I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial bristles
or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid them, since the
ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles whilst using them.

Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so what one
is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy cloth type
roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

On 14 Aug, 13:32, "john hamilton" wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial bristles
or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid them, since the
ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles whilst using them.

Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so what one
is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy cloth type
roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

use aerosols?
Jim K

I use the purdy china bristle brushes with good results when using poly.
A pad works well too. . Your choice.
I wouldn't put anything over formica... The plastic laminate doesn't
take to many finishes. The bond needs to be chemical, not mechanical.

On 8/14/2010 8:32 AM, john hamilton wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial bristles
or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid them, since the
ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles whilst using them.

Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so what one
is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy cloth type
roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:32:36 +0100, "john hamilton"
wrote:


I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.


I'd try to thin with mineral spirits. And brush onto a test piece
first. Most varnishes, poly or alkyd, need thinning out of the can.

The matte finish means there is an additive that reduces the sheen. It
is generally a very fine silica (think very fine sand). That's why you
have to stir the satin or matte poly before applying, because the
silica will settle to the bottom of the can. The matte effect happens
when the fine particles at the surface of the poly scatter light
bouncing off it.

In short, that matte finish won't affect the brush marks one way or
the other.

Jim

On 14/08/2010 17:48, Jim Weisgram wrote:
On 14/08/2010 17:48, Jim Weisgram wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:32:36 +0100, "john hamilton"
wrote:


I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.


I'd try to thin with mineral spirits. And brush onto a test piece
first. Most varnishes, poly or alkyd, need thinning out of the can.

The matte finish means there is an additive that reduces the sheen. It
is generally a very fine silica (think very fine sand). That's why you
have to stir the satin or matte poly before applying, because the
silica will settle to the bottom of the can. The matte effect happens
when the fine particles at the surface of the poly scatter light
bouncing off it.

In short, that matte finish won't affect the brush marks one way or
the other.

Jim

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:32:36 +0100, "john hamilton"
wrote:


I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.


I'd try to thin with mineral spirits. And brush onto a test piece
first. Most varnishes, poly or alkyd, need thinning out of the can.

The matte finish means there is an additive that reduces the sheen. It
is generally a very fine silica (think very fine sand). That's why you
have to stir the satin or matte poly before applying, because the
silica will settle to the bottom of the can. The matte effect happens
when the fine particles at the surface of the poly scatter light
bouncing off it.

In short, that matte finish won't affect the brush marks one way or
the other.

Jim

I apply it very sparingly with a rag. You can do several thin coats in
succession that way without waiting for the previous one to dry

On 14 Aug, 13:32, "john hamilton" wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane with
the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to me
how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial bristles
or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid them, since the
ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles whilst using them.

Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so what one
is best to get please? *Also would a sponge roller or hairy cloth type
roller be a better way to go? *Thanks for any advice.

Are you rubbing it down between coats? You can also flat off the final
coat with 120 grit paper.

Cheers
Richard

"john hamilton" wrote in
:

*snip*


Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

I've gotten good results with using paint pads. I cut up old shorts and
folded the pieces over to make the pads.

I've only tried this with the gloss poly, so as always test on scrap
first and see how you like the results.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On 15/08/2010 00:22, Puckdropper wrote:
"john wrote in
:

*snip*


Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

I've gotten good results with using paint pads. I cut up old shorts and
folded the pieces over to make the pads.

Then you are well on the way to reinventing the french polish "rubber"
:-), which IME is the only way to get a really smooth finish on
anything. Traditionally used for shellac based finishes, but works well
with paint and varnish too.


I've only tried this with the gloss poly, so as always test on scrap
first and see how you like the results.

Puckdropper

"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:4QM9o.24037$Nn4.15634@hurricane...
On 15/08/2010 00:22, Puckdropper wrote:
"john wrote in
:

*snip*


Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

I've gotten good results with using paint pads. I cut up old shorts and
folded the pieces over to make the pads.

Then you are well on the way to reinventing the french polish "rubber"
:-), which IME is the only way to get a really smooth finish on anything.
Traditionally used for shellac based finishes, but works well with paint
and varnish too.


Perhaps not, paint pads are not like pads for applying shellac or rubbing
out a finish. Paint pads typically hold and release a lot of paint.

john hamilton wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough
polyurethane with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best
quality bristle brush.
I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising
to me how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's
a matt finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial
bristles or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid
them, since the ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles
whilst using them.
Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

Faced with the situation you have, I would not apply any varnish to the
surface. (I have to say that I would not have done what you did.)

