I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here. No
adapter was supplied in the retail pack. I do have a shaver-plug
adapter I can use it with, but the assembly is bulky, not particularly
robust, and as far as I'm concerned, wholly unsatisfactory compared with
a proper 3-pin wallwart. AFAICS it's simply a retail pack intended for
continental Europe rather than UK.

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Thanks
David

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here. No
adapter was supplied in the retail pack. I do have a shaver-plug
adapter I can use it with, but the assembly is bulky, not particularly
robust, and as far as I'm concerned, wholly unsatisfactory compared with
a proper 3-pin wallwart. AFAICS it's simply a retail pack intended for
continental Europe rather than UK.

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Thanks
David

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort . I've
had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2 pin plug
encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours ...the nearest
is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is actually plastic but
those are the square pin type of course .


Personally I'd just contact the Amazon seller or Amazon direct to
express your concerns ....

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort . I've
had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2 pin plug
encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours ...the nearest
is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is actually plastic but
those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them have)

Personally I'd just contact the Amazon seller or Amazon direct to
express your concerns ....

Oh I will - just wanted to ascertain the legalities first!

David

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:38:53 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort . I've
had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2 pin plug
encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours ...the nearest
is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is actually plastic but
those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them have)

Personally I'd just contact the Amazon seller or Amazon direct to
express your concerns ....

Oh I will - just wanted to ascertain the legalities first!

David

Maybe a call or message to Consumer Direct ( who have a website) to
ask but possibly not a good time to expect a quick response .

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:47:18 +0000, Usenet Nutter
wrote:

Maybe a call or message to Consumer Direct ( who have a website) to
ask but possibly not a good time to expect a quick response .

I found this on a PDF in a Forum

http://dropshipforum.co.uk/download....26a1b8 da42ec

"Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

This requires electrical appliances to be supplied pre-fitted with a
standard 3 pin plug which complies with
and bears the marking British Standard (BS) 1363. This is the type of
plug with protruding live and neutral
pins half sleeved with insulating material.
The plug does not have to be moulded on, but it does have to have the
correct fuse for the appliance. All
sockets (e.g. on mains extension leads), adaptors and similar devices
must meet British or European
Standards.
Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved
conversion 3 pin conversion plug has been fitted to it, enclosing the
2 pin plug. The conversion should only
be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:47:18 +0000, Usenet Nutter
wrote:

Maybe a call or message to Consumer Direct ( who have a website) to
ask but possibly not a good time to expect a quick response .

I found this on a PDF in a Forum

http://dropshipforum.co.uk/download....26a1b8 da42ec

"Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

This requires electrical appliances to be supplied pre-fitted with a
standard 3 pin plug which complies with
and bears the marking British Standard (BS) 1363. This is the type of
plug with protruding live and neutral
pins half sleeved with insulating material.
The plug does not have to be moulded on, but it does have to have the
correct fuse for the appliance. All
sockets (e.g. on mains extension leads), adaptors and similar devices
must meet British or European
Standards.
Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved
conversion 3 pin conversion plug has been fitted to it, enclosing the
2 pin plug. The conversion should only
be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Nice one - thanks a lot! Clearly this retailer is breaching that
regulation then....

David

On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together
with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me
one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon
thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort . I've
had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2 pin plug
encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours ...the nearest
is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is actually plastic but
those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Bill of Rights 1689

In message , Tim
Streater writes
On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together
with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me
one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon
thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort . I've
had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2 pin plug
encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours ...the nearest
is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is actually plastic but
those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

Why, is it made of chocolate ?

Its just a standard european 5A mains plug

--
geoff

Lobster wrote:
I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here.

JOOI does it have the CE mark?



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

geoff wrote:
In message , Tim
Streater writes
On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it
together with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the
retailer sending me one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know
whether the whole Amazon thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort .
I've had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2
pin plug encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours
...the nearest is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is
actually plastic but those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them
have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

Why, is it made of chocolate ?

No, but it includes tweezers, a nail file, a bottle opener........


