Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'.
I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that I
didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case
it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just
wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room
I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES or
SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

"KD" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense



Sorry to reply to my own post but I've just spotted some info on the kulekat
website that seems to imply (a) the my current set up must use transformers
and (b) that keeping one LV halogen in the circuit should overcome the need
for LED drivers.
Think I'm going to give that a try.
I apologise if it's obvious that LV Halogens require a transformer. Up
until 4 hours ago I thought I had mains voltage lighting !

Cheers,
Keith

In article ,
"KD" writes:
Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'.
I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that I
didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV

You can assume there's one or more transformers.

halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be sure.

Yes.

I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case
it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just
wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room
I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Even if they did work, the problem you'll have is that the LEDs are
nowhere near as bright as your existing lamps (at least, not unless
you are spending vastly more than £30 for the whole room), and they
may also be a sickly blue shade, which is really bad in a kitchen.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
KD wrote:
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago.... I've just
had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10 halogen
downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10 CFLs.
One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them. These seem to be low voltage.

Low voltage (MR16) pull out: Mains (GU10) have to be turned slightly first.

This surprised me a bit; I had thought that only mains voltage lamps
were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'. I am obviously not an
electrican

Some truth in that some time back. If using ordinary transformers you
needed a special dimmer due to the inductive load. Early electronic
transformers couldn't be dimmed. But these days most dimmers are ok with
any load - and most electronic transformers can be dimmed.

Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'.

Depends what you mean by 'direct replacement' They may plug in but that's
about it. They won't give the same light quality or as much.

Then, in the small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV
transformers. Given that I didn't install the original halogens ... can
I assume that each one currently has it's own transformer ?

Maybe. Can be as many as four off one.

thick question alert - do LV halogens have to have transformers ?

They are LV - 12 volt - and mains is 240v. So have an educated guess. ;-)

I assume so but would like to be sure. I was thinking of simply swapping
them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case it works OK. Given John R's
reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just wondering if it's even worth
bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room I want to experiment
with and I don't want to have to install either transformers or drivers.
Worth a shot ?

Better to check what you do have. If you remove a fitting you can
sometimes fish the 'transformer' out of the hole. If it's shared, you
might have to try more than one. If it is an electronic type it may not
work with LEDs. If an older true transformer it will.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:54:22 +0100, "KD"
wrote:

Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs.

You might want to try one first, not only are they not as bright as
halogen they have poor colour and often far narrower beams than GU10
so you get pools of anaemic light just where you don't need them and
darkness where you do.

In article , KD
writes

I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

If it were me, I'd take out all the fittings and transformer(s), replace
with mains wiring, and fit GU10 fittings and LED bulbs (GU10 LED lamps
can be had for about a fiver each now).

But before doing so, buy a couple of GU10 fittings and lamps, do a
temporary lash-up and see if you're happy with the colour and the amount
of light (especially at night time).

Halogen GU10s tend to have quite a wide spread of light and the LED
versions have a narrower beam. This may not matter if the ceiling is
fairly high and they are bright enough for you.

Saw a toilet at Manchester airport fitted with GU10 LEDs. Although the
installers had tried to compensate for the poor light output by
installing a lot of them, the result was truly dismal; you could barely
see and the light was an offputting shade of blue.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , KD
writes

I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

If it were me, I'd take out all the fittings and transformer(s), replace
with mains wiring, and fit GU10 fittings and LED bulbs (GU10 LED lamps
can be had for about a fiver each now).

But before doing so, buy a couple of GU10 fittings and lamps, do a
temporary lash-up and see if you're happy with the colour and the amount
of light (especially at night time).

Halogen GU10s tend to have quite a wide spread of light and the LED
versions have a narrower beam. This may not matter if the ceiling is
fairly high and they are bright enough for you.

Saw a toilet at Manchester airport fitted with GU10 LEDs. Although the
installers had tried to compensate for the poor light output by
installing a lot of them, the result was truly dismal; you could barely
see and the light was an offputting shade of blue.



Blue lighting in public toilets is very common.

It stops the druggies finding the veins.

Adam

In article ,
ARWadsworth wrote:
Saw a toilet at Manchester airport fitted with GU10 LEDs. Although the
installers had tried to compensate for the poor light output by
installing a lot of them, the result was truly dismal; you could barely
see and the light was an offputting shade of blue.



Blue lighting in public toilets is very common.

It stops the druggies finding the veins.

And just how are you meant to fly Ryanair without a fix?