My thoughts would be to apply either furniture or car polish and re apply as
necessary. I cannot believe that any varnish will "grab hold" to the Formica
for more than a short while.

I could be mistaken and am willing to learn!

On 15/08/2010 00:39, Clot wrote:
john hamilton wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough
polyurethane with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best
quality bristle brush.
I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising
to me how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's
a matt finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial
bristles or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid
them, since the ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles
whilst using them.
Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

Faced with the situation you have, I would not apply any varnish to the
surface. (I have to say that I would not have done what you did.)

My thoughts would be to apply either furniture or car polish and re apply as
necessary. I cannot believe that any varnish will "grab hold" to the Formica
for more than a short while.

And yet paint sticks to glass. If anything, more reliably than it does
to wood

I could be mistaken and am willing to learn!

"stuart noble" wrote in message
news:YDM9o.24011$Nn4.12208@hurricane...
On 15/08/2010 00:39, Clot wrote:
john hamilton wrote:
I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough
polyurethane with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best
quality bristle brush.
I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising
to me how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's
a matt finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial
bristles or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid
them, since the ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles
whilst using them.
Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so
what one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy
cloth type roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.

Faced with the situation you have, I would not apply any varnish to the
surface. (I have to say that I would not have done what you did.)

My thoughts would be to apply either furniture or car polish and re apply
as
necessary. I cannot believe that any varnish will "grab hold" to the
Formica
for more than a short while.

And yet paint sticks to glass. If anything, more reliably than it does to
wood

And as formica is basically varnish and paper, one would have thought them
to be fairly compatible.

S

I could be mistaken and am willing to learn!

"john hamilton" wrote

I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane
with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

Try thinning out the stuff with a little Japan Oil. Works good on a flat
surface, to make it flow out any brush marks. Either that, or a little
thinner, but you will have to wait for it to set longer.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"john hamilton" wrote

I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane
with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle
brush.

Try thinning out the stuff with a little Japan Oil. Works good on a flat
surface, to make it flow out any brush marks. Either that, or a little
thinner, but you will have to wait for it to set longer.
--
Jim in NC


That's the idea: brush marks implies it is drying before it gets the chance
to flow out. On a hot day you may need quite a lot of thinner.

S

On 15 Aug, 00:45, "Morgans" wrote:
"john hamilton" wrote

I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane
with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

*Try thinning out the stuff with a little Japan Oil. *Works good on a flat
surface, to make it flow out any brush marks. *Either that, or a little
thinner, but you will have to wait for it to set longer.
--
Jim in NC

"Japan Oil" ? - Mr Google's not helping me on this. I've been a long
time in DIY and I've never heard of it. Can you give a bit more info
please.

Rob

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug, 00:45, "Morgans" wrote:
"john hamilton" wrote

I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane
with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle
brush.

Try thinning out the stuff with a little Japan Oil. Works good on a
flat
surface, to make it flow out any brush marks. Either that, or a little
thinner, but you will have to wait for it to set longer.
--
Jim in NC

"Japan Oil" ? - Mr Google's not helping me on this. I've been a long
time in DIY and I've never heard of it. Can you give a bit more info
please.

Rob

I wonder if he meant Japan Drier?
Grumbacher Japan Drier An oil painting medium that speeds drying, improves
flow, and increases gloss. Add directly to color in small amounts. Color
should not be thinned beyond a soft free brushing consistency. Adding too
much Japan drier to your oils can cause them to crack as they dry! More Info

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

I wonder if he meant Japan Drier?
Grumbacher Japan Drier An oil painting medium that speeds drying, improves
flow, and increases gloss. Add directly to color in small amounts. Color
should not be thinned beyond a soft free brushing consistency. Adding too
much Japan drier to your oils can cause them to crack as they dry! More
Info

Yep.

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...

I'm painting a Formica table top with Ronseal ultra tough polyurethane
with the *matt* finish . I'm using an old, but best quality bristle brush.

I'm not the very worse at wielding a paint brush, but it's surprising to
me how many brush marks are still remaining, especially since it's a matt
finish.

Would I be better using one of the Chinese brushes (with artificial
bristles or the 'natural' very *thin* bristles)? I normally avoid them,
since the ones I've used before have shed a lot of the bristles whilst
using them.

Would I get any better looking results by using a paint pad? If so what
one is best to get please? Also would a sponge roller or hairy cloth type
roller be a better way to go? Thanks for any advice.