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:55:01 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved conversion 3 pin conversion plug
has been fitted to it, enclosing the 2 pin plug. The conversion should
only be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Hum, I have a couple of mains adapters here (Motorola and HP) that
have a 13A conversion attachment both of which just clip on, no
screwdriver required. They are quite a firm fit though, not just
something using friction on the pins like a shaver adapter.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:55:01 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved conversion 3 pin conversion plug
has been fitted to it, enclosing the 2 pin plug. The conversion should
only be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Hum, I have a couple of mains adapters here (Motorola and HP) that
have a 13A conversion attachment both of which just clip on, no
screwdriver required. They are quite a firm fit though, not just
something using friction on the pins like a shaver adapter.

But those sort are generic 'bodies', aren't they?, that the relevant
country-specific mains adapters clip on to; as opposed to a full product
intended for a different market, used with an adapter.

David

On 27/12/2009 15:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
geoff wrote:
In messageKMOdnXzHJP1y5KrWnZ2dnUVZ7oxi4p2d@brightvie w.co.uk, Tim
writes
On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it
together with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the
retailer sending me one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know
whether the whole Amazon thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort .
I've had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2
pin plug encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours
...the nearest is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is
actually plastic but those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them
have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

Why, is it made of chocolate ?

No, but it includes tweezers, a nail file, a bottle opener........

Ha, you chaps are so sharp you'll cut yourselves on the included Swiss
army knife.

Its the protruding hexagonal plastic bit that made me think it might be
Swiss. It matches the hexagonal-shaped recessed Swiss three-pin socket.
The pin separation may well match other European sockets.

See here for a description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_plug#Type_J

which article will also indicate what a mess plugs are in general (US
ones were the worst, in my experience of living there).

Perhaps the OP can look at the unit and report what it says.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Bill of Rights 1689

In message , Tim
Streater writes
On 27/12/2009 15:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
geoff wrote:
In messageKMOdnXzHJP1y5KrWnZ2dnUVZ7oxi4p2d@brightvie w.co.uk, Tim
writes
On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it
together with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the
retailer sending me one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know
whether the whole Amazon thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort .
I've had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2
pin plug encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours
...the nearest is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is
actually plastic but those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them
have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

Why, is it made of chocolate ?

No, but it includes tweezers, a nail file, a bottle opener........

Ha, you chaps are so sharp you'll cut yourselves on the included Swiss
army knife.

Its the protruding hexagonal plastic bit that made me think it might be
Swiss. It matches the hexagonal-shaped recessed Swiss three-pin socket.

The chocolate earth pin seems to have melted ...


--
geoff

Tim Streater wrote:
On 27/12/2009 15:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
geoff wrote:
In messageKMOdnXzHJP1y5KrWnZ2dnUVZ7oxi4p2d@brightvie w.co.uk, Tim
writes
On 27/12/2009 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin
plug like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it
together with a shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the
retailer sending me one of those as a 'solution'!). I don't know
whether the whole Amazon thing affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

Probably just a batch that ended up in the wrong country .When you
say" wallwart" I am guessing it is a power supply of some sort .
I've had items with a normal 3 pin plug on which is actually a 2
pin plug encased in a 3 pin adaptor but not had one like yours
...the nearest is something with a 3 pin plug where the earth is
actually plastic but those are the square pin type of course .

Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them
have)

That looks like a Swiss one to me ...

It was only meant to be an example pic to show the general type (ie tw
round non-removable pins...)

See here for a description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_plug#Type_J

which article will also indicate what a mess plugs are in general (US
ones were the worst, in my experience of living there).

Perhaps the OP can look at the unit and report what it says.

Not sure what I'm looking for!; it just gives the model no etc
(J34676-001). It has the CE mark, JVC branding (as per the headphones)
and the model number is referred to in the manual (page 33 of the pdf
file: http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/0...0/XC048ien.pdf
So no doubt it's kosher and correct; just not if you're in the UK!

Actually - slightly odd; wouldn't you expect the model number of the PSU
to vary according to the mains pin configuration? Because the model
number of the PSU in the English section of the manual is exactly the
same as what's printed on the PSU, ie which is 2-pin and therefore not
intended for the UK...

David

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here. No
adapter was supplied in the retail pack. I do have a shaver-plug
adapter I can use it with, but the assembly is bulky, not particularly
robust, and as far as I'm concerned, wholly unsatisfactory compared with
a proper 3-pin wallwart. AFAICS it's simply a retail pack intended for
continental Europe rather than UK.

