In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ill.co.uk...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:48:02 +0000, Bernard Peek wrote:

The "Warm Front" grants kick in when anyone in the house is 60. They
will pay for draughtproofing, double-glazing, cavity-wall insulation,
loft insulation and central heating. You can apply online.

But do a search on Warmfront here first... Too many cowboys doing the
work that you have no option but to use. There is no mechanisium for
you to choose your own known and trusted trades person to do the
work.

However they do thousands of homes and you only get a few here complaining.
They did a good job on my dads.

Don't you know who your father is then den ?


It did cost me a £100 extra to have a towel rail fitted as an extra.

Too much information

--
geoff

Roger Dewhurst wrote:
whiskeyomega wrote:

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
"whiskeyomega" @invalid
wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 09:38


We would also have to have a water meter and we would still have
storage
heaters as they have no mains gas allowed there either - I think
that was
for safety reasons for the elderly.

They could have central heating if they wanted?...

No, thats my whole point. We would still have storage heaters as CH.
I cant see a good reason for moving to that.

I have suggested a bungalow with gas but he doesn't want that.

Oh and he doesn't want neighbours either. Currently we have one
neighbour. In town we would have loads. I dont see his reasoning. He
seems brainwashed by stupid TV ads and economic issues - like
redundancy and no money and such and he thinks those things affect us
when they do not.

Have you thought about a dehumidifier? Much the same price as a
heater from an appliance shop and VERY much better at getting rid of
the damp.

And generates heat that HWMBO'd will not countenance!

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:43:16 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

Soddit. Get the heating on now. Once the place is warmed through,
it
won't take as much energy to keep it warm as it takes to get it
there.

Bending the laws of physics I see.

Wrong. In the warming up phase the fabric of the building will
require energy to heat it up. Once in a steady state the energy
required to maintain that state will be less as the fabric is no
longer absorbing heat to raise it's temperature.

Ah choosing a special case where you heat it up and turn it off once the
temp is reached is the only time it is true.
It does state maintaining it there.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:43:16 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

Soddit. Get the heating on now. Once the place is warmed through,
it
won't take as much energy to keep it warm as it takes to get it
there.

Bending the laws of physics I see.

Wrong. In the warming up phase the fabric of the building will
require energy to heat it up. Once in a steady state the energy
required to maintain that state will be less as the fabric is no
longer absorbing heat to raise it's temperature.

Its Dennis the dim - what do you expect ?

Its easy to prove that you are the one that's wrong.
Energy loss is higher with higher temp differences.
The steady state has a higher temp difference so it *must* lose more energy,
QED.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec, 21:00, "dennis@home" wrote:
But do a search on Warmfront here first... Too many cowboys doing the
work that you have no option but to use.
However they do thousands of homes and you only get a few here
complaining.

And people here would have rather higher standards than most.

I've just done an "Energy Awareness" course and programmable
thermostats weren't even mentioned.

Heating systems are dumbed down so that the installers can do so.
I would never accept a system that used TRVs to achieve its main controls
for instance.
Then you get the silly "plans" which are just dumbed down ways of explaining
logic circuits.

"Owain" wrote in message
...


The things I learned on the course include:

There's no such thing as a condensing boiler which isn't a combi
Room thermostats control the pump
You can tell a boiler is a combi because it has a water pressure gauge

And some confusion over whether solar can do central heating or is
only for DHW.

Did they teach anything that was true?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Owain wrote:

On 24 Dec, 19:04, "dennis@home" wrote:
I've just done an "Energy Awareness" course and programmable
thermostats weren't even mentioned.
Heating systems are dumbed down so that the installers can do so.
I would never accept a system that used TRVs to achieve its main
controls for instance.
Then you get the silly "plans" which are just dumbed down ways of
explaining logic circuits.

The things I learned on the course include:

There's no such thing as a condensing boiler which isn't a combi
Room thermostats control the pump
You can tell a boiler is a combi because it has a water pressure gauge

And some confusion over whether solar can do central heating or is
only for DHW.

Owain


I hope you didn't have to *pay* to attend that!

Or was it a punishment for squandering energy, in the same vein as a speed
awareness course for those caught doing thirty-one-and-a-half in a 30 limit?
g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message o.uk,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:43:16 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

Soddit. Get the heating on now. Once the place is warmed through,
it
won't take as much energy to keep it warm as it takes to get it
there.

Bending the laws of physics I see.

Wrong. In the warming up phase the fabric of the building will
require energy to heat it up. Once in a steady state the energy
required to maintain that state will be less as the fabric is no
longer absorbing heat to raise it's temperature.

Its Dennis the dim - what do you expect ?

