I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored..
Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks. PLEASE REPLY TO
NEWSGROUP!

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Like you getting only £300. It's mentioned only as an expected
announcement on the BBC News website but no details
http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal.net/news/news.asp?id=6532&title=Victory+for+merchant's+boil er+scrappage+scheme

http://reheatbritain.org.uk/news

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
David WE Roberts wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the BBC
news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Like you getting only £300. It's mentioned only as an expected
announcement on the BBC News website but no details
http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal.net/news/news.asp?id=6532&title=Victory+for+merchant's+boil er+scrappage+scheme

http://reheatbritain.org.uk/news

Or £300 from this POS

http://www.warmfront.co.uk/heating-rebate-scheme.htm

Adam

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

...like only being able to claim via a registered contractor maybe....

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.

Also it's only going to benefit 100,000 households from something
over 4,000,000 out there.

Looks good but ****ing in the wind again.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:55:26 +0000, Mike Harrison
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

..like only being able to claim via a registered contractor maybe....


The catch is that the cost of boiler replacement will go up by a sum
not unadjacent to £300.

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:37:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.


http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainabili...ers%20List.xls

My old boiler (a Kingfisher is listed) ..Just come 2 years too late
for me .

Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:37:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy!g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.


http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainabili...ers%20List.xls

My old boiler (a Kingfisher is listed) ..Just come 2 years too late
for me .
Thanks for the link.
My boiler is on there - good! but I wonder if they will rebate against
the base cost of the boiler and allow a diy install plus professional
commissioning.
Bob

"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:37:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.


http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainabili...ers%20List.xls

My old boiler (a Kingfisher is listed) ..Just come 2 years too late
for me .

Thanks - my boiler make and model is listed but the ID number is different
so I may be out of luck :-(

Bruce wrote:

The catch is that the cost of boiler replacement will go up by a sum
not unadjacent to £300.

Exactly. Plus there aren't any new boilers that will provide anything
like the lifespan of many of those on the list or be as reliable. If you
are tempted by the £300, then put the same aside each year for
depreciation, plus half as much again for servicing and likely faults.
The only beneficiaries are going to be the boiler manufacturers and
installers. 15% gas savings is peanuts in comparison.

Andy C

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
David WE Roberts wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the BBC
news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.
--
Cheers,
Roger


There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you would
expect)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

I wonder why Mr Bentley, the managing director of British Gas, welcomes such
a **** idea.

Adam

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
Usenet Nutter wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:37:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy!g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.


http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainabili...ers%20List.xls

My old boiler (a Kingfisher is listed) ..Just come 2 years too late
for me .
Thanks for the link.
My boiler is on there - good! but I wonder if they will rebate against the
base cost of the boiler and allow a diy install plus professional
commissioning.
Bob

Rearrange the following word to answer your question.

oN.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:


I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the
BBC news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.

There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you would
expect)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

I wonder why Mr Bentley, the managing director of British Gas, welcomes
such a **** idea.

;-)

The bit that caught my eye was:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

Does anyone have figures to hand to say how much electricity the £900
represents (at the inflated price paid for green energy) and how big a
wind farm they would need at say an optimistic 20% load factor or how
big an array of photoelectric panels to achieve the say output.

David WE Roberts wrote:

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in
for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Well the first one I've spotted from the reheatbritain.org site is
that it's G rated boilers only. Who knows the rating of their boiler
for a start.


http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainabili...ers%20List.xls


My old boiler (a Kingfisher is listed) ..Just come 2 years too late
for me .

Thanks - my boiler make and model is listed but the ID number is
different so I may be out of luck :-(

Look on the bright side. You are probably not eligible for a scam
designed to maximise the profits the chancellor's chums and furthermore
improve his tax yield as well.

FWIW my 18 year old boiler isn't on the list either which must come as a
bit of a shock to Dribble who thinks anything with a cast iron heat
exchanger is no more than 50% efficient.

"Roger Chapman" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:


I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the
BBC news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.

There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you would
expect)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

I wonder why Mr Bentley, the managing director of British Gas, welcomes
such a **** idea.

;-)

The bit that caught my eye was:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

Mr Mahon, chief investment officer at venture capital investor Low Carbon
Accelerator, said "These measures will be a real stimulus to growth for low
carbon businesses in the UK next year".

As he prepared to wank into his next bank statement.

http://www.lowcarbonaccelerator.com/...jsp?page=mahon

Adam

On 9 Dec, 16:30, Roger Chapman wrote:

Does anyone have figures to hand to say how much electricity the £900
represents (at the inflated price paid for green energy) and how big a
wind farm they would need at say an optimistic 20% load factor or how
big an array of photoelectric panels to achieve the say output.

