We have a brick wall in our house which we want to leave unplastered as
a feature. It needs to have a lightswitch and a double socket on it.

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that has anything like this? The only
surface mount stuff I can find at the moment is grey.

The other options seem to be drilling straight through the wall and
running the wires up the other side, or running the wires up the cavity
(strangely it's a cavity wall although it is internal: a relic of how
the extension was built). Neither of these, I think, are allowed under
the wiring regulations.

Jim wrote:
We have a brick wall in our house which we want to leave unplastered as
a feature. It needs to have a lightswitch and a double socket on it.

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that has anything like this? The only
surface mount stuff I can find at the moment is grey.

Tryy here - any number of options:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...dex/index.html

Not sure how many of these designs have bespoke surface-mounting boxes,
which is what you'll need, but there are certainly brass boxes
available, and also definitely steel ones if you want the 'industrial' look.

David

Jim wrote:
We have a brick wall in our house which we want to leave unplastered as
a feature. It needs to have a lightswitch and a double socket on it.

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that has anything like this? The only
surface mount stuff I can find at the moment is grey.

The other options seem to be drilling straight through the wall and
running the wires up the other side, or running the wires up the cavity
(strangely it's a cavity wall although it is internal: a relic of how
the extension was built). Neither of these, I think, are allowed under
the wiring regulations.

If you've got a bit of spare cash, then you could consider using bare
pyro. If you don't finish it, then it goes dark and blends in with
brick/stone quite quickly. Also, as you fix it with p-clips, it will
conform well with the wall.

You don't have to wire the whole circuit in pyro, just the bits on show.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/...ires/cable.jpg

In article ,
Jim wrote:
We have a brick wall in our house which we want to leave unplastered as
a feature. It needs to have a lightswitch and a double socket on it.

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that has anything like this? The only
surface mount stuff I can find at the moment is grey.

The other options seem to be drilling straight through the wall and
running the wires up the other side, or running the wires up the cavity
(strangely it's a cavity wall although it is internal: a relic of how
the extension was built). Neither of these, I think, are allowed under
the wiring regulations.

What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a small
copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box rather like a
brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look at all the large
maker's sites to find out which looks best to you. I've seen them in
brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/05/2010 13:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a small
copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box rather like a
brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look at all the large
maker's sites to find out which looks best to you. I've seen them in
brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't thought of MICC.

I've had a look at various websites, though, and I can't for the life of
me find anyone who makes the brushed stainless or brass surface mount
boxes. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere!

Jim wrote:
On 18/05/2010 13:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a small
copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box rather like a
brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look at all the large
maker's sites to find out which looks best to you. I've seen them in
brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't thought of MICC.

I've had a look at various websites, though, and I can't for the life of
me find anyone who makes the brushed stainless or brass surface mount
boxes. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere!

TLC as per my previous post certainly do brass ones

On 18/05/2010 14:14, Lobster wrote:
Jim wrote:
On 18/05/2010 13:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a small
copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box rather like a
brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look at all the large
maker's sites to find out which looks best to you. I've seen them in
brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't thought of MICC.

I've had a look at various websites, though, and I can't for the life of
me find anyone who makes the brushed stainless or brass surface mount
boxes. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere!

TLC as per my previous post certainly do brass ones

I guess you mean these?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...xes/index.html

I don't really think they're suitable, unfortunately.

In article ,
Jim wrote:
On 18/05/2010 13:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a
small copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box
rather like a brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look
at all the large maker's sites to find out which looks best to you.
I've seen them in brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't thought of MICC.

I've had a look at various websites, though, and I can't for the life of
me find anyone who makes the brushed stainless or brass surface mount
boxes. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere!

I know Crabtree once did as I've got the brushed chrome ones.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jim wrote:
On 18/05/2010 13:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
What looks best for that IMHO is a good quality metal surface mount
fitting wired in surface MICC cable with the PVC protective sleeve
removed, if you can't find it bare to start with. MICC looks like a
small copper pipe but can be bent by hand. The fitting to the box
rather like a brass compression fitting. As regards the fittings, look
at all the large maker's sites to find out which looks best to you.
I've seen them in brushed stainless and brass as well as painted grey.

Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't thought of MICC.

I've had a look at various websites, though, and I can't for the life of
me find anyone who makes the brushed stainless or brass surface mount
boxes. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere!

I've been in touch with a mate of mine who runs St John's Hill Lighting
near Clapham Junction. He's a real fount of all knowledge on things like
this having been in the trade all his life. And reckons no one makes other
than painted metal clad anymore. So it would be down to using a standard
flush fitting brass or whatever with the matching metal box for surface
mounting - he reckons the MK ones look ok. I've never seen one in the
flesh.

--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Lewden (very industrial, art deco style, 5A 13A 15A 30A) or Clipsal
(modern knockoff).

I would bring the cable in from the rear.
Run oval or round conduit down the other side into a BESA box sunk
into the wall, rear exit the BESA into the rear of whatever you
choose. No problem feeding a tape down with magnet, snap onto a magnet
puller and pulling through - along with conventional FTE. Permits
cable replacement easily in the future. You could sink the socket/
light switch and use brass faceplates, just realise moving them
requires quite a bit of future work if you change your mind :-) For a
horizontal run do the same re two leg conduit box and chase the wall
the other side horizontally. BESA boxes work well for this kind of
stuff - same with wall lights although some require architrave if the
light fitting itself is quite narrow.

Cable running down the wall may work , but a socket/switch sat
"cleanly" on a brick wall can look much better. Consider the outside
of your house - do you prefer cables running down to an accessory or a
lone accessory & lone light on the wall? Most people prefer the latter
with the cables hidden, particularly with FP200G/BS8436 being white.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:18:59 +0100, Jim wrote:

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Old metal conduit rescued from a skip?

Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On May 18, 5:05*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?

Quite a bit north of £50 for tools & glands, £2 per metre of cable.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:48:23 -0700, js.b1 wrote:

On May 18, 5:05Â*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?

Quite a bit north of £50 for tools & glands, £2 per metre of cable.

Would there be anything wrong with some nice polished copper tube as
'conduit'?

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 09:48:23 -0700, js.b1 wrote:

On May 18, 5:05 pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?
Quite a bit north of £50 for tools & glands, £2 per metre of cable.

Would there be anything wrong with some nice polished copper tube as
'conduit'?


No, except for the fact that you would have to earth it with a Tenby
clamp! Yummy :-)

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:18:59 +0100, Jim wrote:

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Old metal conduit rescued from a skip?

Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?


It's very expensive to buy (if you have to buy 100m of cable), very
expensive to terminate (if you have to buy glands in packs of ten, when
you only need 2 or 4), expensive on tools which can only be used for to
terminate pyro/micc and it requires skill and practice to make it look
good. A lot of younger sparks will never have used it outside college,
if ever.

Your best bet, if you wanted a bit of pyro doing, would be to get in
touch with your local theatre and ask them for the name of their
maintenance electrician. Theatres were (and are) often wired in micc
because of its ultimate fireproof nature, so the maintenance electrician
will necessarily be geared up to do micc work.

In article ,
Dave Osborne wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:18:59 +0100, Jim wrote:

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Old metal conduit rescued from a skip?

Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?


It's very expensive to buy (if you have to buy 100m of cable), very
expensive to terminate (if you have to buy glands in packs of ten, when
you only need 2 or 4), expensive on tools which can only be used for to
terminate pyro/micc and it requires skill and practice to make it look
good. A lot of younger sparks will never have used it outside college,
if ever.

My guess is any wholesaler who stocks it will cut it. It's true the seals
and glands are expensive at about 3 quid a go - but then so is say chrome
plated copper pipe, and people will pay for that where it can be seen. And
plenty of sockets cost a great deal.

With care, you can terminate it without special tools - it just takes
longer. And is quite fun.

Your best bet, if you wanted a bit of pyro doing, would be to get in
touch with your local theatre and ask them for the name of their
maintenance electrician. Theatres were (and are) often wired in micc
because of its ultimate fireproof nature, so the maintenance electrician
will necessarily be geared up to do micc work.