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this? If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!). I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Thanks
David

From a recent chat with Trading Standards on the same subject of a PC
World printer with a two pin job, the only items that they allow with
these funny plugs are items like toiletry kit, shavers, toothbrushes
and such. Mainly due to the huge UK plug making packing them for
travel a bit difficult.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Thanks
David

From a recent chat with Trading Standards on the same subject of a PC
World printer with a two pin job, the only items that they allow with
these funny plugs are items like toiletry kit, shavers, toothbrushes
and such. Mainly due to the huge UK plug making packing them for
travel a bit difficult.


I would think the main reason is because people generally don't have a 13A 3
pin plug in their bathroom, they have an isolation transformer with a 2 pin
"shaver" socket on!

In message , Toby
writes


Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Thanks
David

From a recent chat with Trading Standards on the same subject of a PC
World printer with a two pin job, the only items that they allow with
these funny plugs are items like toiletry kit, shavers, toothbrushes
and such. Mainly due to the huge UK plug making packing them for
travel a bit difficult.


I would think the main reason is because people generally don't have a
13A 3 pin plug in their bathroom, they have an isolation transformer
with a 2 pin "shaver" socket on!


UK 2 pin plugs have different diameter pins to european ones

--
geoff

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:50:54 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:55:01 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved conversion 3 pin conversion plug
has been fitted to it, enclosing the 2 pin plug. The conversion should
only be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Hum, I have a couple of mains adapters here (Motorola and HP) that
have a 13A conversion attachment both of which just clip on, no
screwdriver required. They are quite a firm fit though, not just
something using friction on the pins like a shaver adapter.

If they're like the ones I've seen, they are not an adapter converting a
European type plug, they are a removeable part of the device, to allow it
to be used in various countries - ie: after removing the "adapter" part,
you cannot plug it into any standard socket without refitting another type
of adapter. This regulation isn't therefore applicable.

SteveW

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:50:54 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:55:01 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

Should the appliance be fitted with a European 2 pin plug then it may
only be supplied provided an approved conversion 3 pin conversion plug
has been fitted to it, enclosing the 2 pin plug. The conversion should
only be able to be removed via means of a screwdriver etc."

Hum, I have a couple of mains adapters here (Motorola and HP) that have
a 13A conversion attachment both of which just clip on, no screwdriver
required. They are quite a firm fit though, not just something using
friction on the pins like a shaver adapter.

I have some mains adaptors for just these things. Not pretty; in the
shape of a 13A plug with a hexagonal hole where the flex normally goes.
Poke the pins in there and tighten the locking screws. There are variants
with 'never undo' screws (ramps rather than slots in the heads).
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:38:53 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this?

I thought that a requirement had come into force a few years back,
that any electrical item sold here and for use here, had to be
supplied with the appropriate plug. Before that it used to be you
either had to cut off the two pin one and get a 3 pin one from
Woolies.

Ask trading standards when they reopen.

In article ,
Lobster writes:
I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here. No
adapter was supplied in the retail pack. I do have a shaver-plug
adapter I can use it with, but the assembly is bulky, not particularly
robust, and as far as I'm concerned, wholly unsatisfactory compared with
a proper 3-pin wallwart. AFAICS it's simply a retail pack intended for
continental Europe rather than UK.

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this?

Illegal (but common from eBay/Amazon sellers).

If not, would it be permissible to sell it together with a
shaver-plug adapter? (just pre-empting the retailer sending me one of
those as a 'solution'!).

There are adapters available which are legal for this purpose, and if
supplied with one, it would then be legal. The only legal ones I've seen
hinge shut over a European 2 pin plug and include a BS1362 fuse. It's
designed to be permanently fitted, and not added/removed like you would
a regular adapter. I don't think these would work for a wallwart with
integral 2-pin plug. Importers will normally source wallwarts separately
for each country, or use ones with interchangable plug parts. (It's not
illegal to supply the wrong plug in addition to the right one.)

I don't know whether the whole Amazon thing
affects any of this, either.

It applies even to second-hand sales.

