Rather than high jack the other thread I thought I would start my own:-)

Currently on the 5th. bag of sharp sand so you can guess my finger tips
would be wasted at a crime scene. On advice in here, I skimmed the
McCormack site and found it very helpful.

Couple of points arising... scaffold poles make excellent guides for
laying out the sharp sand after wacking the hard-co use a third pole
to level off.

Also... build the retaining walls last! No amount of careful measurement
will avoid endless block cutting:-(

regards
--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
Rather than high jack the other thread I thought I would start my
own:-)
Currently on the 5th. bag of sharp sand so you can guess my finger
tips would be wasted at a crime scene. On advice in here, I skimmed
the McCormack site and found it very helpful.

Couple of points arising... scaffold poles make excellent guides for
laying out the sharp sand after wacking the hard-co use a third
pole to level off.

I wouldn't use a pole to trammel with, you need something with a square
edge, a round pole will ride over lumps and bumps but a board will scrape
the tops off, you've a chance of partially compacting areas with a pole,
these won't go down as far as surrounding areas when whacked and you'll be
left with bumps here and there


Also... build the retaining walls last! No amount of careful
measurement will avoid endless block cutting:-(

This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that edgings
should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the drive...in an ideal
world this would be great, but surely it's more sensible to put all full
blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather than work to a specific boundary
and have a million fragments of block around the edges, which in my opinion,
looks like a badly put together jigsaw puzzle

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Phil L wrote:
....
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that edgings
should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the drive...in an ideal
world this would be great, but surely it's more sensible to put all full
blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather than work to a specific boundary
and have a million fragments of block around the edges, which in my opinion,
looks like a badly put together jigsaw puzzle

I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both straight
and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack recommends and
the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were an unavoidable part
of the pattern reaching the edge. Presumably that is the difference
betweeen professionals doing it regularly and amateurs doing it perhaps
once in a lifetime.

Colin Bignell

In message , Phil L
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
Rather than high jack the other thread I thought I would start my
own:-)
Currently on the 5th. bag of sharp sand so you can guess my finger
tips would be wasted at a crime scene. On advice in here, I skimmed
the McCormack site and found it very helpful.

Couple of points arising... scaffold poles make excellent guides for
laying out the sharp sand after wacking the hard-co use a third
pole to level off.

I wouldn't use a pole to trammel with, you need something with a square
edge, a round pole will ride over lumps and bumps but a board will scrape
the tops off, you've a chance of partially compacting areas with a pole,
these won't go down as far as surrounding areas when whacked and you'll be
left with bumps here and there

Umm... does seem to work though:-)

I guess it makes for generous use of sand which may temper slight
inequalities. Not allowing the scraper pole to *roll* requires a bit of
effort. The technique adopted was to shovel moist sand up to the scraper
and only attempt levelling 18" or so at a time. This avoids knees and
feet causing local compaction.

I started off using T section suspended ceiling steel but found this
difficult to remove without wrecking the beach:-) Poles pull out very
easily and the slots left can easily be filled.


Also... build the retaining walls last! No amount of careful
measurement will avoid endless block cutting:-(

This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that edgings
should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the drive...in an ideal
world this would be great, but surely it's more sensible to put all full
blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather than work to a specific boundary
and have a million fragments of block around the edges, which in my opinion,
looks like a badly put together jigsaw puzzle

Yes. I am considering how to match the colour and aggregate used for my
second hand concrete blocks where I have created a wedge 5m long going
from 0 to 50mm.
Had I simply prepared a suitably wide foundation the edge blocks could
have been secured later:-(

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" writes
Phil L wrote:
...
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather
than work to a specific boundary and have a million fragments of
block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks like a badly put
together jigsaw puzzle

I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both
straight and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack
recommends and the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were an
unavoidable part of the pattern reaching the edge. Presumably that is
the difference betweeen professionals doing it regularly and amateurs
doing it perhaps once in a lifetime.

Umm.. Some of my problems were unavoidable: where existing structures
were not 90 deg. or exactly parallel to the start point. Much head
scratching preceded laying the first block but the edge to a herbaceous
border could easily have moved a bit. *Growing* the bond could overcome
small gaps but with uniform-ish colour (apart from the chewing gum
splodges) blocks the only interest found by the eye is the linearity of
laying.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
...
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather
than work to a specific boundary and have a million fragments of
block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks like a badly put
together jigsaw puzzle

I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both
straight and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack
recommends and the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were an

This is impossible.
What they have done, if you look closer, is put cut blocks further back into
the body of the drive, so that only halves are visible at the edge, this IMV
is an avoidable bodge.

