Life is always complicated.
So is this post.

I am planning to use B&Q windows because you can buy them off the shelf and
as this is a new build I can (more or less) plan the wall around the
windows.

We went to a B&Q Warehouse yesterday to make the final decisions and
generally sort out the fine detail.

[By the way, B&Q have this 'face board' at the door with pictures of the
staff and all their specialities - building, plumbing, electrical etc.
Excellent idea. We tracked down the two building experts. Turns out they
weren't really builders. One was a baker. They pointed us to the builder. He
wasn't happy that he was listed as a plumber because he didn't know about
plumbing. Go figure.]

The staff were very helpful (howver, see above).

We asked "Is there a set of instructions on how to fit the windows?".
[Reasonable question, as it is a good idea to know what is required before
you start, and any asssumptions made.]

The windows included on the label the size of the frame and the size of the
opening required.
The opening was 10mm wider than the frame and 80mm higher than the frame.
We asked "Why the extra height?".

Answers were "No" and "Don't know".
Further discussion - I can see that 30mm is for the cill but what is the
extra 50mm for - and we were told that the extra space was for the trickle
vent which was sold seperately and had to be fitted because of Building
Regulations.
40mm high strip that just clips on.
O.K. - the workshop is not a habitable room so this shouldn't apply.

It is nice to deal with mature people - a bonus in B&Q - because they
'borrowed' a set of instructions from a window so we could read them.
They then made a photocopy so we could take it away.
I did suggest that they might like to make a couple more for future
reference but I don't know if they did.
The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

However there is another fly in the ointment.

We are looking at windows which are 905mm wide.
The dimensions on the package say that the opening should be 915mm wide.
The instructions say that there should be a 5mm gap all round - presumably
to allow for fine adjustment with packing to get the window exactly plumb,
also to provide some depth to fit the brackets.
Errrr.......
1 block is 440mm wide.
Mortar between blocks is 10mm.
A two block gap is therefore "Mortar-block-mortar-block-mortar" or
(10+440+10+440+10) which comes to 910mm.
The window requires a gap of 915mm.
.......so why?

There seems to be no logic in that particular window sizing given the
accompanying instructions.
I am then left with the question "Can I build the opening to the tolerance
of 2.5mm each side, and if so will this be enough for any expansion and for
the brackets?".

Oh, and a supplementary.
Instructions suggest that the gap around the window is packed with foam
rubber to allow for expansion and contraction.
Foam rubber?
This is to be added after the window has been screwed into the opening and
all additional packing pieces (used to get the window true before fixing)
have been removed.
Do they mean squirty foam?
Or are there strips of foam rubber you push into the gaps before sealing
inside and out with frame sealant?

If anyone is interested I can scan the instructions in and post them on
photobucket - they provide useful information for anyone new to fitting
plastic windows.

Any information, as usual, gratefully received.

Cheers

Dave R

On 9 Mar, 09:23, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
Life is always complicated.
So is this post.

I am planning to use B&Q windows because you can buy them off the shelf and
as this is a new build I can (more or less) plan the wall around the
windows.

We went to a B&Q Warehouse yesterday to make the final decisions and
generally sort out the fine detail.

[By the way, B&Q have this 'face board' at the door with pictures of the
staff and all their specialities - building, plumbing, electrical etc.
Excellent idea. We tracked down the two building experts. Turns out they
weren't really builders. One was a baker. They pointed us to the builder. He
wasn't happy that he was listed as a plumber because he didn't know about
plumbing. Go figure.]

The staff were very helpful (howver, see above).

We asked "Is there a set of instructions on how to fit the windows?".
[Reasonable question, as it is a good idea to know what is required before
you start, and any asssumptions made.]

The windows included on the label the size of the frame and the size of the
opening required.
The opening was 10mm wider than the frame and 80mm higher than the frame.
We asked "Why the extra height?".

Answers were "No" and "Don't know".
Further discussion - I can see that 30mm is for the cill but what is the
extra 50mm for - and we were told that the extra space was for the trickle
vent which was sold seperately and had to be fitted because of Building
Regulations.
40mm high strip that just clips on.
O.K. - the workshop is not a habitable room so this shouldn't apply.

It is nice to deal with mature people - a bonus in B&Q - because they
'borrowed' a set of instructions from a window so we could read them.
They then made a photocopy so we could take it away.
I did suggest that they might like to make a couple more for future
reference but I don't know if they did.
The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

However there is another fly in the ointment.