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

Plugs and Sockets Act (I forget the year).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:20:09 +0000, no-one
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:38:53 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:

So before I approach the retailer I'm curious to know whether it's
actually legal to sell electrical equipment here with only a 2-pin plug
like this?

I thought that a requirement had come into force a few years back,
that any electrical item sold here and for use here, had to be
supplied with the appropriate plug.

Only for domestic items.

Commercial items can be sold without a plug.

Things that spring to mind are theatre lamps, professional welding
sets and so on.

--
Frank Erskine

Lobster wrote in
:

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

The Plugs and Sockets etc.(Safety) Regulations 1994
Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1768

Search for the text of the Regs on the Statute Law Database he
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

Kind regards
--
Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

On 28 Dec 2009 02:21:58 GMT, Richard Perkin
wrote:

Lobster wrote in
:

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

The Plugs and Sockets etc.(Safety) Regulations 1994
Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1768


Which I mentioned yesterday but someone else has suggested does not
apply to the OP's case .I have no idea why not if he is right ?

Lobster :
I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

Although this was purchased in the UK for use in the UK (from UK-based
Amazon seller), the wall wart is a round 2-pin sort, ie as used in
continental Europe and as would fit in a shaver socket over here.
[...]
Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online which
I can quote, that would be great!

First you should check the item description on Amazon's site to make
sure that it wasn't your mistake. Non-UK-plugged items are available
from UK sites and I've bought some in the past (phone chargers, for
instance).

Then contact the seller directly, tell them that the goods were not as
described and ask for a replacement or refund. Be nice to them, work on
the assumption it was an error that they'll be happy put right. I'm sure
you'll have no difficulty getting satisfaction. Quoting the law at this
stage would do no good and might put their backs up. If you don't want
to accept an adapter (I wouldn't either) that would not be an acceptable
solution IMO.

If the seller doesn't play ball your next port of call is Amazon's web
site. You might be eligible for protection under the Safe Buying
Guarantee. But I'd be amazed if the matter got that far without being
resolved.

--
Mike Barnes

Usenet Nutter wrote in
:

On 28 Dec 2009 02:21:58 GMT, Richard Perkin

wrote:

Lobster wrote in
:

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

The Plugs and Sockets etc.(Safety) Regulations 1994
Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1768


Which I mentioned yesterday but someone else has suggested does not
apply to the OP's case .I have no idea why not if he is right ?

My reading of the Regs (but IANAL) is that it does apply. The
exclusions stated do not apply; if the device is fitted with a Euro
plug, then it should be supplied with an adapter which covers the
pins. It's in the text of the Regs, but the Explanatory Notes at the
end (which do not themselves form part of the legislation) explain
the intent:

"The requirement to fit a fused standard plug does not apply to
appliances which are correctly fitted with a non–UK plug complying
with the safety provisions of the International Electrotechnical
Commission standard IEC 884–1 (1987) and fitted with a conversion
plug of a type approved for use with such a non–UK plug which
encloses the fitted non–UK plug and can only be removed by the use of
a tool. Requirements similar to those governing the approval of
standard plugs apply to the approval of conversion plugs (regulation
12).

Part II prohibits persons from supplying, offering to supply,
agreeing to supply, exposing for supply or possessing for supply any
appliance to which that Part applies but which does not comply with
its requirements. However, it does not prohibit any person from
possessing for supply an appliance at any time before it is first
supplied, offered for supply or exposed for supply in the UK, or
before it is first agreed to supply it in the UK, which has been
imported into the UK and which does not comply with the requirements
of Part II (regulation 12)."

Kind regards
--
Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

On 27 Dec, 14:38, Lobster wrote:
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:08:43 +0000, Lobster
wrote:


Yes, looks like this one:
http://www.beobod.wanadoo.co.uk/images/wn20u.jpg (and there's
definitely no facility for interchangeable pins as some of them have)


You need to get a 'Schuko' (German-type socket) adaptor for that, it
has a 2-pin socket in a circular recess with grooves to hold the body
of the 2-pin plug.

On 28 Dec 2009 11:27:27 GMT, Richard Perkin wrote:

Usenet Nutter wrote in
:

On 28 Dec 2009 02:21:58 GMT, Richard Perkin

wrote:

Lobster wrote in
:

Also, if anyone could point me at any relevant legislation online
which I can quote, that would be great!

The Plugs and Sockets etc.(Safety) Regulations 1994
Statutory Instrument 1994 No. 1768


Which I mentioned yesterday but someone else has suggested does not
apply to the OP's case .I have no idea why not if he is right ?

My reading of the Regs (but IANAL) is that it does apply. The
exclusions stated do not apply; if the device is fitted with a Euro
plug, then it should be supplied with an adapter which covers the
pins. It's in the text of the Regs, but the Explanatory Notes at the
end (which do not themselves form part of the legislation) explain
the intent:

"The requirement to fit a fused standard plug does not apply to
appliances which are correctly fitted with a non–UK plug complying
with the safety provisions of the International Electrotechnical
Commission standard IEC 884–1 (1987) and fitted with a conversion
plug of a type approved for use with such a non–UK plug which
encloses the fitted non–UK plug and can only be removed by the use of
a tool. Requirements similar to those governing the approval of
standard plugs apply to the approval of conversion plugs (regulation
12).

Part II prohibits persons from supplying, offering to supply,
agreeing to supply, exposing for supply or possessing for supply any
appliance to which that Part applies but which does not comply with
its requirements. However, it does not prohibit any person from
possessing for supply an appliance at any time before it is first
supplied, offered for supply or exposed for supply in the UK, or
before it is first agreed to supply it in the UK, which has been
imported into the UK and which does not comply with the requirements
of Part II (regulation 12)."

Kind regards

I suggested that they will not apply to certain wall warts, as Dave
Liquorice mentioned Motorola and HP and I have seen both phone and computer
wall warts that as supplied will not plug into any standard socket anywhere
in the world, but have a number of clip-on adapters that allow them to be
used in a variety of sockets. This is obviously not the type of adapters
that the regulations are aimed at, they are instead an equivalent to the
mains plug/lead/figure-eight plug arrangement that connects many PSUs to
the mains and are easily removeable as such devices not only need to be
supplied to many countries, but are also used by travellers and need to
simply unclip with no tools.

SteveW

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:56:17 +0000, Steve Walker wrote:

I suggested that they will not apply to certain wall warts, as Dave
Liquorice mentioned Motorola and HP and I have seen both phone and
computer wall warts that as supplied will not plug into any standard
socket anywhere in the world,

At least one of the two wallwarts I have with clip on 13A adpaters
has the connections between wart and adapter suspiciously similar to
the US two flat blades connector. These hinge to be flush with the
wart when used with a clip-on adapter or stick out to plug into a
socket...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:18:36 +0000, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Quoting the law at this stage would do no good

As he has no legal leg to stand on quoting it at any stage would be
rather pointless. He didn't buy the goods so he has no contractual
relationship with the seller.

On 27 Dec, 18:36, geoff wrote:
UK 2 pin plugs have different diameter pins to european ones

Indeed. You can sometimes get away with plugging a European mains
plug into a shaver socket, but it won't be reliable or secure. A
shaver or toothbrush won't plug into a standard European socket at
all.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

On 29/12/2009 09:31, Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:18:36 +0000, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Quoting the law at this stage would do no good

As he has no legal leg to stand on quoting it at any stage would be
rather pointless. He didn't buy the goods so he has no contractual
relationship with the seller.

I was under the impression that the SOGA applies if the buyer informed
the seller that it was being bought as a gift?

And is this relevant?

The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999

Before this law was passed and came fully into force on 11 May 2000 only
the buyer and the seller had rights in contract under 'privity of
contract'. This legislation gives rights to anyone who was intended to
benefit from the transaction.

For example if someone buys a gift for a friend and the gift proves to
be faulty the recipient or the buyer of the gift can take action for
breach of contract (however it must be obvious that the goods are to be
for the benefit of a 3rd party.)

http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/public/editable/themes/healthy-city/eh/trading-standards/sale-and-supply-of-goods-and-services.asp

--
Rod

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:34:21 +0000, Rod
wrote:

On 29/12/2009 09:31, Peter Parry wrote:

As he has no legal leg to stand on quoting it at any stage would be
rather pointless. He didn't buy the goods so he has no contractual
relationship with the seller.