Its easy to prove that you are the one that's wrong.
Energy loss is higher with higher temp differences.
The steady state has a higher temp difference so it *must* lose more
energy, QED.


Rubbish, you eejit

The heat loss of a well insulated house at temperature is much less than
the energy required to raise the temperature of the fabric of the
building. There is still a delta T loss which is increasing as the
building comes up to temperature

Go on then - do the calculation and present it here, since it is, as you
say, easy to prove



--
geoff

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ill.co.uk...
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:43:16 -0000, dennis@home wrote:

Soddit. Get the heating on now. Once the place is warmed through,
it
won't take as much energy to keep it warm as it takes to get it
there.

Bending the laws of physics I see.

Wrong. In the warming up phase the fabric of the building will
require energy to heat it up. Once in a steady state the energy
required to maintain that state will be less as the fabric is no
longer absorbing heat to raise it's temperature.

Ah choosing a special case where you heat it up and turn it off once
the temp is reached is the only time it is true.
It does state maintaining it there.


The special case he mentioned is what we have in the real world denboi

But you didn't even seem to be able to read what he wrote - where did he
say about turning off ?

--
geoff

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:45:25 +1300, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
The well has more than adequate flow rate, and for the first time ever I
found water that "tastes nice". Means no water bills of course (but
factoring in the cost of a new well every 25 years or so, it works out
about half the price of typical main water bills)

You should not need a new well every 25 years, whatever the well driller
tells you. What you need is a water level sensor that keep you informed
as to the standing water level and the dynamic level when pumping. When
the dynamic level drops noticeably it is time to re-develop the well.
That means blowing it out with compressed air or surging with a plunger
to open up the screen and, if there is one, the gravel pack.

I'd actually wondered if they can be back-flushed to clear out accumulated
debris (because gradual clogging of the screens seems to be what kills
them, long before they rust out). I'm not sure it's possible for ours
though - which is about 80' deep, but with the pump mounted at the
surface (the pump delivers a portion of the pumped water back down a
secondary pipe to the base of the well, and some form of venturi-effect
head is used to get water back up the main 2" pipe).

It's done 24 years now, so in theory is getting on in lifespan - but
there's no sign of it giving up yet; it still seems capable enough. The
surface-pump dates from 1977, but that still functions quite happily. If
flow starts going off I can always pump slowly into a large holding tank
and have another pump drawing water from that tank for house supply - but
I suppose failure mode might be that one day it just stops working
altogether over a very short space of time.

cheers

Jules

Hi OW - I cannot really add anything to all the good comments that
have gone before, other than that I was forcibly retired at 63;
forcibly in that carrying on was not good sense financially. At 63
that was relatively easy to accept.

What I'm coming round to is your husband's early retirement seems to
have hit him hard, and unlike myself who welcomed it as an opportunity
to extend all my hobbies, it would seem that he hasn't seen it this
way, and is taking it as rejection.

I do think the advise to go and discuss what does seems like
depression with your GP is a good one. Yes, your husband needs to
acknowledge it, but the GP should be able to give you methods to help
him with that.

The other thing is that the Rainy Day has come as I think you
recognise; your husband's income will improve in 5+ year's time when
he gets the state pension, but what actually is the purpose of the
money he is setting currently aside? The amount is not that
significant and the return equally isn't either in terms of daily
living, so it would be better spent improving your 'now' life.

All the best
Rob

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:45:25 +1300, Roger Dewhurst wrote:
The well has more than adequate flow rate, and for the first time ever I
found water that "tastes nice". Means no water bills of course (but
factoring in the cost of a new well every 25 years or so, it works out
about half the price of typical main water bills)
You should not need a new well every 25 years, whatever the well driller
tells you. What you need is a water level sensor that keep you informed
as to the standing water level and the dynamic level when pumping. When
the dynamic level drops noticeably it is time to re-develop the well.
That means blowing it out with compressed air or surging with a plunger
to open up the screen and, if there is one, the gravel pack.

I'd actually wondered if they can be back-flushed to clear out accumulated
debris (because gradual clogging of the screens seems to be what kills
them, long before they rust out).

That is the normal practice. It is called re-development. There is a
chemical which will de-flocculate the clays and speed up redevelopment.
I forget the name.

I'm not sure it's possible for ours
though - which is about 80' deep, but with the pump mounted at the
surface (the pump delivers a portion of the pumped water back down a
secondary pipe to the base of the well, and some form of venturi-effect
head is used to get water back up the main 2" pipe).

The well should have a stainless steel screen. With an 80' deep well
you can use uPVC casing which is much cheaper than steel and will last
forever. The screen should be telescoped inside the casing. When the
time comes get an electro submersible pump. Much cheaper to run, a few
pennies per cubic metre for the electricity.

R

R