We are looking at windows which are 905mm wide.
The dimensions on the package say that the opening should be 915mm wide.
The instructions say that there should be a 5mm gap all round - presumably
to allow for fine adjustment with packing to get the window exactly plumb,
also to provide some depth to fit the brackets.
Errrr.......
1 block is 440mm wide.
Mortar between blocks is 10mm.
A two block gap is therefore "Mortar-block-mortar-block-mortar" or
(10+440+10+440+10) which comes to 910mm.
The window requires a gap of 915mm.
......so why?

There seems to be no logic in that particular window sizing given the
accompanying instructions.
I am then left with the question "Can I build the opening to the tolerance
of 2.5mm each side, and if so will this be enough for any expansion and for
the brackets?".

Oh, and a supplementary.
Instructions suggest that the gap around the window is packed with foam
rubber to allow for expansion and contraction.
Foam rubber?
This is to be added after the window has been screwed into the opening and
all additional packing pieces (used to get the window true before fixing)
have been removed.
Do they mean squirty foam?
Or are there strips of foam rubber you push into the gaps before sealing
inside and out with frame sealant?

If anyone is interested I can scan the instructions in and post them on
photobucket - they provide useful information for anyone new to fitting
plastic windows.

Any information, as usual, gratefully received.

Cheers

Dave R

I ,too, used B&Q windows in a single skin garage/workshop.
You can make window 'openings' any size you like by varying mortar
gaps or cutting blocks. To suggest you could achieve an accuracy of
2.5 mm is fanciful.
The fixing clips can face fwd or back - I fitted mine with the windows
flush outside, clips to rear. They JUST fit in the 100mm (plus
external render).
Squirty foam, not foam rubber.
No need for trickle vents where the opening window can be locked
slightly open. No need at all in a non habitable building (presumeably
no airtightness).
Sill screws to window frame - I had to find some better screws....

Phil.

I've fitted a couple of windows and patio doors that were stock sizes from
Screwfix. Came with full fitting instructions. Very decent quality too -
no complaints and one of the windows and the doors are about 10 years old
now. The second window about 3 years old.

I fitted the windows flush with the outside of the wall - unlike timber
they don't need the protection of a recess. And they didn't have to match
older ones.

The instructions said they have to be set in absolutely level - one reason
for a larger opening. The fixing brackets were only to hold the window in
place - it's the foam which really does the job.

After the foam had set, I undercut it on the outside by about 1/2" and
applied a mortar fillet.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Phil" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar, 09:23, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
please refer to OP

I ,too, used B&Q windows in a single skin garage/workshop.
You can make window 'openings' any size you like by varying mortar
gaps or cutting blocks. To suggest you could achieve an accuracy of
2.5 mm is fanciful.
The fixing clips can face fwd or back - I fitted mine with the windows
flush outside, clips to rear. They JUST fit in the 100mm (plus
external render).
Squirty foam, not foam rubber.
No need for trickle vents where the opening window can be locked
slightly open. No need at all in a non habitable building (presumeably
no airtightness).
Sill screws to window frame - I had to find some better screws....

Phil.

Usefull as always (thanks to Dave as well)

Varying mortar gaps may not be the way to go, because in this case gaining
5mm on two gaps may be a little extreme.
As is cuttting 5mm off a concrete block :-(

The front should look like this, corner to cent

Block 4 block gap for door Block 2 block gap for window 5/8 block ||
centre

Other side is a mirror image.
So there aren't many mortar gaps beween the two windows and between the door
and the window.
Probably the column between the two windows will not follow the bond of the
rest of the wall.
As I am cutting these blocks anyway I can trim them to fit.

I was really mainly querying why (oh why, oh why) the window was made in a
size 5mm too wide to fit a multiple of blocks (and therefore a multiple of
bricks) without cutting.
It just doesn't seem logical.
Unless this is just coincidence and they aren't designed in multiple brick
widths.

Oh, and I don't have any external render (which means they might JUST not
fit).
Did you use both screw holes in the plastic bracket or just the one nearest
to the frame?
Did you angle the hole in 60 degrees as in the instructions for fitting the
bracket outside?

TIA

Dave R

On Mar 9, 9:23*am, "David WE Roberts"
The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

These are optional. You can fix by drilling through the frame and
using uPVC window frame fixers.


However there is another fly in the ointment.

We are looking at windows which are 905mm wide.
The dimensions on the package say that the opening should be 915mm wide.
The instructions say that there should be a 5mm gap all round - presumably
to allow for fine adjustment with packing to get the window exactly plumb,
also to provide some depth to fit the brackets.
Errrr.......
1 block is 440mm wide.
Mortar between blocks is 10mm.
A two block gap is therefore "Mortar-block-mortar-block-mortar" or
(10+440+10+440+10) which comes to 910mm.
The window requires a gap of 915mm.
......so why?