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
If it were me, I'd take out all the fittings and transformer(s), replace
with mains wiring, and fit GU10 fittings and LED bulbs (GU10 LED lamps
can be had for about a fiver each now).

I experimented with one mains LED - bought from Lidl. Blew up in a
spectacular fashion after a few months. Wasn't cheap, either.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 Oct, 17:54, "KD" wrote:
Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. *One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them..
These seem to be low voltage. *This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'.
I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. *A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. *Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. *Given that I
didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? *thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? *I assume so but would like to be sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case
it works OK. *Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just
wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room
I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. *Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES or
SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

If your looking to acheive energy savings that don`t cost more than
they save, domestic lighting is pretty low on the payback scale.

As you have already discovered LV Halogen has an excellent lifespan,
its sounds like first time you have ever had to attempt to change
lamps.
I have LV MR16s that are well past their 10th birthday , in daily use.
Be assured that you have the best light quality and efficiency
currently available for the application.

Afraid £30 is unlikely to buy anything LED sufficient to act as a
halogen replacement for a whole room.

GU10 in any form is a complete waste of time, money and resources.

Putting your computer to sleep when its idle will save more energy
than retrofitting lighting with this weeks fad.

Adam

I apologise if it's obvious that LV Halogens require a transformer. Up
until 4 hours ago I thought I had mains voltage lighting !

Cheers,
Keith


I've been keeping my eye on LED lighting for some time.

It seems that recently products have come available which are truly
comparable in terms of intensity with 20W halogen

This weekend I replaced the last of 11 GU10 20W Halogen lemps in my kitchen
with LED.

The lamps I used were from a supplier on eBay. Search for "48 SMD MR16" and
you'll find them. The LED's have no lenses and as such the lamps are not
very directional. IMO a good thing.

"Day White" looks terrible in a living room, but "Warm White" is OK (but a
little less bright) and still comparable with Halogen..

In my case I needed new transformers because the old could not deal with low
loads. I purchased http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTYT50.html and
they work fine. If you're experimentally just going to install 1 or 2 LED
lamps in a circuit that also has halogens then there should be no problem.

D

In article ,
Vortex4 wrote:
The lamps I used were from a supplier on eBay. Search for "48 SMD MR16"
and you'll find them. The LED's have no lenses and as such the lamps
are not very directional. IMO a good thing.

"Day White" looks terrible in a living room, but "Warm White" is OK (but
a little less bright) and still comparable with Halogen..

Perhaps I'm just picky, but quality of light in the home is still more
important to me than saving a few watt.hours of electricity. *And* the
cost and life of LEDs is still not comparable to LV halogen.

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"AA" wrote in message
...
On 3 Oct, 17:54, "KD" wrote:
Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'.
I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that I
didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case
it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just
wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the
room
I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install either
transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES
or
SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

If your looking to acheive energy savings that don`t cost more than
they save, domestic lighting is pretty low on the payback scale.

As you have already discovered LV Halogen has an excellent lifespan,
its sounds like first time you have ever had to attempt to change
lamps.
I have LV MR16s that are well past their 10th birthday , in daily use.
Be assured that you have the best light quality and efficiency
currently available for the application.

Afraid £30 is unlikely to buy anything LED sufficient to act as a
halogen replacement for a whole room.

GU10 in any form is a complete waste of time, money and resources.

Putting your computer to sleep when its idle will save more energy
than retrofitting lighting with this weeks fad.

Adam

----
Hi Adam,
You're correct about the life of the LV Halogens. In fact, none of them
have yet blown in 6+ years but that's because I we don't put them on a lot
For a while now I've wondered what the fittings were and then a Tesco
deal popped up for BOGOF on GU10 CFLs. So, I bought 2 and decided to try
them. I then discovered that they're not GU10 and destroyed one bulb in the
process.
I've started looking at Exergi LEDs but, as you said, realised that the
kitchen alone will be nearer £80 to experiment with. However, I am likely
to keep at least one 20W MR16 up there to help with any transformer
problems.
I'm going to hold off making the decision just yet and see if prices start
to dip on the Exergi bulbs.

Computer gets turned off whenever I'm not using it

Cheers,
Keith

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
KD wrote:
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago.... I've just
had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10 halogen
downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10 CFLs.
One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them. These seem to be low voltage.

Low voltage (MR16) pull out: Mains (GU10) have to be turned slightly
first.

This surprised me a bit; I had thought that only mains voltage lamps
were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'. I am obviously not an
electrican

Some truth in that some time back. If using ordinary transformers you
needed a special dimmer due to the inductive load. Early electronic
transformers couldn't be dimmed. But these days most dimmers are ok with
any load - and most electronic transformers can be dimmed.

Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'.

Depends what you mean by 'direct replacement' They may plug in but that's
about it. They won't give the same light quality or as much.

Then, in the small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV
transformers. Given that I didn't install the original halogens ... can
I assume that each one currently has it's own transformer ?

Maybe. Can be as many as four off one.

thick question alert - do LV halogens have to have transformers ?

They are LV - 12 volt - and mains is 240v. So have an educated guess. ;-)

I assume so but would like to be sure. I was thinking of simply swapping
them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case it works OK. Given John R's
reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just wondering if it's even worth
bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room I want to experiment
with and I don't want to have to install either transformers or drivers.
Worth a shot ?

Better to check what you do have. If you remove a fitting you can
sometimes fish the 'transformer' out of the hole. If it's shared, you
might have to try more than one. If it is an electronic type it may not
work with LEDs. If an older true transformer it will.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Thanks Dave,
I'm still undecided but all the help from this group means I can at least go
into it knowing enough to pre-empt any issues
In another post you mention the quality of light, which I agree is
important. However, I've become positively phobic about turning the
downlighters on in the house due to perceived cost but I know that's just me
being silly

Cheers,
Keith

In article ,
KD wrote:
I'm still undecided but all the help from this group means I can at
least go into it knowing enough to pre-empt any issues In another
post you mention the quality of light, which I agree is important.
However, I've become positively phobic about turning the downlighters
on in the house due to perceived cost but I know that's just me being
silly

Well, MR16 20w seem subjectively to give just about the same amount of
light as 50w ones. Or rather not a dramatic reduction. So 5 of those is
only the same as a 100w GLS bulb in running costs.
A neighbour commented on the 8 lighting my ground floor hallway - saying
it was nice but what about the running costs. She has two 100 watt pendant
lamps and was surprised to be told they cost more to run...

--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
KD wrote:
I'm still undecided but all the help from this group means I can at
least go into it knowing enough to pre-empt any issues In another
post you mention the quality of light, which I agree is important.
However, I've become positively phobic about turning the downlighters
on in the house due to perceived cost but I know that's just me being
silly

Well, MR16 20w seem subjectively to give just about the same amount of
light as 50w ones. Or rather not a dramatic reduction. So 5 of those is
only the same as a 100w GLS bulb in running costs.
A neighbour commented on the 8 lighting my ground floor hallway - saying
it was nice but what about the running costs. She has two 100 watt pendant
lamps and was surprised to be told they cost more to run...

--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi again Dave,
Thanks for the info about the 20W which I've coincidentally ordered 10 of
today, together with another 10 35W lights for good measure. It was before
I saw your post, honest
I might sprinkle a few of the cheaper LEDs (£10, gulp) in a bathroom where I
couldn't give a damn about the light levels; just to experiment.

Thanks once again,
Keith

"KD" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense


Hi all,
Just a follow up to my original post. I've discovered each of my
downlighters has it's own transformer. So much for using one halogen to up
the power that the transformer is required to deliver, this would only work
with multiple bulbs per transformer. However, a number of LEDs claim that
they can work with existing transformers, rather than LED drivers, but with
half the expected bulb life. So, I took the plunge ... I replaced 3 spots
upstairs directly with LEDs. The LEDs come on, look OK and don't flicker
..... however, my bedroom radio now suffers terrible interference. Now to
figure out how to stop that ....

Cheers,
Keith

On Oct 30, 11:48*am, "KD" wrote:
"KD" wrote in message

. uk...

Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10
CFLs. *One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in them.
These seem to be low voltage. *This surprised me a bit; I had thought that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. *A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. *Then, in the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. *Given that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? *thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? *I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case it works OK. *Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. *Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC, ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

Hi all,
Just a follow up to my original post. *I've discovered each of my
downlighters has it's own transformer. *So much for using one halogen to up
the power that the transformer is required to deliver, this would only work
with multiple bulbs per transformer. *However, a number of LEDs claim that
they can work with existing transformers, rather than LED drivers, but with
half the expected bulb life. *So, I took the plunge ... *I replaced 3 spots
upstairs directly with LEDs. *The LEDs come on, look OK and don't flicker
.... however, my bedroom radio now suffers terrible interference. *Now to
figure out how to stop that ....