I was under the impression that the SOGA applies if the buyer informed
the seller that it was being bought as a gift?

The legislation you quoted was primarily aimed at commercial contracts
and allows a third party in a contract who is not party to it to
benefit from the contract under certain specific conditions.

For it to apply the original contract must identify the third party by
name or description and both parties must agree to the third party
involvement. It is not enough to say to an operator at the checkout
"this is a present for my mate". The chances of the original
purchaser having informed the seller that "this item is being
purchased for Fred Bloggs to whom I transfer my rights as purchaser,
do you agree?" and the seller then agreeing to that term are, to put
it mildly, small.

The third party's right of enforcement is also subject to the
contract's terms and conditions and most companies protect themselves
against the inadvertent granting of third party rights by specifically
excluding the 1999 Act in their standard T's*C's.

And is this relevant?

It is a piece of legislation which, in most cases, does not alter the
lack of contractual relationship between the recipient of a present
and the original seller in any practical way.

Rod wrote:
On 29/12/2009 09:31, Peter Parry wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:18:36 +0000, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Quoting the law at this stage would do no good

As he has no legal leg to stand on quoting it at any stage would be
rather pointless. He didn't buy the goods so he has no contractual
relationship with the seller.

I was under the impression that the SOGA applies if the buyer informed
the seller that it was being bought as a gift?

Well, "Wott-evva" as my kids would say: in fact the gift was from the
OP's SWMBO so not a problem for the purchaser to whinge to the retailer
direct!

David

Lobster wrote:
I've just been given a set of cordless headphones for Xmas; it comes
with a base station powered from a wallwart.

(x-posted to uk.tech.digital-tv with the new query!)

The plot thickens...!

These object of me getting these headphones was to use them on a TV (I
watch the telly while on the rowing machine in order to stave off the
abject boredom, and apparently I have the TV volume so high - to drown
out rowing sounds - that it disturbs the neighbours). Said TV has no
headphone socket, but does have SCART and RCA line outputs. The
headphone transmitter box comes with a 3.5mm jackplug plus a Y-adapter
to two RCA plugs.

However, I can get no sound out of the phones at all when connected
through the RCA plugs; I've replicated this on other AV equipment and
also verified that they work fine when plugged in via the 3.5mm jack.

Now I'm aware that line outputs are lower voltage than headphone sockets
and won't drive standard plug-in headphones; however I've read in
several places that they *will* work with cordless headphones. The
manual for my set
(http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/0...0/XC048ien.pdf) makes no
mention of this issue, but does show a diagram of them connected up
using RCA sockets, and furthermore the Y-adapter is provided; which
surely implies that what I'm attempting should work?

Any comments please?

Thanks
David

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:35:09 -0800, Owain wrote:
(b) Is there a separate volume setting for the line outputs somewhere
in the setup menu?

I wondered that - or even an outright mute. Maybe the OP has something
other than the headphones he can connect to them to verify that they're
working at all?

To complicate things further, the last TV I had in the UK was some
Ferguson piece of junk - ISTR it had RCA outputs, but various sound
'profiles' could be selected via the remote to change speaker configs, and
the RCA outputs weren't enabled for every profile.

If you use a separate digi box then that may have phono/RCA outputs as
well as SCART, or you can use a splitter to split out an audio signal on
phono from the SCART connection.

I wonder if the TV can run either the RCA or audio via SCART, but not
both? In other words, if it thinks there's something connected via SCART,
maybe it's disabling the RCA outputs altogether.

cheers

Jules

Owain wrote:
On 29 Dec, 19:17, Lobster wrote:
These object of me getting these headphones was to use them on a TV (I
watch the telly while on the rowing machine in order to stave off the
abject boredom, and apparently I have the TV volume so high - to drown
out rowing sounds - that it disturbs the neighbours). Said TV has no
headphone socket, but does have SCART and RCA line outputs.

(a) Are you *sure* they're outputs?

A very good point! I had certainly asssumed so, I suppose on the basis
that I don't possess a camcorder but do have a separate surround-sound
speaker system on my main TV in the living room; ergo I hadn't
considered the possibility of an input to the TV.

Have now connected the phones to what is evidently bidirectional SCART
socket via an another adapter, and all is now well with the world. Many
thanks for the help!

David