My view is a competent DIYer who works with copper pipe and has reasonable
understanding of electrics will be fine with it. Getting it might be the
biggest problem. IMHO, the end result done neatly looks better than any
alternative over brick or old wood, etc. After a short while copper blends
into them so well.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ebay is probably the best bet for Pyro or MICC...
- Glands can be had cheaply
- Cable can be had by the metre (3 core 1.5mm is £3.25) or offcut (21m
is £59)

QVSdirect had cut-length, glands etc a few months back but nothing
now.

I would suggest a visual pilot.
1) Stick the light and socket on the wall with double sided tape -
photograph from within the room somewhere re "context" & print off in
colour.
2) Buy 8mm copper tube, stick the 8mm copper tube to the wall leading
to each wiring accessory - photograph from within the room somewhere
re "context" & print off in colour.

Leave the pictures on the coffee table for a day and you will then
decide which you prefer. You may like it, but then go off it. It is
like the kitchen sockets with 2G+1G+2G all jammed against one another,
or spaced apart, there is an aesthetics issue which is best sorted out
before you start fixing things to wall.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:18:59 +0100, Jim wrote:

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Old metal conduit rescued from a skip?

Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?

Great fun. Can be done easily DIY with care and no special tools. Just
takes longer. Think it's in the FAQ, how to.

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:18:59 +0100, Jim wrote:

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Old metal conduit rescued from a skip?

Isn't MICC/Pyro a bit of skill to terminate?

Great fun. Can be done easily DIY with care and no special tools. Just
takes longer. Think it's in the FAQ, how to.


Just to be clear on this point, you absolutely *must* megger each piece
of pyro/micc after you have potted it but before it is terminated. It is
*not* suitable for DIY if you don't have access to a 500V insulation tester.

In article ,
Dave Osborne wrote:
Just to be clear on this point, you absolutely *must* megger each piece
of pyro/micc after you have potted it but before it is terminated. It is
*not* suitable for DIY if you don't have access to a 500V insulation
tester.

With respect, ********. I'm assuming you're using new cable - not
something stored in the rain for years. There simply is no need in
practice if you work carefully.

BTW, what do you consider the difference between 'potting' and
'terminated'?

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

BTW, what do you consider the difference between 'potting' and
'terminated'?

Potting is stripping, putting the resin in, and putting the end on.

Terminating is connecting it up.

On 19/05/10 00:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Dave wrote:
Just to be clear on this point, you absolutely *must* megger each piece
of pyro/micc after you have potted it but before it is terminated. It is
*not* suitable for DIY if you don't have access to a 500V insulation
tester.

With respect, ********. I'm assuming you're using new cable - not
something stored in the rain for years. There simply is no need in
practice if you work carefully.

BTW, what do you consider the difference between 'potting' and
'terminated'?


No, I agree with Dave O. PVC if new and visibly undamaged can reasonably
be assumed to have good insulation.

You cannot assume that, in particular, a piece of pyro bought from ebay,
or an offcut from the wholesaler, hasn't been subjected to damp.

Also, as a DIYer, I wouldn't feel happy unless I could megger the thing
3 months down the line. Potting is possible to get wrong, letting in
moisture later.

Noone said you couldn't DIY a tester for this purpose - it is after all
only a 500V DC test. Given pyro can cope with 1000V tests, the simplest
(and slightly dangerous, but not if you're careful) tester would be a
mains driven voltage doubler (couple of diodes and capacitors), limiting
resistor and an micro-ammeter.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 18/05/2010 12:18, Jim wrote:
We have a brick wall in our house which we want to leave unplastered as
a feature. It needs to have a lightswitch and a double socket on it.

Since chasing the wall would look ugly, I'm trying to find something
which is surface mounted and that will look vaguely industrial/old
fashioned rather than tacky and white plastic.

Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that has anything like this? The only
surface mount stuff I can find at the moment is grey.

The other options seem to be drilling straight through the wall and
running the wires up the other side, or running the wires up the cavity
(strangely it's a cavity wall although it is internal: a relic of how
the extension was built). Neither of these, I think, are allowed under
the wiring regulations.

What about some nice 20mm Galv Conduit with 1Gang Metal boxes. Cheap to
buy and great fun to bend.

--
Regards
Camdor.