Convert to imperial measurements ;-) and then remember that these are
*replacement* windows.

Just build the openings to a convenient size and get the windows made
to fit.

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"
The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they
face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

These are optional. You can fix by drilling through the frame and
using uPVC window frame fixers.

snip

The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

On 9 Mar, 12:20, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"



The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they
face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

These are optional. You can fix by drilling through the frame and
using uPVC window frame fixers.

snip

The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

Yeah, the B&Q window I got did not have a "proper" bead on the inside,
just some type of felt, and I certainly didn't want to take out the
glass - who know what horrors may unfold.
Latest build, I got windows made to fit from a local supplier which
was surprisingly cheap and very good quality.
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
On 9 Mar, 12:20, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"



The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.
This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they
face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.
These are optional. You can fix by drilling through the frame and
using uPVC window frame fixers.

snip

The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

Yeah, the B&Q window I got did not have a "proper" bead on the inside,
just some type of felt, and I certainly didn't want to take out the
glass - who know what horrors may unfold.
Latest build, I got windows made to fit from a local supplier which
was surprisingly cheap and very good quality.
Simon.

I'd certainly check prices with a local installer. The last 4 I had
fitted were about £200 more than the cheapest supply only price I could
find. The bits and pieces (trims, superglue, accelerator, foam gun etc)
all add up, and are not always that easy to source.

On 9 Mar, 10:52, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
"Phil" wrote in message

... On 9 Mar, 09:23, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:

please refer to OP



I ,too, used B&Q windows in a single skin garage/workshop.
You can make window 'openings' any size you like by varying mortar
gaps or cutting blocks. To suggest you could achieve an accuracy of
2.5 mm is fanciful.
The fixing clips can face fwd or back - I fitted mine with the windows
flush outside, clips to rear. They JUST fit in the 100mm (plus
external render).
Squirty foam, not foam rubber.
No need for trickle vents where the opening window can be locked
slightly open. No need at all in a non habitable building (presumeably
no airtightness).
Sill screws to window frame - I had to find some better screws....

Phil.

Usefull as always (thanks to Dave as well)

Varying mortar gaps may not be the way to go, because in this case gaining
5mm on two gaps may be a little extreme.
As is cuttting 5mm off a concrete block :-(

The front should look like this, corner to cent

Block 4 block gap for door Block 2 block gap for window 5/8 block ||
centre

Other side is a mirror image.
So there aren't many mortar gaps beween the two windows and between the door
and the window.
Probably the column between the two windows will not follow the bond of the
rest of the wall.
As I am cutting these blocks anyway I can trim them to fit.

I was really mainly querying why (oh why, oh why) the window was made in a
size 5mm too wide to fit a multiple of blocks (and therefore a multiple of
bricks) without cutting.
It just doesn't seem logical.
Unless this is just coincidence and they aren't designed in multiple brick
widths.

Oh, and I don't have any external render (which means they might JUST not
fit).
Did you use both screw holes in the plastic bracket or just the one nearest
to the frame?
Did you angle the hole in 60 degrees as in the instructions for fitting the
bracket outside?

TIA

Dave R

Just the one screw nearest the frame, not angled, bracket fitted on
the inside.

In article ,
David WE Roberts wrote:
The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

As I said they're only to secure the frame while the foam sets. You don't
have to use them.

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mar 9, 12:20*pm, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"



The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth..
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they
face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

These are optional. You can fix by drilling through the frame and
using uPVC window frame fixers.

snip

The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

If the instructions don't tell you how to do this, and you are set on
off the shelf units, then buy somewhere else, like Wickes.

Download the Wickes "how to" guides on replacement windows as a start.

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 12:20 pm, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"
snip
snip

The windows come already glazed (hence the additional clips).
I don't want to have to prise out the glazing units to fit the frame.

#If the instructions don't tell you how to do this, and you are set on
#off the shelf units, then buy somewhere else, like Wickes.

#Download the Wickes "how to" guides on replacement windows as a start.


Can't seem to find any guide about windows on the Wickes web site.
If you have a link that would be appreciated.

Oh, and I do have a set of instructions - they tell you to use external
clips.
The issue is the depth of the single block wall and the length of the clips.

On Mar 9, 9:23*am, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
Life is always complicated.
So is this post.

I am planning to use B&Q windows because you can buy them off the shelf and
as this is a new build I can (more or less) plan the wall around the
windows.

We went to a B&Q Warehouse yesterday to make the final decisions and
generally sort out the fine detail.

[By the way, B&Q have this 'face board' at the door with pictures of the
staff and all their specialities - building, plumbing, electrical etc.
Excellent idea. We tracked down the two building experts. Turns out they
weren't really builders. One was a baker. They pointed us to the builder. He
wasn't happy that he was listed as a plumber because he didn't know about
plumbing. Go figure.]

The staff were very helpful (howver, see above).

We asked "Is there a set of instructions on how to fit the windows?".
[Reasonable question, as it is a good idea to know what is required before
you start, and any asssumptions made.]

The windows included on the label the size of the frame and the size of the
opening required.
The opening was 10mm wider than the frame and 80mm higher than the frame.
We asked "Why the extra height?".

Answers were "No" and "Don't know".
Further discussion - I can see that 30mm is for the cill but what is the
extra 50mm for - and we were told that the extra space was for the trickle
vent which was sold seperately and had to be fitted because of Building
Regulations.
40mm high strip that just clips on.
O.K. - the workshop is not a habitable room so this shouldn't apply.

It is nice to deal with mature people - a bonus in B&Q - because they
'borrowed' a set of instructions from a window so we could read them.
They then made a photocopy so we could take it away.
I did suggest that they might like to make a couple more for future
reference but I don't know if they did.
The other thing that they did was to show us the clip (another extra which
you wouldn't know about until you had read the instructions which were
sealed inside the window package) which clipped into the outside of the
frame and then protruded inwards (or optionally outwards) to be screwed to
the wall.

This was obviously a potential problem The window is expected to go into a
cavity wall opening so with a double skin wall there is plenty of depth.
We are building a single block wall so the opening is 100mm.
The frame is 60mm deep.
So if you sit the frame back into the opening (as is usual) you don't have
enough space at the back for the fixing.
Fortunately there is an alternative strategy - fit the brackets so they face
outwards, drill in at an angle of 70 degrees then cover the screw and
bracket with the silicone sealant bead you run round the outside.
Subject to further checking this may be a feasible option.

However there is another fly in the ointment.

We are looking at windows which are 905mm wide.
The dimensions on the package say that the opening should be 915mm wide.
The instructions say that there should be a 5mm gap all round - presumably
to allow for fine adjustment with packing to get the window exactly plumb,
also to provide some depth to fit the brackets.
Errrr.......
1 block is 440mm wide.
Mortar between blocks is 10mm.
A two block gap is therefore "Mortar-block-mortar-block-mortar" or
(10+440+10+440+10) which comes to 910mm.
The window requires a gap of 915mm.
......so why?

There seems to be no logic in that particular window sizing given the
accompanying instructions.
I am then left with the question "Can I build the opening to the tolerance
of 2.5mm each side, and if so will this be enough for any expansion and for
the brackets?".

Oh, and a supplementary.
Instructions suggest that the gap around the window is packed with foam
rubber to allow for expansion and contraction.
Foam rubber?
This is to be added after the window has been screwed into the opening and
all additional packing pieces (used to get the window true before fixing)
have been removed.
Do they mean squirty foam?
Or are there strips of foam rubber you push into the gaps before sealing
inside and out with frame sealant?

If anyone is interested I can scan the instructions in and post them on
photobucket - they provide useful information for anyone new to fitting
plastic windows.

Any information, as usual, gratefully received.

Cheers

Dave R

If you have the freedom to build the openings to fit the windows, I'd
have a look on eBay. There are an increasing number of listings of new
but mismeasured windows which often go for very low prices.

A

#If the instructions don't tell you how to do this, and you are set on
#off the shelf units, then buy somewhere else, like Wickes.

#Download the Wickes "how to" guides on replacement windows as a start.

Can't seem to find any guide about windows on the Wickes web site.
If you have a link that would be appreciated.

Last time I asked at Wickes (because their fitting guides for window
do indeed seem pretty good) I was told they'd stopped doing them.

I may still have a PDF if you're interested.

J^n

wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 9:23 am, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
Life is always complicated.
So is this post.

snip
#If you have the freedom to build the openings to fit the windows, I'd
#have a look on eBay. There are an increasing number of listings of new
#but mismeasured windows which often go for very low prices.

Tried looking on eBay but my requirements are now quite specific with
regards to width and I want a matching pair.
Also when I looked most items were collection only, which narrowed my
options somewhat.