I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

TIA

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:30:54 -0000, Newshound wrote:

For the winter I've tried running a fluorescent tube and CFLs off a
cheapo inverter but they indicate low voltage after not much use.

What total lighting wattage? What capacity car battery?

100W of lighting (1 standard 58W tube and a couple of CFLs) will pull
8A at 12v. A normal 65AHr car battery will only last 8 or so hours, if that. Also car batteries don't like being deep cycled and generally die in short order, die as in lose capacity.

Fencers don't take much power at all.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Nov 15, 11:30*pm, "Newshound" wrote:

I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load?

Its because the battery's going flat. Car batteries dont last used
like that.

Would I be better off with incandescents

absolutely no chance

or do I need a better
inverter?

TIA

no, you need a bigger and better battery. You might also want to look
at small linear fluorescents, which have better efficiency/efficacy
than CFLs. Also get mean with the lighting, use a dim general light
plus a 5w CFL task light.


NT

On Nov 16, 2:48*am, NT wrote:
On Nov 15, 11:30*pm, "Newshound" wrote:

I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load?

Its because the battery's going flat. Car batteries dont last used
like that.

Would I be better off with incandescents

absolutely no chance

or do I need a better
inverter?

TIA

no, you need a bigger and better battery. You might also want to look
at small linear fluorescents, which have better efficiency/efficacy
than CFLs. Also get mean with the lighting, use a dim general light
plus a 5w CFL task light.

NT

maybe a 9w or 11w CFL for the main light


NT

On Nov 16, 12:30 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I'm running 30 LED lights off a 12 volt battery, for my fake gas
street lamp.
15 LEDs take 2 watts.

In article ,
Matty F wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:30 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I'm running 30 LED lights off a 12 volt battery, for my fake gas
street lamp.
15 LEDs take 2 watts.

Heh.. Not the ones I'm lighting my kitchen with! They're 3W each!

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Led/index.html

Ouch! they've gone up in price since I got them - wish I'd gotten more
now - they were under a fiver 18 months back IIRC...

I replaced 2 x 50W GU10 spots with 3 x 3W LED bulbs, and they only had
the cool-white then...

Gordon

In article ,
Matty F writes:
On Nov 16, 12:30 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I'm running 30 LED lights off a 12 volt battery, for my fake gas
street lamp.

Sounds interesting. Any chance of a photo?
I have a real gas lamp and like the idea, but it seems to run at
something way below 1 lumen/watt, which makes it too expensive
for any real use.

15 LEDs take 2 watts.

3W LEDs for lighting are easily found (and they do go much higher).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
"Newshound" writes:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I would use 12V fluorescents to avoid the inverter losses, such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/solar-technol...12v/dp/LA02713
or a 12V caravan fitting
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/12v-radiant...pin/dp/LA00362
http://cpc.farnell.com/eagle/l107b/l...-8w/dp/LA02381
http://cpc.farnell.com/eagle/l108b/1...x8w/dp/LA02382
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/mh103/12v-f...-22/dp/CP03260
http://cpc.farnell.com/brennenstuhl/...ube/dp/CP02078

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Newshound" writes:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I would use 12V fluorescents to avoid the inverter losses, such as
http://cpc.farnell.com/solar-technol...12v/dp/LA02713
or a 12V caravan fitting
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/12v-radiant...pin/dp/LA00362
http://cpc.farnell.com/eagle/l107b/l...-8w/dp/LA02381
http://cpc.farnell.com/eagle/l108b/1...x8w/dp/LA02382
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/mh103/12v-f...-22/dp/CP03260
http://cpc.farnell.com/brennenstuhl/...ube/dp/CP02078


You can also buy 12V fluorescents at your local caravan shop. I paid £7
for an 8W.

Another Dave

On Nov 16, 8:55 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
Matty F writes:

On Nov 16, 12:30 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I'm running 30 LED lights off a 12 volt battery, for my fake gas
street lamp.

Sounds interesting. Any chance of a photo?
I have a real gas lamp and like the idea, but it seems to run at
something way below 1 lumen/watt, which makes it too expensive
for any real use.

15 LEDs take 2 watts.

3W LEDs for lighting are easily found (and they do go much higher).

I bought two 12v units that looked a bit like gas mantles.
Here's the lamp. It's actually quite dark out there so it's a 5 second
shot:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2nmvrq.jpg

Didn't know about these. That makes sense, although they are a bit pricey.
But since I've got some mains type sockets installed that would be a
reasonably easy fix.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:30:54 -0000, Newshound wrote:

For the winter I've tried running a fluorescent tube and CFLs off a
cheapo inverter but they indicate low voltage after not much use.

What total lighting wattage? What capacity car battery?

100W of lighting (1 standard 58W tube and a couple of CFLs) will pull
8A at 12v. A normal 65AHr car battery will only last 8 or so hours, if
that. Also car batteries don't like being deep cycled and generally die
in short order, die as in lose capacity.

Fencers don't take much power at all.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Sorry, I really should have given more details. I've got a couple of 9W, a
16W, and a 4 foot tube on a switched spreader so that I can be very sparing
with the load. I do know how to do the sums (but I didn't make that
obvious!!). The inverter's claiming low voltage after a few minutes use on
an ex-diesel battery (80 AH I think) that was used, but still working fine
on the car when I retired it. I know about deep cycling and a couple of my
other fencer batteries have a dodgy cell, but I think this main lighting
battery is still pretty good (it will run a fencer for weeks). I suppose I
should stick a few amps load on it and plot the discharge curve with my data
logger!

My point really was, are some cheap inverters fussy about CFL loads?

Although the simpler answer would be to follow Andrew's suggestion and stick
in some "caravan" bulbs.

"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Matty F wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:30 pm, "Newshound" wrote:
I have no power at my stables, but successfully run electric fencers off
old
(but serviceable) car batteries. For the winter I've tried running a
fluorescent tube and CFLs off a cheapo inverter but they indicate low
voltage after not much use. Is that because the inverter doesn't like
the
CFL load? Would I be better off with incandescents or do I need a better
inverter?

I'm running 30 LED lights off a 12 volt battery, for my fake gas
street lamp.
15 LEDs take 2 watts.

Heh.. Not the ones I'm lighting my kitchen with! They're 3W each!

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...Led/index.html

Ouch! they've gone up in price since I got them - wish I'd gotten more
now - they were under a fiver 18 months back IIRC...

I replaced 2 x 50W GU10 spots with 3 x 3W LED bulbs, and they only had
the cool-white then...

Gordon

Incidentally, my search for energy saving 50W GU10 replacements has at last
been slightly successful.

I have 5x50W GU10 downlighters in the kitchen. I bought some Megaman 14W
ones (I chose the warm white option). Not cheap, about £11.50 each, but I
thought I'd give them a go.

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=19695

I have previously tried various 9W and 11W ones, which were extremely
disappointing - the last lot went back to CPC after 2 out of 5 failed after
a couple of days so I left it for a while.

The Megaman ones are bright enough and have passed the wife-approval test.
They do take a LONG time to reach full brightness - I think the slowest of
all the lamps I've tried. They are very fat at the rear and to fit them in
the ceiling downlighters I had to bend the spring clippy bits outwards as
far as I dared - they were still a tight fit against the springs so I'm not
looking forward to trying to get them out again - might have to find one of
those suction things.

I've got a couple of other fittings with 4xGU10 so I'll probably get some
more. What I really need is for someone to invent 12V CFL MR16 ones as well.
I have 9x50W halogens in my two bathrooms and it would be great to replace
them with something. Looks like the LED ones are not yet up to the "50W
equivalent" level.

The best CFL bulbs we have in the house are the 23W "Feit" ones from Costco.
They are the spiral tube type and make a great 100W replacement. Instant on
and very bright. I've fitted them everywhere I can except where there are
dimmers.

Regards,
Simon.

In article ,
"newshound" writes:
Sorry, I really should have given more details. I've got a couple of 9W, a
16W, and a 4 foot tube on a switched spreader so that I can be very sparing
with the load. I do know how to do the sums (but I didn't make that
obvious!!). The inverter's claiming low voltage after a few minutes use on
an ex-diesel battery (80 AH I think) that was used, but still working fine

Measure what voltage drops to just before the inverter cuts out.
10.5V is pretty typical - if it's significantly higher, then the
inverter is faulty. If the battery is falling to 10.5V in a few
minutes of low load, then the battery is dead (or possibly needing
maintenance such as topping up, depending on type).

on the car when I retired it. I know about deep cycling and a couple of my
other fencer batteries have a dodgy cell, but I think this main lighting
battery is still pretty good (it will run a fencer for weeks). I suppose I
should stick a few amps load on it and plot the discharge curve with my data
logger!

Fencer will probably work well on 10V, if the battery has a dead
cell.

My point really was, are some cheap inverters fussy about CFL loads?

Not that I've noticed. You almost certainly have to use the VA
rating rather than the Watts rating to calculate max load on the
inverter though.

Although the simpler answer would be to follow Andrew's suggestion and stick
in some "caravan" bulbs.

Bear in mind these probably don't include any protection against
deep discharging a battery, and that can wreck both the battery,
and the fluorescent tube control gear. So you probably want to
add a deep discharge protection circuit. That would be easy to
build if you're in to electronics, or you might be able to get
one from elsewhere, such as an alarm system one.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
"Simon Stroud" writes:

Incidentally, my search for energy saving 50W GU10 replacements has at last
been slightly successful.

I have 5x50W GU10 downlighters in the kitchen. I bought some Megaman 14W
ones (I chose the warm white option). Not cheap, about £11.50 each, but I
thought I'd give them a go.

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=19695

I have previously tried various 9W and 11W ones, which were extremely
disappointing - the last lot went back to CPC after 2 out of 5 failed after
a couple of days so I left it for a while.

I just bought some 7W ones for someone who moved into a flat with
5 such fittings in the hall. (They originally had blue LEDs fitted,
which were completely useless.)

The Megaman ones are bright enough and have passed the wife-approval test.
They do take a LONG time to reach full brightness - I think the slowest of
all the lamps I've tried. They are very fat at the rear and to fit them in
the ceiling downlighters I had to bend the spring clippy bits outwards as
far as I dared - they were still a tight fit against the springs so I'm not
looking forward to trying to get them out again - might have to find one of
those suction things.

I've got a couple of other fittings with 4xGU10 so I'll probably get some
more. What I really need is for someone to invent 12V CFL MR16 ones as well.
I have 9x50W halogens in my two bathrooms and it would be great to replace
them with something. Looks like the LED ones are not yet up to the "50W
equivalent" level.

Nowhere near at viable pricing.

In the flat mentioned above, there were 4, 6, or 8 of the 50W
MR16's in each room (don't know why the hall is mains and the
rooms are all 12V). It's rented, so not a lot I could do, but I
swapped them all out for 20W wide angle ones (18p+VAT from CPC),
and they're going to get some table/standard lamps for their main
lighting.

In that flat, each MR16 has its own transformer. If yours is
similar, swapping them out for mains GU10 is probably quite easy,
and then you could fit the CFLs.

The best CFL bulbs we have in the house are the 23W "Feit" ones from Costco.
They are the spiral tube type and make a great 100W replacement. Instant on
and very bright. I've fitted them everywhere I can except where there are
dimmers.

Absolutely agree, and they are the only CFL's with a correct
equivalence rating I've come across. I've fitted about 20 of
these for different people. Only one failure so far, and that
was instant at first switch-on. They do have a run-up time,
but the initial output is a reasonable proportion of the final
output. Can't yet comment on how long they'll last, except to
say none have failed (other than the one infant mortality) or
noticably dimmed, and several are in unventilated fittings
and probably running very hot. I think I must have fitted
the first ones about 2 years ago. Then they vanished from
Costco for about 6-9 months, before reappearing again in
different packaging.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"newshound" writes:
Sorry, I really should have given more details. I've got a couple of 9W,
a
16W, and a 4 foot tube on a switched spreader so that I can be very
sparing
with the load. I do know how to do the sums (but I didn't make that
obvious!!). The inverter's claiming low voltage after a few minutes use
on
an ex-diesel battery (80 AH I think) that was used, but still working
fine

Measure what voltage drops to just before the inverter cuts out.
10.5V is pretty typical - if it's significantly higher, then the
inverter is faulty. If the battery is falling to 10.5V in a few
minutes of low load, then the battery is dead (or possibly needing
maintenance such as topping up, depending on type).

Yesterday, the inverter wouldn't fire up with a single 9W CFL. Today, when I
had my DVM, it worked fine with a 16 watt one. Battery initial voltage,
12.8. When drawing 2 amps, 12.6 v. So looks like a fairly healthy battery to
me. I wonder if I have an intermittent bad connection and was losing volts
somewhere yesterday.

on the car when I retired it. I know about deep cycling and a couple of
my
other fencer batteries have a dodgy cell, but I think this main lighting
battery is still pretty good (it will run a fencer for weeks). I suppose
I
should stick a few amps load on it and plot the discharge curve with my
data
logger!

Fencer will probably work well on 10V, if the battery has a dead
cell.

My point really was, are some cheap inverters fussy about CFL loads?

Not that I've noticed. You almost certainly have to use the VA
rating rather than the Watts rating to calculate max load on the
inverter though.

I'm not looking for more than about 20 "watts" out of a 300 watt inverter so
I guess I'd be OK even with a nasty load.

Although the simpler answer would be to follow Andrew's suggestion and
stick
in some "caravan" bulbs.

Bear in mind these probably don't include any protection against
deep discharging a battery, and that can wreck both the battery,
and the fluorescent tube control gear. So you probably want to
add a deep discharge protection circuit. That would be easy to
build if you're in to electronics, or you might be able to get
one from elsewhere, such as an alarm system one.

Valid point. I guess it might be just such a circuit which is making my
inverter fussy. I keep thinking about getting a proper deep discharge
battery, but never quite get round to it. Here's protection a circuit for
Li-Ion

http://www.ultimate-electronics.co.u...204.5%20Ah.pdf
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]