I only really use my 14.4v Mak in either drill or hammer
mode. I never really use the torque settings, the almost instant motor stop
& using the drill in 'bursts' works for me.

I also have a Makita DF010DSE Pencil Drill Driver which has 21 torque
settings where the motor actually 'stops' at the required setting. Use that
mainly for smaller screws, flat pack assembly etc. The torque settings are
so precise you can do up screws into plastic back boxes without cracking the
plastic.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Nov 22, 10:59*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/11/2010 17:14, David Robinson wrote:

I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
it's just that some took more effort than others. *????

Well having just managed it on the top of the range (as was) 18V
marathon motor combi, I would expect he is right.

(if you think about how much torque you could apply with a screwdriver
with a handle the size of the chuck on your drill, its going to be
fairly substantial. So I would be surprised if you couldn't get pretty
much any screwdriving clutch to slip (although don't try on a core drill
clutch!))

It's interesting the different answers I've got on this in the thread.
I suppose it depends on your grip, whether you wear gloves, and the
friction on the surface of the chuck. And, of course, the clutch
itself.

I'll try some different sized screws straight into some 4x2 with no
pilot hole. Usually I'd use a pilot hole (but not for the full length
of the screw). The feeling I get is that I have higher torque settings
on the old Focus(!) no-name combi I've borrowed - which seem
ridiculous, except, as you say, maybe I've been mis-using it...

I get the feeling you might be expecting the clutch to do a slightly
different job from what its intended to do. Its main virtue IME is in
repeatable setting of smaller screws (say 1.5") to consistent depth
quickly without worrying about over driving.



If you want something just for screw driving, then an impact driver
would be another option. The 18V version will stick out over 150 Nm of
torque! Either the screw goes in or something breaks (usually the
screwdriving bit!)

I guess that would get 3" screws in no problem?


The trick I used with the Focus drill was to do them all on max torque
setting, which got them all but the last 3-5mm in, and then go back
using the drill setting when the battery was getting a bit flat. They
went all the way in and then the motor stopped with breaking anything.
Obviously the right tool would have been better!


Perhaps it depends on the jobs you do, but I find almost zero use for my
mains "hammer" drills these days. I find the combi does pretty much
everything apart from big deep holes in masonry, where the SDS comes
out. (although my combi is the 80Nm one IIRC)

Yep, that's my dilemma - keep this one and resort to the SDS sooner,
get something like this pair...
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...&product=94367
....and maybe a mains drill, or get one of the far better (and
expensive) ones like yours...
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...&product=36503

To think this time last year I was happy with my 20 year old Black and
Decker mains drill. That was before I had an SDS and borrowed a
cordless. Now I realise the old adage "a bad workman blames his tools"
is crap - while a good workman can probably do the job with almost
anything, decent tools make a job 10x easier and sometimes 50x
quicker!

Cheers,
David.

On Nov 22, 10:06*pm, John Rumm wrote:

Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
the highest setting.

Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
clutch slipped.

I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
snapping, every time.

I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!

Cheers,
David.

On Dec 6, 8:39 pm, David Robinson
wrote:
On Nov 22, 10:06 pm, John Rumm wrote:

Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
the highest setting.

Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
clutch slipped.

I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
snapping, every time.

I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!

can;t you just learn to use the drill setting, on low speed and judge
it manually?

Expecting any tool (never mind powertools) to operate "the same" as
others is asking a little much IMHO

Does your supplier operate a "no quibble" returns policy? if not have
you thought how you are going to justify your return?

Jim K

On Dec 6, 11:36*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/12/2010 21:13, Jim K wrote:



On Dec 6, 8:39 pm, David
wrote:
On Nov 22, 10:06 pm, John *wrote:

Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
the highest setting.

Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
clutchslipped.

I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
snapping, every time.

I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!

can;t you just learn to use thedrillsetting, on low speed and judge
it manually?

Expecting any tool (never mind powertools) to operate "the same" as
others is asking a little much IMHO

Does your supplier operate a "no quibble" returns policy? if not have
you thought how you are going to justify your return?

Yup to be fair it does not sound as if the OPsclutchperforms that
differently from the one on mine, and I feel the one on mine works very
well. I may be wrong, but I think this is just a difference of
expectation. Personally I would only want to use theclutchfor smaller
fixings where overdriving is a real possibility and you want quick
repeatability. A good example might be sticking loads of 1.25" screws
into 9mm ply as a floorboard covering prior to tiling etc. For a 2"
screw or above I can't really see any value.

John,

I've seen enough of your posts on here to realise that you're almost
certainly right! :-(

With the 12g 4" screws, I was using the drill setting and proceeding
slowly and carefully, because I've always found that to be beyond the
ability of a clutch (sensibly so!).

However, whether I've been spoilt or lucky with these two other drills
or not, there was certainly "value" in switching back to the focus DIY
cheapie yesterday for driving those 2.5" screws - it made the job 5x
faster (no need to be careful, or even to think!), and 5x better (not
a single screw head damaged). A faster and better job - the very
definition of quick repeatability.

Now that I recognise that what I'm expecting may be a little
unusual(!), I think I'll have to resort to try-before-I-buy for the
replacement.

Cheers,
David.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 12:39:01 -0800 (PST), David Robinson wrote:

On Nov 22, 10:06*pm, John Rumm wrote:

Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
the highest setting.

Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
clutch slipped.

I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
snapping, every time.

I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!

Cheers,
David.

I recalled this thread t'other day when I was using a 12V Makita drill. The
job was re-laying chipboard flooring in the loft, starting the screw
manually to pick up the existing thread in the chipboard and, with care, the
thread in the joist. One or two missed the hole in the joist but the drill
still drove them in.
The screws are ordinary Goldscrew, 60mmx5mm, so quite big for a 12V drill.
For just driving them into the same holes, setting was 14; 16 managed the
new thread.

Does look as if yours isn't up to spec. - or I need to complain about mine!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway