Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

It should do, usually. It's a generally bad idea to run it at the
limits, for reliablity concerns.

However.
This will rapidly drain the battery - as you'll be pulling some 15A from
it.
(A 40Ah battery will safely run it only for a couple of hours, and doing
this more than 10 times or so will risk the battery failing - car
batteries are not designed for this.)

3*22W CFL lights will use a little over a third of the power, and
produce around a third more light.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:12:57 -0000, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

Inverters are like battery screwdrivers, there are good and crap.

A friend bought a Costco one for 14.99 and it's very good, peaking
higher than 150v. I bought a different make two weeks later and it
peaks at 150v so I have to run it at less voltage.

A 300w one is only a little more in cost and gives leeway in running.

The main point about them is that they crucify batteries in vehicles
and you should have the van altered to provide the power, with a
second battery and uprated power from the vehicle charging system,
like a caravan. If you are the usual contractor spending 30 mins going
to site and 30 mins going from it in the evening, you will not charge
the battery enough to power an inverter. Even running the engine while
using it may not be enough.

My son uses one all the time in his van to prepare a chemical he has
to use and switches the inverter on in transit to the job, so it is
cooked when he arrives. His van has a very uprated power system to
cope with this, but he does make mistakes and get a dead van some
mornings.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:12:57 -0000, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

|Hi All
|
|Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
|them however.
|
|All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.
|
|Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
|sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
|is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

Why not get a 150W *12V* lamp?
150W (12.5 amps) out of a 110AH leisure battery will cripple it in about 5
hours flat. Beware invertors do not like high peak starting loads such as
you find for incandescent lamps.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
about them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.


Make far more sense to find a 12 volt equivalent - low voltage halogens
are more efficient even before you take into account the efficiency of the
invertor.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there
some sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the
inverter is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get
in practice?

I'd go for a 300 watt one. TLC has them at a decent price.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in
practice?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257



Buy a cheap petrol generator.
Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from the last
batch?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:


Why not get a 150W *12V* lamp?
150W (12.5 amps) out of a 110AH leisure battery will cripple it in
about 5 hours flat. Beware invertors do not like high peak starting
loads such as you find for incandescent lamps.

You may also find that you get enough light with less watts if you use 12v
lamps. Low voltage lamps have shorter fatter filaments than mains lamps, and
are thus more robust and can be run at much higher temperatures. This
results in much more of their output being in the visible part of the
spectrum rather in the infra-red part.

You have only to compare the output from a 60w car headlamp bulb with that
from a mains 60w bulb to see what I mean.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
about them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.


Make far more sense to find a 12 volt equivalent - low voltage halogens
are more efficient even before you take into account the efficiency of the
invertor.

Slightly more.

CFL worklights IME work quite well.
Alternatively, something like the rechargable light -
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec...ts/d190/sd2480

George wrote:

Buy a cheap petrol generator.
Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from
the last batch?

Indeed I've a 720W wolf one, cost £50 from screwfix when it was on offer.
Jon

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van.

In general, don't. Find ways to run things from 12V instead.

Inverters are a pain. It's becoming easier to find ways to things (even
tools) from low DC voltages and this is a superior approach. Inverters
also aren't magic power multipliers. 150W at 240V is still at least
150W at 12V and even somewhat more. If it's hard to power a high power
device from 12V, it's even _harder_ to do it via an inverter.

If you want lights, get some 12V ones. Fluorescents (caravan shop or
mil-surplus "penthouse" lights from eBay) will give you general light
to work by. They use trival currents, so have several. High power
halogens can be rigged from car headlights or even rabbit-hunting
lamps. LED lamps are as bright as you could wish, at a price. If you
need more than this, then either go for propane (Bullfinch Handilights
or motorway sign floods, again from eBay) or else a 240V generator.

Inverters also produce an ugly output waveform. If they're cheap or
lightweight, then this is a very ugly waveform. Lights are OK with it,
but electronics, audio and even inductive tools like motors might not
enjoy the extra harmonics. You can often find power tools that overheat
at 1/2 their normal capacity when run from cheap inverters.

A second battery (in a plasterboard-lined plastic case) and a caravan
charging relay is a good idea. Stops a flat lighting battery turning
into a flat engine battery and a call to the AA. Otherwise get a
battery cutout that says No! when you've partially discharged it. All
this stuff is standard kit in the caravan or boat world.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George" wrote:

|
|"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
| Hi All
|
| Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
|about
| them however.
|
| All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.
|
| Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
| sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
| is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in
|practice?
|
|Buy a cheap petrol generator.
|Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from the last
|batch?

Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
generator use drastically.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

A 150w invertor isnt going to supply the 1.5kW startup draw of a 150w
halogen.
Cheap invertors have no load dump protection, so arent long term
reliable.
12v halogens are more efficient than mains, more robust, and cost less
all in
Go for linear fluorescent of CFL if you can, a 150w halogen will hammer
the battery
Park on a hill or something, or get used to push starts if you do go
for 1`50w halogen.
Halogens dont give a damn about waveform. Nor do mains CFLs.
Electronics linear fls dont either, but old magnetic ballast ones
sometimes do object by overheating and cooking.

I'd go with fl if poss, 12v linear or for more money and less
efficiency, mains cfl.


NT

wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter
is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

A 150w invertor isnt going to supply the 1.5kW startup draw of a 150w
halogen.

Aha - a test I can do.

150W inverter (19.99 from maplin).
Battery - 40Ah battery I picked up at the recycling place when I was
disposing of paper.
150W 4.99 floodlight, from Aldi I think.

Yes, it does.
It beeps for a tiny fraction of a second, indicating undervoltage.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Buy a cheap petrol generator.
Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from
the last batch?

Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
generator use drastically.

You're in the wrong newsgroup Dave - this is uk.d-i-y! Who said anything
about caravan sites? The OP wants it for when he's working.

Having said that, I'm sure that these cheap generators are far noisier than
slightly more up-market ones such as the 4-stroke Hondas.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:12:42 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

|In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George"
| wrote:
|
| Buy a cheap petrol generator.
| Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from
| the last batch?
|
| Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
| Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
| generator use drastically.
|
|You're in the wrong newsgroup Dave - this is uk.d-i-y! Who said anything
|about caravan sites? The OP wants it for when he's working.

He should still be warned, work vans *do* get used for leisure.
I have regularly stayed on CCC sites and other respectable sites when
working. Some sites even have Contractors rates.

|Having said that, I'm sure that these cheap generators are far noisier than
|slightly more up-market ones such as the 4-stroke Hondas.

and even the quietest will get you hated.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Buy a cheap petrol generator.
Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from the
last
batch?

My local B&Q were doing a [fairly nasty] 720w two-stroke one for £35 when I
was in there recently, and a 1.2kw 4 stroke for about £65 IIRC.

Personally, I prefer the quiet "suitcase" inverter generators, and have two
of the "Kipor" brand Honda copies that are available on ebay amongst other
places. I've just bought another 1kw version which I'll collect later this
week after regretting selling my previous one when I upgraded to a bigger
model last year. The 1kw version is very portable which it's 3kw electric
start bigger brother isn't!

Alan.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George" wrote:

|
|"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
| Hi All
|
| Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
|about
| them however.
|
| All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.
|
| Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there
some
| sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the
inverter
| is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in
|practice?
|
|Buy a cheap petrol generator.
|Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from the
last
|batch?

Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
generator use drastically.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

A pointless excersise if there's (mains) facility on caravan site then,ain't
it.

The Medway Handyman explained on 23/01/2007 :
Hi All

Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing about
them however.

All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.

Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there some
sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the inverter is
'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in practice?

Why the need to invert?

Inverters are only 85% or so efficient. Why not use the power at 12v,
using something like an adapted car headlight with a 12v bulb?

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:00:29 GMT, "George" wrote:

|
|"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
.. .
| On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George" wrote:
|
| |
| |"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
| ...
| | Hi All
| |
| | Thinking of getting a 12/230 inverter for my new van. I know nothing
| |about
| | them however.
| |
| | All I really want to run from it is a 150w halogen floodlight.
| |
| | Am I right to assume a 150w inverter will run a 150w lamp or is there
|some
| | sort of power factor involved? Or maybe the 150w claimed for the
|inverter
| | is 'going downhill with a following wind' and not what you get in
| |practice?
| |
| |Buy a cheap petrol generator.
| |Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from the
|last
| |batch?
|
| Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
| Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
| generator use drastically.
|

|A pointless excersise if there's (mains) facility on caravan site then,ain't
|it.

Big *if* many sites do not have hookups, over on uk.rec.caravanning this
is a regular question. Indeed I have written a FAQ on the subject.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Depening on your requirement why not look at HID lamps? I seem to
recall that you can get them in a worklight version but these might
do...

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=312

Not cheap, but very good light and low power consumption.

In article . com,
garym999 wrote:
Depening on your requirement why not look at HID lamps? I seem to
recall that you can get them in a worklight version but these might
do...

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=312

Not cheap, but very good light and low power consumption.

The requirement was for a working light - ie floodlight. These are
spotlights.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 23, 5:56 pm, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:12:42 -0000, "Roger Mills"

wrote:|In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:12:17 GMT, "George" | wrote:|
| Buy a cheap petrol generator.
| Aldi/Lidl will come around again or some will still be on sale from
| the last batch?
|
| Which will get you hated so any caravan site in the UK.
| Many sites have no noise after ???? or before ???? rules, which limit
| generator use drastically.
|
|You're in the wrong newsgroup Dave - this is uk.d-i-y! Who said anything
|about caravan sites? The OP wants it for when he's working.

He should still be warned, work vans *do* get used for leisure.
I have regularly stayed on CCC sites and other respectable sites when
working. Some sites even have Contractors rates.

You are unlikely to be *working* on a campsite during the quiet hours
unless it's an emergency in which case they've probably agreed to the
noise. Staying on a campsite in between working off-site is completely
different.

MBQ