We had some greenwashing at work last week, with helpful advice on how
to compost your car etc. They also had a bunch of leaflets from the
CO2 Trust, some of which (heat pumps) were pretty good, other (PV
generation) ludicrous. On their own figures, PV has a working life ot
25 years, break-even for interest-free payback with full grant support
in around 40 years.

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:30:37 +0000, Roger Chapman wrote:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

Does anyone have figures to hand to say how much electricity the £900
represents (at the inflated price paid for green energy) and how big a
wind farm they would need at say an optimistic 20% load factor or how
big an array of photoelectric panels to achieve the say output.

Say 10p/unit = 9,000 units/year = 25 units/day = 1 unit/hr 20% load
factor would need a 5kW, or there abouts, installation.

The tax on £900 is £180 1/100th (ish) of the cost of a cheap 5kW
windmill install.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 9 Dec, 11:11, Usenet Nutter
wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:05:10 +0000, Usenet Nutter

wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g

There's bound to be a catch !!

Like you getting only £300. *It's mentioned only as an expected
announcement on the BBC News website but no detailshttp://www.buildersmerchantsjournal.net/news/news.asp?id=6532&title=V...

http://reheatbritain.org.uk/news


Bet you can only get the money if you use a "registered" or "approved"
company to do the installation. Any possible diy savings will be
negated at a stroke!

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:30:37 +0000, Roger Chapman wrote:
"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

Does anyone have figures to hand to say how much electricity the £900
represents (at the inflated price paid for green energy) and how big a
wind farm they would need at say an optimistic 20% load factor or how
big an array of photoelectric panels to achieve the say output.
Say 10p/unit = 9,000 units/year = 25 units/day = 1 unit/hr 20% load

Don't know if that rate is available yet.
Originally, you could only sell back electricity at wholesale rates,
which for unpredictable sources like solar and wind is about 2p/kWhr.
Government did announce intention to change that to be the same rate
you buy retail electricity at, but that raised lots of issues and I
don't know if it's come in to effect yet.

factor would need a 5kW, or there abouts, installation.
The tax on £900 is £180 1/100th (ish) of the cost of a cheap 5kW
windmill install.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:40:46 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce domestic
boiler scrappage scheme".

So, if you want to get rid of your 'Old Boiler' and trade her in for a
younger model, you might get a government subsidy! g



"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900
a year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

How did the very discredited domestic turbine crawl out of its grave?

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
m...

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
David WE Roberts wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the BBC
news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.
--
Cheers,
Roger


There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you would
expect)

They're not all missing

The page that I saw said it would help a specific number of people, they
must have determined this number somehow....., or perhaps not

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:45:05 -0800, cynic wrote:

Bet you can only get the money if you use a "registered" or "approved"
company to do the installation. Any possible diy savings will be negated
at a stroke!

Indeed, and I'll buy you a pint or three if it's not set up a la
Warmfront (as Adam W suggests) so that you can only get it if you use a
company that's jumped through the various hoops to be an 'approved'
contractor, who will no doubt charge at least £400 more than a reputable
company without the admin overheads could do it for.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:27:00 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

Exactly. Plus there aren't any new boilers that will provide anything
like the lifespan of many of those on the list or be as reliable. If you
are tempted by the £300, then put the same aside each year for
depreciation, plus half as much again for servicing and likely faults.
The only beneficiaries are going to be the boiler manufacturers and
installers. 15% gas savings is peanuts in comparison.

Do the maths.





--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:32:29 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Say 10p/unit = 9,000 units/year = 25 units/day = 1 unit/hr 20%
load

Don't know if that rate is available yet.
Originally, you could only sell back electricity at wholesale rates,
which for unpredictable sources like solar and wind is about 2p/kWhr.

So the 5kW installed capacity increases to 25kW... Hardley something
to put in your back garden. Even 5kW windmill has a rotor 6m (20') in
dia ontop of a 10m (30') pole.

I think I've seen rates of 7.5p/unit selling to the grid but probably
only on wind turbine sellers sites rather than any DNO information.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Roger Chapman wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:


I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the
BBC news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.

There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you
would expect)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

I wonder why Mr Bentley, the managing director of British Gas,
welcomes such a **** idea.

;-)

The bit that caught my eye was:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

Does anyone have figures to hand to say how much electricity the £900
represents (at the inflated price paid for green energy) and how big a
wind farm they would need at say an optimistic 20% load factor or how
big an array of photoelectric panels to achieve the say output.


Oh yes. 900 quid a year is 9000 KWH 9 MWh. a year is roughly 9000 hours,
so that's an average of 1Kw.

My whole house runs on about that. Everything. 1Kw is a shade over a
horsepower. Its the sort of power you get out of a model aircraft engine
turning a finger shredding 10" prop at 10,000 RPM.

Its probably what you would get from a windmill about 50 feet high with
blades to match, on a good day.


A 10% efficient solar panel would deliver an average of about 220W/sq
meter, so lets say that 5 square meters of 10% efficient solar panels
would be required to generate that as well.

In message , ARWadsworth
writes

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
David WE Roberts wrote:

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
I've just seen a headline which reads "Government to announce
domestic boiler scrappage scheme".

Could you post a URL, please?

There isn't one yet! It's just a scrolling headline at the top of the
BBC news site - but it's not yet underlined and connected to a link.
-- Cheers,
Roger


There is now a link (with all the relevant details missing as you would
expect)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

I wonder why Mr Bentley, the managing director of British Gas, welcomes
such a **** idea.

I thought this actually started some time ago, it's certainly been
talked about in the plumbing and heating rag

If a new boiler saves a ton of co2 / year, how much was created in
manufacturing it

Oh yes - made in forrin, so not our problem


--
geoff

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:30:37 +0000, Roger Chapman wrote:
The bit that caught my eye was:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

is that from the 1st April, by any chance?

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:30:37 +0000, Roger Chapman wrote:
The bit that caught my eye was:

"From April, people with a home wind turbine or solar panels who plug
their excess power into the national grid will receive on average £900 a
year," Mr Darling said. "I intend to make this tax free."

is that from the 1st April, by any chance?

Smart arse.

That was a secret.

Adam

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A 10% efficient solar panel would deliver an average of about 220W/sq
meter,

I'm not so sure. As I recall, the total solar irradiance averaged
over the earth's disk gives a little over 1kW/m^2 (i.e. no adjustments
for seasons, angles, day/night, etc). So maybe 100W/m^2.


#Paul

On Dec 9, 8:48*pm, YAPH wrote:
Indeed, and I'll buy you a pint or three if it's not set up a la
Warmfront (as Adam W suggests) so that you can only get it if you use a
company that's jumped through the various hoops to be an 'approved'
contractor, who will no doubt charge at least £400 more than a reputable
company without the admin overheads could do it for.

So how many bought votes is that then :-)
Same with benefits before the election too I believe.

On 9 Dec 2009 20:49:32 GMT, YAPH wrote:

Do the maths.

The maths are 4 thermocouples and a new cap, over close on 30 years.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to INVEST in one of the new offerings soon.

Andy C

wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A 10% efficient solar panel would deliver an average of about 220W/sq
meter,

I'm not so sure. As I recall, the total solar irradiance averaged
over the earth's disk gives a little over 1kW/m^2 (i.e. no adjustments
for seasons, angles, day/night, etc). So maybe 100W/m^2.


WEll go an google 'average insolation for the UK'

and its a LOT less than that.

Cloud cover, long winter nights, angles etc etc.



#Paul

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:16:21 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

The maths are 4 thermocouples and a new cap, over close on 30 years.

And the difference in cost of gas consumed?

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The clairvoyants' meeting has been cancelled due to unforseen
circumstances.

YAPH wrote:
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:16:21 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

The maths are 4 thermocouples and a new cap, over close on 30 years.

And the difference in cost of gas consumed?


Cost of spares over 30 years, £135 + a few bottles of rust-proofer.

My prospective saving on gas at today's price £67.50/year.

Andy C

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:41:40 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

My prospective saving on gas at today's price £67.50/year.

So from what you are saying if you have a less than 70% efficient boiler,
and upgrading to a circa 90% efficient one would save you only £67.50 a
year, you must be paying less than £337.50 a year on gas.

My bad: I assumed you'd be paying more. For most people paying more like
that amount per quarter (or even month) the financial case is for
upgrading.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

"I used to think correlation implied causation.
Then I took a statistics course and now I don't."
"Sounds as if the statistics course helped."
"Well, maybe."

On 11 Dec 2009 01:07:29 GMT, YAPH wrote:


My bad: I assumed you'd be paying more. For most people paying more like
that amount per quarter (or even month) the financial case is for
upgrading.

Well, that was based on 15% so it nearer £90, but it's both the lifespan, lack
of reliability and expensive spare parts that worries me, plus they are no
longer maintained but just tested. I had an aquaintence that left BG for that
very reason. The only thing that appears to be taken into account when pricing
these things is fuel economy. There are plenty of other factors in the chain,
but as I say, the choice is soon to be taken out of my hands. Any
recommendaitions for the most reliable condensing boiler ?

Andy C

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:41:40 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

My prospective saving on gas at today's price £67.50/year.

So from what you are saying if you have a less than 70% efficient boiler,
and upgrading to a circa 90% efficient one would save you only £67.50 a
year, you must be paying less than £337.50 a year on gas.

I'm paying less than £300 a year but I only have CH and hot water all year
for that.
And its a boiler on that list.
If you are paying more i suggest you need to examine your lifestyle and
house structure.

My bad: I assumed you'd be paying more. For most people paying more like
that amount per quarter (or even month) the financial case is for
upgrading.

A month?
What are they trying to heat?
Warwick castle?