Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

It's not just you.

Have you noticed how Audi seem to acknowledge this - since their DRLs
actually dim when the indicator is used?

Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights are
switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so many
people leave them on.

Bob

wrote in message ...
On 30 Oct,
Dave wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

You are not alone. Particularly high level brake lights which are left on
at
traffic lights etc.


--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Jeremy Clarkson described the LED lights on an Audi as "like a Council House
at Xmas"

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear) too
bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The brightness I can cope with, the low frequency constant flashing (I guess
60 or 70Hz) when they are dimmed gives me a headache when following a LEDed
car, and also gives a trail of red spots across by field of view as I move
my eyes which I also find distracting.

There is no reason at all why the frequency could not be increased to a few
100's of Hz to prevent this - why don't they?.

Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
I find them a little bright, plus some of them noticeably flicker.

Phil Jessop wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear) too
bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The brightness I can cope with, the low frequency constant flashing (I guess
60 or 70Hz) when they are dimmed gives me a headache when following a LEDed
car, and also gives a trail of red spots across by field of view as I move
my eyes which I also find distracting.

There is no reason at all why the frequency could not be increased to a few
100's of Hz to prevent this - why don't they?.



It varies- Peugots seem the worst, some 'premium' cars don't seem to
flicker to me.

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
...
Phil Jessop wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The brightness I can cope with, the low frequency constant flashing (I
guess 60 or 70Hz) when they are dimmed gives me a headache when following
a LEDed car, and also gives a trail of red spots across by field of view
as I move my eyes which I also find distracting.

There is no reason at all why the frequency could not be increased to a
few 100's of Hz to prevent this - why don't they?.



It varies- Peugots seem the worst, some 'premium' cars don't seem to
flicker to me.

I assume Mercs and BMW are not 'premium' then? - they are the worst!!

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:59:12 +0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights are
switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so many
people leave them on.

Bob

I wouldn't go that far - it'd tend to wake up our baby in the back! I would
however make it mandatory that the indication that the fog lights are on is
highly visible. In one car I drove, it was impossible to see it from a
normal driving position, unless it was dark enough for you to see the
reflection in the side window. However the only time I drove with them on
accidentally was when the MOT tester left them on! I would also make it
mandatory that they are operated by a pushbutton, not a rotary or rocker
switch - then the damned things can auto cancel whenever the ignition or
dipped lights are switched off.

SteveW

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:59:12 +0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Yup, I think that sums it up pretty well, 'too bright ... for most
humans ...'

I believe, we (humans) have a range of tolerance for stuff, noise,
temperature, 'G' forces, smells and light etc. Once outside those
levels we say 'feck' and then strive to do something to reduce the
effect (like walking out into the freezing cold or being near a very
noisy machine).

IMHO, most HID headlights are just 'too bright' (for humans) and,
irrespective how well they are aimed will inevitably end up right in
someone's face on a roundabout or in traffic. A classic example of
that is when in a std saloon and being followed by a 4x4 with the
things fitted. I find myself dipping the mirror, not because of the
quantity of light but the sheer brightness.

The LED rear lights come on very fast (no thermal inertia) and I find
little worse than being sat behind someone at the traffic lights with
their brake lights held on or their indicator left running (worse when
said lights are half way up the rear pillars).

I think the joke can be on the owners of those LED light units though.
A mate had a rear 'light' go on his Saab and it cost ~£400 to replace.
;-(

Cheers, T i m

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights are
switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so many people
leave them on.

Bob

I wonder why people drive about with their front foglights on in the day.
It's usually young men who drive with front foglights, stupid women who
drive with rear foglights on and older women who drive with no lights at
night.
People genuinely don't know what the switches are for in their cars.
Daylight running lights are a stupid idea. A lot of people who wish they
have an audi or volvo now stick LEDs all over their cars, mainly taxis.
Why have a 10 min warning for foglights? If people looked at how fast
they were going, they would see the display infront of them.

wrote in message ...
On 30 Oct,
Bob Minchin wrote:

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights are
switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so many
people leave them on.

High level fog lights should be outlawed. They facilitate travelling at
speeds where the only hazards seen are other cars with high level brake
lights. Pedestrians, bikes, broken down cars, cows and other
animals/objects
that could be in the road are unseen.

--
B Thumbs

You should not be driving as your eyesight appears to be very poor and
well below the standard for driving. Pedestrians, bikes and broken down
cars need to take the appropriate precautions. Cows need to wear
fluorescent vests if taking a walk down a road or a motorway, you would
think they would know better.
How about driving appropriately for the conditions at the time - that is
what the rest of us with common sense do.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:57:37 +0000, Steve Walker wrote:

... make it mandatory that the indication that the fog lights are on is
highly visible.

Simpler to have them non-latching with the lights. Turn the lights
off either on their switch or when the ignition is turned off *all*
fog (front and rear) lights cancel. The last couple of cars I have
had have behaved like this.

In one car I drove, it was impossible to see it from a normal driving
position,

Both of the above car have similar "hidden" indicators. I've moved
the switch on one of them to be slightly less hidden but it's still
not obvious.

And why do people drive around with front fogs on? They only
illuminate the road at most 20' in front of the vehicle, it's rarely
foggy enough to need them(*). A guide to having to use front fogs is
when the glare back from *dipped* headlights is obscuring how far you
can see. You then switch off the dipped headlights and use the front
fogs, following the white line or the kerb at about 15mph as that is
a fast as you can travel with the limited visibility (the same or
worse with dipped headlights).

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Phil Jessop" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The brightness I can cope with, the low frequency constant flashing (I
guess 60 or 70Hz) when they are dimmed gives me a headache when following
a LEDed car, and also gives a trail of red spots across by field of view
as I move my eyes which I also find distracting.

There is no reason at all why the frequency could not be increased to a
few 100's of Hz to prevent this - why don't they?.



The last time I looked at the Construction and Use regs for cars they stated
that lighting (other than indicators) must be constant when illuminated. I
don't think this has changed so how do manufacturers manage to get away with
this very fast flickering? I too find it distracting and if I'm just the
slightest bit tired it tends to give me a headache.

Chris Bartram wrote:

It varies- Peugots seem the worst, some 'premium' cars don't seem to
flicker to me.

I find VW about the worst, especially the Passat with the concentric
indicator/tail assembly. Brake, and the indicators almost vanish.

And yes, some "premium" cars are rubbish.

Andy

On Oct 30, 7:57 pm, Steve Walker wrote:
would also make it
mandatory that they are operated by a pushbutton, not a rotary or rocker
switch - then the damned things can auto cancel whenever the ignition or
dipped lights are switched off.

SteveW

as on my 7 year old toyota - for the rear ones at least:)

JimK

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:56 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual
over ride available. Grrr.

Simon C. . gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual over
ride available. Grrr.

The headlight beam regs - and MOT standards - are the exact same.

Headlights have always kicked-up towards the kerb.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:07:58 GMT, wrote:

High level fog lights should be outlawed.

Define "high level" are you talking about the lumens of the source or
a physical position?

Rear fog lights have to be within 250mm and 1000mm of the ground.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._16.htm#nsch11

Rear stop and position lights have to be within 350mm and 1500mm of
the ground.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._15.htm#nsch10
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._17.htm#nsch12

There are some exceptions but we is talking cars here. I don't think
the 1994 or 2005 amendments have altered those distances.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:58:19 +0000, Simon C. wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:56 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual over
ride available. Grrr.

I think that (auto adjust, not 'too high') is an actual requirement for
HID.




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:42:00 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

In one car I drove, it was impossible to see it from a normal driving
position,

Both of the above car have similar "hidden" indicators. I've moved the
switch on one of them to be slightly less hidden but it's still not
obvious.

Same on mine (an S-Max). I guess it would be OK for some drivers, but not
where I adjust the steering wheel to.

And why do people drive around with front fogs on? They only illuminate
the road at most 20' in front of the vehicle, it's rarely foggy enough
to need them(*). A guide to having to use front fogs is when the glare
back from *dipped* headlights is obscuring how far you can see. You then
switch off the dipped headlights and use the front fogs, following the
white line or the kerb at about 15mph as that is a fast as you can
travel with the limited visibility (the same or worse with dipped
headlights).

