David Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:11:14 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Adam
Aglionby wrote this:-

Glad you mentioned that, Dalgety Bay, radium contamination from
aircarft dial manufactu

http://www.sepa.org.uk/radioactive_substances/publications/dalgety_bay_reports.aspx
has some more up to date reports.

Not regarded a major risk in that quantity

It is a while since I read some of the information. However, from
memory there would be a visible "burn", a red patch the skin, if an
adult was to hold some of the found particles against their skin for
around 15 minutes. In other words fairly "hot" and obviously much
more radioactive than a luminous watch.


The major risk is ingestion, which would expose people to the
particle for a long time. Adults are unlikely to be exposed to major
risk, but children could be. Children eat sand sometimes.


Then they deserve all the worms they get.


I assume you have never BEEN to the beach at Dounreay. I am not
surprised, No one else has either. I've been close. looked out over the
sea a bit further up the road. No reason to stay more than a couple of
minutes. Vile place.


There is no beach to speak of. There is no public access to the beach
such as it is.


The particles in question are heavy and wont be easily shifted by tidal
movement.

Dounreay in short represents no safety issues to the general public that
couldn't be solved by simply closing that stretch of shoreline.

It was a fast breeder reactor, set up to breed weapons grade ,material,
built to a lax 50;'s standard and badly managed thereafter.

It simply has no bearing on discussions about new nuclear. Its just
always dredged up by the anti - nuclear lobby as an example of things
that will go wrong. But its history. It bears about as much relevance as
citing boiler explosions in Stephensons rocket does to the safety issues
of a modern steam turbine.

Let's add in a few facts.

The DFR fast breeder reactor was a small one. Only 14MW. However it is
reckoned it did add 600GWh of generation, and reduction in carbon
concomitant with that. At today's wind turbine prices (10p a unit), that
represents £60M of generated power. Its main function was not power
generation though. It was breeding of nuclear materials and as a
research facility.


The PFR reactor at 250MW capacity ran for 20 years. at a putative 80%
load factor, and 10p a unit that's generated £3.5bn of carbon free power.

Th capital cost of a new nuclear set of comparable output would be less
than a billion.


That needs to be offset against the clean up costs. In any *rational*
argument.

I note with interest the coincidence of your name with

http://www.hansentransmissions.com/en/

who make windpower gearboxes.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:28:16 +0000 someone who may be John Rumm
wrote this:-

Back to the point however, it was not the general level of environmental
Hg I was particularly concerned about (neither are desirable) - more the
local levels following breakages etc.

I think that the "health & safety" lobby is going overboard on the
subject, the usual gold plating we see in the UK from people unable
to judge risks. Open a window if someone wants, but compared to
fillings it is a minor problem.

Opening a window is certainly good advice, however if you are not aware of
the requirement, and also are not able to dispose of any resulting liquid
spillage, then the vapour level threat remains the moment you shut the
window.

The only time a filling is going to represent a significant risk is to the
dentist preparing the amalgam. Once the mercury is chemically bound to
something else it poses far less risk. The main risk from liquid mercury
is exposure to mercury vapour (hence why dentists, labs, hospitals etc are
expected to have spillage control kits on hand).

In large numbers it is a different issue, but I very much doubt if
more than one is broken in a house at any one time. I have broken
one or two since the early 1980s (obviously the old glass jar ones
were harder to break, but the ones without a glass jar have been
around for as long in the form of the Thorn 2D).

Some CFLs come with rubber outer jackets these days, which makes breakages
less likely in the first place, and containment better.



--
Cheers,

John.


You used to be able to catch AIDs from mercury until 1991.

Adam

ARWadsworth
wibbled on Sunday 01 November 2009 19:40


You used to be able to catch AIDs from mercury until 1991.

Adam

Oohhh :-O

I nearly caught AIDS when I watched[1] The Village People doing "YMCA" on
Youtube...

[1] Childrens' request. Gave me a chance to explain what "gay" meant without
getting overly gross... "See that bloke with the big mustache and the
leather cap? Well...."

Had to watch this several times times to de-gay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw

Nearly made me join the Russian Army and I'm not even Russian...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W wrote:


Had to watch this several times times to de-gay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw

Nearly made me join the Russian Army and I'm not even Russian...


Looked like a very heavy duty version of that Berocca advert at the
beginning!

--
Rod

Rod
wibbled on Sunday 01 November 2009 20:50

Tim W wrote:


Had to watch this several times times to de-gay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw

Nearly made me join the Russian Army and I'm not even Russian...


Looked like a very heavy duty version of that Berocca advert at the
beginning!


Apparently the Lieutenant or whatever he is is actually a well known singer.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

Tim W wrote:
ARWadsworth
wibbled on Sunday 01 November 2009 19:40


You used to be able to catch AIDs from mercury until 1991.

Adam

Oohhh :-O

I nearly caught AIDS when I watched[1] The Village People doing "YMCA" on
Youtube...

[1] Childrens' request. Gave me a chance to explain what "gay" meant without
getting overly gross... "See that bloke with the big mustache and the
leather cap? Well...."

Had to watch this several times times to de-gay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw

Nearly made me join the Russian Army and I'm not even Russian...

http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:52:06 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:08:57 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Adam
Aglionby wrote this:-

Problems with French installations, there have been some,do know that
the European Presurised Reactors, EPR, under construction,France and
Finland are way over budget

And over time. I gather they have given up providing estimated
completion dates for the one in Finland.

It would probably have been more honest of us if we'd given up
providing estimated completion dates for most (all ?) of our large
engineering projects such as the M74 extension, and it's usually the
Greens who are the chief offenders although the trade unions also
rate. (Viz the Isle of Grain power station).

Derek

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:52:06 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:11:14 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Adam
Aglionby wrote this:-

Glad you mentioned that, Dalgety Bay, radium contamination from
aircarft dial manufactu

http://www.sepa.org.uk/radioactive_substances/publications/dalgety_bay_reports.aspx
has some more up to date reports.

Not regarded a major risk in that quantity

It is a while since I read some of the information. However, from
memory there would be a visible "burn", a red patch the skin, if an
adult was to hold some of the found particles against their skin for
around 15 minutes. In other words fairly "hot" and obviously much
more radioactive than a luminous watch.

An external radiation hazard of that magnitude on a public beach I
would find difficult to contemplate.

The major risk is ingestion, which would expose people to the
particle for a long time. Adults are unlikely to be exposed to major
risk, but children could be. Children eat sand sometimes.

Futile to do hypothetical sums. If you can tell us where it happened
we could investigate it, but radiation physicists are more commonly
concerned with amounts a million or so times less. What is normally
considered a hotspot is for instance where what otherwise would be a
low level discharge into the sea gets concentrated in sands and muds
which bind it like Fullers Earth.

Derek

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:51:56 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:28:16 +0000 someone who may be John Rumm
wrote this:-

Back to the point however, it was not the general level of environmental
Hg I was particularly concerned about (neither are desirable) - more the
local levels following breakages etc.

I think that the "health & safety" lobby is going overboard on the
subject, the usual gold plating we see in the UK

You imply the opposite where the topic is Nuclear Power.

from people unable
to judge risks. Open a window if someone wants, but compared to
fillings it is a minor problem.

In large numbers it is a different issue, but I very much doubt if
more than one is broken in a house at any one time. I have broken
one or two since the early 1980s (obviously the old glass jar ones
were harder to break, but the ones without a glass jar have been
around for as long in the form of the Thorn 2D).

Derek