Artificial brushes are useless. Like nylon sheets they are nasty slippery
things that give little control.

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap set of
flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book and
stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent widths, and
with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some of them have the
odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark free finishes with
them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they are almost cost free.

S

"Spamlet" wrote

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap set
of flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book and
stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent widths, and
with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some of them have
the odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark free finishes
with them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they are almost cost
free.

I wanna' make sure I read this right; these sable brushes will clean up
with water, when using spirits based (non water based) finishes?

Really?

I gotta' find out what finishes will qualify for this ability, and what
these brushes are, if that is indeed the case.

More information, please?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Spamlet" wrote

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap set
of flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book and
stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent widths, and
with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some of them have
the odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark free finishes
with them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they are almost cost
free.

I wanna' make sure I read this right; these sable brushes will clean up
with water, when using spirits based (non water based) finishes?

Really?

No, not really, natural hair brushes go limp when used with water based
products, in my experience and as you suspect water does not wash out oil
based finishes.


And concerning artificial brushes, different strokes for different fokes. I
never use natural brissle brushes and I would be willing to compare finish
results to what would be considered a good spray finish. Its all about
knowing what you are doing. Contrairy to popular belief I get glass smooth
with General Finishes oil based finishes and the recomended "foam brushes",
a quality foam brush however, I use Wooster foam brushes.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Spamlet" wrote

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap set
of flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book and
stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent widths,
and with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some of them
have the odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark free
finishes with them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they are
almost cost free.

I wanna' make sure I read this right; these sable brushes will clean up
with water, when using spirits based (non water based) finishes?

Really?

No, not really, natural hair brushes go limp when used with water based
products, in my experience and as you suspect water does not wash out oil
based finishes.

Read the tin: seems like you have not done much varnishing lately!

S


And concerning artificial brushes, different strokes for different fokes.
I never use natural brissle brushes and I would be willing to compare
finish results to what would be considered a good spray finish. Its all
about knowing what you are doing. Contrairy to popular belief I get glass
smooth with General Finishes oil based finishes and the recomended "foam
brushes", a quality foam brush however, I use Wooster foam brushes.

"Spamlet" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Spamlet" wrote

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap
set of flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book
and stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent
widths, and with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some
of them have the odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark
free finishes with them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they
are almost cost free.

I wanna' make sure I read this right; these sable brushes will clean up
with water, when using spirits based (non water based) finishes?

Really?

No, not really, natural hair brushes go limp when used with water based
products, in my experience and as you suspect water does not wash out oil
based finishes.

Read the tin: seems like you have not done much varnishing lately!


I read the lable that you provided in your post below, it is a water based
finish. The reason to not use steel wool is to prevent rust stains from the
water based finish.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Spamlet" wrote

I solved the varnish/laquer problem when I saw a frighteningly cheap set
of flat 'sable' (very fine hair) brushes in the Works cheapo book and
stationery shop. For a couple of quid you get several decent widths, and
with the modern varnishes they wash out in water too. Some of them have
the odd loose hair, but I've achieved very good brushmark free finishes
with them, and compared with 'the proper' brushes, they are almost cost
free.

I wanna' make sure I read this right; these sable brushes will clean up
with water, when using spirits based (non water based) finishes?

Really?

I gotta' find out what finishes will qualify for this ability, and what
these brushes are, if that is indeed the case.

More information, please?
--
Jim in NC

It has nothing to do with the brushes: I just mentioned that as one of the
wonders of modern varnishes.
http://ronseal.s3.amazonaws.com/docu...sh_750_BoP.pdf

(I agree with what it says on the tine except where it says use a synthetic
filament brush: I bought a 'special' looking teflon fine filament brush and
it just left trails of bubbles everywhere.)

I don't know if they are all like it these days, but at least some of the
Ronseals I've used do wash out pretty well with water: they look kind of
cloudy in the tin but dry clear - and I generally go for the 'diamond hard'
and find it excellent: and a little goes a long way so it is not as
expensive as it seems. They do tend to drip, so the finer the layer you
apply the better, and that is where these thin sectioned artists brushes
come into their own. (It is a year or so since I last did any varnishing -
though there is still plenty needs doing! - so I didn't stick my neck out
here to say whether I thinned my last lot with white spirit or water.).

Incidentally I've also used the same brushes with very thinned gloss paint
to get a smooth finish on the fiddly bits of window frames too..

S