Yes, I only use mine a few times a year, on the same foggy woodland road
(my usual route to/from work).




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Bob Eager gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual over
ride available. Grrr.

I think that (auto adjust, not 'too high') is an actual requirement for
HID.

It is. Together with lens cleaning.

On 30 Oct 2009 21:23:34 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:58:19 +0000, Simon C. wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:56 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual over
ride available. Grrr.

I think that (auto adjust, not 'too high') is an actual requirement for
HID.

You may well be right. But they still seem far too high to me,
certainly higher than any other car I've known, road signs reflect 100
yrds away. Dealer insists they are set correctly and legal. shrug

"Dave Liquorice" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Rear stop and position lights have to be within 350mm and 1500mm of the
ground.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._15.htm#nsch10
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._17.htm#nsch12

There are some exceptions but we is talking cars here. I don't think the
1994 or 2005 amendments have altered those distances.

Side rear stops, yes.
Centre "long way from ground" grin ones can be significantly further,
if the ones fitted to the top of van rear doors are anything to go by...

I'd suspect they're covered by the '94 amendments, since they were
required on all cars from around '98 or so.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:57:37 +0000, Steve Walker wrote:

... make it mandatory that the indication that the fog lights are on is
highly visible.

Simpler to have them non-latching with the lights. Turn the lights
off either on their switch or when the ignition is turned off *all*
fog (front and rear) lights cancel. The last couple of cars I have
had have behaved like this.

In one car I drove, it was impossible to see it from a normal driving
position,

Both of the above car have similar "hidden" indicators. I've moved
the switch on one of them to be slightly less hidden but it's still
not obvious.

And why do people drive around with front fogs on? They only
illuminate the road at most 20' in front of the vehicle, it's rarely
foggy enough to need them(*). A guide to having to use front fogs is
when the glare back from *dipped* headlights is obscuring how far you
can see. You then switch off the dipped headlights and use the front
fogs, following the white line or the kerb at about 15mph as that is
a fast as you can travel with the limited visibility (the same or
worse with dipped headlights).

Trouble is, a lot of drivers think that fog lights are yellow and
consider the white ones as driving lamps :-(

Dave

John wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 30 Oct,
Dave wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.
You are not alone. Particularly high level brake lights which are left on
at
traffic lights etc.


--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

Jeremy Clarkson described the LED lights on an Audi as "like a Council House
at Xmas"

ROTFLMAO

He does come up with some good quotes though.

Dave

Phil Jessop wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear) too
bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The brightness I can cope with, the low frequency constant flashing (I guess
60 or 70Hz) when they are dimmed gives me a headache when following a LEDed
car, and also gives a trail of red spots across by field of view as I move
my eyes which I also find distracting.

There is no reason at all why the frequency could not be increased to a few
100's of Hz to prevent this - why don't they?.

I don't suffer from that, but I can see why you want the strobing
frequency increasing. My problem is that I have very good night vision
and some of these lights leave black hole when the driver takes his foot
off the brake.

Dave

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights are
switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so many people
leave them on.

I don't recall a day in the last five years where fog lights were actually a
benefit.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:58:27 -0000, Roger wrote:

If people looked at how fast they were going, they would see the display
infront of them.

No car that I have owned or driven has had a rear fog indicator light
in the instrument panel. It has always been a separate light near the
lights switch or part of the switch itself.

On my current car both front and rear fog light switches are hidden
behind the rim of the steering wheel, guess where the indicators are?
Yep, on those hidden switches. I have moved the rear fog one so that
I now only have to move my head a little to see it's status.

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote in message ...
On 30 Oct,
Dave wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

You are not alone. Particularly high level brake lights which are left on
at
traffic lights etc.

Just another example of poor driving.. you don't sit stationary with you
brakes on.

dennis@home wrote:


wrote in message
...
On 30 Oct,
Dave wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

You are not alone. Particularly high level brake lights which are left
on at
traffic lights etc.

Just another example of poor driving.. you don't sit stationary with you
brakes on.

Not a foot brake, you don't. The morons don't think about applying the
hand brake, some think of it as a parking brake.

The reason I asked this, is that I am leaving an even bigger distance
between the car in front and myself, due to my eye sensitivity to light.

Dave

On 30 Oct 2009 21:35:32 GMT, Adrian wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Rear stop and position lights have to be within 350mm and 1500mm of the
ground.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._15.htm#nsch10
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks..._17.htm#nsch12

There are some exceptions but we is talking cars here. I don't think the
1994 or 2005 amendments have altered those distances.

Side rear stops, yes.
Centre "long way from ground" grin ones can be significantly further,
if the ones fitted to the top of van rear doors are anything to go by...

I'd suspect they're covered by the '94 amendments, since they were
required on all cars from around '98 or so.

The lighting regulations are not the be all and end all though - anything
that contravenes them cannot be acted upon if they are a standard part (or
factory fit option) of a vehicle that has been type approved in another EU
country.

SteveW

On 30 Oct 2009 21:23:34 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:58:19 +0000, Simon C. wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:56 +0000, Dave
wrote:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and rear)
too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave

The problem with the new Audis is that the headlights also point too
high. Noticable when driving that all the road signs are lit up - like
driving on hi-beam. They automatically adjust for load - no manual over
ride available. Grrr.

I think that (auto adjust, not 'too high') is an actual requirement for
HID.

Auto adjust is required on most, but not all HID installations - non-auto
adjust lights are permitted on a vehicle with self-levelling suspension.

SteveW

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
If people looked at how fast they were going, they would see the
display infront of them.

No car that I have owned or driven has had a rear fog indicator light
in the instrument panel. It has always been a separate light near the
lights switch or part of the switch itself.

Think the early Rangies did - same as my SD1. All the warning lights in
one panel directly in front of the driver - between speedo and revcounter.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I think that (auto adjust, not 'too high') is an actual requirement
for HID.

Auto adjust is required on most, but not all HID installations - non-auto
adjust lights are permitted on a vehicle with self-levelling suspension.

Had an 'interesting' discussion with the MOT place when I had the first
MOT after fitting an HID conversion to the SD1. The beam pattern was fine
- but he said the headlights should be self levelling. Pointed out the
suspension was. And it had headlight washers. Got the MOT.
Nothing mentioned at subsequent ones as it seems the regs don't cover
conversions anyway.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Steve Walker gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

The lighting regulations are not the be all and end all though -
anything that contravenes them cannot be acted upon if they are a
standard part (or factory fit option) of a vehicle that has been type
approved in another EU country.

Umm, no. Think about a right-hand-only rear foglight, and left-hand-
traffic dip beam...

Adrian gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The lighting regulations are not the be all and end all though -
anything that contravenes them cannot be acted upon if they are a
standard part (or factory fit option) of a vehicle that has been type
approved in another EU country.

Umm, no. Think about a right-hand-only

Damn. The _other_ right...

rear foglight, and left-hand- traffic dip beam...

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:36:04 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Think the early Rangies did - same as my SD1. All the warning lights in
one panel directly in front of the driver - between speedo and
revcounter.

Not enough space there for the lights on a DII... When you switch it
on it lights up like a "council house at xmas". There are 27
warning/indication lights in the instrument panel.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...

And why do people drive around with front fogs on? They only
illuminate the road at most 20' in front of the vehicle, it's rarely
foggy enough to need them(*).

Yes.

What front fogs will do is make the area nearer the car brighter, so the
numpty thinks they can see more. Unfortunately that area isn't the important
bit if you're going any more than "really quite slow like you would in heavy
fog", and the bit further away which contains the things one should be
looking for is no lighter. Worse, the eye will compensate for the brigher
stuff nearby which will make the further stuff appear dimmer.

dennis@home wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new LED's (front and
rear) too bright? Even in daylight.

Dave
Not just you at all!

LEDs, HIDs and high level brake lights are all to bright.

Also it ought to be compulsory for a regular (10 minute intervals?)
warning to be sounded in the car when the high intensity fog lights
are switched on. I hate driving on the day after a foggy day as so
many people leave them on.

I don't recall a day in the last five years where fog lights were
actually a benefit.

That Alzheimer's is a bugger.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk