On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:24:07 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:


Well, that was based on 15% so it nearer £90, but it's both the
lifespan, lack of reliability and expensive spare parts that worries me,
plus they are no longer maintained but just tested. I had an aquaintence
that left BG for that very reason. The only thing that appears to be
taken into account when pricing these things is fuel economy. There are
plenty of other factors in the chain, but as I say, the choice is soon
to be taken out of my hands. Any recommendaitions for the most reliable
condensing boiler ?

Hard to tell since few of the current generation has been around for more
than 5 years when the regs changed. I fit Worcester-Bosch iJuniors,
iSystems and Ri models, which have a heat exchanger which I understand
they took from a Dutch(?) company they acquired who, presumably, had been
making them for some time. I'm afraid modern boilers are like modern
cars: they are vastly more efficient than the old clunkers of yesteryear
but at the price of relying on smarts in them which are potentially
expensive to fix if they go wrong.


As for maintenance versus testing, the current trend is to test whether
the boiler needs servicing. Combustion gas analysis gives one measure of
this for most boilers in general, and for the W-B models I mention
there's an internal test point at which you measure a pressure which
tells you if you need to strip down and clean the heat exchanger (haven't
needed to yet on any of the boilers I've serviced so far).

Again a bit like cars: they don't need de-coking and regrinding the
valves after you've been down the shops a couple of times as the old ones
did.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The clairvoyants' meeting has been cancelled due to unforseen
circumstances.

On 11 Dec 2009 11:11:33 GMT, YAPH wrote:

Hard to tell since few of the current generation has been around for more
than 5 years when the regs changed. I fit Worcester-Bosch iJuniors,
iSystems and Ri models, which have a heat exchanger which I understand
they took from a Dutch(?) company they acquired who, presumably, had been
making them for some time. I'm afraid modern boilers are like modern
cars: they are vastly more efficient than the old clunkers of yesteryear
but at the price of relying on smarts in them which are potentially
expensive to fix if they go wrong.


As for maintenance versus testing, the current trend is to test whether
the boiler needs servicing. Combustion gas analysis gives one measure of
this for most boilers in general, and for the W-B models I mention
there's an internal test point at which you measure a pressure which
tells you if you need to strip down and clean the heat exchanger (haven't
needed to yet on any of the boilers I've serviced so far).

Again a bit like cars: they don't need de-coking and regrinding the
valves after you've been down the shops a couple of times as the old ones
did.

Thanks for that. ;-)

Andy C

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
YAPH wrote:

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:41:40 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

My prospective saving on gas at today's price £67.50/year.

So from what you are saying if you have a less than 70% efficient
boiler, and upgrading to a circa 90% efficient one would save you
only £67.50 a year, you must be paying less than £337.50 a year on
gas.

My bad: I assumed you'd be paying more. For most people paying more
like that amount per quarter (or even month) the financial case is for
upgrading.

Not necessarily!

I currently spend about £1100 p.a. on gas for CH and HW. My 18-year-old
room-sealed powered-flue boiler, which is rated at 68% efficiency, is still
going strong and hardly ever needs servicing.[1]

If I were to replace it with a 90% boiler - I should, in theory - use 22/90
less gas - which would save me about £270 p.a.

But by the time I have amortised a £2k boiler over 6 years (if it lasts that
long!) *and* paid for the non-optional annual servicing which most
condensing boilers require, I would be considerably *worse* off - even with
the £400 subsidy!

[1] I recently had it moved to a different location, and the plumber who
moved it (the same one that supplied and fitted it when new) serviced it at
the same time - after an interval of at least 10 years - and said that it
was really a waste of time since there was virtually nothing to do!]
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 11 Dec 2009 11:11:33 GMT, YAPH wrote:


Just received this from Southern Electric under the heading,

'Great savings from Southern Electric'

Potential cost of a boiler breakdown = £370: call out charge over £50, two hours
of labour £120, and replacing a new pump up to £200. These costs are based on
our standard service charges and potential costs for parts and labour.

Based on paying £16.50 per month over a 52 week period. Prices correct as of 1
December 2009.

It's one reason why a very basic boiler, even if it costs £90/annum extra to
fuel, has a certain appeal !

Andy C

In message , Roger Mills
writes

[1] I recently had it moved to a different location, and the plumber who
moved it (the same one that supplied and fitted it when new) serviced it at
the same time - after an interval of at least 10 years - and said that it
was really a waste of time since there was virtually nothing to do!]

You're a very very bad boy ...

you're not meant to do that

(as if I give a toss)

--
geoff

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
geoff wrote:

In message , Roger Mills
writes

[1] I recently had it moved to a different location, and the plumber
who moved it (the same one that supplied and fitted it when new)
serviced it at the same time - after an interval of at least 10
years - and said that it was really a waste of time since there was
virtually nothing to do!]

You're a very very bad boy ...

you're not meant to do that

(as if I give a toss)

What am I not supposed to do - service it after 10 years, or move it?

I assume you mean the latter in that, technically, a non-compliant boiler
was being (re-)installed. Well the plumber who did it thought that it was
within the rules - although I had my dube. It was actually only moved
horizontally by about 2 feet, but that probably doesn't make any difference.

It was rather amusing because, as it happened, the BCO came to inspect some
structural work which was going on while the plumber had the boiler in bits
while moving it. We didn't draw his attention to what we were doing - and he
appeared not to notice. He didn't comment, anyway!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:07:08 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Roger Mills
writes

[1] I recently had it moved to a different location, and the plumber who
moved it (the same one that supplied and fitted it when new) serviced it at
the same time - after an interval of at least 10 years - and said that it
was really a waste of time since there was virtually nothing to do!]

You're a very very bad boy ...

you're not meant to do that

(as if I give a toss)

My last girl-friend had a new boiler fitted and the plumber called in a
corgi to set it up. The corgi specialised in Vailant, so I asked him about
mine and servicing. He said that there was so little to do that, if it was
lightly used [1], just the basics that I could do myself [2] were needed
and it required no more.

[1] 5 months off per year, apart from turning on to run the pump once a
month; also no use of HW.

[2] condensate drain and some air in the expansion vessel.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

In message , Roger Mills
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
geoff wrote:

In message , Roger Mills
writes

[1] I recently had it moved to a different location, and the plumber
who moved it (the same one that supplied and fitted it when new)
serviced it at the same time - after an interval of at least 10
years - and said that it was really a waste of time since there was
virtually nothing to do!]

You're a very very bad boy ...

you're not meant to do that

(as if I give a toss)

What am I not supposed to do - service it after 10 years, or move it?

Talk about moving it on a public forum ...


--
geoff

The page that I saw said it would help a specific number of people, they
must have determined this number somehow

That's actually the easiest figure to work out - the number of MPs
with a second home !

"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote
in message ...
The page that I saw said it would help a specific number of people, they
must have determined this number somehow

That's actually the easiest figure to work out - the number of MPs
with a second home !

It would be a subsidy for the buy to let landlords.