Cheers,
Keith

0.1uF capacitor in series with 1 ohm resistor, fitted to the LV feed.
It'll work best near LED or transformer, try both to find out which.


NT

On Oct 6, 7:06*am, "KD" wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in ...



In article ,
* KD wrote:
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago.... I've just
had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU 10 halogen
downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some GU10 CFLs.
*One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them. These seem to be low voltage.

Low voltage (MR16) pull out: Mains (GU10) have to be turned slightly
first.

*This surprised me a bit; I had thought that only mains voltage lamps
were dimmable and that these were 'mains voltage'. I am obviously not an
electrican

Some truth in that some time back. If using ordinary transformers you
needed a special dimmer due to the inductive load. Early electronic
transformers couldn't be dimmed. But these days most dimmers are ok with
any load - and most electronic transformers can be dimmed.

Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. *A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'.

Depends what you mean by 'direct replacement' They may plug in but that's
about it. They won't give the same light quality or as much.

*Then, in the small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV
transformers. *Given that I didn't install the original halogens ... can
I assume that each one currently has it's own transformer ?

Maybe. Can be as many as four off one.

thick question alert - do LV halogens have to have transformers ?

They are LV *- 12 volt - and mains is 240v. So have an educated guess.. ;-)

I assume so but would like to be sure. I was thinking of simply swapping
them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in case it works OK. *Given John R's
reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm just wondering if it's even worth
bothering as it'll cost around £30 for the room I want to experiment
with and I don't want to have to install either transformers or drivers.
*Worth a shot ?

Better to check what you do have. If you remove a fitting you can
sometimes fish the 'transformer' out of the hole. If it's shared, you
might have to try more than one. If it is an electronic type it may not
work with LEDs. If an older true transformer it will.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

* *Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * *To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks Dave,
I'm still undecided but all the help from this group means I can at least go
into it knowing enough to pre-empt any issues
In another post you mention the quality of light, which I agree is
important. *However, I've become positively phobic about turning the
downlighters on in the house due to perceived cost but I know that's just me
being silly

Cheers,
Keith

if you want to save money/energy you'd do better to fit concealed
fluorescnt uplighting, and change the halogen bulbs for 5 watters.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...scent_Lighting


NT

On Oct 3, 5:29*pm, "KD" wrote:
"KD" wrote in message

I apologise if it's obvious that LV Halogens require a transformer. *Up
until 4 hours ago I thought I had mains voltage lighting !

Cheers,
Keith

They do. You could run them direct off mains, and the energy
efficiency would go way up... but the life expectancy would be very
very very short.


NT

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Oct 30, 11:48 am, "KD" wrote:
"KD" wrote in message

. uk...

Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU
10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some
GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought
that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in
the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC,
ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

Hi all,
Just a follow up to my original post. I've discovered each of my
downlighters has it's own transformer. So much for using one halogen to up
the power that the transformer is required to deliver, this would only
work
with multiple bulbs per transformer. However, a number of LEDs claim that
they can work with existing transformers, rather than LED drivers, but
with
half the expected bulb life. So, I took the plunge ... I replaced 3 spots
upstairs directly with LEDs. The LEDs come on, look OK and don't flicker
.... however, my bedroom radio now suffers terrible interference. Now to
figure out how to stop that ....

Cheers,
Keith

0.1uF capacitor in series with 1 ohm resistor, fitted to the LV feed.
It'll work best near LED or transformer, try both to find out which.


NT

Thanks NT,
You may have realised by now that me and electrics don't really do together
too well. So, when capacitors and resistors get mentioned my eyes glaze
over. Your advice is much appreciated but it's going beyond the level of
simplicity I was naively trying to achieve.
Would it make a difference if I swapped out the original transformers for
some of the 12V DV drivers instead ? I don't really fancy rigging up the
arrangement you mentioned myself - I'm sure I'd end up doing something else
odd

Cheers,
Keith

On Oct 30, 5:38*pm, "KD" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On Oct 30, 11:48 am, "KD" wrote:



"KD" wrote in message

.uk...

Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a GU
10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some
GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought
that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in
the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just in
case it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30 for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC,
ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

Hi all,
Just a follow up to my original post. I've discovered each of my
downlighters has it's own transformer. So much for using one halogen to up
the power that the transformer is required to deliver, this would only
work
with multiple bulbs per transformer. However, a number of LEDs claim that
they can work with existing transformers, rather than LED drivers, but
with
half the expected bulb life. So, I took the plunge ... I replaced 3 spots
upstairs directly with LEDs. The LEDs come on, look OK and don't flicker
.... however, my bedroom radio now suffers terrible interference. Now to
figure out how to stop that ....

