On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends
involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are
fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from
the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best to
connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between
the two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest,
but again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A
will fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you
will empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you
only use 3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B is
full in order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of little
rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B.
3 is better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve



Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the
lower tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the
same.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

Ed

On 01/04/2010 10:37 Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That's probably asking for leaks sooner or later, which is why I
connected mine at the top: less pressure on the connections.

--
F

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved)
from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with
taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel
B as it is a little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between the
two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest, but
again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A will
fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you will
empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you only use
3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B is full in
order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B. 3
is better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve



Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the lower
tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the same.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between the
two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so that
both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I would
close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a water can
under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

Ed

I've connected two butts (at a friends) at the same level by installing a
brass tank connector (15mm) halfway up both butts and connecting both
together with a length of hose. This way the first will fill the second
only when it's a least half full and, as the butts are 40ft apart, there
should always be some water at both ends of the garden as it is impossible
to completely drain both butts from one tap.

In my own garden I have four butts connected in series, down a slope,
connected with a hose and the lower ones fitted with ballcocks, the overflow
being on the first one by the house.

Peter

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:37:00 +0100, Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ?

Yep but it's a "thinking" solution. You have to remember to reconnect
the hose and open the taps or go out in the rain when you remember
you haven't done it... The average pastic water butt tap and tank
connector are not the most robust and normally don't take a hose
anyway...

I prefer non-thinking KISS stuff, the simple siphon is a good one.
Priming is the hard bit but sink all the hose into one butt so it
fills with water, block and end with your thumb, take that to the
other butt and submerge it before unblocking.


--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/04/10 12:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:37:00 +0100, Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ?

Yep but it's a "thinking" solution. You have to remember to reconnect
the hose and open the taps or go out in the rain when you remember
you haven't done it... The average pastic water butt tap and tank
connector are not the most robust and normally don't take a hose
anyway...

I prefer non-thinking KISS stuff, the simple siphon is a good one.
Priming is the hard bit but sink all the hose into one butt so it
fills with water, block and end with your thumb, take that to the
other butt and submerge it before unblocking.



I don't know what KISS stuff is but I have just tried the siphon method
as you described and it works brilliantly. WOW!! Really easy to set up
and no cutting of tanks for connections , no new taps required, no pumps
required. Nothing, just a length of tubing weighed down at the bottom
of each tank. And I guess the water levels in each take will remain
balanced no mater which tank I draw water from eh?

Kisses and hugs (in the purest of senses, of course) to you mate for
your very helpful reply.

Ed

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 12:20:06 +0100, Ed ex@directory wrote:

I don't know what KISS stuff is

Keep it Simple, Stupid ;-)

--
(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯)

Ed wrote:
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends
involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are
fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from
the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best to
connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A)
to the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between
the two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest,
but again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A
will fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell,
you will empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If
you only use 3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B
is full in order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of
little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at
B. 3 is better than 4 for the same reason.

Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the
lower tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the
same.

Raise B on breeze blocks to match the levels and then use a hose filled
with water in the main tank and dipped right to the bottom of the each
tank. So long as you don't drain every last drop out of the tanks the
water will find its own level through the siphon.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

More complicated than is needed. I just use a hose as a siphon when the
main tank is full to move water to the lower more convenient tanks.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 12:20:06 +0100, Ed wrote:

I don't know what KISS stuff is

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

but I have just tried the siphon method as you described and it works
brilliantly. WOW!!

Simple and effective, the water level in the two butts will remain
the same no matter which you draw off from. Obviously with B being a
foot lower than A, A won't be full. Simple to solve as you've already
said with some breeze blocks. Remember a decent sized water butt full
of water will be quite heavy, something between a 1/4 and 1/2 a tonne
depending on size. (60cm dia 1.3m high butt is over 1/3 tonne).

--
Cheers
Dave.

Ed wrote:

I don't know what KISS stuff is

Well-established acronym for 'keep it simple, stupid'

Kisses and hugs (in the purest of senses, of course) to you mate for
your very helpful reply.

Yup. Go to your local fiendly hardware shop / DIY store and get two
screw-up nipples and a hole-saw of a suitable size.

If necessary, get a length of good quality hosepipe and two clips (I
don't like Jubilee clips and would advise against them) which contract
all round. Hose-clips from a motor factor are favourite IME.

Cut a hole near the bottom of each butt, and fit the gubbins, raising
the lower one to the level of the higher. That way they'll both overflow
at the same time. Make the lower one slightly lower than the higher, and
it will overflow first, ensuring your shed/greenhouse/w.h.y? doesn't
have wet feet.

--
Rusty

Peter Andrews wrote:

I've connected two butts (at a friends) at the same level by installing a
brass tank connector (15mm) halfway up both butts and connecting both
together with a length of hose. This way the first will fill the second
only when it's a least half full and, as the butts are 40ft apart, there
should always be some water at both ends of the garden as it is impossible
to completely drain both butts from one tap.

I like that.

I am doing something similar with the added refinement of pumps and a
1,000 gallon orange concentrate 'bottle',

Using float switches, 12v pumps will prevent any butt from overflowing
by pumping water from the top part of the butts into the big tank. This
will be around six feet above ground level.

OK, this isn't just for garden use - I shall be using the (soft) water
for washing, flushing the throne, etc, while reducing my water bill. But
there will be a butt in the greenhouse innit.

In my own garden I have four butts connected in series, down a slope,
connected with a hose and the lower ones fitted with ballcocks,

You'll never guess what IRTA...

the overflow
being on the first one by the house.

Always try to site your overflow where it will do most good. Failing
that, least harm.

--
Rusty

On 01/04/10 14:05, Martin Brown wrote:
Ed wrote:
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a
slight slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my
shed. I want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no
bends involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both
are fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water
from the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best
to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A)
to the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between
the two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest,
but again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A
will fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell,
you will empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If
you only use 3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when
B is full in order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of
little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at
B. 3 is better than 4 for the same reason.

Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the
two tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of
the lower tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were
about the same.

Raise B on breeze blocks to match the levels and then use a hose filled
with water in the main tank and dipped right to the bottom of the each
tank. So long as you don't drain every last drop out of the tanks the
water will find its own level through the siphon.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

More complicated than is needed. I just use a hose as a siphon when the
main tank is full to move water to the lower more convenient tanks.

Regards,
Martin Brown


Yer, agreed.

Siphon is the way to go.

Thanks
Ed

Ed wrote:

Siphon is the way to go.

Just so long as it isn't a decent whisky.

--
Rusty