I think I'm missing something!

I'm hanging some brass rising butt hinges for a non door use. The
anchors (75mm) ones are going through the 2mm brass, 10mm wood, then
into poor plaster (1930-30's), then solid block.

My technique(!) is drill, vacuum out the holes (with straws, to get
them clear), offer up the hinges with the Anchors pre threaded, fit
them in the holes with light panel pin-type taps of a hammer. When I
go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly. I think that the wedge
is spinning with the bolt rather than riding up to fix the wedge. I
can tighten the bolt all day, and its just spinning. This happens me
about 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 tighten as I'd expect, and give a
great solid fixing.

The wedges on these don't have 'fins', like some heavier duty ones
I've used before (~14mm outer rather than these which are 8mm hole, M6
bolt).

So... anyone got any tips for preventing this, or should I just bin my
2x 50 boxes of FSA ones, and buy something with a serration on the
'wedge'?

thanks,
Michael.

Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
I think I'm missing something!

I'm hanging some brass rising butt hinges for a non door use. The
anchors (75mm) ones are going through the 2mm brass, 10mm wood, then
into poor plaster (1930-30's), then solid block.

My technique(!) is drill, vacuum out the holes (with straws, to get
them clear), offer up the hinges with the Anchors pre threaded, fit
them in the holes with light panel pin-type taps of a hammer. When I
go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly. I think that the wedge
is spinning with the bolt rather than riding up to fix the wedge. I
can tighten the bolt all day, and its just spinning. This happens me
about 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 tighten as I'd expect, and give a
great solid fixing.

The wedges on these don't have 'fins', like some heavier duty ones
I've used before (~14mm outer rather than these which are 8mm hole, M6
bolt).

So... anyone got any tips for preventing this, or should I just bin my
2x 50 boxes of FSA ones, and buy something with a serration on the
'wedge'?

I've had a similar problem before. Assuming we are both talking about the
same thing
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13190/...KQKCSTHZOCFEY#

The trick is to get a pry bar or similar between the washer & the nut & pull
the bolt out slightly so it expands the sleeve.

Don't know if that will work in your application. Failing that No Nails
might hold the sleeve long enough for the bolt to expand it.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
I think I'm missing something!

I'm hanging some brass rising butt hinges for a non door use. The
anchors (75mm) ones are going through the 2mm brass, 10mm wood, then
into poor plaster (1930-30's), then solid block.

My technique(!) is drill, vacuum out the holes (with straws, to get
them clear), offer up the hinges with the Anchors pre threaded, fit
them in the holes with light panel pin-type taps of a hammer. When I
go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly. I think that the wedge
is spinning with the bolt rather than riding up to fix the wedge. I
can tighten the bolt all day, and its just spinning. This happens me
about 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 tighten as I'd expect, and give a
great solid fixing.

The wedges on these don't have 'fins', like some heavier duty ones
I've used before (~14mm outer rather than these which are 8mm hole, M6
bolt).

So... anyone got any tips for preventing this, or should I just bin my
2x 50 boxes of FSA ones, and buy something with a serration on the
'wedge'?

thanks,
Michael.

I wouldn't throw away Fischer fixings. They're expensive enough as it is!

Dave Osborne wrote:
Michael Murray (HotM) wrote:
I think I'm missing something!

I'm hanging some brass rising butt hinges for a non door use. The
anchors (75mm) ones are going through the 2mm brass, 10mm wood, then
into poor plaster (1930-30's), then solid block.

My technique(!) is drill, vacuum out the holes (with straws, to get
them clear), offer up the hinges with the Anchors pre threaded, fit
them in the holes with light panel pin-type taps of a hammer. When I
go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly. I think that the wedge
is spinning with the bolt rather than riding up to fix the wedge. I
can tighten the bolt all day, and its just spinning. This happens me
about 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 tighten as I'd expect, and give a
great solid fixing.

The wedges on these don't have 'fins', like some heavier duty ones
I've used before (~14mm outer rather than these which are 8mm hole, M6
bolt).

So... anyone got any tips for preventing this, or should I just bin my
2x 50 boxes of FSA ones, and buy something with a serration on the
'wedge'?

thanks,
Michael.

I wouldn't throw away Fischer fixings. They're expensive enough as it is!

Sorry, forgot the :-)

...When I go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly...

That's one of the reasons I switched to using multimonti in place of
sleeve anchors.

The problem you describe does seem to occur in mixed/old material, and
much less in clean, hard masonry.

Only tricks I've found are drilling quickly and smoothly with an sds
(so getting a more consistent hole diameter & shape right the way
through), and "presetting" the sleeve a bit so it's just about to
bite, before working it into the hole.

On 30 Oct, 14:13, " wrote:
...When I go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly...

That's one of the reasons I switched to using multimonti in place of
sleeve anchors.

The problem you describe does seem to occur in mixed/old material, and
much less in clean, hard masonry.

Only tricks I've found are drilling quickly and smoothly with an sds
(so getting a more consistent hole diameter & shape right the way
through), and "presetting" the sleeve a bit so it's just about to
bite, before working it into the hole.

Thanks to all for advice so far... may try some blu-tack in the next
install...

Should have said - I have SDS, and the holes are not oversized, or at
least not badly so !

I don't think the sleeve is slipping, just the 'cone' bit.

(I also now have the problem that the drilling is setting off the
linked fire alarms, so work suspended for today !)

Michael.

On 30 Oct, 14:44, "Michael Murray (HotM)"
wrote:
On 30 Oct, 14:13, " wrote:

...When I go to tighten them, they don't 'bite' properly...

That's one of the reasons I switched to using multimonti in place of
sleeve anchors.

The problem you describe does seem to occur in mixed/old material, and
much less in clean, hard masonry.

Only tricks I've found are drilling quickly and smoothly with an sds
(so getting a more consistent hole diameter & shape right the way
through), and "presetting" the sleeve a bit so it's just about to
bite, before working it into the hole.

Thanks to all for advice so far... may try some blu-tack in the next
install...

Should have said - I have SDS, and the holes are not oversized, or at
least not badly so !

I don't think the sleeve is slipping, just the 'cone' bit.

(I also now have the problem that the drilling is setting off the
linked fire alarms, so work suspended for today !)

Michael.

You need to tape the heads up. The dust can permanently bugger them
up.
Don't forget to untape them at night.

thanks - that's done it - seems like they could mention that in the
instructions though, since it seems to be required in the majority of
cases.

I've also succeeded well by blu-tack-ing the cone to the sleeve, but
you have to watch not to get any on the threads, or it makes the
situation worse.

I feel a little better that its not just me being an idiot now though.

thanks again to all,
Michael.

I think you also may be being a bit too thorough - I find that if you
don't vacuum out the holes, the grit in the hole grips the wedge well
enough to start them.

A

Fine until you leave too much in there, and you can't get the fitting
"bottomed" properly. And then of course it sticks!