They could have used all full blocks and halves and worked to a string line,
then concreted the edges in last, it makes no difference to the structural
integrity of the drive, the only difference it makes is in appearance, and
let's face it, this is usually the only reason people want block paving in
the first place.

unavoidable part of the pattern reaching the edge. Presumably that is
the difference betweeen professionals doing it regularly and amateurs
doing it perhaps once in a lifetime.


I've laid thousands of m2 of paving

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Phil L wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
...
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather
than work to a specific boundary and have a million fragments of
block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks like a badly put
together jigsaw puzzle
I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both
straight and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack
recommends and the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were an

This is impossible.

Sorry to disapoint you, but that is what they did.

What they have done, if you look closer, is put cut blocks further back into
the body of the drive, so that only halves are visible at the edge,

Nope. I was there when the blocks were being laid and watched what
happened. There were no cuts except, as I said, those unavoidable due to
the pattern meeting the edge.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
...
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last,
rather than work to a specific boundary and have a million
fragments of block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks
like a badly put together jigsaw puzzle
I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both
straight and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack
recommends and the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were
an

This is impossible.

Sorry to disapoint you, but that is what they did.

As I said earlier, it's impossible, how, with a curved edge are they able to
use only full blocks and halves? - any photos?


What they have done, if you look closer, is put cut blocks further
back into the body of the drive, so that only halves are visible at
the edge,

Nope. I was there when the blocks were being laid and watched what
happened. There were no cuts except, as I said, those unavoidable due
to the pattern meeting the edge.


That wasn't what you said, you said half blocks....if the edgings were
already concreted in and even if they started at the edge you are thinking
of with full and halves, they must have had pieces along the opposite edge,
or as I said, further back into the body of the paving.


It makes not one iota of difference to the finished product anyway, it's
just easier to use larger pieces than be left with lots of smaller pieces,
for instance, if I am working to a concrete fence at one side and a wall at
the other, I will stop the paving at the last full / half that I can fit in,
and if this leaves a 50mm gap along wall or fence, it gets pointed with
coloured concrete, rather than take the blocks right up to the boundary and
have a million slithers of blocks on display


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

John Rumm wrote:
On 14/06/2010 01:22, Phil L wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
Rather than high jack the other thread I thought I would start my
own:-)
Currently on the 5th. bag of sharp sand so you can guess my finger
tips would be wasted at a crime scene. On advice in here, I skimmed
the McCormack site and found it very helpful.

Couple of points arising... scaffold poles make excellent guides for
laying out the sharp sand after wacking the hard-co use a third
pole to level off.

I wouldn't use a pole to trammel with, you need something with a
square edge, a round pole will ride over lumps and bumps but a board
will scrape the tops off, you've a chance of partially compacting
areas with a pole, these won't go down as far as surrounding areas
when whacked and you'll be left with bumps here and there


Also... build the retaining walls last! No amount of careful
measurement will avoid endless block cutting:-(

This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last, rather
than work to a specific boundary and have a million fragments of
block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks like a badly put
together jigsaw puzzle

If you read on, he also cautions against using fragments, and
advocates altering the pattern at the edge to use half or larger
block pieces to remove the need for small bits. I have tried this
myself, and it looked fine.

It does look fine and I have also done it, but it's easier still if you
aren't working to a pre-defined boundary

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Phil L wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@" wrote:
Phil L wrote:
...
This an issue I have with McCormack's site, he always states that
edgings should be concreted in prior to laying the body of the
drive...in an ideal world this would be great, but surely it's more
sensible to put all full blocks in, then the edgings in last,
rather than work to a specific boundary and have a million
fragments of block around the edges, which in my opinion, looks
like a badly put together jigsaw puzzle
I had a lot of blockwork laid whn I moved into this house, both
straight and curved. The contractors did exactly what McCormack
recommends and the only blocks they cut were half blocks that were
an
This is impossible.
Sorry to disapoint you, but that is what they did.

As I said earlier, it's impossible, how, with a curved edge are they able to
use only full blocks and halves?

No cuts of any sort were needed for the curve. It was a large arc of a
circle with the blocks laid radially. The radius is large enough (3m
internal diameter IIRC) that the taper in the joints is not obvious.