Cheers,
Keith

0.1uF capacitor in series with 1 ohm resistor, fitted to the LV feed.
It'll work best near LED or transformer, try both to find out which.

NT

Thanks NT,
You may have realised by now that me and electrics don't really do together
too well. *So, when capacitors and resistors get mentioned my eyes glaze
over. *Your advice is much appreciated but it's going beyond the level of
simplicity I was naively trying to achieve.
Would it make a difference if I swapped out the original transformers for
some of the 12V DV drivers instead ?

Should do. But a 0.1uF capacitor and a 1 ohm resistor is far simpler,
and you can get them at any electronic component supplier, or any shop
that does repairs.

LV red wire -----resistor----capacitor----LV black wire.

Simple as that.


*I don't really fancy rigging up the
arrangement you mentioned myself - I'm sure I'd end up doing something else
odd

Cheers,
Keith

NT

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Oct 30, 5:38 pm, "KD" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On Oct 30, 11:48 am, "KD" wrote:



"KD" wrote in message

.uk...

Hi all,
A question in a similar area to Boicey's a few mintues ago....
I've just had a fun hour trying to figure out how to easily remove a
GU
10
halogen downlighter from our kitchen ceiling after having bought some
GU10
CFLs. One set of needle nosed pliers and a smashed up bulb later, I've
realised that they're 'MR16 GU 5.3 fittings' with Osram Decostars in
them.
These seem to be low voltage. This surprised me a bit; I had thought
that
only mains voltage lamps were dimmable and that these were 'mains
voltage'. I am obviously not an electrican
Anyway, I'd like to replace them with LEDs. A lot of LED MR16s say
that
they're 'a direct replacement for my old inefficient bulbs'. Then, in
the
small print, they mention LED drivers versus LV transformers. Given
that
I didn't install the original halogens ... can I assume that each one
currently has it's own transformer ? thick question alert - do LV
halogens have to have transformers ? I assume so but would like to be
sure.
I was thinking of simply swapping them with some LED MR16 bulbs just
in
case it works OK. Given John R's reply to the Econic 3w question, I'm
just wondering if it's even worth bothering as it'll cost around £30
for
the room I want to experiment with and I don't want to have to install
either transformers or drivers. Worth a shot ?

Thanks in advance,
Keith, who previous struggled remembering which fittings were BC, SBC,
ES
or SES, never mind this new fangled halogen nonsense

Hi all,
Just a follow up to my original post. I've discovered each of my
downlighters has it's own transformer. So much for using one halogen to
up
the power that the transformer is required to deliver, this would only
work
with multiple bulbs per transformer. However, a number of LEDs claim
that
they can work with existing transformers, rather than LED drivers, but
with
half the expected bulb life. So, I took the plunge ... I replaced 3
spots
upstairs directly with LEDs. The LEDs come on, look OK and don't flicker
.... however, my bedroom radio now suffers terrible interference. Now to
figure out how to stop that ....

Cheers,
Keith

0.1uF capacitor in series with 1 ohm resistor, fitted to the LV feed.
It'll work best near LED or transformer, try both to find out which.

NT

Thanks NT,
You may have realised by now that me and electrics don't really do
together
too well. So, when capacitors and resistors get mentioned my eyes glaze
over. Your advice is much appreciated but it's going beyond the level of
simplicity I was naively trying to achieve.
Would it make a difference if I swapped out the original transformers for
some of the 12V DV drivers instead ?

Should do. But a 0.1uF capacitor and a 1 ohm resistor is far simpler,
and you can get them at any electronic component supplier, or any shop
that does repairs.

LV red wire -----resistor----capacitor----LV black wire.

Simple as that.


I don't really fancy rigging up the
arrangement you mentioned myself - I'm sure I'd end up doing something
else
odd

Cheers,
Keith

NT

Hi again NT,
I suppose an "I told you so" might be in order as I didn't follow your
instructions ... I've just replaced the AC 12V transformers with 12V DC
'drivers'. The radio reception is still knackered.
I'm going to approach the manufacturer about this now ....
I could try your suggestion but it'll be while before I get round to it. Is
it likely to have more success than the drivers ? Is there something about
LED technology that can cause this interference regardless of the power
supply ? It even takes out a DAB radio on the other side of the house and
downstairs !

Ho hum,
Cheers,
Keith