The steel sunroof on the old Rover is pretty rotten and I've got a good
secondhand replacement. The rest of the bodywork is pretty good
considering it's 25 years old and has lived outside all its life. The
sunroof is a known problem, not available new and fetch high prices
secondhand.

It consists basically of a u section perimeter frame that the outer skin
is welded to. There is a rubber seal clamped to the frame by steel strips
on the other side of the seal, fixed to the frame by self tappers. On the
old one these steel strips are rotten too, as is the frame. From the
outside only a couple of paint blisters show.

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there will be
here. The seal is only partially effective and a tray underneath the roof
carries any water that gets past it to drains - one in each corner of the
car.

So I'm wondering about fitting plastic bushes to take the fixing screws.
The frame they screw into has no rear access, so it has to be something
like a self tapper. Snag is the self tappers are tiny. Perhaps only 3mm
threads. And quite short - there isn't much depth to the frame.
You can get this sort of bush for other things around the car - like say
numberplate fixings where the plate is fixed direct to the bodywork. But
all the ones I can find are for much larger screws.

Any suggestions?

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Feb 6, 1:29 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
The steel sunroof on the old Rover is pretty rotten and I've got a good
secondhand replacement. The rest of the bodywork is pretty good
considering it's 25 years old and has lived outside all its life. The
sunroof is a known problem, not available new and fetch high prices
secondhand.

It consists basically of a u section perimeter frame that the outer skin
is welded to. There is a rubber seal clamped to the frame by steel strips
on the other side of the seal, fixed to the frame by self tappers. On the
old one these steel strips are rotten too, as is the frame. From the
outside only a couple of paint blisters show.

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there will be
here.

substitute stainless self tappers and s/steel strips?

JimK

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The steel sunroof on the old Rover is pretty rotten and I've got a good
secondhand replacement. The rest of the bodywork is pretty good
considering it's 25 years old and has lived outside all its life. The
sunroof is a known problem, not available new and fetch high prices
secondhand.

It consists basically of a u section perimeter frame that the outer skin
is welded to. There is a rubber seal clamped to the frame by steel strips
on the other side of the seal, fixed to the frame by self tappers. On the
old one these steel strips are rotten too, as is the frame. From the
outside only a couple of paint blisters show.

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there will be
here. The seal is only partially effective and a tray underneath the roof
carries any water that gets past it to drains - one in each corner of the
car.

So I'm wondering about fitting plastic bushes to take the fixing screws.
The frame they screw into has no rear access, so it has to be something
like a self tapper. Snag is the self tappers are tiny. Perhaps only 3mm
threads. And quite short - there isn't much depth to the frame.
You can get this sort of bush for other things around the car - like say
numberplate fixings where the plate is fixed direct to the bodywork. But
all the ones I can find are for much larger screws.

Any suggestions?

I have had old Rovers, but never one with a sun roof, so I am having
difficulty visualising the construction you are describing.

From what you have written about it, I suspect that the problems are
going to come about from water ingress.

When aircraft are put together a layer, called an interfey (sp OK) is
painted on for this very purpose. I think your solution might lay in
this area.

The car the wife drives developed a leak from somewhere near the top of
the drivers door and the local ex Rover men would not look at it, but
did show me how everything came apart.

I got a sealant that I had liberated from my job and painted that on and
it cured the leak. Two coats in as many minutes.

The sealant, in another form (colour the only difference) used to be
used as an interfay. It is a pourable liquid, something about the
consistency of liquid gloss paint, so it should stay where it is put
while to put things back together. It dries very quickly when exposed to
the air and it smells a lot until it goes off. The use of copious
amounts of this might be your answer. Brush it into the self tapper
holes, by using a brush that you can pass in and out, leaving a reside
behind etc and generally make sure that if it can't be seen.

The product I have is PRC 1005 L. It is made by Products Research &
Chemicals, but I very much doubt that you will find it outside of the
aerospace industry.

Find your local sealant company and ask them if they can source
something similar. I did that with ours last year, when I wanted an
equivalent to Dow Corning's RTV 731, or 732, but in black. They knew
exactly what I was after and provide me with a cheaper copy.

HTH

Dave

In article
,
JimK wrote:
Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there will
be here.

substitute stainless self tappers and s/steel strips?

Sadly the strips are a pressing with a half round section to make them
more rigid, and to hold the outside edge of the seal in place. Way beyond
my skills to make.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
The steel sunroof on the old Rover is pretty rotten and I've got a
good secondhand replacement. The rest of the bodywork is pretty good
considering it's 25 years old and has lived outside all its life. The
sunroof is a known problem, not available new and fetch high prices
secondhand.

It consists basically of a u section perimeter frame that the outer
skin is welded to. There is a rubber seal clamped to the frame by
steel strips on the other side of the seal, fixed to the frame by
self tappers. On the old one these steel strips are rotten too, as is
the frame. From the outside only a couple of paint blisters show.

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there
will be here. The seal is only partially effective and a tray
underneath the roof carries any water that gets past it to drains -
one in each corner of the car.

So I'm wondering about fitting plastic bushes to take the fixing
screws. The frame they screw into has no rear access, so it has to be
something like a self tapper. Snag is the self tappers are tiny.
Perhaps only 3mm threads. And quite short - there isn't much depth to
the frame.
You can get this sort of bush for other things around the car - like
say numberplate fixings where the plate is fixed direct to the
bodywork. But all the ones I can find are for much larger screws.

Any suggestions?


I can't quite visualise the setup - but do you actually *need* the screws?
I'm wondering whether you could find a suitable adhesive to glue the strip
on - maybe using a few of the screws temporarily while the glue cures, and
then removing them and filling the holes.

If not, you could use stainless steel screws, as others have suggested. Even
if you can't make stainless strips, having stainless screws would be one
less thing to rust. I also wondered about replacing the screws with pop
rivets - but then you may get galvanic reaction from two different metals!
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Feb 6, 5:13 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
JimK wrote:

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there will
be here.
substitute stainless self tappers and s/steel strips?

Sadly the strips are a pressing with a half round section to make them
more rigid, and to hold the outside edge of the seal in place. Way beyond
my skills to make.

sections of appropriate diameter split stainless tube? (angle
grinder!!!! :)

JimK

On Feb 6, 6:20*pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:

wrote:
The steel sunroof on the old Rover is pretty rotten and I've got a
good secondhand replacement. The rest of the bodywork is pretty good
considering it's 25 years old and has lived outside all its life. The
sunroof is a known problem, not available new and fetch high prices
secondhand.

It consists basically of a u section perimeter frame that the outer
skin is welded to. There is a rubber seal clamped to the frame by
steel strips on the other side of the seal, fixed to the frame by
self tappers. On the old one these steel strips are rotten too, as is
the frame. From the outside only a couple of paint blisters show.

Now clamping two bits of steel together with self tappers direct into
steel is a recipe for corrosion if moisture is present - as there
will be here. The seal is only partially effective and a tray
underneath the roof carries any water that gets past it to drains -
one in each corner of the car.

So I'm wondering about fitting plastic bushes to take the fixing
screws. The frame they screw into has no rear access, so it has to be
something like a self tapper. Snag is the self tappers are tiny.
Perhaps only 3mm threads. And quite short - there isn't much depth to
the frame.
You can get this sort of bush for other things around the car - like
say numberplate fixings where the plate is fixed direct to the
bodywork. But all the ones I can find are for much larger screws.

Any suggestions?

I can't quite visualise the setup - but do you actually *need* the screws?
I'm wondering whether you could find a suitable adhesive to glue the strip
on - maybe using a few of the screws temporarily while the glue cures, and
then removing them and filling the holes.

If not, you could use stainless steel screws, as others have suggested. Even
if you can't make stainless strips, having stainless screws would be one
less thing to rust. I also wondered about replacing the screws with pop
rivets - but then you may get galvanic reaction from two different metals!
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Many, many, many years ago (like around the late 1940s or early 50s we
we had a problem with the leaking sliding roof of a 1934 Lanchester.
(Anybody remember them? last time I saw a Lanchester was a 1937/8 in
Sri Lanka, in 2005!)
Back when; rather than debate how to repair it we covered it over and
dispensed with it, to never open ever again. In that case it was
fairly easy choice because we needed to recover the whole roof with
some leatherette fabric. We also had some wood rot in one of the
rounded rear corners, we hand shaped a replacement for that. Must say
that polished up it looked pretty natty and it never leaked again!
Lost track of that vehicle in 1956 when emigrating!
An amusing angle to this story was that had gone all over Liverpool
(four or five places!) looking for the less than four square feet of
'flannelet fabric' to cover the inside of the now unfinished 'hole' in
the ceiling.No luck at all until, at one place, they said "No
flannelet. But tell you what, we do have some old car headliner from
before the war, that might do!". It did and it was also the right
colour (but newer!).
So suggestion; just fill it in? At that age shouldn't affect the value
or utility of the vehicle at all?
Best of luck with your project. Also BTW could you epoxy the
replacement in place????

In article
,
JimK wrote:
Sadly the strips are a pressing with a half round section to make them
more rigid, and to hold the outside edge of the seal in place. Way
beyond my skills to make.

sections of appropriate diameter split stainless tube? (angle
grinder!!!! :)

Sadly again not. On the flat side as it were the side ones are hockey
stick shaped. The front one curved.

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
terry wrote:
So suggestion; just fill it in? At that age shouldn't affect the value
or utility of the vehicle at all?

Filling in a steel sunroof would be even more work. Besides, I like it.
I'll have it open on quite cold days once the heater has come up to temp.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I can't quite visualise the setup - but do you actually *need* the
screws? I'm wondering whether you could find a suitable adhesive to
glue the strip on - maybe using a few of the screws temporarily while
the glue cures, and then removing them and filling the holes.

Might be possible - but there are guides at the front which raise the roof
as it reaches the closed position.

If not, you could use stainless steel screws, as others have suggested.
Even if you can't make stainless strips, having stainless screws would
be one less thing to rust. I also wondered about replacing the screws
with pop rivets - but then you may get galvanic reaction from two
different metals!

You can get 'galvanic' corrosion between the same materials - although it
takes rather longer. Something to do with different electro-chemical value?

As supplied by the dealer when new, the rear number plate was fixed direct
to the rear body panel with self tappers. After a few years the plate fell
off - the holes had enlarged to the point they no longer gripped the
screws. And corrosion had spread some way round the holes under the paint.
My newer BMW also has the plate mounted directly to the boot lid. But
there are plastic bushes to take the screws. And it's now much older than
the Rover was when its plate fell off.
Other things fixed to the body on the Rover use plastic bushes. The
stainless 'kick' plates on the sills, for example. No corrosion there -
despite getting lots of moisture etc being on the outer side of the door
seals.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Feb 7, 9:42 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
JimK wrote:

Sadly the strips are a pressing with a half round section to make them
more rigid, and to hold the outside edge of the seal in place. Way
beyond my skills to make.
sections of appropriate diameter split stainless tube? (angle
grinder!!!! :)

Sadly again not. On the flat side as it were the side ones are hockey
stick shaped. The front one curved.

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

seems a pic or two would be worth a thousand posts? :)

Roger Mills wrote:

I can't quite visualise the setup - but do you actually *need* the screws?
I'm wondering whether you could find a suitable adhesive to glue the strip
on - maybe using a few of the screws temporarily while the glue cures, and
then removing them and filling the holes.

If not, you could use stainless steel screws, as others have suggested. Even
if you can't make stainless strips, having stainless screws would be one
less thing to rust. I also wondered about replacing the screws with pop
rivets - but then you may get galvanic reaction from two different metals!

Proper pop rivets are made from monel metal and cadmium plated.The monel
metal is used so as not affect the aircraft compass and the cadmium
plating really does work. I had a rover 3500 (2000 body shape, prior to
this it was known as a 3.5 with a different body) and when I replaced
the exhaust I used cadmium plated nuts and bolts in it. The next time I
had to replace it, it was as if I had put the nuts and bolts in just the
week before.

Dave

JimK wrote:

seems a pic or two would be worth a thousand posts? :)

Indeed. I would be looking at rubbing strakes for boats - usually
stainless, or at least a salt-water-resistant alloy.

Andy