What they have done, if you look closer, is put cut blocks further
back into the body of the drive, so that only halves are visible at
the edge,
Nope. I was there when the blocks were being laid and watched what
happened. There were no cuts except, as I said, those unavoidable due
to the pattern meeting the edge.


That wasn't what you said, you said half blocks....

Correct. Cutting blocks in half was what was needed where the pattern
met the edge. The rectangular areas were laid herringbone, with the
blocks laid parallel to the edges.

if the edgings were
already concreted in and even if they started at the edge you are thinking
of with full and halves, they must have had pieces along the opposite edge,
or as I said, further back into the body of the paving.

and, as I said, I watched and they did not.

It makes not one iota of difference to the finished product anyway, it's
just easier to use larger pieces than be left with lots of smaller pieces,
for instance, if I am working to a concrete fence at one side and a wall at
the other, I will stop the paving at the last full / half that I can fit in,
and if this leaves a 50mm gap along wall or fence, it gets pointed with
coloured concrete, rather than take the blocks right up to the boundary and
have a million slithers of blocks on display

Most of the hard surfacing I had laid was laid without restrictions at
the edges, although a few bits had an existing wall along one edge. The
rest was laid to lawn or flower beds.

Colin Bignell

In message , John
Rumm writes

If you read on, he also cautions against using fragments, and
advocates altering the pattern at the edge to use half or larger
block pieces to remove the need for small bits. I have tried this
myself, and it looked fine.

It does look fine and I have also done it, but it's easier still if you
aren't working to a pre-defined boundary

Yup sure...

As long as you have a decent depth of concrete haunch in place you
mortar your edge course onto there is nothing wrong with adding the
edge course after.

Personally I quite like having it there for curvy or other more complex
layouts in advance since it give you a nice level to screed from.

OK. So back to the useful bit.. how do you match infill to the blocks?

Mine appear to be made from a 6mm or so aggregate with the top possibly
acid etched to expose the stone.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/06/2010 09:28, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes

If you read on, he also cautions against using fragments, and
advocates altering the pattern at the edge to use half or larger
block pieces to remove the need for small bits. I have tried this
myself, and it looked fine.

It does look fine and I have also done it, but it's easier still if you
aren't working to a pre-defined boundary

Yup sure...

As long as you have a decent depth of concrete haunch in place you
mortar your edge course onto there is nothing wrong with adding the
edge course after.

Personally I quite like having it there for curvy or other more
complex layouts in advance since it give you a nice level to screed from.

OK. So back to the useful bit.. how do you match infill to the blocks?

Normally by cutting a notch out of the ends of my screeding bar:

_________________
|__ __|
|___________|

The ends ride over the prepared edges, and the bottom scrapes the
compacted sand to the required level. When using "normal" 50mm high
blocks one can also place a 4x2 on its side laying on the sand to form
another screeding rail should it be required.

Mine appear to be made from a 6mm or so aggregate with the top possibly
acid etched to expose the stone.

If too lumpy to screed from directly, then a thin wood rail can be laid
over the top and deeper notches cut in the screeding board.

Sorry, question not set out well.

Hiding head in shame, I am proposing to mix a sharp sand, suitable
aggregate and cement to try and match the visual appearance of the laid
blocks where I have silly (up to 35mm) gaps.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:


Sorry, question not set out well.

Hiding head in shame, I am proposing to mix a sharp sand, suitable
aggregate and cement to try and match the visual appearance of the
laid blocks where I have silly (up to 35mm) gaps.

regards

My advice is to take up paving with any gaps larger that a few mm and relay,
anything else is going to look revolting now and in the future

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/06/2010 22:29, Tim Lamb wrote:

Sorry, question not set out well.

Hiding head in shame, I am proposing to mix a sharp sand, suitable
aggregate and cement to try and match the visual appearance of the laid
blocks where I have silly (up to 35mm) gaps.

Not convinced that's ever going to look nice! Can't you relay a few to
eliminate the gaps (even if it means that you consolidate the gaps into
one larger one at an edge that you can fill with a mortar screed)

er.. they are already at the edge. That is the problem caused by
building the walls first:-)

I have been very careful to maintain the intervals between the blocks,
despite having some with spacer nibs and some without. Smarting slightly
from the *amateur* appellation bestowed by Phil L, I have made up some
steel spacers as temporary guides.

Cutting 75x200x100mm concrete blocks is a non trivial activity
particularly as they are too deep to easily cut with a 230mm blade.

regards


--
Tim Lamb