On 30 July, 09:31, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In message , BruceB
writes

....

Regularly tested in the small claims court. *Companies seem reluctant to go
there , but here are a couple of examples that went the parking company's
way:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/ne...st-judge-rules

http://www.shropshirestar.com/latest...arking-wrangle

In both of these cases, the drivers claimed not to have seen the parking
notices. I have no idea whether this is true or not but, these days, it
is unwise to expect there NOT to be such notices, and these should be
sought out and checked every time you use the car park. You never know.
The conditions might have been sneakily changed since the last time you
were there.

However, it does seem that parking notices tend to be mounted well out
of the natural line of vision. They are usually 10 to 12 feet up, on
poles. I'm not surprised that some shoppers miss them (I often do,
unless I go looking for them). To avoid all doubt, the law should
require the entrance to all of these car parks to have displayed an 'in
your face' notice which simply states something like "Parking
Restrictions In Force - See Notices". It would then be up to the driver
to find a notice, and read the terms and conditions.

Valid point. I presume the signs are present but if there is to be a
parking fine/charge/penalty, whatever it should be called, IMHO the
law should require that they customers cannot miss them.

In fact here's a Google streetview photo of about as close to the
entrance as I can get. The B&Q entrance is where the yellow van is
exiting and a small dark blue or black car is entering.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...,95.73,,0,2.33

There's no barrier at the entrance, no obvious cameras, and no obvious
sign that I can see on the Google photo. Also, when I told a friend
what had happened he was surprised and said he'd never noticed parking-
charge signs at the store either.

Of course, in the interests of balance I should say things may have
changed at the store recently and the Google photo may be too old to
show new signage. At any rate I noticed nothing to say there was
either a time limit or a charge for an overstay.

I wonder how many other people have been caught out by this. It seems
more like a trap than any kind of entering in to a contract.

James

On 04/08/2010 12:11, James Harris wrote:
On 30 July, 09:31, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In , BruceB
writes

...

Regularly tested in the small claims court. Companies seem reluctant to go
there , but here are a couple of examples that went the parking company's
way:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/ne...st-judge-rules

http://www.shropshirestar.com/latest...arking-wrangle

In both of these cases, the drivers claimed not to have seen the parking
notices. I have no idea whether this is true or not but, these days, it
is unwise to expect there NOT to be such notices, and these should be
sought out and checked every time you use the car park. You never know.
The conditions might have been sneakily changed since the last time you
were there.

However, it does seem that parking notices tend to be mounted well out
of the natural line of vision. They are usually 10 to 12 feet up, on
poles. I'm not surprised that some shoppers miss them (I often do,
unless I go looking for them). To avoid all doubt, the law should
require the entrance to all of these car parks to have displayed an 'in
your face' notice which simply states something like "Parking
Restrictions In Force - See Notices". It would then be up to the driver
to find a notice, and read the terms and conditions.

Valid point. I presume the signs are present but if there is to be a
parking fine/charge/penalty, whatever it should be called, IMHO the
law should require that they customers cannot miss them.

In fact here's a Google streetview photo of about as close to the
entrance as I can get. The B&Q entrance is where the yellow van is
exiting and a small dark blue or black car is entering.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...,95.73,,0,2.33

There's no barrier at the entrance, no obvious cameras, and no obvious
sign that I can see on the Google photo. Also, when I told a friend
what had happened he was surprised and said he'd never noticed parking-
charge signs at the store either.

Of course, in the interests of balance I should say things may have
changed at the store recently and the Google photo may be too old to
show new signage. At any rate I noticed nothing to say there was
either a time limit or a charge for an overstay.

I wonder how many other people have been caught out by this. It seems
more like a trap than any kind of entering in to a contract.

James

It seems that there are no hard and fast rules about all this. If a
court would view your case as reasonable, then it's unlikely the parking
company would take it that far.
The fact that you bought something must be on your side, and that you
left straight afterwards (I imagine most people would go through the
checkout and then wander off to do other things).
Can't help thinking that if you were ordering a kitchen, there's no way
you'd be out in 2 hours.
I think I'd soft soap B&Q and hope they let you off with a warning not
to get too interested in their special offers etc. It would be
interesting to know what the mechanics of this would be. One assumes
that someone at head office has the authority to cancel a fine, and that
they haven't washed their hands of the whole thing.

In article qjd6o.46729$Gc2.13961@hurricane,
says...
On 04/08/2010 12:11, James Harris wrote:
On 30 July, 09:31, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In , BruceB
writes

...

Regularly tested in the small claims court. Companies seem reluctant to go
there , but here are a couple of examples that went the parking company's
way:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/ne...st-judge-rules

http://www.shropshirestar.com/latest...arking-wrangle

In both of these cases, the drivers claimed not to have seen the parking
notices. I have no idea whether this is true or not but, these days, it
is unwise to expect there NOT to be such notices, and these should be
sought out and checked every time you use the car park. You never know.
The conditions might have been sneakily changed since the last time you
were there.

However, it does seem that parking notices tend to be mounted well out
of the natural line of vision. They are usually 10 to 12 feet up, on
poles. I'm not surprised that some shoppers miss them (I often do,
unless I go looking for them). To avoid all doubt, the law should
require the entrance to all of these car parks to have displayed an 'in
your face' notice which simply states something like "Parking
Restrictions In Force - See Notices". It would then be up to the driver
to find a notice, and read the terms and conditions.

Valid point. I presume the signs are present but if there is to be a
parking fine/charge/penalty, whatever it should be called, IMHO the
law should require that they customers cannot miss them.

In fact here's a Google streetview photo of about as close to the
entrance as I can get. The B&Q entrance is where the yellow van is
exiting and a small dark blue or black car is entering.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...,95.73,,0,2.33

There's no barrier at the entrance, no obvious cameras, and no obvious
sign that I can see on the Google photo. Also, when I told a friend
what had happened he was surprised and said he'd never noticed parking-
charge signs at the store either.

Of course, in the interests of balance I should say things may have
changed at the store recently and the Google photo may be too old to
show new signage. At any rate I noticed nothing to say there was
either a time limit or a charge for an overstay.

I wonder how many other people have been caught out by this. It seems
more like a trap than any kind of entering in to a contract.

James

It seems that there are no hard and fast rules about all this. If a
court would view your case as reasonable, then it's unlikely the parking
company would take it that far.
The fact that you bought something must be on your side, and that you
left straight afterwards (I imagine most people would go through the
checkout and then wander off to do other things).
Can't help thinking that if you were ordering a kitchen, there's no way
you'd be out in 2 hours.
I think I'd soft soap B&Q and hope they let you off with a warning not
to get too interested in their special offers etc. It would be
interesting to know what the mechanics of this would be. One assumes
that someone at head office has the authority to cancel a fine, and that
they haven't washed their hands of the whole thing.


If you did shop there that day, then I would definitely do as James
stated and go to the B&Q store with a copy of your receipt and the
parking fine.

A similar thing happened to me at Iceland. They have a patrons only
parking sign, but I didn't have change for parking meter, so took a
chance only to find a ticket on my car when I came out. I immediately
took it into the store and they were more than happy to deal with it.

However, I received a demand for the money in the post a few weeks later
stating that it had not been paid. I phoned them to tell them that the
store had waived the fine, but they weren't interested, so I had to
return to the store who again said not to worry, they would sort it out.

A few weeks later I received a further demand in the post and phoned
them again and, unsurprisingly, they still weren't interested, so I told
them, as far as I was concerned, the matter was closed and, if they had
a problem, then get in touch with the store, which they told me they
weren't prepared to do. So, I told them, neither was I, I had done
enough running around and wasn't going to do any more to try and prove
my case and the conversation ended there.

Never heard any more and this was now well over a year ago.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

On Aug 4, 12:11*pm, James Harris
wrote:
In fact here's a Google streetview photo of about as close to the
entrance as I can get. The B&Q entrance is where the yellow van is
exiting and a small dark blue or black car is entering.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...,-2.12579&spn=...

There's no barrier at the entrance, no obvious cameras, and no obvious
sign that I can see on the Google photo. Also, when I told a friend
what had happened he was surprised and said he'd never noticed parking-
charge signs at the store either.

Of course, in the interests of balance I should say things may have
changed at the store recently and the Google photo may be too old to
show new signage. At any rate I noticed nothing to say there was
either a time limit or a charge for an overstay.

I wonder how many other people have been caught out by this. It seems
more like a trap than any kind of entering in to a contract.

Might there be some significance that the store is in Aberdeen and,
judging by the number of cars parked when the picture was taken, it
must have been a house-to-house charity collection day?

There certainly seem to be some signs inside the car park. What
information did those convey?